View Full Version : The Decca Blue
Recently I was lucky enough to acquire a Decca Blue cartridge which after being checked over by John Wright was assessed as being virtually new and unplayed, a rare find indeed. This was also one of the last London cartridges with the Parmico coils which were manufactured by Decca before the slightly inferior coils were fitted to all the came after. It came with original box and mounting screws and 3 pin bracket and has been waiting for a few weeks to be installed after initially having it looked over. There was some minor attention required due to ageing of a substance in the cartridge was duly replaced.
Much has been written about the Decca cartridge and there are a lot of myths out there surrounding its use and set up but I can tell you it was easy to install as an At95e! I used the original mounting and 3 pin connector leaving off the green earth wire and tucked the 4th blue wire inside the headshell - sort of! Switched on the Croft and......nothing not a buzz, hum or fizz of any sort, deathly quiet. I wondered if I had indeed connected it up however the first needle drop confirmed obviously the Croft and Decca were a match made in heaven.
I was also lucky the VPI turntable is superbly grounded and has a unipivot damped tonearm as indeed the Decca throws out some energy! One slight bodge to the installation was a lump of blueback between the top of the tin can lid and the tonearm headshell which serves two fold. First I needed a little more mass as i wanted to track at 1.7-1.8g and my counterweight was adjusted right up against the pivot of the tonearm. Secondly the blue tac helps damp the lid and cartridge body in general. I used this arrangement 30 years ago and it proved perfect although aesthetically a bit un tidy.
This blue has a conical tip rather than elliptical which I viewed under the microscope - perfect! Internals looked new and the outer body tin can had just a bit of paint missing - what do you expect after 30+ years.
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1366_zps6y8q3sb8.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1366_zps6y8q3sb8.jpg.html)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1373_zpsytkaxarh.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1373_zpsytkaxarh.jpg.html)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1377_zps5nlqj95b.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1377_zps5nlqj95b.jpg.html)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1381_zpsezra8rkq.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1381_zpsezra8rkq.jpg.html)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1387_zpsthqdpwwi.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1387_zpsthqdpwwi.jpg.html)
The cartridge has only been fitted for a day or so and is running in slightly but everything that has been written about the Decca,s sound is true. It is an immediate, live and an exciting sound. I have had no tracking issues what so ever and it has displayed no sibilance or edginess. Nothing has challenged it to fall over into the realms of miss tracking hell even London Grammar 45rpm bass cut deep.
I will write further and much more fully once I have been through enough material to fully evaluate it however I will just say one thing.
30 years ago I had a Decca Blue / Croft set up with a Garrard 301 and I was using my Spendor SP2's then. I find it hard to believe all these years later I have gone round in a massive circle to end up with the same system, apart from the turntable:doh: It was listening to a Decca at my friends in London 3 years ago that convinced me to get back into vinyl and I am more than happy I have done that and I have been on quite a journey with the great help of a lot of you folk on AOS.
Now back to the music and as I said I will write further on the Sound Quality and musical abilities of this fabled cartridge once i have ploughed through a few more piles of vinyl.:)
Great find then Jim. Not heard a decca for years and never owned one
couldnt say how they sound. looks good on that arm
Thats a fabulous photo of the cartridge head James, must be some camera that ! Yes, I know what you mean about the decca sound . j.w has
just upgraded my decca gold to an extended line contact ( which in effect makes it a super gold ,I think} giving even more clarity, detail
and sweetness How does it sound compared to the lenco btw if your using the decca on another t/t
topoxforddoc
28-07-2016, 20:43
Welcome back to the Decca club. I'm delighted that you have fallen in love with them again. I never stopped using one, ever since I first heard one back in about 1979. JW will keep yours going for a very long time - and his work is very reasonably priced with a fast turnaround.
Charlie
Welcome back to the Decca club. I'm delighted that you have fallen in love with them again. I never stopped using one, ever since I first heard one back in about 1979. JW will keep yours going for a very long time - and his work is very reasonably priced with a fast turnaround.
Charlie
He lives just 20 mins from my house so lucky to be able to pop in if I need too. When the time comes I might get a fancier tip!
Thats a fabulous photo of the cartridge head James, must be some camera that ! Yes, I know what you mean about the decca sound . j.w has
just upgraded my decca gold to an extended line contact ( which in effect makes it a super gold ,I think} giving even more clarity, detail
and sweetness How does it sound compared to the lenco btw if your using the decca on another t/t
The Lenco has more drive and low down power but the Decca on the VPI is a very good match, not sure if the Decca would get on too well with the original Lenco tonearm?
My first Decca was a blue. A bit 'twangy' in the system I then had, but the supremely positive memory of it stayed with me. These were supposed to be tracked at 3g, but mine was fine at half that, as Golds (and Maroons?) are. Wonderful if raw sound, but please be very careful with it :)
walpurgis
28-07-2016, 22:10
There a vitality about the Blue that none of the other Mk.V London Deccas have matched in my view. It comes closer to the punchy Mk.IV sound to me. Don't get me wrong, the other Londons are very nice too. Just more 'polite'. :)
Excellent review Jim.
You were lucky to find a 'good sample' of a Mk. V; the unit-to-unit quality control was pretty poor. I have had four Mk.Vs, of which I now only have two, along with a Mk. III, Mk IV and a Mk. VI (also known as a Decca 'Gold').
There is indeed something magical about a well set up Decca operating under optimum conditions; the latter being sometimes difficult to achieve. Again you were lucky to have been able to set up yours so easily. You might be interested to read of my experiences with the Mk.VI: http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/23/07/2010/the-decca-mk-vi-gold-cartridge/. (I ought to add that problems I had with loading capacitance disappeared when I changed preamp.)
I love my Deccas so much that I always have one set up on a second deck. Although they are not perfect, they can do things that other cartridge cannot. Everyone should listen to a Decca at least once in their lifetime.
There a vitality about the Blue that none of the other Mk.V London Deccas have matched in my view. It comes closer to the punchy Mk.IV sound to me. Don't get me wrong, the other Londons are very nice too. Just more 'polite'. :)
Might be something to do with the coils in the Blue which after consulting with John Wright were manufactured by Decca. Later models of the cartridge had coils which were manufactured by another company who could never achieve the same quality.
Excellent review Jim.
You were lucky to find a 'good sample' of a Mk. V; the unit-to-unit quality control was pretty poor. I have had four Mk.Vs, of which I now only have two, along with a Mk. III, Mk IV and a Mk. VI (also known as a Decca 'Gold').
There is indeed something magical about a well set up Decca operating under optimum conditions; the latter being sometimes difficult to achieve. Again you were lucky to have been able to set up yours so easily. You might be interested to read of my experiences with the Mk.VI: http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/23/07/2010/the-decca-mk-vi-gold-cartridge/. (I ought to add that problems I had with loading capacitance disappeared when I changed preamp.)
I love my Deccas so much that I always have one set up on a second deck. Although they are not perfect, they can do things that other cartridge cannot. Everyone should listen to a Decca at least once in their lifetime.
Thanks Barry. This was an old itch I just had to scratch and it did contain some elements of risk as the Decca does not work well with all tonearms. The VPI 9t is both damped internally and a unipivot so I had a good start although I was a bit anxious about the electrical connections and associated problems with hum etc. This proved to be not a problem so I was lucky.
