Wire and solder [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

Bonky

02-07-2016, 17:31

danilo

02-07-2016, 19:30

Barring any recommendations that will surely follow ;)
IF you must? Thin single conductor wire is Good stuff.
IMO Buy a metre length of Cat 5 or 6 Cable (almost free) and use the wires contained therein as hookup wire.
Cat 5/6 wire has Proven Excellent, certainly so as twisted pairs for Signal wires in and output.
All sales claims aside.
Proof is audible.
Kimber Speaker wire is similar (enough.. insulation material differences) to their Higher priced stuff .
That said the Cat wire sounds 'at least' as good and possibly better than their teflon insulated versions.. in my (and others) usages
Enough so that I have several meter lengths of the stuff in all of their colours, gathering dust for 20 years.
Just My 2 cents.
G'luck

Bonky

02-07-2016, 20:10

Thanks, Cat5/6 seems like a good cost effective alternative; I hadn't thought of that.

BW

R.

unfairlane

03-07-2016, 04:48

Kimber or any other stranded wire means a significant decrease of signal quality while a single-core solid conductor will have no audible loss. Thin* conductors gives "thin" sound because they will restrict the amp`s attempts to pump out the musics fast changing dynamic signal, the signal will be "flattened out" and the amp will sound thin and out of breath. Similarly, the effect of waisted blood vessels.

What can be concidered as thin conductors in hifi? Anything smaller than 12awg on the primare high current side (220V) is on the thin side. When it comes to the low-voltage secondary site (this includes trafo`s) any electrican knows the rule here; the surface area should be upgraded corresponding reduction of voltage to avoid dynamic loss. And remember; the seconary site means everything from the powersupply to the speakers terminals.

On the signal-side: solid copper conductors and allways a notch thicker than what socalled "experts" recommends. Be aware that solid copper will need a shorter burn-in. Good luck!

Bonky

03-07-2016, 07:12

Thanks Reidar. I understand. I think I have some 13 amp solid core mains cable in the garage. Perhaps that will do.

BW

Bonky

Reffc

03-07-2016, 07:53

I am shortly going to attempt upgrading a Quad 306. I know DADA do an upgrade kit but the amp has already been partly upgraded, so I wish to complete the task.

One site has Kimber 4TC and PSB as its recommendations for replacing some of the internal wiring - but it seems hard to come by in the UK unless one buys speaker cable.

So my questions:

1. Is it worthwhile replacing some of the internal wiring with 'audiophile' wire, and, if so, what would be recommended? (I want value for money...not some military grade stuff that costs the earth). I was looking for a source for the same wire used in the Tisbury pre-amp.

2. I have leaded solder, but is it worthwhile using a specific type/brand?

Many thanks,

Bouncy.

Richard, I would strongly suggest that the required rating of the wires including insulation properties, are the governing criteria for any replacements, and not what some bloke says on a forum somewhere! Wires on their own do not make or break what an amplifier circuit sounds like, that's just forum nonsense. The circuit implementation and quality of components (and specification) are what matter.

You might be better served looking towards renewing things like old power supply smoothing caps like for like and anything else where tolerance and component quality (conformance with required properties) is critical. That takes more than a smattering of knowledge. Anything else is guesswork and messing in the blind, plus for whoever gets the amp down the line could also prove dangerous if ratings are not correct. Sorry but it's a personal bug-bear of mine having seen so many dangerous DIY disasters over the years. Forgive me if I have jumped the gun and that you are already competent and clued up on the design of the amplifier.

As for solder, any decent quality lead/tin will do, and I would recommend RS components' 60/40 multicore solder.

Forget audiofool wire, and just stick to any pure copper or ofc (less chance of corrosion at joints down the line) of any brand, avoiding unbranded Chinese copper of unknown quality. I have worked on a few 303's in the past and simply replaced the wires with a like for like (or higher) rating where corrosion had set in. Can also be worth re-flowing some solder joints, especially in areas of mechanical stress on a circuit board (eg were external connections are made).

Bonky

03-07-2016, 10:57

Thanks Paul, I know how to solder and can implement Ohm's law...but that's about it at present. I'll certainly take your advice and err on the side of caution!

Cheers,
Bonky

struth

03-07-2016, 11:02

I know how to sober too but rarely implement it :)

Bonky

03-07-2016, 11:28

Aargh! I hate making typos! Apologies, I'll correct it. I'm in France at present sampling some good wine so, yes, sobering I only do in the mornings.

Cheers.

Richard.

danilo

03-07-2016, 17:39

Actually those were well considered points.
Swapping out wires armed with exuberance rather than knowledge can be a recipe for disaster.
A maintenance overhaul.. is likely the cleverest course.

PS Kimber wires are not stranded and of adequate Gauge for Most amp hook up wire duty

Fitting an exceptional Pre would give the Most audible benefit.
One can either spend large... there are several that would make genuine improvements
OR DIY a simple Passive such as this Man's ... simple /effective / Very good one
17388
A fairly simple/inexpensive build, doubling as a learning adventure as well.
Still leaves the need for input switching and phono inputs though, but having completed the Pre project,
the other bits will be Much easier.

Food for thought ?

Bonky

03-07-2016, 19:28

Thanks Danilo, I was thinking of pairing the Quad 306 with a Tilbury passive pre-amp; the combinations seems to work well according to other sources.

The DANA upgrades do have 'audiophile' wire but just for the PCB to the 'new' RCA loudspeaker outputs. It was on the Yahoogroups/quad hi-fi that the suggestions for the kimble cable came

Not sure if this pic will come out...
/Users/richardstevens/Desktop/Quad 306:1.jpg
/Users/richardstevens/Desktop/Quad 306:1.jpg

BW

Richard

danilo

04-07-2016, 17:24

Wellll good luck.
Few fooling at the edges ' amp mods' do much.
But hey.. Learning is intrinsic to our Hobby. Has been for me.
DO consider that DIY pre I posted a schematic for.
Seriously Unlikely one can buy it's equal.
G'luck.

Bonky

04-07-2016, 20:21

Thanks again Danilo,

I looked again at the schematic and found it a little difficult to understand - some values of components not mentioned and it has transformers - which I was trying to avoid. I'll keep on looking ...thanks.

BW

R

danilo

19-07-2016, 01:58

risking .. being Insulting :-)
Lookit Here http://www.zenmod.in.rs/amplifying/iron-pre/
You can ALWAYS ask him He's V Friendly.. an inveterate DIYer
Store bought stuff is invariably Overpriced and even worse: mediocre.
Remember: in Audio gear Simple/minimal is THE holy grail.. for proven reasons.
One Can do much better.. IF.. one is willing to put a bit of Sweat Equity in.

Bonky

19-07-2016, 06:33

Thanks Danilo. Interesting! Probably beyond my capabilities now. My 'new' quad 306 arrives this morning and although I have not (yet) got a dedicated pre-amp I will try it with Stan's Caiman2 DAC first (which, I hear, can be used as a pre-amp).
Thanks again, the website you gave certainly gives food for thought and makes the circuit diagram easier to understand. I was surprised at how thin many of the wires are!
BW

Richard.

danilo

19-07-2016, 17:09

yess .. amazing what simple Cat5/6 cable salvaged wires are good for. Most everything it seems ;)
Certainly low in prestige, yet V high in results.
Well.. consider it for 'one day'. Nothing equals the satisfaction gleaned from cobbling together a bit of DIY, then listening. Even if it barely works