View Full Version : A Croft Power 7 or ... ?
Hi all,
so, as my Cyrus 8 is on repair, I started thinking about getting a new power amplifier.
I know that the most obvious solution would be a Croft series 7 power to match the actual Micro pre...
... but, perhaps some of you could have another idea ?
The budget is £1000, the preamplifier is the Croft Basic 25 pre and the speakers are Sonus Faber GPD (3way-4drivers-90dB)
Thank you for your insight. :)
Attached is my speakers' freq/impedance curve (very easy, as you can see).
hifi_dave
23-11-2009, 17:21
The Croft Seven is a no-brainer and you'll have some money left over but then I'm bound to say that.....:eyebrows:
The Croft Seven is a no-brainer and you'll have some money left over but then I'm bound to say that.....:eyebrows:
That a 1200 would be perfect with it ? :eyebrows:
Ali Tait
23-11-2009, 18:27
If you fancy valves,you could have one of the WD kits,ready built with money to spare,or for something a little different,how about a Transcendent Sound OTL kit? Several to choose from,and sound superb.Another good choice would be the Glasshouse 300b SE kit from Hi-Fi Collective.
See if Glenn will swap the 25 basic for the pukka 25 preamp for a tiny consideration and use this with the Series 7!!! It'll sound even better ;)
Sorted :D
Seriously, the preamp you have will do full justice to any half decent power amp out there - the Quad 909 would be another choice (a 606mk1 drives Sonus Fabers with no difficulty) that would be a "fit-and-forget" proposition - there was a 606mk2 on here only a day or two ago IIRC and that would leave you even more dosh available to race-tune it and get the 25R preamp...............
I'll get me coat..
I just thought - could a grand buy an old-but-good Radford STA25, Woodside or a Papworth or similar, or have the prices of these gone stupid?
hifi_dave
23-11-2009, 19:06
Prices of vintage Radford went 'stupid' some time ago. I'm hanging on to my Radford pre, tuner and mono's to pay for my retirement.....:lolsign:
If you fancy valves,you could have one of the WD kits,ready built with money to spare,or for something a little different,how about a Transcendent Sound OTL kit? Several to choose from,and sound superb.Another good choice would be the Glasshouse 300b SE kit from Hi-Fi Collective.
I'm really sorry but I'm no good with kits... :( Are they sold mounted ?
See if Glenn will swap the 25 basic for the pukka 25 preamp for a tiny consideration and use this with the Series 7!!! It'll sound even better ;)
Sorted :D
Yes, that sounds like a good idea ! :)
I'll have to gather all my courage, though... I'm rather shy, and it sounds difficult to tell Glenn to swap the pre... I'll think of it, it is indeed very interesting.
Seriously, the preamp you have will do full justice to any half decent power amp out there - the Quad 909 would be another choice (a 606mk1 drives Sonus Fabers with no difficulty) that would be a "fit-and-forget" proposition - there was a 606mk2 on here only a day or two ago IIRC and that would leave you even more dosh available to race-tune it and get the 25R preamp...............
I'll get me coat..
A Quad 909 ? Do you think it's better than the Cyrus 8 ? (I haven't heard a 909 for a long time, mind you) :scratch:
A 25R ? :eyebrows: Seriously ? Where can I get one ? (This sounds more like a remake of "Back to the Future" !!! ;))
I just thought - could a grand buy an old-but-good Radford STA25, Woodside or a Papworth or similar, or have the prices of these gone stupid?
Saw a Woodside, still around $2000-$2500... forget it. :(
Ali Tait
23-11-2009, 20:28
I'm really sorry but I'm no good with kits... :( Are they sold mounted ?
With your budget,all of these could be bought ready built.The thing with kits is,the performance you get is far above that of commercial stuff of a similar price.For instance,take the WD KEL84.Costs about 450 of thereabouts.I'd put it up against anything commercial at up to say 2k.Maybe more.It's that good.Seriously.
