View Full Version : Caiman Mods
Graybags
25-02-2010, 22:11
Had the Caiman for around 3 of weeks now and it's smoothed and deepened up nicely, now beginning to get itchy fingers for these mods. Was originally just going to stash them away for a few weeks but not sure I can help myself now. Party time :cocktail:
Thanks Dave again for going above the call of duty in putting this together and Martin, Ron and Stan for offering up the Rubies. :grouphug:
Cracking! :cheers:
:mex: :mex: :mex: :mex:
Stratmangler
25-02-2010, 22:18
Had the Caiman for around 3 of weeks now and it's smoothed and deepened up nicely, now beginning to get itchy fingers for these mods. Was originally just going to stash them away for a few weeks but not sure I can help myself now. Party time :cocktail:
Thanks Dave again for going above the call of duty in putting this together and Martin, Ron and Stan for offering up the Rubies. :grouphug:
Cracking! :cheers:
:mex: :mex: :mex: :mex:
I'll give you some very sound advice - put your components in a safe place and enjoy your Caiman unchanged for a while more.
When you take your soldering iron to it you'll have to undergo a further running in period, and it'll not be a quick process.
Just my £ 0.02 worth.
Chris:)
I'll give you some very sound advice - put your components in a safe place and enjoy your Caiman unchanged for a while more.
When you take your soldering iron to it you'll have to undergo a further running in period, and it'll not be a quick process.
Just my £ 0.02 worth.
Chris:)
Although I'm a known fiddler:whistle: this is extremely good advice ;)
StanleyB
26-02-2010, 08:30
The PCB I use for modification has not been in a case for months. It saves time taking it apart every time I get a bright idea:rolleyes:.
Given that the Rubycon non-polar seem to have achieved "unobtainium" status, are the Nichicon non-polar worth a go instead ?
Other polar types seem more of a sideways idea to me, though someone seemed happy with Silmic II.
StanleyB
26-02-2010, 14:22
With so many TC-7520s and Caimans out there, it is no surprise if we created a world shortage of the Rubycons:eyebrows:.
As long as the caps are chunky 9(i.e. have a good diameter), they'll have enough of the 'right ingredients'. The skinny non-polarized ones are more for looks than for action.
Given that the Rubycon non-polar seem to have achieved "unobtainium" status, are the Nichicon non-polar worth a go instead ?
The green Nichicon MUSE caps are fine and are the same size as the Rubycons.
Covenant
26-02-2010, 17:44
Jimmy at Tirna has been in touch to say that he is willing to do the upgrades. He has had some trouble with e-mails so apologies to anyone who has not had a reply.
He wants to do a trial run on one dac to see if there are any problems so dont send them off just yet.:champagne:
HighFidelityGuy
26-02-2010, 21:01
I didn't run into any serious problems when I installed the Murrata's, Rubycon's and Wilma's the other day. The 5V reg was a bit more tricky to de-solder than the 10V one for some reason and the Rubycon caps are a bit wider than ones they replace which makes them a bit tricky to squeeze together. Probably the trickiest part is removing the opamp board for the first time due to the hot melt glue and sticky pad. That takes quite a lot of patients and care. Other than that it's pretty straight forward so I'm sure Tirna won't have any problems.
Good luck with the upgrades everyone! :)
it is no surprise if we created a world shortage of the Rubycons
and the expletive deleted Muratas, Farnell UK seem to be the only ones with 7805 but don't have 7812 and want 20 squids min order and Farnell here have the 7812 ex US at no extra charge (though not cheap either). - grrrrrr - my rotten timing again - might have to repaint the bathroom instead.
StanleyB
27-02-2010, 06:09
It was easy to foresee. The LM4562, THS4032, and WM8716 all experienced a similar shortage once readers of AoS around the world got wind of certain mods;).
Peter Galbavy
27-02-2010, 08:16
Sounds a bit odd. Surely the manufacturers of this stuff, esp DACs, must do runs of 10,000 or more to make it economical. I guess speeading the supply across global distributors etc. does water this down somewhat...
StanleyB
27-02-2010, 08:51
Manufacturers don't manufacture such components without any orders. If I want 1K of the WM8716 IC it takes several weeks before Wolfson can deliver my own production run. The world wide 'off the shelf' stock might be less than 100 pieces at any one time. In years gone by, IC manufacturers would make huge quantities of chips, only to find them out of date or out of favour within next to no time. So now they are more careful.
I quick update on my impression of the upgraded regs...
Fitted them this morning and am listening to them as I type this out.
Since everyone loves photos, here they are in there home :)
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/7845/p1020727.jpg
First impressions are very good indeed. The noise level has dropped quite considerably and the amount of detail I can now hear and the stereo imaging/positioning of instruments is quite staggering. Don't get me wrong, the stock Caiman stunned me no end when I first heard it, but this is stunning me once again :eyebrows:
I dont think I have quite the keen ear that many people on this forum do with regards to picking out differences, but this is certainly audible.
I seriously, cannot wait now to get this baby in its new home (my Caiman case project for those that dont know) when its finished and perform the final major (ish) modification.
HighFidelityGuy
02-03-2010, 14:20
I noticed similar improvements to detail and imaging/positioning after installing the regs and caps. The bass seemed a little reduced at first but that's gradually come back now as the new components have burned in. I'm now looking forward to trying some different opamps again to see how they sound. If I could just find a little extra sweetness in the mid-range I'd be a very happy man. That's about the only thing I'd like to improve a bit now. :)
Got my Dac upgraded by Jummy Dripps at Tirna yestrday, an hours drive away from me so I took the dac down myself...couple of hours later it was done.
Great service, good guy..highly recommended.
Anyways, plugged it back in yesterday and left it cooking overnight.
Regarding "burn in"...
Ive experienced myself this when fitting new OpAmps, and I wonder if this will be the case with the Rubycons and the Mutara Regs?
Sounds great just now, definately a step up, but wonder if theres more to come....
Thanks.
oh, just a random thought.
Are we nearing the point of diminishing returns now with the upgrades?
StanleyB
13-03-2010, 18:50
oh, just a random thought.
Are we nearing the point of diminishing returns now with the upgrades?
Looks like it. If the responses are favourable, I might consider adding some of the more affordable mods to the TC-7520.
Stan,
I appreciate the Caiman is pretty affordable as is, but have you got together any upgrades for it that could be fitted before delivery, or even made standard now?
What is it that the modders actually want? I would ask for absolute truth to the source material, but it seems that others are about increasing/decreasing warmth, or adding more "deeeeetail" forther up.. I mean no disrespect to these modders, but I for one don't wish to put a spotlight on one frequency area, rather, I'd prefer an unstressed clarity over the whole range with a different "sound" (if there) with each recording...
StanleyB
13-03-2010, 19:43
From a commercial point of view I would rather add the mods to the TC-7520, instead of to the Caiman. The TC-7520 is put together on a production line, which saves cost, and would therefore only add a small proportion to the overal price I reckon.
The Caiman is tedious to build due to the various mods that need to be added 'by hand' to each one made. The one mod I would not consider adding is the Murata regs. They are not cheap, and by the time you add in production cost etc., the price at the point of sale would have shot up to a different price band. I would leave those bits as a mod.
It takes a couple of months to go from design to finished goods. So if we can come to a quick consensus, maybe we can have a production based prototype ready for testing in the summer, and the final version in the autumn/winter.
The Caiman is tedious to build due to the various mods that need to be added 'by hand' to each one made.
I had not appreciated, Stan, that the Caiman was a hand modded 7520. (Modded by the man himself.)
I bought mine and have run it as I got it - well, when I got the new power supply, I ran it with that.
Sounds absolutely splendid to me, Stan, as you sent it to me.
I just enjoy the music.
You modders can mod all you like.
When Stan comes up with another very significant product I may buy it and sell my No 2 box - a 7510.
But for now, I just listen. I just enjoy the music.
StanleyB
13-03-2010, 20:35
When Stan comes up with another very significant product I may buy it and sell my No 2 box - a 7510.
Whilst a mention is made of the TC-7510: the last time I updated that one is quite a few years ago. I still get many requests for an upgraded version from customers who don't need the USB, or even the headphone amp, and prefer the extra TOSLINK input.
The price point of the TC-7510 is also an important consideration. The market is being flooded with £100 priced DACs with direct shipping from the Far East. Before that price band was hit upon by the new arrivals, the TC-7510, Zero DAC, and Zhaulu D2.5 were the main contenders for many potential buyers. The main thing the TC-7510 is lacking is 192KHz support, and the option to try out other opamps. I reckon that a TC-7510 MK7 seems a logical product to develop.
And the input (S/PDIF) receiver of the Caiman can be changed or not ? :scratch:
The one mod I would not consider adding is the Murata regs. They are not cheap, and by the time you add in production cost etc., the price at the point of sale would have shot up to a different price band. I would leave those bits as a mod.
.
Having had them and the Rubycons running in my modded Dac, I can safely now say a different PERFORMANCE band too...
Holy crap!
:eek:
technobear
13-03-2010, 21:18
And the input (S/PDIF) receiver of the Caiman can be changed or not ? :scratch:
Yep, I'd like to see better jitter rejection on a future product. The Caiman is quite transport dependent. It sounds sublime with the Transporter which leaves the Squeezebox, CD player and HiFace trailing in its dust by some considerable distance.
I would like to have one of my Caimans Murata'd though if the facility were to be made officially available (i.e. without voiding the warranty).
StanleyB
13-03-2010, 21:19
And the input (S/PDIF) receiver of the Caiman can be changed or not ? :scratch:
Unfortunately not an easy job.
There is a two TOSLINK version of the Caiman available to order though.
Those Murata regs use very high frequency *switching* to do their work. I take it that there is no deleterious effect on the rest of the DAC (must be, or they wouldn't sound as good..)
Having had them and the Rubycons running in my modded Dac, I can safely now say a different PERFORMANCE band too...
