Granite [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

Rare Bird

24-11-2009, 13:07

I'm holding no claims of improved sound but i decided to get rid of the ugly glass shelf i had on the wall for some nice Granite, just looks nicer that's all.I've got a couple for under the speakers aswell..

Thought i'd show you. Doesnt cost the earth as most maunufacturers would have you believe.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/Granite2.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/Granite1.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/ONIX-1-1.jpg

Alex_UK

24-11-2009, 13:46

Rare Bird

24-11-2009, 13:51

Looks good!

Sainsbury's do a nice granite "worktop saver" for a tenner that I keep thinking about getting, which would be about the right size for normal components, and I've got a Tesco granite placemat under my Caiman!

Yes but the beveled edges are usually poor..A hell of a lot who provide Granite/marble are hand edged. The Edging/polishing etc on those platforms are done with one of these

http://www.comandulli.it/web_eng/marble_edge_polisher.asp?id_macro=2&id_micro=4&id=13

Spectral Morn

24-11-2009, 14:52

Granite or Slate as a material under some kit is beneficial to sound quality. Interestingly Micromega was one of the first companies to recommend using it under there top-loading CD players such as the CDF1 DUO and the TRIO. If I remember right (?) I think the Trio used granite in one part and energy sinking spikes to remove any excess vibration. The ART 1 CD player uses granite in its base and an American company called Barclay made CD players with Granite and Corian as a main part of the case work.

I use granite under my Oracle Delhi turntable and upstairs as supports for my speakers stands, both to raise them to the correct height and to prevent bass bleed through the floor to the room below (living room). Works well for both applications. Looks nice as well.

However from a structural point of view, in regard to vibration transmission slate is better as its more dense.

Couple of the forums members have used slate as plinth material for turntables and Twelvebears (hes not been around much recently? I think) have made entire speaker cabinets from slate. Hard to work though, to get a good finish, especially around the edges.

Regards D S D L

The Grand Wazoo

24-11-2009, 15:08

I use granite under my Oracle Delhi turntable and upstairs as supports for my speakers stands, both to raise them to the correct height and to prevent bass bleed through the floor to the room below (living room). Works well for both applications. Looks nice as well.

The Oracle turntable, Neil - is this a model for export to India only?!

I've had mixed results with granite-I found it good under almost everything except my speakers. I saw Andre's cones there - I found downward pointing cones better than upward every time.

However from a structural point of view, in regard to vibration transmission slate is better as its more dense

I'm suprised that a laminated structure would transmit any vibrations better than a crystalline one, I'd have thought that vibrations would travel across the thickness of the slab (up or down) till they hit an area of coarse grain - i.e. where there was another layer - then divert at 90 degrees towards the edge. Of course, this may or may not be a good thing - I don't know, I've never tried to explain the theory of any of these things, I just like the effect of granite

I'm also suprised that slate is more dense than granite - is this correct?
Edit: - I just checked on Simetric's website - http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_materials.htm
It says they are both 2691 kg/m3 but I'd expect some variation & more so in slate than granite

Rare Bird

24-11-2009, 15:31

I saw Andre's cones there - I found downward pointing cones better than upward every time.

The upward firing cones arnt there now, i took that pic a few days ago.I now have small ones firing down like under the amp.

Spectral Morn

24-11-2009, 17:42

The Oracle turntable, Neil - is this a model for export to India only?!

No thats whats called a typo :doh::lol::lol: its a Delphi.

I've had mixed results with granite-I found it good under almost everything except my speakers. I saw Andre's cones there - I found downward pointing cones better than upward every time.

I would agree with that.

I'm suprised that a laminated structure would transmit any vibrations better than a crystalline one, I'd have thought that vibrations would travel across the thickness of the slab (up or down) till they hit an area of coarse grain - i.e. where there was another layer - then divert at 90 degrees towards the edge. Of course, this may or may not be a good thing - I don't know, I've never tried to explain the theory of any of these things, I just like the effect of granite

Sorry I explained that wrong, its better at not transmitting vibration as well as granite.

I'm also suprised that slate is more dense than granite - is this correct?
Edit: - I just checked on Simetric's website - http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_materials.htm
It says they are both 2691 kg/m3 but I'd expect some variation & more so in slate than granite

Interesting.....

Regards D S D L

Rare Bird

25-11-2009, 04:16

The Oracle turntable, Neil - is this a model for export to India only?!

:lolsign:

twelvebears

25-11-2009, 08:22

Couple of the forums members have used slate as plinth material for turntables and Twelvebears (hes not been around much recently? I think) have made entire speaker cabinets from slate. Hard to work though, to get a good finish, especially around the edges.