Yes, that sounds like a good idea ! :)
I'll have to gather all my courage, though... I'm rather shy, and it sounds difficult to tell Glenn to swap the pre... I'll think of it, it is indeed very interesting.
A Quad 909 ? Do you think it's better than the Cyrus 8 ? (I haven't heard a 909 for a long time, mind you) :scratch:
A 25R ? :eyebrows: Seriously ? Where can I get one ? (This sounds more like a remake of "Back to the Future" !!! ;))
Glenn's not a monster, nor is he a patronising git like some in this industry.....
Haven't heard current Cyrus, but for a grand, the 909 packs plenty of good old fashioned wallop and reproduces air and space well, all the untidy bits in the 405-2 being sorted from the outset. Unlike the Croft, which has olde worlde charm oozing from every molecule, the 909 is a breeze-block you fit and forget :)
The Cambridge 800 series power amp is around the grand level isn't it. I expect that to be another power house of great achievement, but a bit anonymous with it.
Seriously, do a deal with Glenn about chopping your 25 basic in against a 25 and Series 7. I'm sure he'd be delighted as long as the basic preamp is in mint nick...
I'm sure he'd be delighted as long as the basic preamp is in mint nick...
No worries, I plugged, and, as my amp indicated "Closed for holidays" I packed it back, waiting for another amp. It's surely mint. ;)
hifi_dave
23-11-2009, 20:54
Saw a Woodside, still around $2000-$2500... forget it. :(
And it's nothing like a vintage Radford...:doh:
Get a Seven, you know it makes sense....:smoking:
With your budget,all of these could be bought ready built.The thing with kits is,the performance you get is far above that of commercial stuff of a similar price.For instance,take the WD KEL84.Costs about 450 of thereabouts.I'd put it up against anything commercial at up to say 2k.Maybe more.It's that good.Seriously.
Hi Ali,
Whilst I agree with your sentiments, Croft gear can't really be viewed as "commercial" in the normal sense of the word. Glenn is essentially 'a bloke with a soldering iron', the same as you... The only difference is he's managed to form a small business selling his wares and been reasonably successful at it over the years.
His principles and the SPPV of his gear are completely at odds with that of other commercial manufacturers. You could set up an audio business tomorrow called 'Tait hi-fi' (or whatever) based on your current D.I.Y designs, and you'd be no different from Glenn :)
As much as I rate World Designs gear (and I do think it's excellent), I wouldn't necessarily say it was any better than what Glenn makes. More importantly, Dimitri doesn't appear to be entirely comfortable building stuff, so in this instance I don't feel that his interests are best served by the D.I.Y route.
Dimitri,
Go with Dave (DSJR's) suggestion and I promise you won't be disappointed! :cool:
Marco.
With your budget,all of these could be bought ready built.The thing with kits is,the performance you get is far above that of commercial stuff of a similar price.For instance,take the WD KEL84.Costs about 450 of thereabouts.I'd put it up against anything commercial at up to say 2k.Maybe more.It's that good.Seriously.
Thank you Ali. I'll take this into consideration.
Although Croft's gear seems to be in the same situation (of non-commercial stuff).
Dilemma, of course. But I already have a Croft preamp and, everything else considered equal, Croft's bits are supposed to work best together (well perhaps not ?). I'll think of it.
Go with Dave (DSJR's) suggestion and I promise you won't be disappointed! :cool:
Up to now, it seems the best, indeed. ;) (both Daves, btw)
Ali Tait
23-11-2009, 22:00
Hi Ali,
Whilst I agree with your sentiments, Croft gear can't really be viewed as "commercial" in the normal sense of the word. Glenn is essentially 'a bloke with a soldering iron', the same as you... The only difference is he's managed to form a small business selling his wares and been reasonably successful at it over the years.
His principles and the SPPV of his gear are completely at odds with that of other commercial manufacturers. You could set up an audio business tomorrow called 'Tait hi-fi' (or whatever) based on your current D.I.Y designs, and you'd be no different from Glenn :)
As much as I rate World Designs gear (and I do think it's excellent), I wouldn't necessarily say it was any better than what Glenn makes. More importantly, Dimitri doesn't appear to be entirely comfortable building stuff, so in this instance I don't feel that his interests are best served by the D.I.Y route.