Holy crap!
:eek:
That was my reaction too...Very nice improvements indeed :eyebrows:
This modding malarkey is becoming more and more tempting by the day. :lol:
StanleyB
14-03-2010, 09:57
Yep, I'd like to see better jitter rejection on a future product.
I myself don't have any audible jitter issues with my system setup, but I shall put it on the wish list for you:).
I myself don't have any audible jitter issues with my system setup, but I shall put it on the wish list for you:).
I'm like Chris : I don't have "issues" (as you put it) but I notice some differences when switching digital cables.
I didn't do any careful AB tests, anyway.
technobear
14-03-2010, 11:18
I myself don't have any audible jitter issues with my system setup, but I shall put it on the wish list for you:).
Would this be because you haven't tried a Transporter?
This is one of those cases where it sounds like everything is OK until you hear something which is better and then you have one of those OMG moments :lol:
I thought my speakers were fabulous until I fitted the Mundorf silver cap. NOW they are fabulous. Before I only thought they were.
Same with the stepped attenuator in the amp.
Same moving from SB/HiFace/CD player to a Transporter.
Covenant
14-03-2010, 11:26
I am hoping for an OMG moment when the Touch arrives.
In fact do we have an OMG thread?
Would this be because you haven't tried a Transporter?
This is one of those cases where it sounds like everything is OK until you hear something which is better and then you have one of those OMG moments :lol:
I thought my speakers were fabulous until I fitted the Mundorf silver cap. NOW they are fabulous. Before I only thought they were.
Same with the stepped attenuator in the amp.
Same moving from SB/HiFace/CD player to a Transporter.
Hi, good post.
Can't remember though, is your Caiman modded? How far from "stock" is it...mutaras..Rubycons...custom PSU?
Also, what's the comparison between the stock Transporter vs Transporter thru Caiman?
(as.it's what your using I'm Guessing better :))
ta.
Stratmangler
14-03-2010, 13:19
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=62300&postcount=245
technobear
14-03-2010, 13:35
Can't remember though, is your Caiman modded?
No it is not modded. I am using a Caiman power supply with it.
Good read, thanks for the link.
put a smile on my face, roll on the squeezebox Touch!
Those Murata regs use very high frequency *switching* to do their work. I take it that there is no deleterious effect on the rest of the DAC (must be, or they wouldn't sound as good..)
I never thought of this before...it IS a switcher..
Hmnn, wonder why this particular Reg was chosen as the supertweak and not a non switching variety?
Sounds great regardless, but just wondering.
I'm not sure what the Dexa regulators I used are (I think they're analogue), but they sound bloody good.
http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=70
However, there is nothing wrong with switching when well executed.
Can, please, someone explain in simple words what is this "switching" you're talking about ? :scratch:
I guess
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_regulator#Switching_regulators
Ah ok, thanks Brian, I understand now. ;)
dave2010
15-03-2010, 13:28
Would it be possible to have ADC capability added to the Caiman or similar DAC? Clearly it should be, but whether it could be done cheaply or effectively I don't know. For example - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Successive_approximation_ADC
Stratmangler
15-03-2010, 13:51
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4887&highlight=stanleyb
£30 for a regulator!
Have a look at PFM
About £3 - £4
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i239/saxonsex/Superreg005.jpg
Erm, that's based on a 7805 which is what we've been getting away from.
The PH regs I fitted in the Sabre dac are just under 30 quid a piece for the small ones, they are expensive compared to standard three pin types, the main advantage with the more expensive ones is that their impedance is much lower over a far wider bandwidth, their much better at rejecting PS noise and very low noise on their output, this might not seem a big deal but in some circuits this can bring a huge gain in the way the device performs and sounds where as things like op-amp swapping and cap rolling tends to alter signature
A gyrator infront of a standard reg (as seen in the pic above) can be a cheap and pretty effective way of cleaning the crap up on the input, you still have the standard three pin reg though so the gains tend to be smaller
People are reporting good results with the Murata switching regs Stan recommended so it seems these are a worthy upgrade over the three pin types too and not too expensive
Interesting: I'd prefer the gyrator to be after the standard reg.
Interesting: I'd prefer the gyrator to be after the standard reg.
You mean like the Teddy regs? ;)
Only downside is you increase output impedance, the results then vary depending on the load it see's
You mean like the Teddy regs? ;)
Only downside is you increase output impedance, the results then vary depending on the load it see's
Yes, agreed, however I'd prefer the reduction in noise by placing the gyrator after the noisy regulator. You can always increase the overall welly of the circuit to try to keep the current capability and output impedance low.
The Teddy's regs (SuperTeddy) are nice, I'm considering building one to play with it, perhaps to feed the Caiman.
I tried the smaller TR's in a few other dacs mainly output stages, I added a CRD on the output or a simple loading resistor when used with say op-amps. I couldn't get on with them tbh but please don't let that put you off, their pretty cheap to try and a lot of folks like what they do
I've not tried the super TR's yet
Which audible effects can I expect, if I only put the rubycons in, without the murata mod?
Ron
Greater clarity and improved depth of sound. I did the Rubies first and had them in for about a month before doing the Murata's.
Regards
Chris
Covenant
17-03-2010, 10:17
My 7520 with Wolfson/4562 op-amps has just arrived back from Tirna after the Rubycon, WIMA/ Murata upgrade and sounds stunning-this is with the old PS in at the moment.
Just to confirm Tirna's fix only prices:
Regulator upgrade £20
Rubycons/WIMA £15
Insured delivery £8.50
Then add vat on to the lot.
Bargain or what?
StanleyB
17-03-2010, 10:33
I'll put the Caiman PSU on the order page my site in April for those who have done the Murata mods.
A few TC-7520 beta testers have been trying out the Caiman PSU on their unmodified TC-7520 to see if there are any reliability issues.
My 7520 with Wolfson/4560 op-amps has just arrived back from Tirna after the Rubycon, WIMA/ Murata upgrade and sounds stunning-this is with the old PS in at the moment.
Just to confirm Tirna's fix only prices:
Regulator upgrade £20
Rubycons/WIMA £15
Insured delivery £8.50
Then add vat on to the lot.
Bargain or what?
Jerry, I've had mine on since Friday.
Sounded fab "out of the box"..now a week later I can say that there IS a case of the new components running in and sounding better.
Watch out for it.
Id expected an improvement - yeah, but this sounds like a different product to what I had before the upgrades..
There is practically NO mush in the background..dead quiet.
A rock solid "walk around" soundstage and a very VERY detailed sound make for a hair tingling listen.
Reminds me actually (again) of a Marantz KI63 Sig/ Densen Beat100 combo I heard years ago...so "real" sounding...just grabs your attention.
The only thing I'd like to try is running the Dac with Stans proper Caiman power supply. I'm currently using the Maplins variable one at 15V...I know there is a lot more to a PSU than just its Voltage output so maybe my current PSU is putting a lot of noise into the Dac? I dont know, but its one of those little niggles I'd like to address.
That would be the last little "could it be made better?" niggle I'd have with my Dac. (but dont quote me on that! :))
Stan, its good your making it available again for us modders, cheers.
Playing around with opamps again this morning...I was running the AD826 pre upgrades with NO amp in the headphone socket.
The sound was better for some reason with no headphone opamp in place?
Now its the opposite. Put a LM4562 in HPA socket and the sound changed for the better?
Go figure.
Currently running Caiman spec LM4562 in both sockets...but going back to try OP2132 and AD826 (which I found far better than 4562 pre upgrades).
Keep y'all posted.
Sounds astonighing - really - a very worthwhile upgrade and thanks to Jerry for the 11th hour reminder that the group buy on the components was about to close.
Stan - for a future model, have you thought about using +/- power supply rails so that the op-amps can be run DC coupled, avoiding the coupling caps altogether? You could then more easily provide balanced outputs too.
Just a thought!
StanleyB
17-03-2010, 14:56
Stan - for a future model, have you thought about using +/- power supply rails so that the op-amps can be run DC coupled, avoiding the coupling caps altogether? You could then more easily provide balanced outputs too.
I have been thinking about a lot of things;). Those ideas are for something a bit more upmarket (for me anyhow). The only problem I still have, but that I can't solve, is a simple to implement High Speed USB Audio chip.
Sorry to ask but why are balanced outputs an advantage over the fixed / variable RCA outs? The variable out provides a great preamp and as I have found betters most of the preamps out there.
Regards
The balanced output could be both fixed and variable.
Balanced outputs come into their own for long cable runs which are not usually needed in domestic installations.
Many active speakers have balanced inputs but can usually be driven from an unbalanced output.
If the entire DAC design is balanced, as already noted, DC coupling may be used reducing the number of capacitors used.
All other things being equal, balanced connection sounds superior provided the connected equipment is internally balanced in design. For an entire system, balanced offers extremely low noise, resistance to RFI pickup and, to my ears, better sound. It is not just for studio use and there are planty of components, especially in the high end, that offer XLR connectors.
Greater clarity and improved depth of sound. I did the Rubies first and had them in for about a month before doing the Murata's.
Regards
Chris
thanks Chris,
that's exactly what I needed to know.
Ron
Wondering if anyone has either thought of or tried any mods to the digital inputs ?
Specifically thinking of changing coax connectors for BNC and perhaps fitting a digital pulse transformer.
Any input from anyone on these ideas welcomed.
I changed one of the RCA's to a 75R BNC, one of the nice and useful things with these dacs is that it has no shortage of inputs.
I've not added a pulse transformer on the input yet, choice would be a 1:1 Newava
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj220/kingbusoms/bnc.jpg
I changed one of the RCA's to a 75R BNC, one of the nice and useful things with these dacs is that it has no shortage of inputs.
I've not added a pulse transformer on the input yet, choice would be a 1:1 Newava
I have been thinking of doing the same thing with BNC's - Can you tell me please Leo, what part have you used (and where from)? It seems to fit very well.
