Montesquieu's setup

[montesquieu]

Time I blogged about my setup .. of course doing this back to front, after having had literally hundreds of bits of gear through, I'm posting this up now I'm essentially finished.

New plinth just arrived from Russ Collinson. Sapele and oak, intended to echo the sapele wood and oatmeal cloth on the RFC Canterburys.

Enjoying the SME M2-12R I got from Petrat. Quite dramatically different presentation to the Ikeda IT345-CR1 (no I don't know what he's getting at with the scrabble-bag name either). Currently have the Royal N on a 20g FR headshell on the SME, and the Miyajima Kansui on the Ikeda. Will swap the cartridges over at some point and explore what's going on.

Russ organised a lid for me as the wife has been threatining to get a cat! This was the impetus to change what was an ordinary-looking but very good sounding plinth - though for all it's drilled and filled with lead shot, I think the new plinth must be twice the weight! I think I'll want a cover for the Radford too for when it's not in use.

Sorry for the crap pics I'll try to do better in the daylight, it was getting dull by the time the lid pic was taken and it looks a bit washed out by the time I upped the exposure..

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/plinth1_zpsv8carmbr.jpg

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/plinth3_zps0a5cqdav.jpg

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/plint3_zpsmtyr9r8u.jpg

[Audio Al]

Very nice Tom :)

[petrat]

Ah, I was wondering where I'd left that SME. Can I have it back, please? :D

Yes, Russ should warn his plinth customers that they need to take out hernia insurance. My 401 one had its own gravitational field ... sucked in a pet gerbil, never seen again.

[jandl100]

All finished?
OK! - time for that music bake-off, Tom. :thumbsup:

[hifilover]

Lovely system! 'proper retro' ;)

[Virtual-Symmetry]

Lovely system! 'proper retro' ;)

Is it? Retro & Vintage are two different things. Vintage is Vintage, Retro means modern made to look Vintage. What does it make it with the Addition of the modern Ikeda arm?

[hifilover]

Ok, retro in my eyes, 'vintage' in others...

I've no idea what the components are bar reading his sig; so I deemed it retro... :mental:

[Barry]

Be careful you don't tread on those vintage/retro cartridges laying on the floor! :D

[jandl100]

I'd call it an interesting mixture of vintage and retro.

The speakers are retro, the deck is vintage and the plinth retro.
Electronics are also a mixture as well - vintage power amp and retro pre?

[Virtual-Symmetry]

If anything is retro there its the SME arm really.Modern arm based on a vintage design.

[Joe]

Vintro or Ageret?

[Reffc]

Love the plinth Tom. Nice and understated unlike much of the bling around these days.

[montesquieu]

Interesting discussion and certainly got me thinking ... my intention has been neither vintage nor retro, just a particular system philosophy whose details have evolved over time but which I've been reaching for pretty much since I discovered hifi.

For example:

The speakers came from my own (dare I say it considerable) experience of Tannoys ... yes I could have bought some new ones but I believe the old ones on balance have the most to offer. (My current pair are not really a great saving over a s/h pair of modern Canterburys, but they don't really give away much - if anything - either in performance). The cabs are new (vintage inspired but built to modern standards) but the drivers are from the early 70s. DCs in big cabs just do something special that no other speaker can quite match. It's both a starting point, and an end point.

The Raford amp is 100w of KT88 power from 1968 - possibly the very amp late Beatles amps were mastered with using Tannoys, certainly it was the main workhorse of Decca at the time, also with Tannoys - but when put up against a current EAR 534 it sounded essentially identical - which is as it should be. The last thing I want is an amp that sounds like an antique.

The Ikeda arm replaced a near identical sounding FR64S - same designer 40 years apart, and for fun I was able to check out the fact that most of the bits are interchangeable - it's a modern recreation of the same arm. (Thought the SME M2-12R I think is better than the vintage 3012 on innumerable counts). More to the point both exists to work with low compliance cartridges, such as SPUs or modern re-interpretations of the SPU ideal like the Miyajima cartridges.

I guess my goal was more about a reaching for a particular sound - Tannoys with proper amplification, a TT that did low compliance cartridges properly - and most of all, functionality, the specific functionality I need to listen to my own collection of music.