Dimitri,
Go with Dave (DSJR's) suggestion and I promise you won't be disappointed! :cool:
Marco.
I don't disagree Marco,I'm sure the Croft amps are great.Only bit of Croft I've heard is your pre.I'd like to hear some of his amps sometime.I can recommend the WD stuff because I'm very familiar with it.I wouldn't recommend something I hadn't heard myself.
I wouldn't recommend something I hadn't heard myself.
Sensible man. That's what I like about you... Oh and yer fae Scotland, too! :)
Marco.
Ali Tait
23-11-2009, 22:09
:)
The Grand Wazoo
23-11-2009, 22:23
I'd like to hear one of these pre's juicing up an old KSA50 - You could do that for 1k - I wonder what that'd sound like?
I'd like to hear one of these pre's juicing up an old KSA50 - You could do that for 1k - I wonder what that'd sound like?
An '85 Krell ? That's what you mean ? With a fan (or was it the mkii) ? :scratch:
The Cyrus is on sale.
And Glenn accepted the exchange. Thank you all for your insight. :)
Nice one, Dimitri. I honestly don't think you'll be disappointed :)
Marco.
If I am, first I commit suicide, then I put a bomb at UPS, then I send a '78 ELP album to Andre, then... oh, wait : there's an error somewhere...
Well done, and I'm sure a 25 preamp would drive an old KSA50 to great heights. Not sure if the Krell might not need a cap change by now though...;)
alfie2902
25-11-2009, 21:30
It seems the deals done & I'm sure you'll be more than happy with the Croft pre/power. The couple of Croft amps I've heard have been very nice indeed!
I'm just going to back up Ali a little though. I bought a WAD KEL84 from him a couple of weeks ago, assembled by Ali I believe & tbh its a bloody awesome little amp :) (entry level kit aswell) It's just stunning for the money I paid for it! I've been enjoying it more & more over the short time I've had it! I think the value for money from these kits is just awesome & more people should look into DIY gear! It's opened my eyes :eyebrows:
Today I added a Audio Innovations L1 pre-amp that I picked up for pence & the sound quailty just took another step up!! I'm one happy alfieboy tonight
:gig: :cool:
Ok guys, just to say that as the Cyrus was sold a few days ago, payment done, I'm just waiting for Glenn's reception and his 25 pre+power sending... :)
Hope it won't take long, now, I'm waiting impatiently...
:beer: :champagne: :glug:
Am I the first one here to have a "normal" 25 pre ? :scratch:
I have only heard a Croft based system once but it was very nice I think you be very happy Demtri
Haselsh1
02-02-2010, 09:07
I am exceptionally pleased with my Croft pre/power combination. I've now had it for around two months; I bought the pre first with the power following just before Christmas. In comparison to my old WAD 300B PP I'd say that the Croft has a lot more guts and sounds a lot more powerful but it doesn't have the warmth and delicacy of the 300B. Also, the WAD 300B had a lot more 'air' and 'space' to the sound than the Croft but it hummed like a bugger and ran out of steam very quickly.
When playing CD, the Croft is extremely precise and finely etched with immaculate detail. The detail aspect is the most notable thing about the Croft combination when compared to my Audiolab 8000M's. You really do find yourself wondering where all of this musical detail is coming from. On vinyl the sound is much better with a nice warm softness that seems to be vinyl's trademark. There is even more detail from vinyl than CD when comparing the same recordings but the stereo depth is amazing on vinyl.
I'm quite sure you've made the best decision and that you have bought into the whole Croft ethos which can only be a good thing.
If you want a better line stage, Glenn does the "R" version with twin power supplies and with some important components upgraded.
You may also find some vintage tube rolling will sweeten the mid if you want it coloured that way.