I have been thinking of doing the same thing with BNC's - Can you tell me please Leo, what part have you used (and where from)? It seems to fit very well.
I fitted what I had to hand, it was brought from Maplin quite a while ago
code number for the 75ohm is FE31J (the code was still on the packet) http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=1569
The only problem is I had to mess about and find a plastic washer to isolate the metal body from the Caimans chassis, it was just something I had kicking about.
Maplin do a BNC socket which is insulated , unfortunately its 50ohm:wanker:
BTW the screw for the original RCA now serves no purpose, I just srewed it into a nut to cover the hole up
Thanks for that Leo, the Newava is the one I would use since I still have a number of them - minimum order was 10 IIRC.
Have you noted any particular improvement with the BNC socket fitted?
T
I fitted what I had to hand, it was brought from Maplin quite a while ago
code number for the 75ohm is FE31J (the code was still on the packet) http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=1569
OK Leo, cheers for that mate - I'll pick up a couple next time i'm passing.
I'm doing this mod for convenience only, not for any sonic gain.
Ken
Just a subtle difference imo with this dac, some of my sources are BNC and the odd one is RCA so I prefer to keep the dac and source sockets the same:)
apmusson
23-03-2010, 19:14
Hi,
Had a chat with Jimmy from Tirna Electronics yesterday. He is a very nice chap.
I was talking to him about the use of THS4032 opamps in the modded (caps / regs) Caiman. He said that he has discovered a slight instability in the THS4032 feedback loop that manifests itself in about half of the ones he's tested. This shows itself as a distortion in the loud sections of the music. I have experienced this but always thought that this effect was caused by electrostratic damage (caused by my cackhandedness).
He says that he has some ideas how to correct this instability but hasnt had a chance to try them out yet.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to getting my Caiman back from him tomorrow. I think I'll try it out with my existing LM4562HA metal can opamps for a while.
Ade
StanleyB
23-03-2010, 21:08
The LM4562HA sounds almost the same as the THS40432CD. I use both types of opamps in different DACs.
apmusson
26-03-2010, 16:27
Stan,
I've had the modded caiman running for 3 days now. I am happy with the LM4562HA. I am very very very happy with my Caiman.
Ade
An update to the mods on my Caiman :eyebrows:
Still needs a little time to burn in though but there are some subtle improvements thus far.
I cannot believe how good my Caiman is now, it sounds absolutely sublime. I'm picking up more and more details and much improved imaging all the time. :)
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/2755/p1020817m.jpg
Carson,
Like you I've done the Voltage Regulators and the Rubycon. Interested to know what Elna Silmic II caps/value/voltage you put in which circuit locations. Please list them for us ?
Did you do all the mods in one go or did you burn-in and listen before adding the next mod. What did the Elna upgrades do by comparison the the Regulators/Rubycons
Frizzup
I have attached an edited version of my last photo, only this time with the values for the replaced capacitors and their locations.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4973/p1020817description.jpg
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6986/p1020812description.jpg
The caps I used are all Elna Silmic II, and are 220uF 25v, 100uF 16v & 10uF 16v.
The swap was pretty simple and straight forward. The only real complications were:
Ensuring electrolytic replacements for the tantalum capacitors (larger yellow ones around the DAC chip) were the right way around. :eyebrows:
Ensuring the remaining 3 significantly larger replacement caps fitted nicely into the case and didn't poke out of the top. :doh:
The mods were performed as below, and in the following order:
Rubycon Caps
Murata Regs (About 3-4 months after Rubycon caps)
Elna Silmic II Caps (About 1 1/2 months after Murata Regs)
The Elna caps have now had about 4 hrs of burn in time, though I noticed a different after just 1 hr of burn in.)
As for the improvements...I am not sure if it is me, but the Elna caps have made what I would consider a rather significant improvement in both details and depth of music. :eek:
Even with my rather cheap Goldring DR150 headphones, I am picking up more and more details, recording echo's, minute string details on acoustic guitars, etc.
Honestly.....I think this has been a worthwhile upgrade :)
ZebuTheOxen
29-03-2010, 19:50
Top banana!
I'm getting more and more tempted... Where will the madness end! :lol:
Covenant
29-03-2010, 20:25
Oh no! I thought it would be a few months before we were discussing more mods. I won't be able to rest until I get this one done. It all too much......:mental:
I'm looking up Elna Silmics now...
Wow, this little mod of mine (can I claim this to be my idea :lol:) has got more of a reaction that I thought.
The thing is, James, some of us know what the regulator and coupling cap mods achieved and you've just given us the hunger for another step change like that. So thanks :)
Elnas now ordered.
Hi Martin,
Where did you order them from - quite tricky to find them.
Regards
Chris
I always get my quality components from Parts Connexion in Canada (including the rather nice Dexa regulators that I'm using in the Caiman):
http://www.partsconnexion.com/
You can get everything you need from here:
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/
You can get everything you need from here:
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/
I see they do the Dexa (NewClassD) regulators too. Highly recommended!
Just to comfirm the USUAL question I guess...
My 7520 has the Wolfsen Dac chip, the Mutara Regs and the Rubicon/Wilma Caps upgrade.
I'm running my Dac with a 15V Maplin PSU.
I take it there shouldnt be any problem modding my "caimanised" 7520 with James' latest mod?
Thanks.
If so..... :)
Going to pull the trigger on this one, can one of the guys who have ordered from Hificollective be good enough to confirm I've worked this out right?
(I've went through to the Checkout stage to get costs)
Order Code______ (μF)___(Vdc)_______Price Exvat___No. Off _____ COST
ELNAS-035 _________10____ 16___________£0.61__________8_________£4.88
ELNAS-095 _________100____16___________£1.60__________1_____ ___£1.60
ELNAS-125 _________220____25___________£2.44__________2_____ ___£4.88
Sub-Total: £11.36
Postage to UK: £3.84
includes V.A.T: £2.26
TOTAL: £15.20
Thanks.
Gaz. :)
Gaz - from memory that looks correct to me.
Just to comfirm the USUAL question I guess...
My 7520 has the Wolfsen Dac chip, the Mutara Regs and the Rubicon/Wilma Caps upgrade.
I'm running my Dac with a 15V Maplin PSU.
I take it there shouldnt be any problem modding my "caimanised" 7520 with James' latest mod?
Thanks.
If so..... :)
Going to pull the trigger on this one, can one of the guys who have ordered from Hificollective be good enough to confirm I've worked this out right?
(I've went through to the Checkout stage to get costs)
Order Code______ (μF)___(Vdc)_______Price Exvat___No. Off _____ COST
ELNAS-035 _________10____ 16___________£0.61__________8_________£4.88
ELNAS-095 _________100____16___________£1.60__________1_____ ___£1.60
ELNAS-125 _________220____25___________£2.44__________2_____ ___£4.88
Sub-Total: £11.36
Postage to UK: £3.84
includes V.A.T: £2.26
TOTAL: £15.20
Thanks.
Gaz. :)
All looks correct to me. Only difference when I ordered, was I bought one extra 100uF and 220uF cap, and 2 extra 10uF caps as spares if I need them. :lol:
Good stuff guys, thanks.
Just wondering though...was there a reason you picked the Elna Caps and not Blackgate's or whatever?
I read up a bit on them and it reminded me of the "which Opamp is best?" debate!
Good stuff guys, thanks.
Just wondering though...was there a reason you picked the Elna Caps and not Blackgate's or whatever?
I read up a bit on them and it reminded me of the "which Opamp is best?" debate!
The only real reason for me is that Blackgate caps are becoming harder to find since they have gone out of business. Elna caps are generally considered to be of similar quality and still being manufactured, so I went with those instead. :)
Also, call me OCD :lol:, but I'd like as many of the caps to be of the same manufacturer and model, both for aesthetic purposes and consistency.
For those trying out the latest mod... I'd love you hear your opinions on the improvement and whether it is just me or not.
I'd love you hear your opinions on the improvement and whether it is just me or not.
I'll let you know as soon as I've received the components and performed the upgrade.
By the way, I like Sanyo Os-Cons a lot too, but they're difficult to find in all the values needed.
Looking forward to this one....
TOTAL: £15.20
Hmm, I've just got my invoice from Parts Connexion, $13.78 including shipping. And there won't be any duty or tax as it's under £18.
apmusson
01-04-2010, 10:00
I've just ordered the ELNAs from Parts Connexion too. Not sure how long they'll take to deliver, but I'm in no rush... I've just replaced the Caiman PSU with the Maplin Linear one that Stan recommended and am enjoying that for a while.
Ade
Hmm, I've just got my invoice from Parts Connexion, $13.78 including shipping. And there won't be any duty or tax as it's under £18.
Even better.
Goes to show its worth shopping around. ;)
any updates on the new mods...improvements n stuff?
HighFidelityGuy
08-04-2010, 22:27
I've just been reading up on this new Elna cap mod and having a look inside my Caiman and I've noticed something odd. Sorry if this has already been mentioned but I've noticed that there seems to be more than one circuit layout in Caiman's owned by AoS members.
I've managed to find a couple of pictures that show this:
This is MartinT's Caiman (which matches mine):
http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/StanDAC.jpg
And heres James' (Carson):
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/2755/p1020817m.jpg
If you look to the left of where the left ribbon meets the PCB, you'll notice that MartinT's has an extra electrolytic cap and resistor. That's the only change I can see but there may be others.
Does anyone know what the story is on this? :scratch:
Cheers. :)
I noticed this too. Perhaps one of them is an older version and the other a newer one. I bought my Caiman (the bottom one in the post above) November last year so could be a newer version....maybe.
Perhaps Stan could enlighten us on this difference?
I wouldn't worry too much over it;)
HighFidelityGuy
09-04-2010, 12:42
I wouldn't worry too much over it;)
I'm not worried, just interested as to what the extra components do and why they were added or removed from the design depending on which came first.