I totally agree, the Decca is a cartridge everyone should hear in their lifetime as indeed it has some dynamic qualities which are astonishing and cannot be matched by any other cartridge.
I was listening to some jazz very late last night (Ellingtons Big4) which is a fabulous analogue recording and on one track there is some wild percussion which just made my jaw drop. It was breathtaking in its dynamic impact, I was left speechless! I have never heard any other cartridge manage to deliver this type of attack and realism.
topoxforddoc
29-07-2016, 07:41
Apart from percussion i.e. drum kit, you will also find piano a revelation with a Decca. The piano is, of course, technically a form of percussion instrument, as hammers hit the strings.
hifi_dave
29-07-2016, 09:27
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t406/hifi_dave/007.jpg
A couple of mine.
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t406/hifi_dave/007.jpg
A couple of mine.y
Have you got any Decapods for sale Dave?
hifi_dave
29-07-2016, 09:50
No, sorry. These are the superior 'Pods' made by Tom Fletcher, back in the day when we were selling Deccas by the dozen..:wheniwasaboy:
Firebottle
29-07-2016, 11:33
Looking forward to hearing it James :D
Looking forward to hearing it James :D
It will be on when you pop round later in the year mate.
Yes, I was listening to swan lake the other day and the clarity and dynamics were just awesome through my rock elite/ technoarm/ decca cart.
Really makes the drama of music shine through in a stunning manner. Enjoy James
flapland
29-07-2016, 15:42
This is a scratch I will certainly have to itch one day. I assume with a SME V I would have to use the silicone trough or would it be fine without.
This is scratch I will certainly have to itch one day. I assume with a SME V I would have to use the silicone trough or would it be fine without.
Try it with and without. The use of a damped arm is so the excess energy from the Decca cartridge, ducted down the arm can be absorbed before it encounters the tonearm bearings. However the bearings on the SME are likely to be sufficiently good so that this excess energy can be transmitted through the bearings without reflection and be absorbed by the mass of the TT chassis.
Yes, I was listening to swan lake the other day and the clarity and dynamics were just awesome through my rock elite/ technoarm/ decca cart.
Really makes the drama of music shine through in a stunning manner. Enjoy James
Can,t get my head around the clarity and detail the Decca retrieves even though it only has a conical stylus tip. There is more information and presence in recordings than my 2M Black with its Shibata tip!
Vocals and acoustic instruments have such a magical tone and fullness to them. As I am listening to recordings i know really well I still find hard to believe this is a 40 year old cartridge sounding like it was developed today for all its ability and dynamic qualities. I really wonder if we have progressed much at all with cartridge design?
Probably progressed a bit I suppose but there the ones you have to pay an arm and a leg for I should imagine. The decca s seem very good value by comparison.
I must admit I bought the Decca out of both a rose tinted view of my very young days when I first played vinyl on a serious system and also out of curiosity as to how good they actually were considering the experiences I have had with other cartridges since I first had a Blue more than 30 years ago.
I have detailed the set up and installation and as I mentioned there were no issues what so ever but what I had not reckoned on was the ability of the Decca to play vinyl without mishap both in tracking or handling extreme frequencies and complex material. My fears were totally unfounded, the Decca has sailed through everything I could throw at it without any problems. It has not mis tracked once although I was quite pain staking in my initial set up, dialling in all the parameters as best as I could.
I even phoned John Wright yesterday to ensure best practise and he suggested a 2g tracking weight and to use a level tonearm. Surprisingly he was also ok with my primitive idea of using a lump of blue tack on the tin lid of the cartridge to both reduce resonance and add a touch more mass.
So to the sound! The one thing I was actually most surprised with was how clean and smooth the sound was but with absolute clarity. Forget about fancy stylus profiles, this conical tip delivered detail and information about the recording not even my 2M black could reach. Areas of particular note were acoustic information around performers and instruments and the tone and texture of instruments from drums to guitars the Decca gave you a tonal texture that is superb.
Vocals are another level, the life like in the room with you quality is fabulous. This highlights the general nature of the Decca in that it is quite dominant in the midrange and accentuates material recorded in this area. The clarity and solidity of instruments and vocals is stunning and when there is power behind either the dynamic force of the Decca is something to behold!
I played an old favourite , Rodrigo and Gabriela, and the sound from the guitars in some points was breathtaking in both power, dynamics, tone and realism. I have never heard the Decca bettered in this respect. This cartridge makes even the best digital sound a bit tame and flat!
Jazz is simply wonderful. Because of the impactful way the Decca delivers it makes most recordings sound live and you get the weight of the instruments but also a realism that can make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. I stood up a few times and shouted at the stereo in disbelief.
Now I could go on and on about the superb abilities of this cartridge but I do have a couple of caveats. Firstly the sound stage was a bit small although depth was fantastic. Secondly it's a bit like driving a very high powered balls out racing car, you are so tempted to wack it up and get the thrills but this may be a bit too much all the time so it may not be a cartridge for everyone.
But if you ever want to hear your vinyl delivered in a way that has maximum dynamics and excitement then you must try a Decca. There are plenty around but do just get it sorted by John Wright first. He will road test it for you!:)
Wakefield Turntables
30-07-2016, 09:33
James you bloody rotter! :D:D:D I've been playing around with getting my DECCA kit sorted out for some time I have a II cartridge and tonearm. I was thinking that maybe the ARCHE SRA headshell and later DECCA carts could really fetch my valve system up another level:stalks:.
James you bloody rotter! :D:D:D I've been playing around with getting my DECCA kit sorted out for some time I have a II cartridge and tonearm. I was thinking that maybe the ARCHE SRA headshell and later DECCA carts could really fetch my valve system up another level:stalks:.
I don't have any experience of the earlier Decca cartridges but certainly the MK V will take your system to another level. GC thought this was the best cartridge Decca produced. Go for it Andy, they are stunningly good at what they do!
Wakefield Turntables
30-07-2016, 09:55
Yeah I've been looking around for a good example of the later DECCA cart the II was picked up as part of a job lot. Excellent write up by the way.
walpurgis
30-07-2016, 10:15
Mk.III ain't bad either. I can't hear a difference between the Mk.III and Mk.IV myself. Although I don't currently have a Mk.IV handy. Had them though and plenty of Londons.
http://i64.tinypic.com/2hydsa1.jpg
flapland
30-07-2016, 15:16
Try it with and without. The use of a damped arm is so the excess energy from the Decca cartridge, ducted down the arm can be absorbed before it encounters the tonearm bearings. However the bearings on the SME are likely to be sufficiently good so that this excess energy can be transmitted through the bearings without reflection and be absorbed by the mass of the TT chassis.
Thanks Barry, thats actually most useful and makes sense. I prefer not to have to get involved with silicon if I can help it as it will be a bugger to clean out.
Firebottle
30-07-2016, 16:20
I stood up a few times and shouted at the stereo in disbelief.
Absolutely love it James ;)
Having heard your system it gives me goose bumps just imagining what a fantastic sonic stage you have before you.
+2 great write up.
:)
Absolutely love it James ;)
Having heard your system it gives me goose bumps just imagining what a fantastic sonic stage you have before you.
+2 great write up.
:)
Just playing some Keb Mo, honestly it is sonic nirvana. Doesn't get better than this!