Hellooo, it's me!

Still around but have just been very busy working on the new house and also spending a bit of time sorting out my media centre arrangements.

Neil's right, slate is a cracking material for audio type applications because it's layered structure makes it less prone to ringing that granite. Down sides are that it's a lot softer that granite so will mark more easily if you're not careful.

Spectral Morn

25-11-2009, 09:47

Hellooo, it's me!

Still around but have just been very busy working on the new house and also spending a bit of time sorting out my media centre arrangements.

Neil's right, slate is a cracking material for audio type applications because it's layered structure makes it less prone to ringing that granite. Down sides are that it's a lot softer that granite so will mark more easily if you're not careful.

Nice to have you back... I noticed your absence. Everything going well I hope.

Yes thats it ! It does not ring like Granite.....:doh: Errrr...my brain was, who knows where yesterday :confused: ? Marble is also worse than Granite from a ringing point of view + it stains very easily too.

Regards D S D L

The Grand Wazoo

25-11-2009, 10:42

Slate varies quite a bit from area to area because of the different parent rocks it's formed from - it's from sediment laid down by water (it's highly squished silt).

So, what about Slate with a high quartz content - does this behave more like granite? It would certainly be harder.

Also, I wonder what effect grain orientation would have? Does a piece that's cross-cut sound the same as a bit that's cut along the grain (assuming it could remain intact without falling into lots of little bits).

I suppose the ringing of granite could be reduced with some crafty part way through cutting.

electric beach

25-11-2009, 11:52

I'm also sold on granite platforms but I find that what goes under them is equally as important as the material. The Vertex platforms use granite with layers of different materials on the base to give a 'vibration maze' and a varied frequency exit path underneath to stop vibrations bouncing back out and up into the component. I found that RDC cones under the granite platform were essential to maintain a relaxed presentation and enhanced the benefits of granite considerably. Compliant options didn't work, probably didn't transmit energy. Granite directly onto the wall mounted racks, with or without Blutack wasn't best either.

I've spent far too long trying different shelf materials like bonded glass, trying different supports like inflatable tubes, spikes, etc. Now I'm comfortable that I can't get the support any better on a DIY basis. Well, maybe I could but it doesn't sound like I need to; frequency range seems balanced, presentation flows effortlessly and imaging is completely out of the speakers and these are my priorities.

I use 2 x RDC2 cones combined with 1 custom made hard spike under each component, then a 25mm granite platform sitting on 3 x RDC2 cones. These then sit on the glass shelves of the rack, but I haven't found that this layer has much effect when I've tried wood or another granite shelf in it's place, so the glass stays - only to wind up the cleaning wench, as it makes such a wonderful visible dust trap!

Rare Bird

25-11-2009, 12:13

Conglomerate marble could be a different effect is made from large pieces of marble compacted together with a resin.

Alex_UK

25-11-2009, 20:10

the glass stays - only to wind up the cleaning wench, as it makes such a wonderful visible dust trap!

Now now Valerie, don't be so hard on him! :lol:

electric beach

26-11-2009, 12:21

Now now Valerie, don't be so hard on him! :lol:

Very good Alex, I didn't see that one coming.

Actually she's banned from cleaning anywhere within 3 feet of the system since flitting around with one of those fluffy sticks when the amp was on and melting nylon to the bloody tubes!

She did subsequently redeem herself by stating "get that MP3 shite off, it sounds lifeless". And "What are we getting next?"

I'm trying to get her to write a post about women and the Hi Fi addiction but it's got as far as the basic premise that "music and chatter are mutually exclusive"!

Jonboy

26-11-2009, 13:53

Themis

26-11-2009, 14:00

I feel lonely being the one (it seems) who never puts its bits on some spikes or marble stands... :(

Rare Bird

26-11-2009, 14:26

Asda chopping board stuck on blue tack under my Micromega duo3 thats sits on Nordost pulsar points

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp272/jonboy_01/DSC_0094-1.jpg

I would like to cover the whole of my dresser in granite so everything sits nice and flat with some sort of isolation

The matching Micromega DAC is on E-Bay at the mo Jonboy

If you knew how much these custom granite shelves were i bought you'd die.

Spectral Morn

26-11-2009, 14:27

Asda chopping board stuck on blue tack under my Micromega duo3 thats sits on Nordost pulsar points

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp272/jonboy_01/DSC_0094-1.jpg

I would like to cover the whole of my dresser in granite so everything sits nice and flat with some sort of isolation

There you go granite and Micromega....:)

Nice clock (Clocks?) Jon, do you collect them?