If this is retro, then fine, I can live with the label. It's certainly vintage in places but I truly think (this from attending shows and hearing the 'latest thing') that while new ways of doing things are still being discovered, a lot of old things have been largely forgotten, or simply can't be done any more at small, modern scale due to tooling cost for low volumes (the TD124 falls into this category).

Yes I'm sure a really good (equally good), interesting system could be assembled based around, say open baffle, or single driver horns, or electrostatics - but it would probably end up entirely different. As would something built around high compliance cartridges (in which I have precisely zero interest), or focused on hi-res digital file replay.

For me it's important that I can take off some 1970s vinyl that I've been enjoying to the full, swap a cartridge, whack on a 78 from 1932, and get a stunning sound, or change cartridge again and use my kit to tweak the EQ of a 1951 mono recording to sound like it's a live radio broadcast. That might not matter to some people, but making these physical objects sing gives me a real kick.

[petrat]

Needless to say, I agree with all this ^^ :D

So, what's the verdict on the SME M2-12R?

[montesquieu]

Needless to say, I agree with all this ^^ :D

So, what's the verdict on the SME M2-12R?

Very happy with it. Really brings the best out of the SPU Royal N in particular. Subjectively seems a shade weightier in the bass than the Ikeda arm as well.

The internal wiring is silver litz, apparently (I didn't know that). I'm consequently pondering having some right-angled RCAs put on the AN-V arm cable I have kicking around instead of the 5-pin plug, to see if that adds anything - don't know anything about the standard arm cable with it. Paul if you read this - I've been meaning to email you!

[Mala]

Insanely good looking deck, and setup! Great stuff! :D

[Andy831]

Lovely set up Tom.

[RobbieGong]

Vintage , retro, potatoe, potarto .... doesn't matter to me,
Lovely set up ;)

[montesquieu]

All finished?
OK! - time for that music bake-off, Tom. :thumbsup:

How's are dates in July looking? Agreed it's time! Long delayed.

[danilo]

Very nice setup pictured there. I'm envious :-)
Curious about that Settee shaped room treatment though.
Seems as surprisingly close to the pore old Tan's output.
Took a Loong time / significant efforts to fine tune My room sounds.
Obstacles / Furniture, even 10' in front of the Speakers had significant effect.
Which is why I'm even asking .

[montesquieu]

Very nice setup pictured there. I'm envious :-)
Curious about that Settee shaped room treatment though.
Seems as surprisingly close to the pore old Tan's output.
Took a Loong time / significant efforts to fine tune My room sounds.
Obstacles / Furniture, even 10' in front of the Speakers had significant effect.
Which is why I'm even asking .


It's our living room, about 4.5 metres by 5.5 ... 2 seater listening sofa is facing the speakers but I have a longer sofa also on the left and a fireplace and record racks on the right. No TV thank goodness as I don't own one.

The sofa arm is well below where the drive unit is, which in turn is pointing into the room ... I don't hear the sofa as having much if any effect, sounds much the same as similar Tannoys in two previous living rooms (as plenty AoSers who have been round could attest I'm sure). That's one of the many great thing about Tannoys, single point source at ear level. Might be in trouble with lower-set speakers or with a speaker that had multiple drive units with some set below the height of the sofa's arm, but no issues as things are currently.

[User211]

Unless you turn it up, when it starts to shake, rattle and roll a bit, I seem to remember.

Bass is always bass, provided the speakers do it in the first place.

Tom doesn't listen at those levels though.

[montesquieu]

Unless you turn it up, when it starts to shake, rattle and roll a bit, I seem to remember.

Bass is always bass, provided the speakers do it in the first place.

Tom doesn't listen at those levels though.

Not sure if that was the floorboards or the rafters, Justin!

Ears are still recovering :)

[User211]

My listening room is mid-decoration. I'm already thinking I am mad.

I've moved 4 extremely heavy power amps, a heavy pre and DAC, 2 stupidly heavy speakers that can't be lifted even by two people when assembled, what seems like a billion cables, quite a few CDs and 400 odd records - and that is before even a lick of paint hits the walls (which it has).

Then the joy of putting it all back after spending hours painting it two-tone:D:mental::scratch::rolleyes::doh:

[Barry]

My listening room is mid-decoration. I'm already thinking I am mad.

I've moved 4 extremely heavy power amps, a heavy pre and DAC, 2 stupidly heavy speakers that can't be lifted even by two people when assembled, what seems like a billion cables, quite a few CDs and 400 odd records - and that is before even a lick of paint hits the walls (which it has).