Apart from percussion i.e. drum kit, you will also find piano a revelation with a Decca. The piano is, of course, technically a form of percussion instrument, as hammers hit the strings.
Have listened to a fair bit of piano today Charlie and the Decca certainly conveys the weight and fullness of the piano with a speed and realism I have not heard before. Just been playing some steel string blues and the detail and dynamics flying off the guitar strings is wonderful. I have heard some of these albums many times with all types of cartridges but the Decca is more realistic and live than anything I have heard before.
topoxforddoc
30-07-2016, 20:11
Jim,
The piano is one the most difficult instruments to reproduce well on a record player set up. Not only do you have the issue of reproducing the percussive action of the hammers on the strings, but any speed variation can be ruthlessly exposed. I hardly listen to MC cartridges any more - I have 2 tonearms and carts on my Platine Verdier. The Schroeder Model 2/Allaerts MC1B hardly gets a look in.
Jim,
The piano is one the most difficult instruments to reproduce well on a record player set up. Not only do you have the issue of reproducing the percussive action of the hammers on the strings, but any speed variation can be ruthlessly exposed. I hardly listen to MC cartridges any more - I have 2 tonearms and carts on my Platine Verdier. The Schroeder Model 2/Allaerts MC1B hardly gets a look in.
The precision and clarity from the Decca has made my other cartridges sound almost blurred in their delivery. This cartridge digs out stuff and plays vinyl with such vitality, very addictive. Piano has definitely improved especially as I am using a belt drive TT where it accentuates any deviation at the front end.
Alan wait till you hear Hannah's voice (London Grammar) with the Decca!
topoxforddoc
30-07-2016, 20:50
Alan wait till you hear Hannah's voice (London Grammar) with the Decca!
Don;t worry I already have. I bought the LP on release. I listened to it with my C4E :)
After a weekend listening to the Decca I can only think this is one stunning cartridge. Album after album has thrown up new information that just wasn't there with any other cartridge I have used. It seems to illuminate the performance with a power and insight which I find remarkable.
Feed it some great audiophile stuff and it is just pure heaven. Even my partner Helen has been taken aback by its ability to perform magic with vocals. This cartridge makes you feel like you have just listened to the record from new on some occasions such is it's uncanny rendering of information retrieved. You have to shake your head.
I have one or two choice tracks which sound great on many types of cartridges, one in particular is 13 question method off Ry Cooders album get rhythm. The Decca Blue totally masters this track with such power and dynamic force it feels like the performance is being played live through your very own speakers.
When I was young I understood what audiophile music and stereo systems were as I was lucky to hear many and I soon learnt all the qualities great equipment could do regarding transparency, tonal colour, 3D imaging etc. I think I have always been pursing that ultimate live visceral feeling that makes your eyes open wide with total believability which makes you buzz. This is how the Decca delivers music to your ears, not on every recording but on many recordings I have listened too this weekend.
For me I find it hard to think it could better than this!
walpurgis
31-07-2016, 19:48
I'm a Decca fan, but a ZYX R100 H2 might provide rather a surprise.
topoxforddoc
31-07-2016, 19:49
James,
Now you understand that it's all about the music and not the gear! If you listen to a lot of live music of any genre, or if you play an instrument, you know all about the immediacy of the sound. That's what a Decca does best. I don't use my expensive MC cartridge much nowadays :)
James,
Now you understand that it's all about the music and not the gear! If you listen to a lot of live music of any genre, or if you play an instrument, you know all about the immediacy of the sound. That's what a Decca does best. I don't use my expensive MC cartridge much nowadays :)
Totally agree Charlie, it is this live immediate sound that gives so much material I have played realism. Don't think there are an MC cartridges out there that have the balls of a Decca!:)
I'm a Decca fan, but a ZYX R100 H2 might provide rather a surprise.
Would certainly like to hear one, one day if you think it's that good Geoff.
walpurgis
31-07-2016, 20:12
Would certainly like to hear one, one day if you think it's that good Geoff.
I sold my Decca Londons after buying one. Still got my Mk.III's though :).
I sold my Decca Londons after buying one. Still got my Mk.III's though :).
How does the mkIII compare to the MK V? Are the MKIII moving iron type as well?
walpurgis
31-07-2016, 21:28
The Mk.I to Mk.IV share a similar build to an extent. They are bulkier than the Mk.V, but use the same operating principles. To my mind, the Mk.III and Mk.IV have a more full bodied sound to the Mk.V, but that's just my opinion. They are all of moving iron or moving armature type.
Welcome back to the Decca club. I'm delighted that you have fallen in love with them again. I never stopped using one, ever since I first heard one back in about 1979. JW will keep yours going for a very long time - and his work is very reasonably priced with a fast turnaround.
Charlie
Just a though for the future, any suggestions on which tip to have when I eventually replace it as JW can fit quite a number of alternatives including line contact?
Yes, just had my worn out gold ( elliptical) changed to a line contact. J.w seems to recommend this stylus and charges the same price as the E stylus.
Its the one used in the super gold and jubilee I believe. Its tracks beautifully, less twanging and edgy than the gold ( though that was still very good)
sounds a bit sweeter with more detail, clarity etc. Vocals are particularly stunning in this area, and as for solo violin and orchestral climaxes ,wow !!
Somebody did say they found the L contact stylus a bit thin and preferred the paratracer stylus, depends on personal taste I suppose. I think they all
give the decca trademark sound of vocal, instrumental realism. Enjoy
Wakefield Turntables
02-08-2016, 07:19
Looks like I'm finally going to enter the DECCA club. I have a II ready to post for repair and I managed to snag a DECCA to SME converter for my 3012. :eek:
Looks like I'm finally going to enter the DECCA club. I have a II ready to post for repair and I managed to snag a DECCA to SME converter for my 3012. :eek:
Great Andrew, not sure what the Decca II sounds like but I am sure Geoff can let us know?
Wakefield Turntables
02-08-2016, 07:40
Well I'm not sure either!!!!! It needs a complete overhaul, so this is probably going to take a few weeks. Will probably go for whatever JW recommends. Using the II on the 3012 is probably not the best option but needs must for the time being.
Is the 3012 a damped unipivot?
hifi_dave
02-08-2016, 08:58
No, it's not. Bearings and knife edge.
I have used my Mk. III (+ SME adapter) on an SME 3012 fitted with the FD200 damping dasphpot. It worked very well. In my opinion, all Deccas (well up to the Mk. VI at least) prefer some form of damping when used in SME 3000 series arms.
Apropos which stylus type to fit - why not try the Microscanner?
I have used my Mk. III (+ SME adapter) on an SME 3012 fitted with the FD200 damping dasphpot. It worked very well. In my opinion, all Deccas (well up to the Mk. VI at least) prefer some form of damping when used in SME 3000 series arms.
Apropos which stylus type to fit - why not try the Microscanner?
How does the micro scanner differ from a line contact? Is this profile available from JW ?
How does the micro scanner differ from a line contact? Is this profile available from JW ?
Yes, I believe the microscanner has a line contact profile: there are several 'line contact' profiles available, each with a different marketing name (Van den Hul, Weintz, Primanik, Replicant, Fritz Gyger etc.)
Again I believe the microscanner stylus is available from John Wright. Perhaps others can verify this.