Regards D S D L

Jonboy

26-11-2009, 16:18

The matching Micromega DAC is on E-Bay at the mo Jonboy

If you knew how much these custom granite shelves were i bought you'd die.

Not the tenner i paid then

Do you mean like this one Andre :lol:

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp272/jonboy_01/DSC_0862.jpg

Jonboy

26-11-2009, 16:31

Nice clock (Clocks?) Jon, do you collect them?

Regards D S D L

I have about 15 around and about the house and in ther garage some American and some French and a couple of English and an odd German, i have got a nice old Long case French comtiose, stands 7ft 9 and has 5 inch bell, also have a bit of a thing about watches:mental:

Rare Bird

26-11-2009, 17:02

Not the tenner i paid then

Do you mean like this one Andre :lol:

Do they have CNC applied bevel edges & polishing? ;)

They cost me £19.00 each + postage. In 20mm or 30mm thick. both same price.

Jonboy

26-11-2009, 17:34

Do they have CNC applied bevel edges & polishing? ;)

They cost me £19.00 each + postage. In 20mm or 30mm thick. both same price.

They are polished but only have a small chamfered edge (a bit rough truth be known) and are 20mm thick,

Rare Bird

26-11-2009, 17:38

They are polished but only have a small chamfered edge (a bit rough truth be known) and are 20mm thick,

Yeh i noticed the lack of proper edge..You'll be suprised how many suppliers apply poor uneven hand edges ..

Spectral Morn

26-11-2009, 17:42

I have about 15 around and about the house and in ther garage some American and some French and a couple of English and an odd German, i have got a nice old Long case French comtiose, stands 7ft 9 and has 5 inch bell, also have a bit of a thing about watches:mental:

Thanks for the info...oil lamps are my area of specialist interest. I didn't mention the Tilly lamp in the photo as well....do you collect those too?

Regards D S D L

Jonboy

26-11-2009, 18:01

Thanks for the info...oil lamps are my area of specialist interest. I didn't mention the Tilly lamp in the photo as well....do you collect those too?

Regards D S D L

Thats a newish thing, i picked that one up at Westbay (Dorset) earlier this year, it should be painted white but it has been polished back to brass, i have also started collecting Pidgeon lamps, i like to visit flea markets when i'm in France and have got a few bargains along the way, there is a guy i know from Hampshire that is known as Tilley John he has hundreds of lamps.

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp272/jonboy_01/DSC_0100-1.jpg

I think we have gone off topic a bit here oh well

Themis

26-11-2009, 18:06

I think we have gone off topic a bit here oh well
Just mention it the word "granite" somewhere, it should be ok...
Something like "this lamp illuminates granite nicely" or "it belonged to a old woman called Granny T", you see what I mean.

Rare Bird

26-11-2009, 18:07

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp272/jonboy_01/DSC_0100-1.jpg

Very nice

Homebase plant pot..

Ask Steve Toy if he'll give the lamp a clean while he's hard at his amp chassis :lol:

Spectral Morn

26-11-2009, 18:15

Thats a newish thing, i picked that one up at Westbay (Dorset) earlier this year, it should be painted white but it has been polished back to brass, i have also started collecting Pidgeon lamps, i like to visit flea markets when i'm in France and have got a few bargains along the way, there is a guy i know from Hampshire that is known as Tilley John he has hundreds of lamps.

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp272/jonboy_01/DSC_0100-1.jpg

I think we have gone off topic a bit here oh well

Nice.

I have a few Tilley lamps (early Edwardian Corinthian column ones with nice shades), but pressurised lamps are a wee bit to modern for me. I prefer lamps from the previous century.

France is a good place to look, but can be a bit dear and you should look out for fakes....there are lots of fakes. I mostly buy in Scotland.

Thread drift is all part of AOS...its all part of the fun.

Regards D S D L

Jonboy

26-11-2009, 20:19

Very nice

Homebase plant pot..

Ask Steve Toy if he'll give the lamp a clean while he's hard at his amp chassis :lol:

Ive heard he likes rubbing things up often , perhaps he's been hanging around with Marco too much now they have mutual rubbing of copper amps, 99 change hands oops

Peter Galbavy

27-11-2009, 09:29

Back to granite, these are good value and solid - but not the prettiest. I have a pair under my speakers:

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/8423689.htm

(£9.99, chopping board, black speckled for those too lazy to click)

electric beach

27-11-2009, 10:38

There are two DIY sources if you want a custom spec. Companies that produce kitchen counters get plenty of off-cuts, usually 20-25mm thick and will cut to size and polish to a lower finish that gives a better contact interface than a highly polished surface. Also companies that produce fire surrounds in a single piece get left with a useful piece about 50x60cm.

chrism

27-11-2009, 17:06

Thick glass may actually be better as it is even "deader" than granite. May be cheaper as well but not sure how thick you can get it. The ones on the Argos site above are 12mm thk I think.