Then the joy of putting it all back after spending hours painting it two-tone:D:mental::scratch::rolleyes::doh:

That's nothing - I had to move two 30kg monoblock amplifiers, three preamps, various power supplies, tape decks, turntables, CD players and a tuner, over 1,000 CDs and a similar number of vinyl records, four other monoblock power amps and over 650 books. Oh, and two speakers.

Yet despite all that, thanks to very careful planning, I went without my system for only a day and half. And that included having a dedicated ring main installed for the audio, running balanced-line audio cables under the floorboards and having a new carpet fitted, the latter which required the entire room to be free of furniture.

[jandl100]

I get around all these problems by being happy to have a tatty living room. :D

[User211]

That's nothing - I had to move two 30kg monoblock amplifiers.

Lightweight. Not discovered real amps yet, then:D The rest of it does sound a bit of a chore, though.

[User211]

I get around all these problems by being happy to have a tatty living room. :D

No comment, Jerry:)

My advice? Do the kitchen first. It would be a very nice house if some money were to be directed away from the hearing budget to more money making ventures. Like a nicer environment to live in.

[montesquieu]

No comment, Jerry:)

My advice? Do the kitchen first. It would be a very nice house if some money were to be directed away from the hearing budget to more money making ventures. Like a nicer environment to live in.


We had some people in for a month before we moved in did the whole thing ... that was three years ago though there are a few corners now needing a lick of paint ....

[jandl100]

No comment, Jerry:)

My advice? Do the kitchen first. It would be a very nice house if some money were to be directed away from the hearing budget to more money making ventures. Like a nicer environment to live in.

I thought you said No comment. :lol:

The money is available, we just can't be bothered with all the disruption. :)
We are just naturally scruffy - and happy to be that way.

[montesquieu]

To get back to the matter at hand - comparing the SME M2-12R and the Ikeda IT-345 CR1 - I had a bit of fun tonight chopping and changing cartridges between arms.

The results were fascinating. I'm sure it's a function of the Miyajima Kansui being a shade more compliant (though still firmly low compliance) than both the Royal N and the Miyajima Shilabe I had previously, but it seemed to lose a teensy bit of its composure on the 12in charm, sounding by comparison just a slight bit blunt-edged and being somewhat (these things all being relative) happier on the Ikeda ... indeed, I think the Kansui-Ikeda pairing is made in heaven. (The main difference between the Ikeda and its predecessor the FR64S is that the former is slightly lower mass ... making the FR64S probably better suited for the Shilabe than it is with the Kansui, and vice-versa - again these things are all pretty marginal, but marginal is where it's at at this level).

The Royal N, by contrast, totally sings on the 12in SME - almost like the arm was designed solely for the purpose of working with SPUs! The synergy is palpable. I have had a couple of Royal N's in the past - one I foolishly sold instead of a Koetsu Rosewood Signature, seduced by the Koetsu brand cachet and only acknolwedging after the SPU's departure that I sold the wrong one (this in a Thomas Shick arm that worked fairly well, though I would say not ideally, with either). I've never heard the Royal N sound so vibrant, punchy, liquid and detailed all at the same time. In the Ikeda the Miyajima still has the edge over it in absoulute terms in refinement and detail (and of the two is, I would say, the superior cartridge), but for fun factor the Royal N certainly has a lot going for it. So for clavichord, chamber music, lieder, it's the Miyajima, for bebop and blues, the Royal N. Arms permitting, of course.

Royal N in the Ikeda was fine but lost a teeny bit of its lusciousness (though only in comparison - it still sounded very competent). Of course some of this could well be down to the finer arts of setup - I didn't markedly change the setup of either, only dialled in the appropriate tracking weight - so all this could well be bollocks. (As indeed, much of what you read tends to be). But there are my impressions anyway.

Again quite interestinly it seems to matter not a jot which arm the Miyajima Zero gets used on ... my guess there is that's because it has NO vertical compliance, only horizontal compliance. I could hear no difference. I felt the Premium 78 a shade happer (well, it LOOKED more controlled at least) on the shorter Ikeda.