Think I will have it re tipped with line contact when time comes for replacement.
Heaven knows how this will sound? In the meantime I will be enjoying the basic conical tip which I have written a word or two about!
I have noticed the Decca is super accurate in its presentation of vocal material to the point where not only are vocal details of the voice fleshed out to a greater degree than any cartridge I have heard, the vocal content ie clarity of the lyrics being sung is much easier to follow. The Decca clearly exposes the words that are articulated where other cartridges sometimes leave you thinking what did she say? In the past lyrics have on some albums sounded mumbled where as the Decca sharpens them up to a huge degree. I can now appreciate where the term cantilever haze comes from when referring to all other cartridges that do not positively scan.
However its not all perfect as the Decca does this at the slight expense of some background information that can be slightly less illuminated.
On certain material it is certainly the ultimate weapon of choice if you want to experience live dynamics and power. The more I listen the more I understand the true character and capabilities of this fantastic cartridge.
May pop this on to give head shell bit more mass. The Decca is a bit lightweight and although I will keep blue tac I think the added mass on the front end will help.
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image_zpsk6tga9o6.jpeg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image_zpsk6tga9o6.jpeg.html)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1382_zpsgfedbkfr.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1382_zpsgfedbkfr.jpg.html)
Will it best to pop it on headshell or between cartridge and headshell?
Yes, when I placed the townshend metal paddle on my decca cart there was really a big improvement. However when used
with the trough there was no extra sonic gains to my ears. So it may be just the added weight that makes the difference.
Well worth trying, not sure which way round would be best though. good luck.
Decided to not use the headshell weight as the Decca lost a bit of air and ambience. Going to stick with blue tac and leave the counterweight bang up against the tonearm pillar.
The set up at the moment is truly excellent with the cartridge revealing detail and information in the recording I never knew existed.
You would swear you had just fitted a £2000 MC cartridge and upgraded your whole system- bizarre!:scratch:
Anyone worried about tracking issues with the Decca need not be concerned. I have had no issues at all with any LP right up to the inner groove.
I have read every review I can find on the net and I am surprised to read about the heaven and hell aspect of this cartridge.
It has been commented that it can track poorly and give issues with certain complex material. I can only conclude they were using either the wrong arm or they had not set it up correctly.
I played some big electronic material last night and it sailed through it! It was not quite as expansive as the 2M Black but it did a better job of the vocals.
narabdela
11-08-2016, 08:36
I can only conclude they were using either the wrong arm or they had not set it up correctly.
In a nutshell. :thumbsup:
Anyone worried about tracking issues with the Decca need not be concerned. I have had no issues at all with any LP right up to the inner groove.
I have read every review I can find on the net and I am surprised to read about the heaven and hell aspect of this cartridge.
It has been commented that it can track poorly and give issues with certain complex material. I can only conclude they were using either the wrong arm or they had not set it up correctly.
I played some big electronic material last night and it sailed through it! It was not quite as expansive as the 2M Black but it did a better job of the vocals.
Oh it's true - believe me.
The quality of workmanship displayed by Decca was poor to put it mildly (attrocious might be a more accurate description), and was so bad that Decca would screen the cartridges, the better samples (usually having higher compliance, or lower crosstalk etc.) were reserved for export. In the case of the Blue, the export version was the Grey. However sometimes even a 'standard' Blue can be very good - I know because in the past I have had a couple. But I have also had a dodgy sample.
The secret with any Decca is to be absolutely fastidious with the care during installation, being careful with the operating environment (electrical loading, dealing with the 3-wire arrangement and using a phonostage that has a sufficiently high overload figure), and not using too low a tracking force. With a spherical tip stylus cartridge, the Decca Blue is not too fussy about VTA.
Keep your records and stylus tip clean (after every side) and you should enjoy many months of 'Decca magic@
narabdela
14-08-2016, 17:49
I tend to think of Decca cartridges in the same way I think of Lowther loudspeakers. Both have foibles and deficiencies that not everyone is prepared to tolerate, but what they do have is an 'immediency' or 'presence' or whatever tf you want to call it that just cannot be matched by any other products.
True, but whereas I can readily tolerate the foibles of Decca cartridges, I can't tolerate for long those of Lowther speakers (or any horn speakers for that matter, though a few are more tolerable than others).
I can appreciate some of the limitations of the Decca cartridge but this goes for most cartridges, we all compromise in some area regardless of what piece of equipment we use.
However what this cartridge digs up from the grooves and they way it communicates that information to the listener is compulsive listening.
I do not intend the Decca to be the only cartridge I listen too but it is going to be difficult going back to anything else!
I would just like to point out that Decca cartridge ownship is a bit tricky. I don't want to put anyone off trying one as they are indeed one of the greatest cartridges ever made, however there are some aspects that need to taken into consideration.
First they are all getting on a bit now and apart from the new London cartridge built by John Wright. This means most will have seen quite a bit of use. :eek:
Secondly there was a huge variability in quality even in each model with some being very poorly built. This can dramatically affect SQ and tracking.
Thirdly there is a large variation in stylus profiles from conical through to a type of line contact which again determines SQ. I believe whichever colour you get Blue, Grey, Maroon or Gold they can all be re tipped with whichever stylus profile you wish.
There are some smaller details like the type of coils used which also affect SQ. From the research I have done I have been assured the Decca Blue is indeed the best of all the MK V Deccas built as long as you get a good one.:)
Lastly there is a crumb of comfort if you do acquire any of the Decca cartridges in any condition and that would be to have them rebuilt by John Wright who will put it back into great condition at a reasonable price as long as he had parts that are still available!
As you rightly say, owing to the atrocious and shoddy workmanship, there was enormous unit-to-unit variation in the quality of the cartridges made (especially the Mk. V and Mk. VI designs), to the extent that Decca would screen the output and select the best samples for export.
Thus for the Mk. V, the best samples were designated 'Grey' (or 'Export') and had the body painted grey, whereas the standard quality samples were reserved for the home market and were designated 'Blue' (and coloured such). The Greys tended to have slightly higher compliance and/or better crosstalk. For the Mk. VI, which was essentially the Mk. V but fitted with an elliptical stylus, the standard version was the 'Gold' and (I believe, but I'm not certain) the export version the 'Black'.
However there was also a Decca 'Maroon', essentially identical to the Mk. V (and also fitted with a spherical-tipped stylus), but made on a separate production line with much greater care and attention paid to the construction.
So, by rights, either the Decca 'Maroon' or the 'Grey' ought to be the best versions of the Mk. V. But that's not to say that either are any more reliable, and that some samples of the 'Blue' can be very good indeed.
I had a decca gold in the 80's which I mounted on a Formula IV arm and a BD1 turntable. I recognise the descriptions of the drama invoked by the cartridge, it sounded like nothing else at the time and was notably different to the SL15e I was using in the main system. However, I always felt a little bit as if it was right on the edge of it's "performance envelope" and might fall off at anytime...
That didn't make for comfortable long term listening for me and I abandoned it eventually. It must still be around somewhere, I don't remember ever selling it...
Wakefield Turntables
16-08-2016, 09:06
Barry, I've managed to bag a Maroon, your post has instilled confidence that I made the right choice buying it.