Regards

Rare Bird

27-11-2009, 18:06

The Grand Wazoo

27-11-2009, 21:07

Thick glass may actually be better as it is even "deader" than granite. May be cheaper as well but not sure how thick you can get it. The ones on the Argos site above are 12mm thk I think.

Regards

You want thick glass?

How about this.............

http://www.neptina.net/images/290_ThickGlassX-Base.jpg

2 to 3 inches thick!
The table's a bit pricey though - $2.5k!

Marco

27-11-2009, 22:24

The weight of that must be quite incredible!!

Marco.

bhasi

28-11-2009, 13:14

Rare Bird

28-11-2009, 13:31

Alex_UK

28-11-2009, 14:43

Now THATS granite! Amazing looking kit.

Nigel

28-11-2009, 16:25

I always wondered how a cd player might sound fairly tightly clamped between two granite chopping boards. Don't know if anyone has tried this experiment.

Marco

28-11-2009, 20:51

Lest this thread remain too sensible, VFM-orientated, etc, may I refer anyone unfamiliar with it to this Polish brand?

http://www.ancient.com.pl/brand_new_in.htm

(Much lauded over at 6moons, I believe!)

No doubt that it looks gorgeous, but one wonders if it's more style over substance?

I've seen stuff like that before, and it's disappointed me on listening. However, that one seems to have it 'going on under the hood', too, which is what ultimately matters to me most...

It would certainly be very interesting to hear it! :)

Marco.

Rare Bird

28-11-2009, 21:08

No doubt that it looks gorgeous, but one wonders if it's more style over substance?

I've seen stuff like that before, and it's disappointed me on listening. However, that one seems to have it 'going on under the hood', too, which is what ultimately matters to me most...

It would certainly be very interesting to hear it! :)

Marco.

without a doubt it's a piece of shite in a flash unit as most high end is but it does like nice & marks for adventure at least.

Macca

29-11-2009, 12:08

Why Yorkshire does not produce many professional hi-fi reviewers-

without a doubt it's a piece of shite in a flash unit as most high end is but it does like nice & marks for adventure at least.

REM

29-11-2009, 12:46

Why Yorkshire does not produce many professional hi-fi reviewers-

It's got nowt to do wi' language but everything to do wi' them bein' far to canny wi' brass t' be muckin' about wi' such triflin' stuff as fancy stereos, specially seein' as thy's already paid fer all t' music already anyways t'at stuck up BB bloody C....:lol:

Rare Bird

29-11-2009, 15:35

Why Yorkshire does not produce many professional hi-fi reviewers-

Aye cos we aint behind the door

Spectral Morn

29-11-2009, 17:33

I would suggest you all have a read of the Ancient Audio reviews on 6 Moons (both amplifiers and CD players) and then get a listen before you brand them as shite. I can't abide comments based on 0 listening experience.

I have not heard them my self but I would respect Srajan's ears as I have heard items he rates, that I rate too; including such items as the AMR CD77.

There are way to many comments made on forums that have no actual listening experience behind them. Have a listen and then share your opinion. If you have not heard them then say nothing. To brand something as shite because it uses granite and brass in its material structure is frankly a shite valueless comment imho, and hardly definitive. You can of course say you don't like the look of Ancient Audio's designs (I do by the way like the look of them) but thats all.

Regards D S D L

Marco

29-11-2009, 19:01

To brand something as shite because it uses granite and brass in its material structure is frankly a shite valueless comment imho, and hardly definitive...

:lolsign:

Sorry, couldn't help having a chuckle at that! I do share your sentiments, though!

However, quite often, IME (and no doubt Andre's), 'showy' hi-fi gear is 'all fur and nae knickers' (as it were), but of course one should reserve judgement until after listening to it :)

Marco.

Rare Bird

01-12-2009, 13:59

That's it all granite slabs in place. Just put these under my shite speakers this morning, just need some stainless spikes to replace those black mild steel affairs..God i love shit speakers, their so shit..The granite gives em a slight smoke screen effect. :lol:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/Granite.jpg

ONIX Addict

18-01-2010, 18:38

I always wondered how a cd player might sound fairly tightly clamped between two granite chopping boards. Don't know if anyone has tried this experiment.