The Royal N was intended to be a 'second rank' cartridge taking pressure off the Miyajima so I wouldn't wear it out so quickly. But I suspect it's going to be a bit more even-handed than that. Nice place to be. Starting to wish I'd also kept the Shilabe .. I always felt the Kansui wasn't an upgrade to the Shilabe, just a different flavour/option. I'm now convinced it's about compliance and synergy with differnet arms.

Interesting evening!

[Barry]

Lightweight. Not discovered real amps yet, then:D The rest of it does sound a bit of a chore, though.

At 30Kg for a 25 watt pure class A monoblock, it works out at 1.2Kg/watt. Does that make them any heavier? :D

[Marco]

Time I blogged about my setup .. of course doing this back to front, after having had literally hundreds of bits of gear through, I'm posting this up now I'm essentially finished.

New plinth just arrived from Russ Collinson. Sapele and oak, intended to echo the sapele wood and oatmeal cloth on the RFC Canterburys.

Enjoying the SME M2-12R I got from Petrat. Quite dramatically different presentation to the Ikeda IT345-CR1 (no I don't know what he's getting at with the scrabble-bag name either). Currently have the Royal N on a 20g FR headshell on the SME, and the Miyajima Kansui on the Ikeda. Will swap the cartridges over at some point and explore what's going on.

Russ organised a lid for me as the wife has been threatining to get a cat! This was the impetus to change what was an ordinary-looking but very good sounding plinth - though for all it's drilled and filled with lead shot, I think the new plinth must be twice the weight! I think I'll want a cover for the Radford too for when it's not in use.

Sorry for the crap pics I'll try to do better in the daylight, it was getting dull by the time the lid pic was taken and it looks a bit washed out by the time I upped the exposure..

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/plinth1_zpsv8carmbr.jpg

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/plinth3_zps0a5cqdav.jpg

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/plint3_zpsmtyr9r8u.jpg

Love it, Tom - especially those gorgeously retrotastic speakers! :respect:

Marco.

[Barry]

The Royal N, by contrast, totally sings on the 12in SME - almost like the arm was designed solely for the purpose of working with SPUs! The synergy is palpable. I have had a couple of Royal N's in the past - one I foolishly sold instead of a Koetsu Rosewood Signature, seduced by the Koetsu brand cachet and only acknolwedging after the SPU's departure that I sold the wrong one (this in a Thomas Shick arm that worked fairly well, though I would say not ideally, with either). I've never heard the Royal N sound so vibrant, punchy, liquid and detailed all at the same time. In the Ikeda the Miyajima still has the edge over it in absoulute terms in refinement and detail (and of the two is, I would say, the superior cartridge), but for fun factor the Royal N certainly has a lot going for it. So for clavichord, chamber music, lieder, it's the Miyajima, for bebop and blues, the Royal N. Arms permitting, of course.

The original SME arm was designed for use with the, then, Ortofon SPU. The arm was made of stainless steel, being replaced by aluminium in the Series II versions. The current M2 series, along with the 'R' versions of the '3000' arms, have returned to the use of stainless steel. This might explain your preference of the M2-12R arm over the older Series II 3012 when used with your Ortofon Royal N.

Nice write up. :)

[User211]

Love it, Tom - especially those gorgeously retrotastic speakers! :respect:

Marco.

If you haven't heard that system Marco, you must go sometime... though source/amp wise it is now totally different to what I heard. Still think it'll be top notch and probably even better than what I heard.

[User211]

At 30Kg for a 25 watt pure class A monoblock, it works out at 1.2Kg/watt. Does that make them any heavier? :D

No, but I can respect that. +1 brownie point.;)

[montesquieu]

Thought it might be time to say a few words about cartridges. Currently running seven MC cartridges (on top of a fairly healthy MM stable in use in the study) - five stereo and three mono. On the TT currently are:


Ikeda 9TT, in the standard Ikeda headshell that comes with the IT345-CR1 tonearm - very well sorted stereo cartridge, 0.16 mV output / 2 ohms
Ortofon SPU Royal N - stereo cartridge using gold coils and the Nude Replicant (top of the line) Ortofon stylus, 0.2mV / 6 ohm. This in a rather interesting Nasotec Swing Tangential Headshell, the heavy 20g version for SPU.



http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/ikeda_zpsfrbrluq0.jpg

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/royaln-naso_zpsonmjzqqb.jpg

('scuse the dust). Meanwhile in the holder are three Miyajimas and two more Ortofons:


Miyajima Kansui - stereo cartridge on another Ikeda headshell that suits it rather well, Shibata tipped, 0.23mV / 16 ohm. This replaced my Miyajima Shilabe quite recently. In a Fidelity Research headshell.
Miyajima Zero - Mono, conical, 0.7 mil version for later mono and reissue, 0.4mV / 6 ohm. In a Fidelity Research headshell.
Miyajima Premium 78 - conical, 3.0 mil version for use only with 78 rpm shellac, 0.7mV / 6 ohm. Also in a Fidelity Research headshell.
Ortofon SPU GM (Mk 1), the first remake from the 90s of the vintage conical-tipped original stereo SPUs, was NOS when I got it, 0.2mV / 6 ohm.
Ortofon ‘SPU’ Mono GM Mk II, also conical, but large tip, 25 µm (1.0 mil) for playback of early microgroove mono (wider groove width), output 3mV / 100 ohm - runs into standard 47k ohm MM phono stage so luckilly my adjustable Hashimoto SUT has a bypass switch.


http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/box_zpsf48vccnm.jpg

The common theme here is low compliance - all the stereo cartridges and the Ortofon mono are low compliance for use with heavy arms (the Ikeda mentioned above, and my SME M2-12R acquired from Petrat) in heavy headshells. The Miyajima monos are zero vertical compliance (so need to remember not to use them with stereo records or risk damage). The Ikeda and Kansui are set up to be interchangeable on the Ikeda arm around 28g, the rest are set up to be interchangeable on the SME at SPU weight, around 32g (varies according to what my target VTF is for each of them.

Thoughts on comparison? Well the first thought is that this is an embarrassment of riches.

My thoughts on the Kansui vs Ikeda vary from day to day. They are actually quite similar in character, both having a lot of energy, but there’s a humanity to the Kansui that draws me in - while having tons of detail and all the hifi attributes, it draws the listener in. The Ikeda does too but is maybe a bit more brightly lit, bolder, though it’s hard to say if detail suffers because of this, indeed it may even have a sharper soundstage. More dramatic anyway. There’s nothing between them in enjoyability, which actually means there’s lots between them as the Kansui retails at just over £2k, but the Ikeda at nearly £4k. Making the £2k cartridge something of a ‘bargain’. (all relative of course). Having said that the Ikeda is barely 30 sides in so I think it might have a wee way to go in settling down.

Where does the Royal N fit in? This has 95% of the detail, subtlety and focus of both of the above, but if anything more fun factor than either of them. The gold coils (in my opinion) give it a warmer, less detailed/focused presentation than the otherwise identical SPU Meister Silver (which I had some years ago and sold as a bit too 'cold' for my liking). The Royal N has a real fun-factor to it. One to boogie to (perfect for well-performed Mozart). And a truly ridiculous bargain (again relative!) at something like £1300 new. The reality is that any of these three could be my primary listen and I wouldn’t complain at all.

The Nasotec headshell deserves a mention. It has a sprung swing design that in theory enables the cartridge to even out any inner and outer groove distortion, effectively enabling it to act like a parallel tracker, without all the pumps, plumbing and kerfuffle. I definitely found an improvement against using the Royal N either in a standard headshell or in a 20g Fidelity Research headshell formerly used on my old FR64S (when I had it I made a point of collecting several of these). Needs more listening to confirm but I suspect that it kicks the Royal N up a price bracket, to compete more directly with the likes of the Kansui and Ikeda. I need to try it with the lowly SPU GM as well to see what effect it has there. Not outrageously priced either at £255.

I use the SPU GM mainly for older, 60s stuff especially that’s got a bit of wear on it - it sounds great on old Beatles and Stones albums, old 60s orchestral, stuff that maybe would have its flaws shown up too much by the highly resolving Nude Replicant or Shibata style. I don’t use it often but I’m glad it’s in the kitbag, and some nights I make a pile of suitable LPs just to give it a whirl.

On the mono side, I stick to my long-time assessment that the Miyajima Zero Mono is probably the best cartridge I’ve ever heard. It just does mono justice in a way that’s natural, has tons of front to back depth, plus massive width and impact (something to be experienced, if you haven’t heard mono done to this level of perfection).

The Premium 78 I dig out now and again, and the Orotofon Mono is handy for the really old stuff (I also have an Esoteric Re-Equalizer, for fixing the equalisation of pre-RIAA mono recordings, both LP and 78, more or less anything before about 1959, and some mono stuff afterwards, really benefit from this).