Barry, I've managed to bag a Maroon, your post has instilled confidence that I made the right choice buying it.
I would certainly send it off to John Wright to have it checked over Andy. I have his details if you want me to send them too you?
Ali Tait
16-08-2016, 09:45
Need to send mine off, I've had a Maroon for ages that's down in one channel.
Wakefield Turntables
16-08-2016, 10:19
I would certainly send it off to John Wright to have it checked over Andy. I have his details if you want me to send them too you?
Just spoken to him. Looks like it's a £330 bill for complete rebuild and a DECCApod.
Just spoken to him. Looks like it's a £330 bill for complete rebuild and a DECCApod.
It will be worth it. Are you having it re tipped? If you are go for the line contact - it will turn it into a killer Decca!;)
Wakefield Turntables
16-08-2016, 11:32
It will be worth it. Are you having it re tipped? If you are go for the line contact - it will turn it into a killer Decca!;)
I Told him to give me the best he had, so that must be the line contact.
I Told him to give me the best he had, so that must be the line contact.
Look forward to your first listen with that then! That will sound awesome on your 301.
Wakefield Turntables
18-08-2016, 20:44
17819
Maroon landed, now off on it's travels again!
topoxforddoc
18-08-2016, 21:06
17819
Maroon landed, now off on it's travels again!
She'll be a smasher when she returns from JW. Hope you enjoy her. I've had her since I was at school :)
As you rightly say, owing to the atrocious and shoddy workmanship, there was enormous unit-to-unit variation in the quality of the cartridges made (especially the Mk. V and Mk. VI designs), to the extent that Decca would screen the output and select the best samples for export.
Thus for the Mk. V, the best samples were designated 'Grey' (or 'Export') and had the body painted grey, whereas the standard quality samples were reserved for the home market and were designated 'Blue' (and coloured such). The Greys tended to have slightly higher compliance and/or better crosstalk. For the Mk. VI, which was essentially the Mk. V but fitted with an elliptical stylus, the standard version was the 'Gold' and (I believe, but I'm not certain) the export version the 'Black'.
However there was also a Decca 'Maroon', essentially identical to the Mk. V (and also fitted with a spherical-tipped stylus), but made on a separate production line with much greater care and attention paid to the construction.
So, by rights, either the Decca 'Maroon' or the 'Grey' ought to be the best versions of the Mk. V. But that's not to say that either are any more reliable, and that some samples of the 'Blue' can be very good indeed.
Interestingly I have found out the reason 'some' Blues are considered to be the best of the MK V cartridge and that was because they were manufactured with coils from the previous cartridge Decca manufactured which were considered to have the best SQ.
Interestingly I have found out the reason 'some' Blues are considered to be the best of the MK V cartridge and that was because they were manufactured with coils from the previous cartridge Decca manufactured which were considered to have the best SQ.
I haven't heard of that. Would the "previous cartridge" be the Mk. IV ? The Mk. IV also suffered wide sample-to-sample variation, with the better samples being selected and given the prefix 'S'.
I haven't heard of that. Would the "previous cartridge" be the Mk. IV ? The Mk. IV also suffered wide sample-to-sample variation, with the better samples being selected and given the prefix 'S'.
Yes, the MK IV.
Well its quite conceivable that Decca would use up the old stock of coils as used in the Mk. IV for use in the initial samples of the Mk. V.
Listened to London Grammar 'I Can't Wait 'album again last night and Hannah's vocals were utterly magical.
The way the Decca projects and plays vocals makes you feel every other cartridge you have listened too sounds broken!
What a mess this looks on the end of my tonearm but what an amazing sound it creates.
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image_zpslxk8cmyd.jpeg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image_zpslxk8cmyd.jpeg.html)http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image_zps6hncmkoq.jpeg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image_zps6hncmkoq.jpeg.html)
I wouldn’t worry too much about the looks – here are some of photos of ‘nuded’ Deccas (they look like something out of a Terry Gilliam film! :lol:) – it’s the performance that matters.
https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M2e84fa0c43a97d4a4c0846be19aba897o0&pid=15.1&H=118&W=160&P=0
https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Mc7628f3c99e1f8eb0524a443dd43cd78o0&pid=15.1&H=120&W=160&P=0
One question though – is the ‘blob’ of BluTac laying between the top of the cartridge body and the underside of the headshell, or is it between the top of the cartridge and the underside of the plastic cartridge bracket?
topoxforddoc
20-08-2016, 14:39
I wouldn’t worry too much about the looks – here are some of photos of ‘nuded’ Deccas (they look like something out of a Terry Gilliam film! :lol:) – it’s the performance that matters.
https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M2e84fa0c43a97d4a4c0846be19aba897o0&pid=15.1&H=118&W=160&P=0
https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Mc7628f3c99e1f8eb0524a443dd43cd78o0&pid=15.1&H=120&W=160&P=0
One question though – is the ‘blob’ of BluTac laying between the top of the cartridge body and the underside of the headshell, or is it between the top of the cartridge and the underside of the plastic cartridge bracket?
Barry,
I have occasionally added a blob of blutac before to my Deccas. It goes between the top of the tin lid cartridge busy and the headshell. If you put it between the red plastic bracket an the cartridge, you can prevent the cartridge seating properly in the bracket. If that happens, the 3 pins on the bracket may not connect fully with the contacts on the cartridge.
Charlie
The Blu tack is between cartridge and headshell as I did discover when I lost a channel that it did stop the cartridge sitting properly in the plastic bracket.
Had a tiny bit of mistracking last nite so added some anti skate, I was running it without any previously so looks like I can't get away without any.
Anti skate device on the VPI.
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image_zpsvj0rp4ne.jpeg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image_zpsvj0rp4ne.jpeg.html)
Listened to some Roger Waters 'It's a miracle' which has an awesome massive drum section towards the end of the track, the Decca reproduced this without any problem and even beat my 2M Black for control and tightness.
Next up Boris Blank and Malia 'Convergance' - The Decca captured the huge epic soundstage and beautifully controlled bass synths as well as fabulous rendering of Malias vocals.
Finally an old audiophile classic - Nora Jones 'Come away with me' - here the Decca totally transformed the recording. Not only were Nora's vocals totally nailed but with a clarity that allowed you to follow every word without straining to listen to the lyric. However the whole instrumental sections were much more vividly realised by the Decca where as they had previously melted a bit into the background.
This was a truly magical performance by the Decca.
Firebottle
21-08-2016, 11:31
STOP IT NOW. You are describing such audio nirvana that I can't wait to hear it :(
Very much looking forward to our newt (newt? where did that come from, the w isn't even close to the x. Mind I've had a couple of glasses so far :cool:) little bake off .
:)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xzYO0joolR0
STOP IT NOW. You are describing such audio nirvana that I can't wait to hear it :(
Very much looking forward to our newt (newt? where did that come from, the w isn't even close to the x. Mind I've had a couple of glasses so far :cool:) little bake off .
:)
:) sounds like you having nice afternoon in France. I only hope I don't wear it out before you get back:lol:
Looking forward to hearing those monoblocks!
:cool:
I added even more Blu tack last night and have a fair amount on the top of the cartridge but it does indeed damp the sound a little and I would say improves the bass. Removing the Blu tack gives a bit more of air to the sound but at the expense of a lightweight sound.