Hi all,

Hi Nigel,

"Between two granite boards"... I can't tell... under one, yes, I can!

http://images3.hiboox.com/images/5309/dd630011bb48a34eb62281e61d1ec092.jpg (http://www.hiboox.fr/go/images/musique/p1020579,dd630011bb48a34eb62281e61d1ec092.jpg.html )

I've "charged" my CD, Pre+PSU, and Amp with boards of marble/granite... Also my speakers had the same treatment...

Regarding speakers, no doubt! Puting these on the speakers helps to make the "boxes" more "rigid" and improves bass quality as well as the medium...

Regarding electronics, I've noted a better definition of the soundstage, it's clearer and cleaner!

BTW, an interesting discussion with Themis, about knowing if it's better to put them above or under : (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5128)

The debate turns around "where are the vibes transmitted from?"...

So, what's your point of view?

O.A.;)

The Grand Wazoo

18-01-2010, 23:57

Just an observation, but I've found granite is not a universal cure-all panacea for siting your equipment on.

When I first tried it years ago - before buying my HNE racks, I put a piece under each piece of gear in turn, then under several combinations. I found that it was great under my speakers, pre-amp, phono stage CD player and valve power amp. It made no difference under my transistor power amp and tuner and it made my turntable sound crap.

I moved house - things changed. It was good under my turntable, it was good under the transistor amp. It made no difference to my speakers or my tuner.

I've moved house again recently. I've got it under everything except my tuner & speakers.

Take nothing for granted, try everything out first!

Mike Reed

19-01-2010, 10:52

A granite versus slate controversy, eh? That's a first! (???) Is this a new 'AOS Esoteric Range' of topics?

Usually it's the glass v. wood argument which rages from time to time.

Poor Dmitri (Themis); he doesn't have any of these bells and whistles, by his own admission. He doesn't say what supports he DOES have, though. Suspended by string from the ceiling? Don't mock; Roksan tried that with the Darius speakers!!!

Ali Tait

19-01-2010, 13:06

I'd say granite and slate are very different materials,granite having a crystalline structure,while slate is built up with many layers of varying hardness,giving a CLD effect.I've heard it make very large improvements to TT's.

The Grand Wazoo

19-01-2010, 13:12

Geology Wars? - No I'd say that was a step too far!

Chunks of uniformly machined granite are cheap & very easy to source, so inevitably more popular than slate, but I wanted to offer a word of caution to those who might use them without trying them out properly.
As I said, it's not a universal panacea.

Themis

19-01-2010, 22:39

Poor Dmitri (Themis); he doesn't have any of these bells and whistles, by his own admission. He doesn't say what supports he DOES have, though. Suspended by string from the ceiling? Don't mock; Roksan tried that with the Darius speakers!!!
:lolsign:
I have a general-purpose rack where I put amplifiers, dacs, buffers, game consoles, LPs... you name it. Often one on the other, as they fit.
I tried several things in the past (pads, etc) but, it doesn't work for me... :scratch: So, I leave everything with the feet that the designer chose. No risks.

The only piece which is isolated (with a simple ISOPLAT) is my Rega P3. ;)

Alex_UK

20-01-2010, 00:11

The only piece which is isolated (with a simple ISOPLAT) is my Rega P3. ;)

I fear for your soul - you may never get to heaven! :lol:

Themis

20-01-2010, 10:59

I fear for your soul - you may never get to heaven! :lol:
I don't mind, as I'm not sure that there's any music in "heaven" !!! :lol:

Mike Reed

20-01-2010, 18:17

I don't mind, as I'm not sure that there's any music in "heaven" !!! :lol:

Sure as Hell there's music in Heaven. Would've thought there'd be an alternative site between the two nowadays........Think that's where they'd play M.O.R., probably.

Themis

20-01-2010, 18:23

Sure as Hell there's music in Heaven. Would've thought there'd be an alternative site between the two nowadays........Think that's where they'd play M.O.R., probably.
What is M.O.R. ??? :scratch: Easy listening or something ?

Mike Reed

20-01-2010, 19:14

What is M.O.R. ??? :scratch: Easy listening or something ?

Sorry, 'middle of the road'

Your use of English makes me forget that you are not!

Themis

20-01-2010, 19:28

Yellow river and all that ? Geez, mercy... I will start a rock/blues radio if I go to heaven, then ! :lol:
Well, if the lady is there, too, perhaps it's worth it, who knows ?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SFrOm8BcL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

Sorry for the long thread drift, OP...