I think I now have near as dammit the perfect set for my tastes though I might possibly cull the stereo cartridges by one (not sure which one though). I’m still on the hunt for early mono ‘ SPU’ cartridges, for early mono groove or 78 reproduction, with different tip sizes - see what happens. If one came up at sensible money I’d be up for an Ikeda Mono cartridge - these (like some other ‘modern’ mono cartridges from, for example, Lyra) use modern fancy profile styli, unlike the conicals in the Miyajimas, so I’d expect the presentation to be somewhat different, and it could be interesting to see what emerges with mono reissues - and whether the likely extra detail dug out of the groove would enhance or degrade the mono experience.

On the phono stage front, my Aurorasound Vida continues to refuse to put a foot wrong. It may be a little fussy around preamps but given something suitable for ut (with gain and a sensible impedance on the input) it continues to work its magic better than any other phono stage I've had in the system.

[Ammonite Audio]

Good to hear that the Ikeda cartridge is fine - what was the problem when I was round at your place?

Good to read your comments about the Mono Zero B which chime entirely with those from one of my customers, and which encouraged me to fit one to the FR64S, with somewhat magnificent results (see my thread in Analogue Art).

[montesquieu]

Good to hear that the Ikeda cartridge is fine - what was the problem when I was round at your place?

Good to read your comments about the Mono Zero B which chime entirely with those from one of my customers, and which encouraged me to fit one to the FR64S, with somewhat magnificent results (see my thread in Analogue Art).

You were round the afternoon it arrived ... unfortunately the Ikeda headshell that accompanied it had some kind of fault, leading to one channel out, this went back and has been replaced with one that works fine. (I established within an hour of you heading off that the neither cartridge nor wiring was not to blame, thank goodness, but some fault in the headshell).

Indeed, the Zero is astonishingly good. I have a large number of mono records and while I've been into mono for quite a few years (and having previously owned modern-day mono cartridges from Lyra, AT, Denon, Ortofon, as well as previously a Miyajima Premium BE, to say nothing of the vintage ones from Fairchild, GE and Goldring) it's the Zero that's really taken things to another level.

[petrat]

Interesting post, Tom!

BTW, if anyone is wondering why he bothers with all this stuff ... what none of the photos show so far, is the wall of vinyl (mostly old classical recordings) to the right of the hifi.

[montesquieu]

Interesting post, Tom!

BTW, if anyone is wondering why he bothers with all this stuff ... what none of the photos show so far, is the wall of vinyl (mostly old classical recordings) to the right of the hifi.


Which wall would that be now ....

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/wall1_zpsgyfftipc.jpg

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/wall3_zpswc6otfg2.jpg

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/wall2_zpspjxssbq5.jpg

(not including quite a few boxes in dry storage and assorted piles elswhere around the house ....)

[pgarrish]

Which wall would that be now ....

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/wall1_zpsgyfftipc.jpg

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/wall3_zpswc6otfg2.jpg

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/wall2_zpspjxssbq5.jpg

(not including quite a few boxes in dry storage and assorted piles elswhere around the house ....)

By far the most impressive bit of any system :D No point having the rest with nothing to play on it!

[Barry]

How do you get to the records that are behind the right-hand speaker?

[montesquieu]

How do you get to the records that are behind the right-hand speaker?

It's not actually as tight as it looks in the photo .. but if I have to for some of them, I swing the speaker forward, and then back when I have the record in my hand.

[Reffc]

It's not actually as tight as it looks in the photo .. but if I have to for some of them, I swing the speaker forward, and then back when I have the record in my hand.

Tom now has the right bicep of a silver back Gorilla...

[Mika K]

Piles of vinyl.. hmm.. nice :D

[montesquieu]

Tonearm change .. bit of a tweak to the vinyl setup.

I had been enjoying the SME M2-12R but for all its vintage looks, it's very much a modern tonearm .. which I have already in the Ikeda. So I picked up an Ortofon RMG-309 Limited - special edition of the made in Japan 309i, itself a sort of reissue of the extremely vintage (1960s) original RMG-309. The 'Limited' part means it has an integral armholder and armlift missing from the original 309 and 309i, and also a super-cool sliding base like an SME (and fits on the SME armboard, so no need to re-drill which is a big plus).