I can see where adding mass or indeed having a more substantial cartridge body would definitely benefit the Decca V. This is where the new JW London version of the cartridge probably benefits mainly plus it has a much better tip and is built with much greater care I presume.
Anyway I now have a Decca that is rock solid in performance with excellent tracking ability and no inner groove distortion. Anti skate certainly is needed here.
A few weeks on and after much listening I have now nailed what the Decca V can do and what it can't! It is a bit of a Chameleon in nature in that it can play along very nicely without sounding significantly different from a very good moving magnet cartridge but then it illuminates details and textures in the recording I did not know where there.
When fed with very good recording it then suddenly takes on another life and explodes the dynamic aspects with that live immediate thrilling sound. However I am missing a bit of detail and soundstage information which I think can only be resolved by using a better tip. I would describe a similarity with my Shure M55e where I have both the standard stylus and a Jico SAS stylus, the SAS just gives you more of the recorded information down to the finer detail.
I have decided after speaking with JW that the bits I am missing will be resolved if I have the Decca Blue re tipped with a line contact stylus.
One interesting thing I would note is that my 2M Black has some similarities to the Decca in that it gives you a live sound to recordings. The 2M has a bigger and slightly fuller sound stage and resolves small details better but I would say it bass is not as tight or controlled as the Decca.
Now here is the strange bit I can't get my head round. The Decca gives you so much more information and realism with vocals and acoustic instruments and yet some of the finer details in the recording are missing. On the one hand you get more detail but on the other you get less, a bit of a conundrum?:scratch:
Firebottle
27-08-2016, 06:30
Maybe the thread should be re-titled 'The Decca Conundrum', don't think the name would catch on though.
:)
Maybe the thread should be re-titled 'The Decca Conundrum', don't think the name would catch on though.
:)
Like it:)
brian2957
27-08-2016, 07:04
James , there's always a trade-off it seems . As me old mucker Tony always says - '' pick your distortion '' . I heard a Decca many years ago and was struck by the way it reproduced music , however , it did have its own set of unique foibles and I always preferred to stick to mainstream products .
Yes, I found the superiority of the line contact over my previous gold s stylus to be quite marked. Tracking, clarity, detail, separation of instruments were much improved giving an overall more sophisticated sound.
Its the stylus used in the more expensive jubilee cartridge so that should tell us something I think. My you I've heard it said the paratracer ? is even better, never stop does it !!.
Yes, I found the superiority of the line contact over my previous gold s stylus to be quite marked. Tracking, clarity, detail, separation of instruments were much improved giving an overall more sophisticated sound.
Its the stylus used in the more expensive jubilee cartridge so that should tell us something I think. My you I've heard it said the paratracer ? is even better, never stop does it !!.
Your quite right it never does stop, whatever you've got you always want more!:) However even with the standard spherical tip the Blue is a mightily impressive cartridge. I am sure the line contact will put it into another league!?
To draw this thread to a close, this is what a certain forum owner said of my Decca Mk.VI (aka the Decca Gold):
The Decca of Barry's (which I still have and am currently in the process of assessing) is superb. At some point in the near future I will definitely add one to my cartridge collection.
To give you a brief summary of my thoughts so far, the Decca has a wonderful way with music, where subtle vocal inflections are gently teased from grooves with seemingly the dextrous touch of a ballerina, and rhythms and melodies are 'locked onto' and delivered with infectious élan, making for a rendition of music that positively bristles with joie de vivre.
Ultimately though, I suspect that I won't love it quite as much as the (Ortofon) SPU. The SPU 'does its thang' with music, and likewise the Decca. Both cartridges have their own individual brand of magic which different listeners will 'tune into' and revel in.
What I feel can be said for certain, however, is that the Decca is worthy of joining the select group of cartridges still produced today which genuinely showcase the emotion and musical intent on recordings, before prosaic 'hi-fi considerations' or pandering to the commercial demands of a 'modern sound', as such the Decca encourages lengthy and highly rewarding listening sessions.
I'll go into more detail in a separate report when I've completed its appraisal (The report never materialised.)
topoxforddoc
02-09-2016, 13:21
No need to close the thread. Always good to talk about Deccas and sharing advice learnt over many years of happy Decca ownership.
Indeed mine just keeps surprising me with its abilities. I played a track last week on a very classic rock album and it made my jaw drop! In the many years I have listened to Hifi this particular track played by the Decca is probably a high point of thrilling realism.
I am going to play the same track to Firebottle when he returns to these shores to see what his reaction is!:)
You need a podded Microscanner set up into a good turntable and sympathetic tonearm (damped Unipivot?)! Feed into a phono stage with masses of headroom - not all do - and then compare with master recordings while it still works as I was lucky enough to do - no doubts about the sonics then I assure you :D
[QUOTE=DSJR;784864]You need a podded Microscanner set up into a good turntable and sympathetic tonearm (damped Unipivot?)! Feed into a phono stage with masses of headroom - not all do - and then compare with master recordings while it still works as I was lucky enough to do - no doubts about the sonics then I assure you :D[/QUOTE
Podding the Decca can rob some of its life and dynamic abilities. I have heard both podded and unpodded Deccas and prefer the unpodded.
I have to disagree here. A stock Decca with flimsy plastic mounting has a 'twang' to it which shouldn't be there in my experience. The tin body is also resonant and when launched in the early 70's, there were questions asked about the flimsy construction over the very solidly made C4E models for example - I wish I'd kept all the Hi Fi Sound mags I had with all this stuff in them. One compromise was to put a ball of blue-tac or similar between cartridge top and headshell, but again, tonearm choice is crucial for any Decca and I was spoiled with the Mentor arm for so long, until my Decca broke down. The NAS tonearms were designed with Decca's in mind and were superbly stable I remember and having set mine up at 1.5 to 1.6g as recommended by Garrott on the individual 'calibration' sheet supplied, I never ever had tracing issues. I believe the Garrott ones may have had other things done inside in addition to the diamond used, as the post 11k 'zing' was all but removed on these, but a VDH tipped 'Silver' a pal had also sounded quite lovely in an early 'Omega Point' tonearm on a 'Bastin'd' 301.
I don't mean to willy wave, but I did also have some good master-tape copies and a mint hi-speed Revox B77 (IEC eq) to play them on for a few years (it's all now in a pal's audio 'museum' never again to show the light of day until he passes methinks). No lack of dynamics on the Microscanner at all. In fact it made many other cartridges sound dull and lazy in comparison, hence my raving about it here.
I have to disagree here. A stock Decca with flimsy plastic mounting has a 'twang' to it which shouldn't be there in my experience. The tin body is also resonant and when launched in the early 70's, there were questions asked about the flimsy construction over the very solidly made C4E models for example - I wish I'd kept all the Hi Fi Sound mags I had with all this stuff in them. One compromise was to put a ball of blue-tac or similar between cartridge top and headshell, but again, tonearm choice is crucial for any Decca and I was spoiled with the Mentor arm for so long, until my Decca broke down. The NAS tonearms were designed with Decca's in mind and were superbly stable I remember and having set mine up at 1.5 to 1.6g as recommended by Garrott on the individual 'calibration' sheet supplied, I never ever had tracing issues. I believe the Garrott ones may have had other things done inside in addition to the diamond used, as the post 11k 'zing' was all but removed on these, but a VDH tipped 'Silver' a pal had also sounded quite lovely in an early 'Omega Point' tonearm on a 'Bastin'd' 301.
