View Full Version : Football hooliganism, why are England 'fans' [and it] seemingly such a natural fit?
{Moved from the Euro 2016 football thread}
Article Chris is referring to: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-36506553
In terms of what's contained in your article, Chris, it's indeed sad that innocent people are getting caught up in trouble, and there's no doubt that the police and authorities aren't whiter than white (who in many cases are simply thugs themselves in uniforms), *but* unfortunately mistakes are also going to be made by decent cops, when operating on orders for a 'zero tolerance' policy, when things kick off, against whatever or whomever is considered as a threat or disruptive element, in the short time they often have to assess for such, especially given the current terrorist climate and the type of society we now live in.
It's unfortunate, but inevitable. The question I'd like to ask is that, whilst other nations (including the Scots) are far from immune from having a hooligan element amongst their support, what is it *specifically* about the England team, or the English, which attracts the worst of these lunatics? Is there something inherent in the English mentality, which when amplified by those with a propensity for violence, lends itself to embracing hooliganism?
These waste-of-oxygen scum are not only a disgrace to humanity, but to the vast majority of decent England football fans, who go about their business in peace, but the fact is, the reputation of the England 'fans' now goes before them, so even before a ball is kicked, they're setting themselves up for punitive treatment or violence from local police or authorities, no matter where they go, simply because that's what the latter have been programmed to expect from England 'fans' - and it's something that no other nation, or its fans, suffers from to the same degree as England....
Why??? :hmm:
I look forward to your erudite insight, and that of others, on this matter whilst I have my lunch and enjoy the Turkey vs. Croatia game. Laters! :cool:
Marco.
P.S Just noted your comments, so will move all discussion about football hooliganism to a separate thread later.
Stratmangler
12-06-2016, 13:51
I can't defend the actions of such twats.
As you've pointed out this is not just an English problem.
One thing that has to be accepted is that those looking for trouble can usually find it.
There was aggro in Marseille in 1998, and I'm certain that the events of the last few days have been partly precipitated by what happened then.
The English twats will have known where to go for a bit of "fun" with the local twats.
And the local twats will have obliged.
The local authorities (Riot Police) are well known for their "sensitive" handling of trouble situations, and they will have been wound up and ready to go.
And they'll have laid into what they saw - English thugs kicking off.
They won't have seen the local thugs arriving or departing, because the locals will have come from nowhere and disappeared just as quickly, leaving the English thugs to the attention of the Riot Police.
The Russians turning up yesterday won't have helped, because their thugs will have wanted a piece of the action too.
I'm not defending anyone here, just pointing out the likely sequence of events.
You are talking very small numbers of people involved.
The effects will be far reaching.
I would like to know why there was no Police presence inside the stadium.
It's common enough at Premier League games for segregation lines to be maintained by stewards, but they're backed up by Police Officers should things get hairy.
So why not in Marseille?
I can't defend the actions of such twats.
As you've pointed out this is not just an English problem.
No, it definitely isn't just an English problem, but England fans (equally definitely) have the WORST reputation in the world for football hooliganism. History speaks for itself. Any idea why? Are they just misunderstood or unfortunate, or is it something deep-rooted and rather more insidious...?
Marco.
The trouble inside the stadium was caused by the ruskies anyways although England will no doubt get the most blame. Gotta be nice to Putin
Stratmangler
12-06-2016, 14:10
No, it definitely isn't just an English problem, but England fans (equally definitely) have the WORST reputation in the world for football hooliganism. Any idea why? Are they just misunderstood or unfortunate, or is it something rather more insidious...?
Marco.
Do they?
Our perception is that, but our news agencies leap on such incidents and make a proper meal of it.
And it suits the news agencies and the authorities to demonise and condemn football supporters, because it confirms their prejudices.
twickers
12-06-2016, 14:50
England may have had the reputation as the worst and obviously they still participate, but I think it's better policed in England. Better in and around the grounds.
Fighting at the football (or more usually before and after it) is a particular English sub-culture and is well documented in film and in books, usually written by the protaganists or former protaganists. They do it because it is a bit of a buzz. The practice in its purest form is to fight supporters from the opposing team who are up for fighting you, not just beat up anyone you see with an opposition scarf. That happens too, although it is frowned upon.
I only know this since I used to work with a few of them. I've not been to a match since 1979 and I was only a kid then.
Fighting at the football (or more usually before and after it) is a particular English sub-culture and is well documented in film and in books, usually written by the protaganists or former protaganists. They do it because it is a bit of a buzz. The practice in its purest form is to fight supporters from the opposing team who are up for fighting you, not just beat up anyone you see with an opposition scarf. That happens too, although it is frowned upon.
I only know this since I used to work with a few of them. I've not been to a match since 1979 and I was only a kid then.