It could be relevant to the Elna cap mod as the owners of with Caimans that have the extra cap may need/want to upgrade that one as well.
Obviously I don't expect Stan to divulge trade secrets but some basic info would be appreciated so we know if there's any point upgrading the extra cap.
Cheers. :)
Any news on other peoples experience with the latest mod?
Got my caps, just haven't had time to perform the mod yet and too busy enjoying my new Dynavector arm.
StanleyB
14-04-2010, 19:38
I've just been reading up on this new Elna cap mod and having a look inside my Caiman and I've noticed something odd. Sorry if this has already been mentioned but I've noticed that there seems to be more than one circuit layout in Caiman's owned by AoS members.
I've managed to find a couple of pictures that show this:
If you look to the left of where the left ribbon meets the PCB, you'll notice that MartinT's has an extra electrolytic cap and resistor. That's the only change I can see but there may be others.
Does anyone know what the story is on this?
I try mods out all the time. But some might turn out to be of no value, in which case I would remove them at some stage. Can't remember what that mod was supposed to do though. Couldn't have been important.
Thanks for the mod with the caps Carson, completed mine this weekend using SILMIC II's and "WOW" even in the first few hours the change is sublime, detail, broader dynamic range, and presence. This mod was done on top of the previous Murata Regaulators and Rubycon output caps I did last month. This Caiman never ceases to impress how it makes quite dramtic improvements for very few dollars and a couple of hours DIY.
Seeing as I was in the "mod mood" I also followed Leo's example and swapped coaxial 2 to a 75ohm BNC connector.
The final mod for the weekend was the most dramatic...............
I swapped the 5 blue LED's on the front panel for red ones....looks the bees knees in the rack as everything else is red LED.
I thought I detected an improved soundstage with the red LED's over the blue :lolsign:
Frizzup;)
Covenant
18-04-2010, 07:50
Thanks for the mod with the caps Carson, completed mine this weekend using SILMIC II's and "WOW" even in the first few hours the change is sublime, detail, broader dynamic range, and presence. This mod was done on top of the previous Murata Regaulators and Rubycon output caps I did last month. This Caiman never ceases to impress how it makes quite dramtic improvements for very few dollars and a couple of hours DIY.
Seeing as I was in the "mod mood" I also followed Leo's example and swapped coaxial 2 to a 75ohm BNC connector.
The final mod for the weekend was the most dramatic...............
I swapped the 5 blue LED's on the front panel for red ones....looks the bees knees in the rack as everything else is red LED.
I thought I detected an improved soundstage with the red LED's over the blue :lolsign:
Frizzup;)
Thats great. How do the SILMIC II's compare in price to the Elna's?
Whoops-forget that-just spotted that SILMIC II's are Elna's
Thanks for the mod with the caps Carson, completed mine this weekend using SILMIC II's and "WOW" even in the first few hours the change is sublime, detail, broader dynamic range, and presence. This mod was done on top of the previous Murata Regulators and Rubycon output caps I did last month. This Caiman never ceases to impress how it makes quite dramatic improvements for very few dollars and a couple of hours DIY.
I'm glad it wasn't just me who noticed a nice improvement then :)
StanleyB
19-04-2010, 08:10
Anyone got some of those 47uF Rubycon caps left over? I need about 6 pieces so that I can try the mod out on the TC-7520 and report back on my findings.
I have about 16 left I think. Would you like me to send you some?
Anyone got some of those 47uF Rubycon caps left over? I need about 6 pieces so that I can try the mod out on the TC-7520 and report back on my findings.
Can safely say in my case with my modded 7520 ("Caimen Spec" Wolfsen Dac, upgraded opamps AND Mutara Regs and Rubycon caps) that it's a very different product from the original 7520.
The 7520 is great, modded it's sublime. The latest Rubicon cap/mutaras was at least as big a jump to me as the Wolfsen dac and upgraded opamps, probably more.
Smoother yet far clearer and "real" sounding. More high end sounding.
There's another round of mods on this thread..will get that sorted hopefully before I get my Sb Touch... :)
StanleyB
19-04-2010, 10:33
I have about 16 left I think. Would you like me to send you some?
Yes please:).
Yes please:).
Ok Stan, whats your address and I'll post you some. :)
Covenant
19-04-2010, 12:31
Can safely say in my case with my modded 7520 ("Caimen Spec" Wolfsen Dac, upgraded opamps AND Mutara Regs and Rubycon caps) that it's a very different product from the original 7520.
The 7520 is great, modded it's sublime. The latest Rubicon cap/mutaras was at least as big a jump to me as the Wolfsen dac and upgraded opamps, probably more.
Smoother yet far clearer and "real" sounding. More high end sounding.
There's another round of mods on this thread..will get that sorted hopefully before I get my Sb Touch... :)
Er Gaz...before you get your Touch?:mental: What about yer old mates hey?:scratch: Could you order for the three of us? You better wait until this volcano business is over if you are sending off to the USA for the parts.
Hey Jerry..
No need to send off to the States for these parts...
can get them in the UK.
See earlier on in the thread old chum! :mental:
The Touch....thats another thread.
Question for James - did you also replace the 4.7uf 50v cap marked below?
http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv12/Getgaff/BDACCaiman.jpg
Thanks,
Gareth.
Question for James - did you also replace the 4.7uf 50v cap marked below?
Thanks,
Gareth.
I had initially planned too yes, however i ordered a 0.47uf cap instead of a 4.7uf one so haven't as of yet.
Done the Elna Silmic electrolytic mods, all ready for a proper listen. Previous mods are Nichicon MUSE coupling caps, Dexa regulators and am running my Superteddy-based linear power supply set to 16V into the Caiman. Photo of the finished DAC:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8204/8223587006_c64e10fcff_b.jpg
Audio report soon!
Nearly forgot, my thanks to Carson for a great post on the electrolytic mods.
Nice :) .
I've just placed my Elna Silmic II & Nichicon caps order with Parts Connexion but the Muratas are out-of-stock everywhere I look.
but the Muratas are out-of-stock everywhere I look.
You didn't fancy the Dexas? Parts Connexion sell them.
StanleyB
21-04-2010, 20:45
..but the Muratas are out-of-stock everywhere I look.
I have mentioned before that as soon as there is a popular mod out for the TC-7520 and the Caiman, a worldwide shortage of said parts occur:lol:.
Looking forward to hearing what my modded Dac can REALLY do with a better digital transport.
I've found the 7520/caiman to be very dependant on whatever source you stick in it.
Just got my SB Touch today.... :)
Stan, can the Bdac play 24/96 files without an issue?
Suspect it can, but just wanna check.
Ta.
Done the Elna Silmic electrolytic mods, all ready for a proper listen. Previous mods are Nichicon MUSE coupling caps, Dexa regulators and am running my Superteddy-based linear power supply set to 16V into the Caiman. Photo of the finished DAC:
http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/Beresford Caiman.jpg
Audio report soon!
Nearly forgot, my thanks to Carson for a great post on the electrolytic mods.
Those Nichicon caps look very "bling" compared to teh battleship grey Rubycons! :)
Looking forward to hearing what my modded Dac can REALLY do with a better digital transport.
I've found the 7520/caiman to be very dependant on whatever source you stick in it.
I've been deliberately performing my Caiman listening tests using a bog-ordinary Sony Blu-ray player as a CD transport via co-ax. This combo costing, what, £600 is now seriously challenging my £6000 SACD player. It gets close enough to be acceptable for music (and I'm picky). I only actually use the Caiman for Sky HD and Blu-ray.
Those Nichicon caps look very "bling" compared to teh battleship grey Rubycons! :)
Should I replace the lid with a perspex viewing window? ;)
Done the Elna Silmic electrolytic mods, all ready for a proper listen. Previous mods are Nichicon MUSE coupling caps, Dexa regulators and am running my Superteddy-based linear power supply set to 16V into the Caiman. Photo of the finished DAC:
http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/Beresford Caiman.jpg
Audio report soon!
Nearly forgot, my thanks to Carson for a great post on the electrolytic mods.
My pleasure :), just reporting my findings.
Have you had a chance perform any listening tests yet?
Yes, indeed. I played a couple of CDs through it last night and then watched The Pacific on Sky HD. The sound of the Caiman with all these combined mods is now very fine indeed and the latest mods have given it more of what I heard before: greater fine detail, very low harshness, even more extended bass, focus within a deep and wide soundstage, a little more dynamic clout.
There were moments in the jungle scenes in The Pacific where I almost looked around, so realistic were the animal sounds, rustling of leaves etc. off-stage. In other scenes the sounds of gunfire and mortars created seismic effects that were almost disturbing.
The Caiman has been such fun to work on, I wonder what we can do to it next? For a start, there are two more electrolytics that I want to replace: the left-most one on the front PCB and the 'odd' one that not everyone has. Just for completion's sake.
I also note that you're using OPA2132P op-amps. How do you find them compared with the standard ones?
Yes, indeed. I played a couple of CDs through it last night and then watched The Pacific on Sky HD. The sound of the Caiman with all these combined mods is now very fine indeed and the latest mods have given it more of what I heard before: greater fine detail, very low harshness, even more extended bass, focus within a deep and wide soundstage, a little more dynamic clout.
There were moments in the jungle scenes in The Pacific where I almost looked around, so realistic were the animal sounds, rustling of leaves etc. off-stage. In other scenes the sounds of gunfire and mortars created seismic effects that were almost disturbing.
The Caiman has been such fun to work on, I wonder what we can do to it next? For a start, there are two more electrolytics that I want to replace: the left-most one on the front PCB and the 'odd' one that not everyone has. Just for completion's sake.
I also note that you're using OPA2132P op-amps. How do you find them compared with the standard ones?