I don't mean to willy wave, but I did also have some good master-tape copies and a mint hi-speed Revox B77 (IEC eq) to play them on for a few years (it's all now in a pal's audio 'museum' never again to show the light of day until he passes methinks). No lack of dynamics on the Microscanner at all. In fact it made many other cartridges sound dull and lazy in comparison, hence my raving about it here.
My Decca certainly doesn't sound twangy and I am using the original plastic mount and some audiophile Blu tack. Tracking weight is 2.2g on a damped unipivot belter. Simply stunning sound and I agree makes most other cartridges sound slow and slightly out of focus. I have a few test records which have some very tricky instruments including chime bells and metallic bars. ALL other cartridges I have tried cannot reproduce these without smearing the sound. The Decca plays them absolutely cleanly and precisely with great focus,detail and solidity.
Vocals as I have banged on about so many times are a revelation. I don't think I will ever hear another cartridge which can portray vocals like the Decca Blue.
hifi_dave
03-09-2016, 13:42
[QUOTE=DSJR;784864]You need a podded Microscanner set up into a good turntable and sympathetic tonearm (damped Unipivot?)! Feed into a phono stage with masses of headroom - not all do - and then compare with master recordings while it still works as I was lucky enough to do - no doubts about the sonics then I assure you :D[/QUOTE
Podding the Decca can rob some of its life and dynamic abilities. I have heard both podded and unpodded Deccas and prefer the unpodded.
The Pod Dave refers to is the original and superior model designed and made by Tom Fletcher. This grips the body of the cartridge without crushing the 'life' out of it. We fitted them to every Decca we sold, back in the day.
I posted a pic on page 2 of this thread, which shows the Pod fitted.
Ali Tait
03-09-2016, 16:21
They can also be "potted" can they not?
Sure I recall John Wright saying something when I enquired about my Maroon a while back. Anyone had this done?
topoxforddoc
03-09-2016, 16:32
They can also be "potted" can they not?
Sure I recall John Wright saying something when I enquired about my Maroon a while back. Anyone had this done?
That's what the Garrott Brothers did. Nightmare if you have to rebuild rather than retip though.
walpurgis
03-09-2016, 16:36
They can also be "potted" can they not?
Sure I recall John Wright saying something when I enquired about my Maroon a while back. Anyone had this done?
I assume you mean 'potted' within the tin can body Ali?
I'm not sure quite how that could be done without the potting agent intruding into the stylus area. I guess a rapid setting putty type filler could maybe be used, but that would be really tricky. You couldn't use bitumen, as it moves and would contaminate things it shouldn't contact.
Point of no return if it's done. How would you get it apart for servicing.
My Decca certainly doesn't sound twangy and I am using the original plastic mount and some audiophile Blu tack. Tracking weight is 2.2g on a damped unipivot belter. Simply stunning sound and I agree makes most other cartridges sound slow and slightly out of focus. I have a few test records which have some very tricky instruments including chime bells and metallic bars. ALL other cartridges I have tried cannot reproduce these without smearing the sound. The Decca plays them absolutely cleanly and precisely with great focus,detail and solidity.
Vocals as I have banged on about so many times are a revelation. I don't think I will ever hear another cartridge which can portray vocals like the Decca Blue.
If you compare your Decca stylus-entering-groove sound with any other cartridge, my definition of the Decca version is a nasal 'twang' which no other cartridge seems to do, not even the wild Rega Apheta which shows huge promise in the Decca-like department, especially as the excesses are reportedly tamed now :D Sorry, I'm being pedantic :rolleyes:
Here's mine with Tom Fletcher supplied 'Pod.'
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DSCF1438.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/DSCF1438.jpg.html)
I do agree when you drop it in the groove it's sounds like a nail in a tin can but then it goes on to deliver such a full bodied sound, well it does on my deck.:)
I assume you mean 'potted' within the tin can body Ali?
I'm not sure quite how that could be done without the potting agent intruding into the stylus area. I guess a rapid setting putty type filler could maybe be used, but that would be really tricky. You couldn't use bitumen, as it moves and would contaminate things it shouldn't contact.
Point of no return if it's done. How would you get it apart for servicing.
The early Deccas (< the Mk. V) often had their plastic housings filled with wax.
Apropos mounting blocks and pods, the Decca Mk. VI I loaned for 'review' (post 95) was fitted into the GB block and used with an arm without damping. The GB block was designed and made by the same people who designed the Zeta arm; where Deccca cartridges were used extensively during development of the arm. Regarding the use of the GB block - if the grub screws are tightened too much, the tin body of the cartridge can become distorted and out of shape, with possible movement of the magnet/coil assemblies. The set screws should only be tightened such that the block just 'nips' the cartridge so that the cartridge top cannot slide within the mounting groove.
If you compare your Decca stylus-entering-groove sound with any other cartridge, my definition of the Decca version is a nasal 'twang' which no other cartridge seems to do, not even the wild Rega Apheta which shows huge promise in the Decca-like department, especially as the excesses are reportedly tamed now :D Sorry, I'm being pedantic :rolleyes:
Here's mine with Tom Fletcher supplied 'Pod.'
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DSCF1438.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/DSCF1438.jpg.html)
The unique sound of any Decca entering a record groove is an indication of the very fast rise time and speed of the cartridge: attributes which makes the cartridge have life, speed, presence and 'air'.
walpurgis
03-09-2016, 21:02
The unique sound of any Decca entering a record groove is an indication of the very fast rise time and speed of the cartridge: attributes which makes the cartridge have life, speed, presence and 'air'.
I thought the relative lack of damping at the stylus was responsible.
I thought the relative lack of damping at the stylus was responsible.
Yes it is, and it is what gives the Decca cartridges their unique attributes, and what causes Deccas to have a unique sound when the stylus drops into the groove.
The latter is a symptom of the performance behaviour; the effect, your reference to the lack of stylus damping of the generator is the cause.
walpurgis
03-09-2016, 21:14
And this is why fluid damped arms seem to suit Deccas well, no doubt.
And this is why fluid damped arms seem to suit Deccas well, no doubt.
That would depend on how well the excess energy is absorbed/dispelled. Fluid damped arms (regardless of whether they are a uni-pivot design or not) are almost sine qua non, but I believe some undamped arms could work if their bearings are good enough, so that the excess energy is ducted through them without reflection and thence absorbed in the mass of the TT chassis.
You only have to drop a Decca cartridge onto a record and turn your amp volume to zero to hear just how much energy these little beasts create.
This weekend I intend to hook up my Denon 301 MK2 by way of contrasting what it sounds like compared to the Decca and vis versa. I have had the Decca Blue playing for 2 months now and am curious as to what it really has achieved in my system compared to other cartridges I have.
I am expecting a loss of dynamics, detail, realism and musicality but we shall see.
Yes, I expected the same when I compared my rock11/ technoarm/ decca sg cartridge, against my Lenco 75/ shure 75 EJ / stock arm.
And whilst the decca set up was much cleaner and transparent with astonishing dynamics the Lenco sounded a wee bit more musical,
with better separation of instruments, to my ears anyway. So you never no James ? hi fi is always full of surprises
It's always good to revert back to the situation you had before you made the change, just to see if your initial impressions are correct.