"Nice warm softness?" The original recordings don't sound that way, so why would you want to add it???
Glenn emailed that he should finish the amps today !!! He is my hero ! :)
:surf:
technobear
03-02-2010, 23:54
Glenn emailed that he should finish the amps today !!! He is my hero ! :)
:surf:
Mine too! http://www.technobear.btinternet.co.uk/emoticons/thumbup.gif
Even though I have made one or two subtle modifications to his amp :o
The basic ingredients were the work of a true artesan http://www.technobear.btinternet.co.uk/emoticons/not_worthy.gif
Glenn certainly knows what he's doing :)
On the preamp side, his line stages are very good indeed, but the phono stages he builds are simply stunning, amazing value for money, and arguably in a league of their own. Rarely does one hear phono stages which eke out so much music from vinyl.
You just can't beat hand-made equipment with point-to-point wired (uncomplicated) circuits, built by someone with huge knowledge and experience, and a genuine passion for producing equipment that delivers where it matters most......
Dimitri, I almost feel excited for you - enjoy! :cool:
Marco.
Glenn certainly knows what he's doing :)
On the preamp side, his line stages are very good indeed, but the phono stages he builds are simply stunning, amazing value for money, and arguably in a league of their own. Rarely does one hear phono stages which eke out so much music from vinyl.
You just can't beat hand-made equipment with point-to-point wired (uncomplicated) circuits, built by someone with huge knowledge and experience, and a genuine passion for producing equipment that delivers where it matters most......
Dimitri, I almost feel excited for you - enjoy! :cool:
Marco.Well said ! :)
Although I find the phono stage marvelous, at the same time it's really a pity I don't have your (or some others' here) experience of different phono stages and fully appreciate the differences. Anyway...
I have already organized a listen for several people here in Montpellier. I'm sure at least one of my friends will get another pre (perhaps an "R") !! I'm near a very well known tube/hybrid amplifier manufacturer, so a lot of my acquaintances are hifi enthusiasts very sensitive to Glenn's designs.
Glenn deserves to be more widely known in France ! :)
EAR's tube stages seem to retain the valve "gentleness" and "warmth" for want of a better term. This has to be deliberately engineered in as Tim's old Nu-Vista and XP-100 designs for MF are totally (and ruthlessly in the case of the Nu-Vista) open and neutral to the source.
I've heard the Tron a few times and it's fabulous to my ears, but soooo expensive. I suggest the Phonote that Graham makes for Noteworthy Audio is pretty good too, but again it's nearly two grand...
I don't know the ANT phono stages, but I'm sure they're excellent. They do sell without preamp parts for the same price of Glenn's complete preamps as the designer and maker want to make a living out of them.
Remember that Glenn's products retail at what should be trade price at least and the Micro basic would sell for £700 if made by Rega and pushing two grand if made by Linn and Naim, only the Naim version would be in two boxes with a Burndy connecting the two..............
Even though I have made one or two subtle modifications to his amp :o
Ah ? Which ones ? :scratch:
technobear
05-02-2010, 12:21
Ah ? Which ones ? :scratch:
Bigger resistors on the blue LEDs.
Replaced the input selector with an Elna silver gold jobbie.
Replaced the Alps Blue volume pot with a Seiden/Takman Metal Film stepped attenuator.
Replaced the Ei ECC83's with cryo'd GE JAN 5751's.
I fitted the stepped attenuator after reading about Marco doing it to his Charisma X. The dear chap was right! Much less noise. Much greater transparency and detail. Pots are evil. Stepped attenuators rule :youtheman:
Hi Chris,
Bigger resistors on the blue LEDs.
Replaced the input selector with an Elna silver gold jobbie.
Interesting. I hadn't thought of doing that... What improvements did you perceive from carrying out the above - did you get a chance to analyse the effect of this separately from the rest of the mods you carried out?