Martin,
Before replacing the "odd electrolytic that not everyone has" why not try your DAC with it removed. My Caiman does not have that "odd cap" but its certainly got the PCB circuit and the remnants of a cap being there i.e snipped legs from a cap. Equally I could try a cap in that position but not clear what its functions was nor its uf or voltage value ?. What type/value cap has your Caiman got in that position ?
Frizzup:scratch:
Hi Frizzup
I believe we've asked Stan what that electrolytic's function is and he couldn't remember. I'm reluctant to take it out of circuit until I know what it does. The Caiman is closed and in circuit at the moment, I'll look up the value the next time I have it open.
StanleyB
23-04-2010, 06:18
The cap on the left of the front PCB is to control key bounce when the Power button is pressed. It doesn't affect the sound, but the on/off time period latching.
Hello all,
I have been searching hard for non-polarized 47uF/16V Rubycon caps but have not been able to find them here to upgrade the caps in my opamp board.
Does any of our fellow Caiman users have some to spare? Thanks.
So is there some suggested caps for certain positions or just the units the modder personally likes?
Also, is there any information to layout what each cap is used for without having to get in there and trace the circuits? I was thinking of some caps mods myself...
So are you guys happy with the Silmic caps used as decoupling around the dac chip etc ? I've never been a fan of Silmics when tried in other items finding them to add a sugary effect, apart from the signal coupling caps I've resisted the urge to change the other caps mainly tants Stan chose to use in the 7520/Caiman but may be tempted to change them if worth it
Covenant
24-04-2010, 10:30
Anything you can suggest as an alternative to the Silmac's Leo?
The Silmics are doing it for me, as are the Nichicons for op-amp coupling.
The Vinyl Adventure
14-05-2010, 13:11
Spoke to the chap at tirna today about getting my caiman blinged...
i just want to double check on all the bestest things to ask him to do ...
I would say the cost effective upgrades (especially as you have a 15V PSU coming your way) are the two regulators and op-amp coupling caps (only 4 if you don't use the headphone output).
Replacing all the other electrolytics makes a further small improvement but takes time and would probably double the charge from Tirna.
The Vinyl Adventure
14-05-2010, 13:39
Did you get my email martin?
So he will know what the best options are will he? He seemed to know when I spoke to him but he suggested I check here and make sure I get all the parts I want done in one go so as to avoid extra postage charges.
Yes, received and replied to!
He should certainly know what is meant by the regulators (choice of Murata or Dexa) and op-amp coupling caps (choice of Rubycon or Nichicon). The other caps are simply all the electrolytics replaced with Elna Silmic types.
It probably does make sense to have it all done at once. You are going to be amazed at the sound quality improvement in a single jump like that.
OOOHHHH, (cue Heaven 17...) Temptation! Hamish, would you mind spilling the beans on how much this little adventure is going to cost? (PM me if you're shy! ;) Appreciate some people may find it vulgar to talk money so apologies in advance for any offence.)
Anyway, depending on the outcome and cost, this could be worth me investigating too. I'm entirely happy with the Caiman, but you can never have too much of a good thing! (well of course you can, but you know what I mean! :) )
Anything you can suggest as an alternative to the Silmac's Leo?
Sorry I missed this :doh: tbh I'm not sure yet regarding alternatives , the Silmics are going to have noticeable audible differences compared to say the stock fitted yellow tants, their dielectric is much different
BTW, those playing with caps may want to try some alternatives on the bias non inverted input of the op-amps too :)
The Vinyl Adventure
14-05-2010, 15:34
Yeah il let you know alex no probs, £60 is what he has quoted me so far, I'm happy spending up to £100
I'm hoping it is going to even ferther beat the majik ds, then it will be interesting to see what happens when I get the majik back from audiocom!
The Vinyl Adventure
14-05-2010, 15:37
Yes, received and replied to!
He should certainly know what is meant by the regulators (choice of Murata or Dexa) and op-amp coupling caps (choice of Rubycon or Nichicon). The other caps are simply all the electrolytics replaced with Elna Silmic types.
It probably does make sense to have it all done at once. You are going to be amazed at the sound quality improvement in a single jump like that.
so regulators, coupling caps and electolyics to be replaced..
Is there anything else worth doing after that then?
Covenant
14-05-2010, 16:00
Its worth getting it all done at once because secure delivery (which Tirna insist on) is about £17 both ways. Jimmy at Tirna prefers a chat to an e-mail and often doesn't respond if you post an email message.
so regulators, coupling caps and electolyics to be replaced..
Is there anything else worth doing after that then?
Keep an eye on the Tirna website...
Jimmys sourcing all the components he needs to offer an "all in one" upgrade service for the 7520/caiman.
The Vinyl Adventure
14-05-2010, 18:08
... Yeah he said that today, sounds like it's about 2 weeks away...
Useful Info for someone? :)
For the latest mods (Elna Silmic II cap replacements)
There was a question HERE:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4580&page=37 (post 363)
about an extra Cap of 4.7uf 50V which wasnt on the list.
James (Carson) who did the mods originally bought the wrong rating (47uf not 4.7) and that set me looking for the correct one to add to my component order.
Wierd thing is, on the list of Silmic II caps on Hificollectives website, there ISN'T one rated 4.7uf.
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/elna_capacitors.html
My Google-fu is strong however :) and it turns out there is a 4.7uf Elna cap.
If you look at the order code in the table on that link, theres ELNAS-015, 025, 035....but no 30?
Turns out there is no Silmic II 4.7uf 50V caps, but after a chat with Nick from Hificollective there is a couple of other Elna caps in that rating, but aren't Silmic II's.
Two choices; Elna Axial or Elna Cerafine.
The Cerafine is more expensive AND is the one Nick recommends as the next step down from the Silmic IIs.
Maybe not as good, but not much in it Nick said.
So,
for anyone wanting to order the extra cap for the mods (and why not really?) the Order code from Hificollective is ELNAC-030
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/elnac030-47uf-elna-cerafine-electrolytic-capacitor-p-6233.html
Gaz.
But what does that extra cap do? :)
I swear i bought that extra 4.7uF cap of the same model and make from hi-fi collective a little while back. Maybe I ordered the wrong one again or forgot I bought another model from the Elna.
I shall have to scrounge around in my extensive parts bins and see what it was. :scratch:
But what does that extra cap do? :)
nae idea! :scratch: :)
(but then again I havent got much knowledge about the others either...)
but for an extra quid on the order I thought why not?
Turns out there is no Silmic II 4.7uf 50V caps, but after a chat with Nick from Hificollective there is a couple of other Elna caps in that rating, but aren't Silmic II's
That's not entirely correct, although a little trickier to get hold of. In fact I'm looking at one in front of me now, purchased from Parts Connexion,
ELNA-72734: 4.7uF / 50V, RFS Series, 5x11mm
http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_ele_elna_rfs.html
Still waiting for the Murata's to arrive...
The Vinyl Adventure
19-05-2010, 17:40
So, for mine and Simon's (ashmore) benefit
rubicon coupling caps (that jimmy is sourcing)
murata regulators (that jimmy is sourcing)
then we need to find a way of getting these electrlitic whatsawhosits ... Which it seems the best option is still open to debate?
Is that the lot? Nothing else? No other worthwhile things to mod?
In which case can we have some layman's terms advice on what and how to get these electrolitic things please - asuming jimmy isn't also sourceing them?
A few folks are liking the AD826 op-amps so maybe worth a try too, you can easily change back to the LM4562 if it doesn't suit
The Vinyl Adventure
19-05-2010, 18:53
Ha, you are obviously not aware of my track record leo :)
cheers though
so where to get these electrowhsits then? And what's the best option :)
That's not entirely correct, although a little trickier to get hold of. In fact I'm looking at one in front of me now, purchased from Parts Connexion,
ELNA-72734: 4.7uF / 50V, RFS Series, 5x11mm
http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_ele_elna_rfs.html
Still waiting for the Murata's to arrive...
Ah ha!
I did not know that....
Wonder why they are hard to get, interesting they are not on the Elna datasheet over at Hificollective.
Ah well, without knowing what the wee beastie does I wont worry about it!
*EDIT*
Just ordered one!
Dont want any wee niggles at teh back of my mind if I can help it :)
Not ordered from them before, whats the delivery time like from Partsconnexion then?
whats the delivery time like from Partsconnexion then?
Pretty good, usually just over a week.
Ha, you are obviously not aware of my track record leo :)
cheers though
so where to get these electrowhsits then? And what's the best option :)
The guy (post 26) on here may have a couple spare http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6356&page=3
The op-amps are in sockets, as long as your careful making sure ALL pins go into the sockets and the op-amp is NOT reversed its not that hard to do, use something like a small flat blade screw driver to prise up the Lm4562, no soldering required
But what does that extra cap do? :)
I'll have a look in a mo :)
I'll have a look in a mo :)
Just had a look under the board, the cap looks to be part of the flip-flop IC on the set pin input, probably part of the input switching
TBH I don't think you'd gain much upgrading this cap, no harm in trying it though, I'd stick with the stock value
The bigger cap near it would have much more influence ;)
Thanks, Leo. No point in changing that at all, it's probably just switch bounce logic.
As for the bigger cap, already done :)
StanleyB
19-05-2010, 20:48
It's the timing cap for the standby button. I don't think switch on/off will sound any better with a more expensive cap, but I stand corrected..
The Vinyl Adventure
19-05-2010, 20:52
It's the timing cap for the standby button. I don't think switch on/off will sound any better with a more expensive cap, but I stand corrected..
:lol: amazing
It's the timing cap for the standby button. I don't think switch on/off will sound any better with a more expensive cap, but I stand corrected..
Crap.
Stan , where were you earlier? ;) :)
Thanks, Leo. No point in changing that at all, it's probably just switch bounce logic.
As for the bigger cap, already done :)
Martin, would be good if I could find out more about that cap?
Im putting into place the bits I need for my next upgrade.
ta.
*EDIT*
The big one next to it..is that the 220uf 25V one already marked out in the photo posted earlier?