The 309 is (like the Ikeda) a dynamic tonearm, though without any bias control (not that it seems to matter when you are tracking SPUs and Miyajimas at 4-5g). I think the spring tensioning helps somehow in reducing bias issues though I can't think of any physics for that.

So how does it sound? Very different indeed to the SME ... it probably doesn't have quite the dynamic punch which the SME managed to retain, a tough job for a 12incher, but it has a lovely way with timbre, tone and ambience, very Japanese DIY tubes and tannoys kind of feel - Jerry and Justin would hate it no doubt - but the music seems to slow down and bloom, and there's more space all around the players. And it seems to do that with all cartridges, elevating the performance of the humbler one like the good old SME GM Mk1, and absolutely stellar with the high-end stuff. It's wonderful with the Miyajima Monos and it very much likes the Royal N.

Change for difference's sake rather than absolute improvement 'as such', but done consciously as this was my intention for this second arm - the Ikeda can actually hold its own with anything out there for speed and dynamics and it's damn near a 10in arm anyway, so with proper setup and Stevenson alignment inner groove distortion isn't an issue - so why not something completely different in the No2 position?

Some (as usual, rather crappy) pics from my phone:

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/RMG309-1_zpsdwyvppx1.jpg

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/RMG309-3_zpsufwcrrxe.jpg

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/RMG309-2_zpsszbvvalw.jpg

[jandl100]

... Jerry and Justin would hate it no doubt ...]

Very true, I am sure!

But you and I parted ways in audio years ago when you got rid of those gorgeous modded Quad 'stats and started down the Tannoy Path. And the divergence gets ever-wider as time goes by! :)

[User211]

Why would I hate it?

[montesquieu]

Why would I hate it?

A touch soft and certainly not dynamic enough .. though I think you would like the tone colours.

[User211]

Talking of tonearms, I like this SME 3012 Series 2. For an old SME, I think it looks great.

Just thought I'd say.

BTW one of those TJ 2A3s broke about two months ago. They didn't last long. Got some KR PX-4s with UX4 bases on order but it'll be some wait as they have to make them on the next production run.

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11762&stc=1&d=1260485431

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11763&stc=1&d=1260485445

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11765&stc=1&d=1260485473

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11767&stc=1&d=1260485561

[jandl100]

A touch soft and certainly not dynamic enough .. though I think you would like the tone colours.

Why not just get Quad II amps and have done with it?

[walpurgis]

Why not just get Quad II amps and have done with it?

Very apt. I've owned them. :)

[montesquieu]

Why not just get Quad II amps and have done with it?


Too weedy for the Tannoys - to get the best out of them they need 50w minimum, a healthy current delivery and a decent (though not overbearing) damping factor. Quad IIs score pretty well on that list but nos as high as the big Radford or one of the bigger PP EAR amps (534, 890 etc).

[petrat]

Tonearm change .. bit of a tweak to the vinyl setup.

So I picked up an Ortofon RMG-309 Limited - special edition of the made in Japan 309i, itself a sort of reissue of the extremely vintage (1960s) original RMG-309

- so why not something completely different in the No2 position?

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/RMG309-3_zpsufwcrrxe.jpg



That looks like a lovely bit of engineering, Tom, and (as you describe it) a proper alternative to the Ikeda.
Looks like there'll be a turntable lid for sale soon :lol:

[montesquieu]

That looks like a lovely bit of engineering, Tom, and (as you describe it) a proper alternative to the Ikeda.
Looks like there'll be a turntable lid for sale soon :lol:


Actually the camera can lie .. just like it's possible to slide out records from behind the speaker in the pictures above (though in the pic it looks like I need to move the speaker every time) I can still get the lid on, at least when the arm is at rest ... a close thing though!

[montesquieu]

Talking of tonearms, I like this SME 3012 Series 2. For an old SME, I think it looks great.

Just thought I'd say.

BTW one of those TJ 2A3s broke about two months ago. They didn't last long. Got some KR PX-4s with UX4 bases on order but it'll be some wait as they have to make them on the next production run.

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11762&stc=1&d=1260485431

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11763&stc=1&d=1260485445

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11765&stc=1&d=1260485473

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11767&stc=1&d=1260485561


Love the brass bits on this.

[User211]

Love the brass bits on this.

I don't think they are stock. Has been tweaked a bit. Nice job.