Indeed, and it was a 'feature' of English (and Scottish) football long before it became a subject of films and books (there are plenty of 19th century and early 20th century newspaper reports of hooliganism). It was probably at its peak during those glorious days of the early 1970s when as we know everything was lovely and there was no crime anywhere, leave your front door open, bobbies on bicycles two by two, clip round the earhole never did me no harm, only robbed from their own etc etc.
he wife of England and Leicester striker Jamie Vardy has described being tear-gassed as violence flared before England's Euro 2016 tie with Russia.
Rebekah Vardy tweeted she was gassed and "caged" before England's match in Marseille on Saturday.
There were clashes in the streets and later some Russia fans appeared to rush at England supporters in the stadium.
Mrs Vardy said what she got caught up in was "horrific" and said the treatment of fans was "shocking".
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/921/C2yahB.png
'Mrs Vardy said what she got caught up in was "pretty normal for a big football tournament" and said the treatment of fans was "quite light touch by French standards".
Fixed that for her.
Nobody seems to have joined the dots regarding how much alcohol has to play in this? Brit's drink a lot on a global scale, especially our youth. They are abroad so drink more, it's a holiday right? Add football into the mix and it's the perfect storm. Alcohol and football is much more tightly controlled in the UK, but we like fighting as a nation, history tells us that and as Martin says it's part of football culture. As we like drinking too, which history also tells us, then it's going to happen, especially on booze fuelled 'boys trips'. We are and always have been prone to a bit of thuggery when we travel, again look at history. It's our conquering mentality.
Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk
Do they?
Our perception is that, but our news agencies leap on such incidents and make a proper meal of it.
It's not just our perception, mate. There's plenty of evidence confirming it, or at least that their reputation in general is dreadful, as they have a long history of violence.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall any other nation's football team and domestic clubs being banned from European competitions for five years (Liverpool FC, six years), as indeed happened in 1985, following the riot at Brussels' Heysel stadium?
Furthermore, in 1992, English hooligans caused violence and destruction at the European championship finals in Sweden, and in 1995, a friendly international between Republic of Ireland and England in Dublin was abandoned after 27 minutes when England fans rioted.
Then In June 2000, UEFA threatened to expel England from the Euro 2000 tournament after a weekend of trouble in Brussels and Charleroi saw 584 British citizens arrested... And here we are now with England being threatened once again with expulsion from this year's tournament, after similar behaviour from their hooligan 'fans'...
No, in my view, there is something fundamentally deep-rooted in the English psyche which leads the, shall we say, more boorish and unstable 'tribalistic types' to behave in that way, which Tim (and also Martin) have touched upon, and which I'll get to in a moment, after I've finished doing a few things.
Marco.
rigger67
13-06-2016, 09:51
We don't have the worst reputation in the world by any stretch of the imagination.
We're no angels, granted, but the organised groups across eastern Europe use the internet to arrange "meetings" with other clubs and this even happens between German and Dutch clubs if they meet in Europe.
If you go somewhere like the Czech Republic, Russia, Poland or any of those ex-Soviet nations, you'll see hooliganism on a regular basis.
It's generally restricted to groups of ultras and they generally keep it out of the stadia to avoid arrests and rarely take it into any highly populated areas. They'll look for wasteland to have a skirmish and they'll be tooled up, but as a rule they only want to fight each other.
I'm not condoning it - I abhor violence - but it's a different kind of hooliganism to the random, pished-up behaviour we had here in the 70s and 80s.
I've been to matches all over the world and was in South Africa in 2010 for six months around the World Cup.
It's the only one I've ever gone to as an "out" England fan because I just don't want to be anywhere near the mouth-breathers when they kick off in Europe.
I've been to Milan with 15,000 Celtic fans and there was not a hint of any fisticuffs, it was amazing and beautiful to be involved in.
I've also been in a Glasgow pub chatting to a Stuttgart fan in German and he asked me where I was from.
When I told him "Southampton, England, but I'm a Leeds fan" he took a step back, literally.
He couldn't believe I could speak his language and would be interested in having a conversation.
That's so sad.
There's gonna be loads of trouble in Russia in two years but equally there'll be thousands of police everywhere and undoubtedly a military presence for some of the tastier fixtures.
I'm more worried about Qatar though .. what a joke that is .. jeez .. don't get me started :(
There is of course no football-related violence at 'Old Firm' games in Scotland. These matches are noted for polite, gentlemanly behaviour, with the merest smidgen of friendly banter between rival fans.
Stratmangler
13-06-2016, 10:02
As I've already said, I cannot defend the actions of those who behave in such an atrocious manner.
I was appalled by what I saw in the vicinity of Wembley Stadium back in February - pissed up Liverpool supporters fighting amongst themselves and having a go at The Old Bill when they made efforts to put a halt to the trouble.
And this was before the game.
You didn't see it on the news, but trust me, it happened.