The big one next to it..is that the 220uf 25V one already marked out in the photo posted earlier?
Yes, that's the one!
Yes, that's the one!
already sorted. :)
Was a bit "trigger happy" on the old mouse button last night..soon as I saw a Slimic II cap available I bought one.
Might have been better to have found out what it did first eh? ;)
Heres hoping my order can be cancelled!
Oh, Martin?
Is it you thats using the 16V linear Teddyregs based PSU?
Could you tell me a bit about that, improvements cost availablility etc?
Ta.
At least you'll be sure that your switch logic will have a very nice bounce :)
Regarding the SuperTeddy regulator (better than the Teddy), yes I'm running it at exactly 16V into the Caiman and I love the result. It's not too difficult a project but it ended up fairly pricy - $59 for the regulator and about £50 for the transformer and other bits. You can order the regulator fully built and I would recommend it as there are surface mount components involved. It was an interesting diversion and well worth it but the 15V Caiman PSU is no slouch so only go down this route if you want the last nth of performance.
Oops, link:
http://www.teddypardo.com/
Peter Galbavy
20-05-2010, 13:12
Stan, can you make do with 6 AD826's ? If so then Hamish can have the "last" 2 I have. If anyone else wants to do the next "round" then like Stan suggested Farnell are much cheaper in batches of 10 and that also reaches their min £20 order level - work out about £3 each in VAT.
StanleyB
20-05-2010, 14:31
Sure. 6 will be just fine.
Got the components I need for the mods from Hificollective the next day.
Big thumbs up from me.
The Vinyl Adventure
21-05-2010, 10:28
Cheers Peter and Stan, and don't worry stan after my last balls up I'm just gonna send them with the caiman to tirna
If like me your cack handed with a soldering iron and want to upgrade your Bdac....
Tirna will be able to offer the Mutara Regs, Rubycon Caps mod in a couple of weeks when stocks of the components are confirmed.
Check the website
http://www.tirnaelectronics.co.uk/ for confirmation of availability.
Also, the latest mods upgrading caps to Elna Silmic II will be available soon too, but I believe this will be stock limited so watch website for details.
I've used Tirna before, quality work and very reasonable.
The Vinyl Adventure
25-05-2010, 19:19
Exactly what I'm waiting for, good news on the Silmic thingys too, I dot think that was on the cards when I last spoke to him
Received my 7520 back from Tirna today with the Murata, Rubycons etc all fitted. Warming up currently with a Caiman PSU. Think I'll leave it to tomorrow to have a listen.
Had the 7520 on tonight. Very interesting.
Had the 7520 on tonight. Very interesting.
Aww you can't leave us guessing like that. Spill the beans. How does it sound?
technobear
30-05-2010, 21:17
Aww you can't leave us guessing like that. Spill the beans. How does it sound?
It now needs 200 hours of run in time ;)
Thanks to top work by Tirna on Friday there, got the Elna caps mod done.
(I bought my own components and took my Dac down to them to do as I live locally)
To say my 7520 has came on a bit of a journey is an understatement.
Along with the Elna Cap mods I have upgraded to the Rubycons and the Mutara Regs..
oh, and the Wolfsen Dac chip swapped over too.
I'm using AD826 Opamps, which after trying lots of different kinds are the best to my ears, seems to bring the best of the rest without the downsides.
I'm running it at 15V with a diffrent PSU as well.
Anyway, I literally just plugged it in half hour ago after a weekend away and a funny thing happened...
:)
My Virgin Media box and DVD player are wired into the Dac as well as my SB Touch, and i had gotten the coax's from the DVD player and the Touch mixed up when wiring it all together.
So..power on, only to hear the sound of the last DVD I had in playing unexpectedly.
Friggin' Nora...talk about voices in the room? :eek:
And this is with my system just plugged back in after a weekend away?
I spent about 10 minutes just listening to what I was hearing from the DVD player..without the TV even being on.
No more comments about sound quality just yet...that was just an initial first impression.
Plugged the SB Touch in and...well...
Leaving in going for a few days to see what happens, but as far as the Elna cap mods? If you have everything else done?
Sell a kidney or whatever and just get it done, ok? :)
Seriously.
I wonder if there will ever be a day when it is not possible to get any more performance out of the Beresford DAC's? :scratch:
I'm waiting for the next idea...
StanleyB
31-05-2010, 14:03
Already?
quadsugdenman
31-05-2010, 14:29
Some of us would just like to catch up, and are eagerly await Jimmy at Tirna's purchase of bipolar caps.:whistle:
I'm waiting for the next idea...
What else is there?
My thoughts are related to my SB Touch, which APPARENTLY is a pretty great solution of getting bit perfect SPDIF to a Dac.
Thinking out loud....How does the Bdac cope with Jitter?
I'm sure its been asked before, but does "our" dac do any reclocking of the stream before it gets to the outputs or...?
What about looking at the spdif input...any milage there?
Cant think of any other potential improvements?
Oh, I fitted the "extra" Elna cap near the power button too (as I'd already bought it...) and now my power putton works a treat ;)
The Vinyl Adventure
31-05-2010, 14:55
Some of us would just like to catch up, and are eagerly await Jimmy at Tirna's purchase of bipolar caps.:whistle:
you must be the gary who is on the waiting list before me :)
Well I sat down for a couple of hours this afternoon and gave the 7520 a jolly good listening to against the new Naim DAC.
The 7520 I have is similar to Gazjams I think: Wolfsoned, Muratas, Rubycon bi-polars, Elnas, Caiman PSU, AD826 op-amp: Listening through the optical via an Apple TV with a lossless stream.
I picked out a few tracks to listen to that I know pretty well: Prefab Sprout - Steve McQueen (Remaster), Led Zep - Remasters and Kraftwerk - Tour de France (Remaster): and made a few notes as I went along.
After going back and forth between the DAC's a few times for all the tracks I listened to I ended up with the following comments in all of the comparisons:
7520
Again more 3D and a bigger soundstage, not as wide but brings the music closer to the listener. The vocal especially is in the middle of the room not sat back in the speakers. The instrumental section is definitely more 3D sounding although not as refined. A brighter sound.
This was compared to the Naim DAC which was:
Clear vocal. Solid and tight bass. Easier to pick out the instruments and vocal. The sound is sat back into the speakers. Rich sound. More detail and clarity.
A quick summary but that was the long and short of it.
If you did a blind test with the two DAC's then I'm sure you could pick one out from the other. They sound different for sure, especially in the presentation. The BDac is definitely more up front and "in your face" than the Naim. I think this is why there is a loss of refinement as it seems a bit harder to pick out the individual instruments for instance(?).
No surprise that the NDac was my preference then. (It was a fair wedge more so it should be I guess). However, the BDac certainly isn't disgraced. Far from it, and I think some folk would prefer the different presentation of the 7520. The increased clarity and refinement of the Naim DAC swings it for me though.
Comparing the pre-Tirnad 7520, which already had the Wolfson chip in it, to the to the post Tirnad 7520 is a little more difficult as I have been without the 7520 for a couple of weeks so a side by side comaparison wasn't possible of course. I did listen to the 7520 against the Naim DAC before it went down to Jimmy though and from what I can remember it is certainly now sounding better.
I'm also definitely keeping it too. (and waiting for the next upgrade :cool: )
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4628/picturesmall.jpg
quadsugdenman
31-05-2010, 16:21
you must be the gary who is on the waiting list before me :)
Yip Hamish, been waiting nearly 6 weeks since I first spoke to Stan and then to Jimmy. I tried to convince Jimmy that there would be a que for the mods but he first had to purchase something like zillions's of bipolar caps upfront!!!!!!!!! Unless you can supply Jimmy with the bits (Others have already done that) we have to be patient!!! :(
However the Beresford still amazes me in stock form, so if it can be improved - Woww:rave:
The Vinyl Adventure
31-05-2010, 16:38
im happy waiting for him to get the parts too...less room for error on my part!
See my earlier post which lists all parts needed...
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4580&page=34 (Post 333)
They were delivered next day from HiFiCollective so big thumbs up from me.
Useful info for those impatient buggers like myself?
Gawd..... :)
muhahaha
How are you finding your Tirna'd BDac now it's warmed up a bit Gaz?
The Elna caps have only been switched on for the first time a few hours ago, too early to say really and Im trying not to make any judgements but it IS quite different sounding to what I had before - even this early.
No proper listening from me for a couple of days... I heard the sound of new opamps change over the first few days..so Im wondering if the new Elna caps need that too before making a judgement?
That said, from cold "out the box" the quality of vocals from a DVD soundtrack really did surprise me how "realistic" sounding they were...bigger, more solid than before...but natural sounding?
Had a sneak peak at Bruce Springsteen "Magic" album, the production on that one is quite "busy" and I was curious about the revamped Dac and how it would handle that one?
:eek: :eyebrows:
very good, roll on the next couple of days..
Oh, to hear that the Bdac even APPROACHES the Naim Dac.....what can you say about that?!
Bit of a change for Naim...NOT being the one that sounds "in your face?" :)
quadsugdenman
31-05-2010, 17:11
im happy waiting for him to get the parts too...less room for error on my part!
Too right Hamish. I am about as useful with a soldering iron as a chocolate teapot!! :scratch: Always best leave it to someone who knows which side of the elastoplast is which!!!
:stupid: Garry
The Elna caps have only been switched on for the first time a few hours ago, too early to say really and Im trying not to make any judgements but it IS quite different sounding to what I had before - even this early.
No proper listening from me for a couple of days... I heard the sound of new opamps change over the first few days..so Im wondering if the new Elna caps need that too before making a judgement?
That said, from cold "out the box" the quality of vocals from a DVD soundtrack really did surprise me how "realistic" sounding they were...bigger, more solid than before...but natural sounding?