I fitted the stepped attenuator after reading about Marco doing it to his Charisma X. The dear chap was right! Much less noise. Much greater transparency and detail. Pots are evil. Stepped attenuators rule :youtheman:
Glad to have been of help :)
The Takman stepped attenuator for me is a no-brainer; it's just miles more accurate - end of. Glenn hates stepped attenuators, but I reckon if he heard the effect of the Takman he'd endorse its use in his more expensive gear ;)
In a couple of weeks time I'm meeting him for a curry, so I'll be bringing down my CX for him to listen to :cool:
Marco.
technobear
05-02-2010, 13:31
Hi Chris,
Bigger resistors on the blue LEDs.
Replaced the input selector with an Elna silver gold jobbie.
Replaced the Alps Blue volume pot with a Seiden/Takman Metal Film stepped attenuator.
Interesting. I hadn't thought of doing that... What improvements did you perceive from carrying out the above - did you get a chance to analyse the effect of this separately from the rest of the mods you carried out?
Marco.
I decided I could live without the input indicator LEDs so I removed them and used the liberated resistors to dim the main LED.
The end result is that I can now look at the amp without being blinded :lolsign:
I replaced the selector switch at the same time as I replaced the volume pot so no independent assessment I'm afraid. It just seemed like the sensible thing to do while I was in there.
I still have it in mind to replace the bridge rectifier with Schottkys or Hexfreds at some point.
I don't think anyone makes 1M log mono stepped attenuators and i wouldn't have a clue where to start...
Ok, guys, :)
The Micro 25 and the Series 7 just arrived. (thank you Glenn ;))
They are warming up gradually. You'll have to go through another review for Sunday, I'm afraid... ;)
(moreover I'm the only one having a "standard" 25 pre, here in AoS, if I'm not mistaken)
hifi_dave
10-02-2010, 17:58
I've got one. Does that qualify ?....:scratch:
Now you've GOT to get an "R" to rub it in even more.........:lol:
I've got one. Does that qualify ?....:scratch:
Yes, of course. :)
Now you've GOT to get an "R" to rub it in even more.........:lol:
"R" is for "Rub", then ? :eyebrows:
By the way, the phono stage of this amp is... I'm speechless. :youtheman:
Glad you like it.........:) :respect: :peace:
Hi. Is there any with a Series 7, who have tried other ecc83 Valve?
best jan
I was going to say, "Why bother?" but that defeats the tweakyness in many of us here doesn't it?
hifi_dave
12-02-2010, 19:28
Life's too short.
technobear
12-02-2010, 20:46
Which ECC83 is in the Series 7?
It is a jj ecc83, so i think maybe a long plate Mullard ecc83 is better. I will also try a Telefunken ecc803s.
best jan
technobear
12-02-2010, 23:05
Remember that whichever valve Glenn has fitted, he will have voiced the amp around that valve so rolling may lead to changes in the frequency balance.
I have some JJ's and they are not bad in the Syntegra but then the Syntegra wasn't designed around JJ's (mine had Ei's but I'm not sure if they were the original fit). They have a nice top end, clean, clear and detailed.
For my Syntegra:
Of current production, the T.A.D.'s are the best match so far with a wider, deeper and more sharply focussed soundstage and deeper more powerful bass than the JJ's so you might like to experiment with these (they are relatively affordable and Watford Valves stock them (cryo's also available - mine are cryo's).
For me it's a toss up between these and NOS GE JAN 5751's. The latter are I think still available but the cryo's had sold out last time I looked.
As I said, what works in my amp may not give the same results in the Series 7 but, unlike Mullards and Telefunkens, the above alternatives are cheap enough to try.
Guys, sorry to interrupt your "tube rollin' conversation", it's just to say that these amps are really exceptional ! (I'm trying to gather superlatives but I'm failing at the moment... hope to find some soon...:o)
Hifi dave's series 25 had ECC83's with a small "C" on them (I forget the make)...
Glenn did rate Mullards, but I find the long plate ones a little too "valvey" and rich myself, judging by comments read elsewhere and my own long-plate ECC82's... When the Croft goes back (with absolute phase suitably inverted), I'll give them a try again..
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