There's a bit of a theme with Liverpool supporters and fighting. You can draw your own conclusions.
I felt similarly at the Champions League game against Sevilla in Manchester.
The Sevilla supporters kicked off at something (I don't know what) and things got quite ugly, with missiles (coins and 2l bottles of drink) being thrown by them.
Those 2l bottles weigh in at 2 kilos when full, which is no joke if you get hit by one.
That didn't hit the news, but again trust me it happened.
Back to the Euros.
There was trouble in Nice (Poland v Northern Ireland)
There was trouble in Lille (Germany v Ukraine)
There was trouble in Paris (Turkey v Croatia)
Something common to all of the trouble is involvement by local hooligans.
There have been 6 games so far, and 4 of them have had problems with violence.
There is of course no football-related violence at 'Old Firm' games in Scotland. These matches are noted for polite, gentlemanly behaviour, with the merest smidgen of friendly banter between rival fans.
Did you miss this bit, Joe:
The question I'd like to ask is that, whilst other nations (including the Scots) are far from immune from having a hooligan element amongst their support...
Also, I don't recall Scotland, or any Scottish football club sides, being banned from any European competitions.... Might be useful to remove that misplaced 'patriotic tint' from your glasses, as it appears to be clouding reality ;)
Marco.
Well Rangers were actually....not that it was our fault... The started shooting at us;). That was silly
The Black Adder
13-06-2016, 10:27
We don't have the worst reputation in the world by any stretch of the imagination.
One Saturday afternoon, Sheffield around 4pm. I turned to go down a small alleyway called Chapel Walk leading from fargate towards the Crucible theatre. Three blokes, aged 40-50 kicking the shit out of a lad curled up on the floor against a street bin. The bin then ripped from it's base and one of them picked it up and preceeded to bash the lad with it, repeated it a few times before the bin rolled/bounced away. He the continued to put his boot in his stomach.
The police came and apparently it was 3 dutch blokes kicking the crap out of another dutch bloke because he lost the train tickets to the match.
:mental:
Every country has football hooligans.
Hi Paul,
You make some good points :)
We don't have the worst reputation in the world by any stretch of the imagination.
We're no angels, granted, but the organised groups across eastern Europe use the internet to arrange "meetings" with other clubs and this even happens between German and Dutch clubs if they meet in Europe.
Ok, I guess that "worst reputation" is subjective, but the notoriously bad reputation of England fans (or rather the small number of their hooligan element) is certainly 'up there with the best', as it were, and there is plenty of evidence to confirm that, as I've already outlined.
If you go somewhere like the Czech Republic, Russia, Poland or any of those ex-Soviet nations, you'll see hooliganism on a regular basis.
It's generally restricted to groups of ultras and they generally keep it out of the stadia to avoid arrests and rarely take it into any highly populated areas. They'll look for wasteland to have a skirmish and they'll be tooled up, but as a rule they only want to fight each other.
I'm not condoning it - I abhor violence - but it's a different kind of hooliganism to the random, pished-up behaviour we had here in the 70s and 80s.
...and indeed just the other day in France, so what's changed since then? Not much. And crucially, how would you define the difference in hooliganism between the "pished up" variety of the England fans, and that which the Russians and Polish, etc, are guilty of committing?
I've been to matches all over the world and was in South Africa in 2010 for six months around the World Cup.
It's the only one I've ever gone to as an "out" England fan because I just don't want to be anywhere near the mouth-breathers when they kick off in Europe.
Lol... So what do you think is responsible for breeding these so-called "mouth-breathers", amongst the English support, and is it a uniquely English phenomenon?
I've been to Milan with 15,000 Celtic fans and there was not a hint of any fisticuffs, it was amazing and beautiful to be involved in.
Indeed. Although, not all of them are angels, Celtic's travelling fans have one of best reputations in the world for being friendly and well-behaved. Never mind 15,000 in Milan, there were 80,000 of them in Seville, in 2003, at the UEFA Cup Final, and there's wasn't even a hint of trouble: http://www.celticfc.net/news/5927
Now, can you imagine if that had been Millwall or Chelsea fans instead? :eek:
I've also been in a Glasgow pub chatting to a Stuttgart fan in German and he asked me where I was from.
When I told him "Southampton, England, but I'm a Leeds fan" he took a step back, literally.
He couldn't believe I could speak his language and would be interested in having a conversation.
That's so sad.
Indeed it is. However, you bucked the trend of the (too often) usual arrogant English tourists, who when visiting other countries, expect everyone else to speak English :doh: Although you were only in Glasgow, the German chap would've been astounded that you were able to speak German!
I believe that most English football fans are like you, and good ambassadors for their country, but there is a hard-core element of thugs, who seem to attach themselves to the England team more than teams from the other home nations.