Had a sneak peak at Bruce Springsteen "Magic" album, the production on that one is quite "busy" and I was curious about the revamped Dac and how it would handle that one?
:eek: :eyebrows:
very good, roll on the next couple of days..
Oh, to hear that the Bdac even APPROACHES the Naim Dac.....what can you say about that?!
Bit of a change for Naim...NOT being the one that sounds "in your face?" :)
Hi Hamish,
Those Elna Silmics are going to sound a lot different to the stock Tants, a totally different made cap
The Vinyl Adventure
31-05-2010, 18:04
yeah? i have read some of your comments before about not being so sure about them (i think)... i was hoping to read about peoples experiences before finally commiting my self to anything ... ...
If anyone is after a standard BDac PSU I have one spare. Tenner to the UK.
HighFidelityGuy
31-05-2010, 20:23
I finished installing the Elna caps in my Caiman yesterday.
They definitely change the sound. The good points are that I'm now hearing more micro detail, vocals seem clearer, especially towards the top of the vocal frequency range. The sound stage seems a little higher and possibly deeper. Overall it sounds more airy and "live", as though I'm hearing more of a performance than a recording if that makes sense.
On the bad side there is more brightness to the sound which can get a bit tiring on some recordings. Bass seems to be a little more subdued but that may just be due to the extra brightness tipping the balance.
I've only clocked up a few hours since performing the mod, so the new caps are no where near run in yet. So I'm hoping the brightness will tone down a bit over time. If it does and the other changes stay the same I'll be happy with the results.
In addition to the Elna caps, I've previously performed the Rubycon and Wilma cap mods on the opamp board and installed the Murata regs. I'm still using the stock opamps and Caiman 15V PSU. I should also mention that I've recently performed a couple of other mods as well that may be affecting the sound a little. I've swapped the resistor behind the 5V reg for a wire link as the Murata regs can cope with more voltage than the old ones. I've also swapped the main reservoir cap for a 25V Mundorf MLytic SI 10000uF cap that I've laid on it's side. This is in preparation for swapping the Caiman switching PSU for a 16V linear supply that I'll be building soon. So I really do have a lot of new caps that need to run in.
I'll hopefully post an update in a week or two on how the sound is progressing. I'll also try and post a pic of my handiwork.
StanleyB
31-05-2010, 21:59
One mod that I use with my power amp is designed to increase the gain and dynamic range. I tried both 10K and 12K resistors and found the 12K mainly suitable when paired with the Murata regs.
http://www.homehifi.co.uk/images/mods/caiman/pa_gain.jpg
StanleyB
31-05-2010, 22:01
One mod that I use with my power amp is designed to increase the gain and dynamic range. I tried both 10K and 12K resistors and found the 12K mainly suitable when paired with the Murata regs.
http://www.homehifi.co.uk/images/mods/caiman/pa_gain.jpg
StanleyB
31-05-2010, 22:03
The other one I have been trying is the shortening of the track length from the DAC chip to the line opamp. I have been testing these two mods with the AD826 and haven't had a chance to try out other opamps with it.
http://www.homehifi.co.uk/images/mods/caiman/bypass.jpg
yeah? i have read some of your comments before about not being so sure about them (i think)... i was hoping to read about peoples experiences before finally commiting my self to anything ... ...
I'm not trying to put others off the Elna caps, I understand people like them, theres two particular pins on the dac chip you have to be very careful with what type of caps you use, they influence the performance. ANY type of cap which is electrically leaky will make the high's sharp (some new caps CAN measure electrically leaky when new or exposed to too much heat whilst soldering which can settle after running in) . This is one reason I've not rushed into changing all the caps around the dac chip yet. I remember when I was playing about with a dac using the PCM1794, theres also two caps for that dac chip which influences the signature, anything electrically leaky on particular pins would make the sound go sharp.
The Vinyl Adventure
01-06-2010, 00:33
Well that seems quite profoundly acurate to HiFiGuy dave's experience that he posted earlier today so with me having a couple of weeks wait his findings could prove most useful to me - Keep is posted if you would dave, airyness is what I am after at the moment so that sounds positive, less bass isn't an issue either... And brightness is no issue... As long as it goes away after some break in time :)
leo, are you saying it's not a permanent thing this harshness, or that it could be if the person doing the mod isn't careful?
I'm not trying to put others off the Elna caps, I understand people like them, theres two particular pins on the dac chip you have to be very careful with what type of caps you use, they influence the performance. ANY type of cap which is electrically leaky will make the high's sharp (some new caps CAN measure electrically leaky when new or exposed to too much heat whilst soldering which can settle after running in) .
The Elna caps mod was a little hot at first, but that is to be expected. Mine have settled down and now produce wonderful detail in a large soundstage, but not in-your-face or in any way bright. Bass extension has not suffered either, mine still capable of seismic events :)
The Vinyl Adventure
01-06-2010, 07:12
Ah coolio, I'd forgot you had already got em in martin :doh: my mind is abit else where at the mo...
To be fair I'm not bothered at all if they start off bright and calm down my amps did the the same and took a couple of months all in I recon before they smoothed out. The caimans break in wasn't quite as profound for me as it has been for some... ... I survived the amps and I'm sure it won't be as bigger deal as them so il cope I'm sure
Well that seems quite profoundly acurate to HiFiGuy dave's experience that he posted earlier today so with me having a couple of weeks wait his findings could prove most useful to me - Keep is posted if you would dave, airyness is what I am after at the moment so that sounds positive, less bass isn't an issue either... And brightness is no issue... As long as it goes away after some break in time :)
leo, are you saying it's not a permanent thing this harshness, or that it could be if the person doing the mod isn't careful?
Its hard trying to explain things on here :)
With some caps yes, it shouldn't be a permanent issue, if things don't improve I'd look at caps VMIDR/VMIDL of the chip
The Elna caps mod was a little hot at first, but that is to be expected. Mine have settled down and now produce wonderful detail in a large soundstage, but not in-your-face or in any way bright. Bass extension has not suffered either, mine still capable of seismic events :)
Thats good :) Its basically just to let folks know incase things don't suit
HighFidelityGuy
01-06-2010, 10:05
Its hard trying to explain things on here :)
With some caps yes, it shouldn't be a permanent issue, if things don't improve I'd look at caps VMIDR/VMIDL of the chip
Thanks Leo. I'll see if I can figure out which caps connect to those pins on the DAC chip. I know I did make a slight mistake with the 100uF cap and had to re-solder it. So there is a chance it got over heated. I'll see how things go and if the brightness doesn't tone down I'll swap out that cap for a new one.
For anyone else doing the Elna cap mod, pay particular attention to the 100uF cap when mounting. As it's wider than the cap it replaces you have to bend the legs to get them closer together. When I first mounted this cap I noticed one of the legs was touching a little surface mount cap underneath it and potentially shorting. So I had to raise the Elna cap up a bit to add some clearance. None of the other caps have this problem as they're further away from other components.
http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv12/Getgaff/BDACCaiman.jpg
As an added note, I put a small piece of shrunk heat shrink on each of the legs on the 220uF and 100uF cap to ensure they did not short on anything else.
If you look very carefully in the above picture, you can see the heat shrink on the 100uF cap.
I'll fit a pair of Elna SilmicII later
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj220/kingbusoms/nochip-1.jpg
apmusson
01-06-2010, 20:56
Hi Gaz,
I was just getting ready to send my Caiman to Jimmy for the Elna upgrades, but you've unnerved me a bit (...but natural sounding?).
Any updates yet?
Ade
That said, from cold "out the box" the quality of vocals from a DVD soundtrack really did surprise me how "realistic" sounding they were...bigger, more solid than before...but natural sounding?
hi Ade,
no need to put off the upgrade in my opinion...I'm watching Sherlock Holmes on DVD through the Caiman just now and it sounds fantastic..
With music...no sign of the brightness others have spoke about here, all the top end stuff like cymbals, drum thwacks all sound very very clear with weight but smooth and not harsh in any way.
What I'm loving the most is all the subtle stuff that's coming through..fantastic stuff.
The micro-detail is really impressive, isn't it?
10uf 50v Elna SilmicII's (brown and gold sleeve ) are now fitted
Can hear the difference straight away , so much for caps not making any difference :lolsign:
Where bouts did you fit 50v Elna's Leo?
Where bouts did you fit 50v Elna's Leo?
Out of all the caps around the dac chip the two here probably has biggest influence on sound http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=126650&postcount=459
I fitted the 10uf 50v shown in the above link, I also replaced the single electrolytic near the dac chip to a SilmicII and now the 220uf on the output of the 15v reg to a 220uf SilmicI
I'm just going to leave it for a few days to run in, after a day the upper mids and mid-range are much more colourful, a bit of a bloom added.
May require some op-amp fiddling again , we'll see how it goes
it was the 50v that confused me Leo, I had thought the original rating for those caps was 10uf 16V?
Obviously its working though! :)
apmusson
02-06-2010, 10:27
Ok Gaz,
Its on its way up West Linton now.
Jimmy sounded like he knew about the mod, so I just sent up my ELNA Simic Caps.
Is it worth getting him to change the resistor on the line-out to a 12k while hes at it as Stan mentioned? Did he do that on yours?
Ade
hi Ade,
no need to put off the upgrade in my opinion...I'm watching Sherlock Holmes on DVD through the Caiman just now and it sounds fantastic..
With music...no sign of the brightness others have spoke about here, all the top end stuff like cymbals, drum thwacks all sound very very clear with weight but smooth and not harsh in any way.
What I'm loving the most is all the subtle stuff that's coming through..fantastic stuff.
StanleyB
02-06-2010, 10:42
The 12K resistor mod is brand new. It is only recommended for power amp users who use the Caiman as a preamp. Integrated amps might have problems with the increased dynamic range.
apmusson
02-06-2010, 10:47
Ok. Noted. Thanks Stan.
The 12K resistor mod is brand new. It is only recommended for power amp users who use the Caiman as a preamp. Integrated amps might have problems with the increased dynamic range.