In the case of Decca cartridges, I'm so impressed with them for all their faults, that I always have one set up on one of my TTs. I like to play around with cartridges; at the moment I've just set up an Ortofon MC200 cartridge in place of the Denon 103 I was using previously. And then maybe in a couple of months time, I'll try an EMT XSD-15 with a Van den Hul tip.
Yes it will let me know if my impressions are correct or imagined. One area that cannot be equalled are vocals - for me the Decca is absolutely supreme.
Popped the Denon 301 MK2 back in the system and I lost so much of everything apart from a bit of soundstage width.
Decca Blue now reinstalled and life has come back to the system!
Just had an interesting doing some work on the Lenco which I will write up later with some photos. However I have just plugged this into my system and giving it a spin. Now I use the M55e with JICO SAS cartridge on the Lenco which is very good indeed, however compared to the Decca it just falls short in so many areas.
The biggest is the clarity and focus on instruments. Piano sounds blurred and everything a little mushy in comparison even though the SAS stylus profile does dig up more detail. Playing some closely recorded jazz reveals just how much better the DECCA Blue does it. There is a slightly better sound stage with the Jico SAS but the whole recording sounds slightly veiled in comparison.
The Decca simply shines a light into the recording and reveals a more accurate portrayal of everthing which means it sounds that bit more real and live!
Found this review of the Decca Gold but to be honest it could very much apply to the Blue which I feel is better than the Gold. The findings articulated by the reviewer regarding the listening experience of the Decca cartridge chime very much with how I hear this cartridge.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0609/london_super_gold_jubilee.htm
walpurgis
02-10-2016, 19:43
The Gold has better analysis of upper detail. But to me, somehow lacks the dynamics of the Blue. The Export Grey is a nice compromise between the two. Lovely cartridge.
topoxforddoc
02-10-2016, 19:47
Found this review of the Decca Gold but to be honest it could very much apply to the Blue which I feel is better than the Gold. The findings articulated by the reviewer regarding the listening experience of the Decca cartridge chime very much with how I hear this cartridge.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0609/london_super_gold_jubilee.htm
Some of the early Mark V Blues had the earlier Parmeko magnets. Other than that, not much different between a V and a VI Decca apart from stylus tip.
Some of the early Mark V Blues had the earlier Parmeko magnets. Other than that, not much different between a V and a VI Decca apart from stylus tip.
My Blue has the Parmiko coils which gives it an edge over many of the MK V's however I intend to upgrade it to a line contact stylus as soon as I have worn out the conical it is fitted with at the moment. The rate I am using it that should not be too long.:)
The Gold has better analysis of upper detail. But to me, somehow lacks the dynamics of the Blue. The Export Grey is a nice compromise between the two. Lovely cartridge.
I think that maybe because the gold had a better stylus profile. I think Andy ( Rexton )now has one of the ultimate stylus profiles fitted to his Maroon so I bet that sounds good.:eyebrows:
Wakefield Turntables
02-10-2016, 20:30
I think that maybe because the gold had a better stylus profile. I think Andy ( Rexton )now has one of the ultimate stylus profiles fitted to his Maroon so I bet that sounds good.:eyebrows:
Yep I do, but rather I've been rather naughty and playing with a Lenco and Shure M55E the Maroon I own has taken a back seat for a while.
The Gold has better analysis of upper detail. But to me, somehow lacks the dynamics of the Blue. The Export Grey is a nice compromise between the two. Lovely cartridge.
When you send any of these cartridges back to JW he recalibrates them as part of the work he does servicing and retipping. So although the Grey was an export Blue this was only due to the fact it was assembled slightly better. A recalibrated Blue should be as good as a Grey after a fettle. The Maroon and the Gold had different stylus profiles but the coils were the same I believe apart from the Parmeko coils which were manufactured to Decca's specification. After a short period they were contracted out to another manufacturer and did not achieve the same quality.
Ali Tait
03-10-2016, 12:31
How do you know if the cart has Parmeko coils?
When you send any of these cartridges back to JW he recalibrates them as part of the work he does servicing and retipping. So although the Grey was an export Blue this was only due to the fact it was assembled slightly better. A recalibrated Blue should be as good as a Grey after a fettle. The Maroon and the Gold had different stylus profiles but the coils were the same I believe apart from the Parmico coils which were manufactures in house by Decca. After a short period they were contracted out to another manufacturer and did not achieve the same quality.
The Maroon was fitted with a spherical-tipped stylus as were the Blue and the Grey.
Presumably the "Parmico" coils were made by Parmeko themselves for Decca.
How do you know if the cart has Parmeko coils?
John Wright let me know when I had mine serviced but to be honest Ali even though you can open the lid on a Decca I would not be able to tell by sight. However the early MK V Deccas had them fitted before a switch to another manufacturer.
Aparantly most of the Blues had Parmeko coils fitted before Decca moved to another manufacture. I have been informed the only way to tell if they are Parmeko coils is by measuring the output impedance
Do you know who this other coil manufacture was, and what the 'before and after' coil impedance values are?
I can't tell you Barry who the other manufacturer was but the output impedance was higher on the Parmeko coils.
I can't tell you Barry who the other manufacturer was but the output impedance was higher on the Parmeko coils.
Cheers Jim. I'll look at the data sheets that came with my Deccas and if necessary measure the resistance.
I have to confess this is the first time I've heard of the change of coil manufacture to one of a (suggested) poorer quality. Do you know who makes the coils for the London 'Reference'?
Cheers Jim. I'll look at the data sheets that came with my Deccas and if necessary measure the resistance.
I have to confess this is the first time I've heard of the change of coil manufacture to one of a (suggested) poorer quality. Do you know who makes the coils for the London 'Reference'?
Sorry Barry can't tell you who manufactured the coils after Parmeko but JW would tell you if you give him a ring. The Mark 4 Decca's had parmeko coils I believe which may explain a little why these were also considered better than the MK V although I think they did have hum issues with certain types of turntables with steel platters. The Mk V addressed this issue and the 1/2 inch mounting.
walpurgis
03-10-2016, 15:48
although the Grey was an export Blue this was only due to the fact it was assembled slightly better
I had a number of Blues and the Grey sounded rather different. I'm not sure, but I believe there my have been a difference in the compliance.
I had a number of Blues and the Grey sounded rather different. I'm not sure, but I believe there my have been a difference in the compliance.
The Greys (or Export) were selected Blues, and tended to have slightly higher compliance figures.
The Greys (or Export) were selected Blues, and tended to have slightly higher compliance figures.
As the Decca cartridge is such a variable beast in build quality and variation of stylus profile it is no wonder folks get so many different results! If you get a poor one that is not set up just so it will probably sound like crap.
If you get a good one set up bang on with great build quality and stylus then the magic is there.
The Decca Blue is going back to John Wright next week.:eyebrows:
Tried an At33PTG/II yet? ;)
Tried an At33PTG/II yet? ;)
:) As much as I would like too Kevin I don't think I will be venturing down the MC route for some time yet although when I do it will be an AT33PTG/II next.
I am still enthralled by my Decca at the moment and my itch to take it to the next level has got the better of me! You know how it goes.:)
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