Spherical stylus for old crackly records?

[hermit]

I have a few old mono blues records that are just too crackly to enjoy. I assume this is down to the fact that the grooves have been worn down by a big old mistracking spherical stylus in the past. So I was wondering if they would sound more acceptable if I used something like a Shure M44G spherical stylus instead of a modern fine line type or would I be throwing good money after bad? Will these old records still sound pants? Thanks.

[danilo]

Dunoo IMO Lp's wear.. Period.
Was a widely accepted viewpoint during the 60's/70's.
Why not try an AT 92ecd cartridge it has a fine(ish) stylus.
Best part is it's 20$ Delivered! from Amazon . Albeit over here :-) Look one up ??
It performs wayyy better than any Shure I've tried mine against ( hey! for 20$ it was virtually free.. had to try it) up to a Vi5 ..which I no longer own.
Worst case you get a Quite decent, almost free /disposable cart.. imo ideal for worn recordings.

[hermit]

Thanks Danilo. I've actually got an old AT110E that I could use but I imagine it won't sound much better than a fine line in these worn out grooves. My thinking was that a spherical stylus might reveal the wear less and make the records more tolerable but I don't want to splash out £55 to find out. I was hoping someone here might have previously experimented and could perhaps recommend an alternative spherical cartridge to the Shure.

[spendorman]

A friend was complaining that a lot of his records were not sounding that good, His arm is an SME fitted with a Shure M75ED. I suggested that some of his records might be a bit worn, and it might be worth fitting a larger stylus, an N75-6. He reports good results with this.

[walpurgis]

Have you tried a proper clean of the records Paul? If you have a Hi-Fi shop or record shop nearby that offers machine cleaning, it may work wonders.

If you could locate a decent second hand Denon DL-160. You would find that reduces record noise rather well.

[daytona600]

RCM should cure this unless records are a basket case
or pop by & I,ll clean some Loricraft & Ultrasonic RCMs
or a Mono cartridge with different stylus sizes should do
use a trusty SPU myself or 2M range & pop in a mono stylus

The generally accepted tip radius for playback of 78 RPM records is 3.0 Mil (0,003 inch).
Due to the playback in the past of these very old records with very high stylus pressure or even
with steel needles a lot of damage has been caused to the grooves. This damage is
the cause of a lot of distortion and back-ground noise. Sometimes better results can
be achieved by playing the record either on a lower part or a higher part of the groove
which may have been damaged less than the average height. To play-back at a higher
level, use either the 3.5 mil, 4.0 mil. To playback at a lower groove level use either
the 2.0 mil, or 2.5 mil tip. When you have found the best height affix a sticker to the
record so you will know the next time which stylus tip to use for best results

[hermit]

Thanks gents for your comments.


A friend was complaining that a lot of his records were not sounding that good, His arm is an SME fitted with a Shure M75ED. I suggested that some of his records might be a bit worn, and it might be worth fitting a larger stylus, an N75-6. He reports good results with this.

This is quite encouraging and makes me think that a spherical stylus might well improve things. Thanks.


Have you tried a proper clean of the records Paul? If you have a Hi-Fi shop or record shop nearby that offers machine cleaning, it may work wonders.

If you could locate a decent second hand Denon DL-160. You would find that reduces record noise rather well.

One of them was cleaned by on an RCM by the vendor but you're right it would make sense to get them spick and span as a first step.

Thanks for the tip re the DL-160. Might a DL-103 with its spherical tip not be even quieter on these records?


RCM should cure this unless records are a basket case
or pop by & I,ll clean some Loricraft & Ultrasonic RCMs
or a Mono cartridge with different stylus sizes should do
use a trusty SPU myself or 2M range & pop in a mono stylus

The generally accepted tip radius for playback of 78 RPM records is 3.0 Mil (0,003 inch).
Due to the playback in the past of these very old records with very high stylus pressure or even
with steel needles a lot of damage has been caused to the grooves. This damage is
the cause of a lot of distortion and back-ground noise. Sometimes better results can
be achieved by playing the record either on a lower part or a higher part of the groove
which may have been damaged less than the average height. To play-back at a higher
level, use either the 3.5 mil, 4.0 mil. To playback at a lower groove level use either
the 2.0 mil, or 2.5 mil tip. When you have found the best height affix a sticker to the
record so you will know the next time which stylus tip to use for best results

Sounds like you have it down to a fine art! Does the system you outline above apply equally to 33s? What cartridge do you use that has so many spherical tip size options?

[daytona600]

http://snvinyl.co.uk/WebRoot/Daily/Shops/eshop943300/5338/2A16/C997/47A7/5DC8/0A0C/05ED/95E6/2M-78_PnP.jpg


Sounds like you have it down to a fine art! Does the system you outline above apply equally to 33s? What cartridge do you use that has so many spherical tip size options?
....

lots of options do you have detachable or fixed headshell Paul
Fixed just change the stylus 33 & 78 & mono
Detachchable just change the catridge 33 & 78 & mono like the 2M ortofon PnP Plug and Play
& 33/45/78rpm on the deck covers everything made in the last 75years but wax cylinders

[danilo]

Thanks Danilo. I've actually got an old AT110E that I could use but I imagine it won't sound much better than a fine line in these worn out grooves. My thinking was that a spherical stylus might reveal the wear less and make the records more tolerable but I don't want to splash out £55 to find out. I was hoping someone here might have previously experimented and could perhaps recommend an alternative spherical cartridge to the Shure.

As clearly stated above One needs go down deeper into the recorded groove OR ride above the worn bit.
A wee tip on the Cheapy AT will do this. It renders some of my older erm..' clapped' Lp's usable.

Or one can buy from a selection of 'affordable' AT Stylii shapes /sizes that you could fit to your AT110.
There is a reasonable range available.. LPgear.com has such.. as a start point
Likely the Orto is the better cart... However Diminishing Returns do manifest ;) as costs escalate.
Question remains: how many $$ are you willing to expend .. experimentally?

[walpurgis]

As clearly stated above One needs go down deeper into the recorded groove OR ride above the worn bit.

That occured to me too. If conical styli have worn away part of the groove, a line contact stylus should bridge the wear and contact unworn areas. Conical styli have a limited groove contact area, as does a regular elliptical profile.

I still reckon a machine clean is the first thing to try though.

[montesquieu]

Cleaning can help with dirty records but it won't fix wear done by a duff stylus in the past - I picked up what was clearly once a wonderful Rubenstein box set that had one channel taken out on every side of every disk by some idiot who had trashed them all by playing them with a lopsided rusty nail, no doubt with a stack of coins added to the headshell for good measure. Bin was the only solution. Tragic. Cleaning = no help at all.

Having said that, with worn mono, a good clean followed by playing with the right stylus can sometimes improve things - most of my mono is played using a Miyajima Zero Mono which has a 0.17 spherical. I also have an Ortofon SPU Mono GM MkII which has a 0.25 spherical, intended for early Microgroove mono but this works quite well on worn later mono stuff as it sits higher in the groove and can avoid some damage. It's not a panacea though.

There are other professional archiving and restoration systems that use a STEREO cartridge to take a signal optionally from either left or right wall of a mono record- meaning that if only one side is damaged, the other can be retrieved undamaged - but that's not a practical solution for ordinary punters.

Not a huge amount can be done with worn stereo though as stated above it is possible to get larger styli from the likes of Expert Stylus for cartridges like the Shure M44 - I have several for different eras of 78s, but one for microgroove mono could surely be had.