HighFidelityGuy
02-06-2010, 11:42
The 12K resistor mod is brand new. It is only recommended for power amp users who use the Caiman as a preamp. Integrated amps might have problems with the increased dynamic range.
Hi Stan. How about people like my self that use a passive "preamp" between the Caiman and power amps to allow other analogue sources? Would you recommend the 12K resistor mod in that scenario?
Thanks.
StanleyB
02-06-2010, 12:16
Hi Dave, the externally cased volume control, frequently referred to as a passive preamp, will be fine with the mod.
It's the integrated amps with a maximum input voltage of 2Vrms on the CD input that could experience overload problems. It works fine on my integrated amp, but it might not on many others. So at this moment in time I am bordering on the cautious side until anyone else flouts my suggestions and proves me wrong :).
HighFidelityGuy
02-06-2010, 13:12
Hi Dave, the externally cased volume control, frequently referred to as a passive preamp, will be fine with the mod.
It's the integrated amps with a maximum input voltage of 2Vrms on the CD input that could experience overload problems. It works fine on my integrated amp, but it might not on many others. So at this moment in time I am bordering on the cautious side until anyone else flouts my suggestions and proves me wrong :).
Thanks Stan.
So does the 12K resistor simply allow a little more voltage on the output?
The reason I ask is that I've put an attenuator between my Caiman and my external volume control to allow me to get the volume knob to 12 O'clock for normal listening levels. If I swap to the 22K resistors will I be partially undoing this? Or is it more complicated than that?
Thanks. :)
StanleyB
02-06-2010, 16:08
Remove the attenuator and fit a 6.8K or even 5.6K instead of the recommended 12K ( it isn't 22K as you quoted :)). Let me know what the difference you now hear.
HighFidelityGuy
02-06-2010, 16:53
Remove the attenuator and fit a 6.8K or even 5.6K instead of the recommended 12K ( it isn't 22K as you quoted :)). Let me know what the difference you now hear.
Thanks for the help Stan and sorry about the typo. I've edited my post to prevent confusion. Unfortunately I don't have either of those resistor values at the moment. I do however have some 10K and 100K trim pots spare. Would I be ok to use the 10K ones? They're Spectrol 64Z (http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/22479.pdf).
Providing you think they're good enough for the job I guess using these would provide easy testing of different values and fine tuning.
Cheers. :)
StanleyB
02-06-2010, 17:05
It's got to be metal film resistors of the value I mention There is no rush so take your time :). Is there a Maplin close by to you?
Hi Stan,
I would like to try the track length mod. Can't quite see the joint to the tracks in the photo and wondered if you actually cut the tracks on the PCB.
Regards
Chris
StanleyB
02-06-2010, 17:41
Hi Chris, if you look very carefully at the spot on the PCB where the two yellow wires are soldered on to you'll see two small holes of about 0.1mm :eyebrows:. You'll need 0.1mm insulated wire to fit into those holes. Soldering should be straight forward for a skilled operator of a hot iron..
Thanks Stan,
Just done the mod - had to file down some slightly bigger wire to fit. Small blob of solder top and bottom to hold it in place.
Regards
Chris
Thanks Stan,
Just done the mod - had to file down some slightly bigger wire to fit. Small blob of solder top and bottom to hold it in place.
Regards
Chris
Any noticeable improvements?
it was the 50v that confused me Leo, I had thought the original rating for those caps was 10uf 16V?
Obviously its working though! :)
Theres only about 2.5v across that cap, the caps I fitted are suitable for voltages up to 50v, its always best to fit the highest voltage rated caps which fit physically
its always best to fit the highest voltage rated caps which fit physically
Is that true even where leakage is critical?
HighFidelityGuy
03-06-2010, 09:15
It's got to be metal film resistors of the value I mention There is no rush so take your time :). Is there a Maplin close by to you?
Ok thanks. I do have a Maplin close by so I'll try to pick some up soon.
Cheers. :)
HighFidelityGuy
03-06-2010, 10:24
I forgot to ask...
What wattage should the resistors be?
Thanks. :)
The other one I have been trying is the shortening of the track length from the DAC chip to the line opamp. I have been testing these two mods with the AD826 and haven't had a chance to try out other opamps with it.
http://www.homehifi.co.uk/images/mods/caiman/bypass.jpg
Hi Stan,
Sorry to appear to be a "thickie" but not certain how this mod works. Isn't the original track still live unless cut? I keep thinking that the original PCB track and wire link both feed the opamp?
Regards
Chris
Hi Stan,
Sorry to appear to be a "thickie" but not certain how this mod works. Isn't the original track still live unless cut? I keep thinking that the original PCB track and wire link both feed the opamp?
Regards
Chris
I expect the electrons will take the path of least resistance.
I expect the electrons will take the path of least resistance.
Hi Clive, not certain that this is correct. The PCB track will still be live and could add distortion. Gains may be achieved by cutting the track but before I wreck the Caiman (and start blubbering) I am holding back for "top man" Stans advice on this.
Regards
Chris
Hi Clive, not certain that this is correct. The PCB track will still be live and could add distortion. Gains may be achieved by cutting the track but before I wreck the Caiman (and start blubbering) I am holding back for "top man" Stans advice on this.
Regards
Chris
It could add capacitance, as for distortion I'm not convinced but yes, await Stan's advice.
StanleyB
03-06-2010, 14:50
The mod bypasses the normal track route, which is slightly noisy for some of the opamps like the AD826 and LM4562. It's not so obvious on some speakers. My Yamahas pick it up, but my Thiels don't.
At a later stage the wires are going to go to the analogue filter like the one sold by Tirna. The WM8716 has not got an analogue filter built in, unlike the PCM1716 on the TC-7520.
It's not a 'must have' mod in its standard form, but with the 12K mod it is an eye opener. My neighbour complained for the first time about the bass thumping his head :lol:.
The mod bypasses the normal track route, which is slightly noisy for some of the opamps like the AD826 and LM4562. It's not so obvious on some speakers. My Yamahas pick it up, but my Thiels don't.
At a later stage the wires are going to go to the analogue filter like the one sold by Tirna. The WM8716 has not got an analogue filter built in, unlike the PCM1716 on the TC-7520.
It's not a 'must have' mod in its standard form, but with the 12K mod it is an eye opener. My neighbour complained for the first time about the bass thumping his head :lol:.
Cheers Stan,
Could you please comment about leaving the existing PCB track in or not?
Regards
Chris
StanleyB
03-06-2010, 16:31
I left mine for now so that I can do quick comparisons when I change opamps.
Thanks Stan,
I have the AD826 in at the moment and the mod appears to make the sound a little more dramatic i.e. very quite to loud bits just leap out at you!
It certainly is not a backward step but the Caiman sounds so good anyway it is not easy to identify actual improvements.
Regards
Chris
StanleyB
03-06-2010, 19:23
As I mentioned :). Increased dynamic range.
The extra detail is noticeable on headphones as well. I discovered an extra instrument on a Roberta Flack track that I thought I knew very well. I had to remove the mods and then put them back just to make sure I was not imagining things.
Is that true even where leakage is critical?
I should have said usually rather than always:ner:
I've just tried the AD826 op-amps in place of the LM4562s in my modded Caiman. I'm reaching for a word to describe them: lush? Rich? Certainly there is no loss of detail but it's presented in a very rich and enveloping soundstage. The bass is truly subterranean and it wasn't lacking before.
Is this what others have found with these op-amps?
Covenant
04-06-2010, 20:47
Martin, I just think the AD826 has got the balance right; I have no wish to change op-amps since fitting a pair of these. Well not until something better comes along... The soundstage thing got me as well.
I've just tried the AD826 op-amps in place of the LM4562s in my modded Caiman. I'm reaching for a word to describe them: lush? Rich? Certainly there is no loss of detail but it's presented in a very rich and enveloping soundstage. The bass is truly subterranean and it wasn't lacking before.
Is this what others have found with these op-amps?
Hi Martin.
I've used the 826 for a while now...and I like them better than the usual suspects because they make the Dac sound more like a good record player..maybe its that rich enveloping soundstage you talk of?...but whatever it is to me its the "opposite" of digital and the closest to that feeling of involvement I got from my record player back in the day...
Was it the BB 2132 you swapped from?
Been thinking of trying opamp swapping again soon once I've given the new mods a week or so to "heat up"
Was it the BB 2132 you swapped from?
No, the original LM4562. I haven't tried any others on the basis that I enjoy listening to it performing optimally rather than cooling it down and putting new components in that need more running in!
I'm going to give these AD826 a lot of time to settle into their stride and will report back. By the way, the SuperTeddy 16V PSU is really doing its thing, fantastic low noise and 'blackness' forming the structure of the music.
Hi Martin,
If you like the LM4562 you will like the LME49720HA. This was the best that I had tried. I have the AD826 in now and really like it but yes the bass is boardering too heavy although tunefull.
The wire mod that Stan suggested helps with the AD826 though (adds a bit more control to the bass).
Regards
Chris
StanleyB
05-06-2010, 17:22
One of the mods that I haven't been able to yet publish is the passive mod:ner:. The main reason for that is that I was waiting for a couple of 47uF Rubycon caps from someone. The 2nd reason is that I have to double check it on my integrated amp since it has been a while since I last tried it. My amp is in storage right now whilst the builders expand my workshop/lab. But hopefully I can show the mod off in July:eyebrows:.
One of the mods that I haven't been able to yet publish is the passive mod:ner:. The main reason for that is that I was waiting for a couple of 47uF Rubycon caps from someone. The 2nd reason is that I have to double check it on my integrated amp since it has been a while since I last tried it. My amp is in storage right now whilst the builders expand my workshop/lab. But hopefully I can show the mod off in July:eyebrows:.
Ha ha, that reminds me. Did you get the caps ok then? :lol:
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