North London Hello

[Yorkrise]

Dear All

Hello. my name is Ben and I have a house that looks like the showroom of an unsuccessful second hand hi-fi dealer. I am known to Hi Fi Wigwam and to Pink Fish as well.

My current main system - dCS Scarlatti, Wilson Sophias and (at the moment) a 55kg firebreathing Line Magnetic LM219ia 24w (I think) single ended valve amplifier - needs a turntable. I am looking for something to play records on after about 20 years without vinyl. I do have two or three turntables in boxes in the loft , at least 2 of which are or were pretty good in their day, but of course I want to buy another one. So far I have about 2/3 of one - Garrard 401 motor (Audio Grail), groovemaster 12" arm and soon a layers of beauty plinth. Then I sort of stalled.

Any advice HUGELY welcome - to Ortofon SPU or not to Ortofon SPU?, for example, or whether an MM cartridge is naturally worse than a MC, gratefully received. Does the phone stage matter a great deal and is a good MM phono stage + a good MM cartridge better than a mediocre phono stage + an MC cartridge? Does tonearm cable matter? Is a SUT + MM phono stage always better than a dedicated MC phono stage?

No rush, but I would like to ask Firebottle about one of his phono stages...alot of good write ups for these and very tempting since valve based.

Pop, jazz, classical, led zeppelin - I am pretty eclectic, and getting more so, especially since very good CDs (and LPs) can be had in Oxfam for pennies ....

Cheers,

[walpurgis]

Hi Ben. Welcome to AOS.

Sounds as though your house looks like mine :).

You have some interesting gear. Shame about the 2/3 Garrard, that definitely deserves the effort to complete.

An SPU is a very nice MC. There are fewer very good MMs than MCs, but that's not to say one kind is necessarily better than the other. The phono stage is important enough to be critical to the final sound. There are no 'rules' as such, just use the best you can afford. My preference is for a good SUT into an MM stage, but others do it differently. By the way, a poor SUT is guaranteed to turn the sound of an MC into a big disappointment.


Enjoy the forum,
Geoff.

[Macca]

Hi Ben, welcome to AoS

I'm another who has piles of redundant kit lying about, But what can you do? It's the life we chose.

Please post some pictures of your collection in the Gallery section for us if you are up to it.

[struth]

Welcome aboard Ben. Hope you njoy the forum and stick around. I would say a good phono stage is most important part of a tt set up. The rest kinda will then come and go till you settle. Firebottles I know are very good, as I used to have one, and for the money, a bargain I'd say, although there are quite a few very good ones around, so it sometimes depends on the sound you wish to achieve. A nice mm might not reach the levels of sophistication of a good mc, but it can, in its own way be every bit as good.

[flapland]

Welcome Ben, your system sounds very interesting. The best phono setups I have had have been based around a MM stage and SUT so thats the router I would take. I am only short bus ride from Kentish Town if you fancy a listen to my AN M2 phono with a Cinemag SUT. I had naked SPU for a short while but haven't had a chance to try a proper SPU as my arm isn't suitable.

[paulf-2007]

I agree with Paul, a good mm stage and sut can be better matched to an MC cart and MC stages tend to be very expensive to give the same sound quality as mm and sut. Tonearm cables may make a difference but only if the set up is optimal. I've given up stressing over such things.

[Yorkrise]

Thanks all.

I wasn't entirely honest and also have an Oppo BD 105, (and love it), Audio Innovations Alto (best £80 I ever spent on the 'Bay, though the dreaded chrome version), Audio Research Ref 5, 110 (Kt120s, natch) a pair of the delightful Living Voice Avatar OBXes, Line Magnetic 518ia amp and a lovely but bashsed up pair of ancient Proac Tablettes.

That's before I get to what's in the loft ... some very strange things up there including the first turntable (Michell Reference) I bought in 1979...

Thank you for creating a safe environment to confess in.

Thanks for all the advice on the turntable project. I am getting a sense that a separate phono stage and a step up is the way to go, despite the increase in box count. There is an audion sterling on the 'bay at the moment and I am sore tempted. I have loved Audion amps since about 1993 ...but, as you can see, I have no room for one.

One other thing you might be interested in ... I have to go to Shenzhen in China about once every 3 months. They have a mall that sells nothing except hi end low wattage hifi including classic turntables, speakers (mainly British, old and new) cables, valves, components - and amplifiers we are not likely to see here, ever, possibly because they are not safe. They seem to be mad about it.

Cheers,

Thanks again - I will respond individually once I have more time.

Ben

[Floyddroid]

Thanks all.

I wasn't entirely honest and also have an Oppo BD 105, (and love it), Audio Innovations Alto (best £80 I ever spent on the 'Bay, though the dreaded chrome version), Audio Research Ref 5, 110 (Kt120s, natch) a pair of the delightful Living Voice Avatar OBXes, Line Magnetic 518ia amp and a lovely but bashsed up pair of ancient Proac Tablettes.

That's before I get to what's in the loft ... some very strange things up there including the first turntable (Michell Reference) I bought in 1979...

Thank you for creating a safe environment to confess in.

Thanks for all the advice on the turntable project. I am getting a sense that a separate phono stage and a step up is the way to go, despite the increase in box count. There is an audion sterling on the 'bay at the moment and I am sore tempted. I have loved Audion amps since about 1993 ...but, as you can see, I have no room for one.

One other thing you might be interested in ... I have to go to Shenzhen in China about once every 3 months. They have a mall that sells nothing except hi end low wattage hifi including classic turntables, speakers (mainly British, old and new) cables, valves, components - and amplifiers we are not likely to see here, ever, possibly because they are not safe. They seem to be mad about it.

Cheers,

Thanks again - I will respond individually once I have more time.

Ben

Great sounding system. Welcome.

[Barry]

Welcome to AoS Ben,

You're not alone - quite a few of us have a lot of redundant/spare equipment lying around the place. Sadly there is no cure!

Do you have your heart set on an SPU, or have you considered others such as Denon, Audio Technika or ZYX? I have used Ortofon MC cartridges for some 40 years, and at the moment I am using an MC25FL. My SPU hasn't been used for some time.

When it comes to choosing between using an SUT into the MM input of your preamplifier, or using a dedicated MC phonostage, I'm somewhat agnostic. In the past I have used either Ortofon (Jorgen Scheu), Partridge, Nakamichi or Haufe transformers, but these days I use a phonostage (either a modified elderly Linn LINNK, or at the moment a Mark Levinson ML10A feeding a Levinson ML28 preamplifier).

Yes, phonostages matter and a mediocre phonostage used with a good MC cartridge will often sound poorer than a good MM cartridge. However I would not dismiss fixed-coil designs. There are several new designs available, such as Ortofon, Nagaoka and Grado which are well woth investigating.

Get your arm and cartridge sorted out first, before you start worrying about arm cables!

Enjoy the forum
Barry

[Firebottle]

Thank you for creating a safe environment to confess in.

Hi Ben, got to be one of the best recent comments on AoS :)

I seem to be acquiring more kit, slowly though I am glad to say.

A good phonostage is essential to get the best from vinyl, but maybe I would say that. A good head amp into an MM stage is also very productive.

Welcome :thumbsup:

Alan