Has there been any trouble reported in France, at this tournament so far, from Welsh or Irish fans? Not that I'm aware of. So why is that, I wonder? They like a drink too, do they not (or are they all tea total), so why are they able to have a drink and behave like human beings, and the English fans aren't...? :hmm:
Marco.
Well Rangers were actually....not that it was our fault... The started shooting at us;). That was silly
Lol... So there was one incidence of it? That hardly bears comparison, in that respect, with English teams.
Marco.
Also, I don't recall Scotland, or any Scottish football club sides, being banned from any European competitions.... Might be useful to remove that misplaced 'patriotic tint' from your glasses, as it appears to be clouding reality ;)
Marco.
Note to self: add more smilies. As for 'patriotic tint', I'm more Scottish than English, and, indeed, more Scottish than you!
Apparently six Brits, three French and an Austrian are appearing in court in Marseille today following the weekends events. 150 well trained Russian hooligans are implicated in these events, but none were caught by the police.
A colleague who went to Marseille told me that it appears to have been planned, and the shops and bars closed for an hour just before it kicked off. There was also a lack of police presence at the time of the attacks, but I take his with a pinch of salt. He is certainly not one to cause trouble, and did the same manly thing that I would do - turn tail and run away.
Hi Tim,
In my view, you hit the nail on the head firmly, here:
Nobody seems to have joined the dots regarding how much alcohol has to play in this? Brit's drink a lot on a global scale, especially our youth. They are abroad so drink more, it's a holiday right? Add football into the mix and it's the perfect storm.
So what fuels the British obsession for heavy drinking at home and abroad? It's a mentality I would dearly love to understand, but simply can't fathom. There's got to be more to life than just getting blind drunk, surely? :)
And here, I believe you identify the *true* root of the problem, in terms of what breeds English football hooligans:
Alcohol and football is much more tightly controlled in the UK, but we like fighting as a nation, history tells us that and as Martin says it's part of football culture. As we like drinking too, which history also tells us, then it's going to happen, especially on booze fuelled 'boys trips'. We are and always have been prone to a bit of thuggery when we travel, again look at history. It's our conquering mentality.
For me, the emboldened text says it all, especially that last sentence!
There is too much of that arrogant and boorish unjustified sense of superiority: 'WE ARE ENGLAND', 'WE ARE ENGLISH', 'WE ARE THE PEOPLE' nonsense ingrained in the English psyche, as you say over centuries, from the days when you were conquerors, and that attitude still manifests itself today in various ways, such as we're seeing with the hooligan element amongst English football fans.
These people need to understand and accept that England isn't any more special or 'greater' than any other country, and to lose that unjustified sense of superiority, which gets the backs up of and is resented by every other nation in Europe.
Perhaps *that* is why England fans are so often *targeted* by thugs from other countries, simply because they've earned themselves that kind of haughty 'we are the greatest' reputation, which others want to take down a peg or two?
Now, I would of course once again stress that we're talking about a TINY MINORITY of English people or English football fans here, but nevertheless an active and significant one.
This fighting amongst football thugs is a bit like it is in the gangland world, or with a school bully: when setting yourself up as 'top dog' and of the most notorious and violent people around, or the best fighter, there's always someone else out there bigger and badder than you, seeking to steal your reputation and be the top dog instead!
Perhaps that's why England football hooligans *attract* so much trouble from foreign football hooligans, in the first place, and why the humbler Scottish, Welsh and Irish fans, in general, seem to escape such adverse attention or provocation? ;)
Marco.
Note to self: add more smilies. As for 'patriotic tint', I'm more Scottish than English, and, indeed, more Scottish than you!
Ha - well, you see, despite what you think, your use of language alone doesn't *always* succeed in portraying what you want it to portray! ;)
Time for a smiley rethink, perhaps?
Marco.
Thing is those same thugs (or strictly their thuggy ancestors) saved the French and Italians (and the rest of the world) from Napoleon and more recently the Nazis. As the Duke of Wellington said about his troops: I don't know what effect they will have on the enemy but my God they terrify me.'
Yes, there has always been a culture of drinking and violence in England, go to any provincial market town on a Friday or Saturday night. It goes back hundreds if not a thousand or more years. It isn't ever going to change.
On the other hand we are the English, no-one likes us, we don't care. Some French refer to England as 'The Isle of Pigs'. Not so disparaging when we came to save them from Nazi Germany, were they? But as Merlin says in 'Excalibur': 'It is the doom of Men: that they forget.'
Heysel is a good example - Juventus fans start bricking otherwise peaceful Liverpool fans, the fans complain to the police who do nothing. So they charge the Juventus pen to put a stop to it, there is a stampede to escape from them and due to the stadium being a shithole and unfit for purpose, some people are killed by a collapsing wall.
The fault is with the Italian fans and the incompetent Belgian police and authorities. But so much easier to blame it on the English, especially as so many English are so quick to denigrate their own country and countrymen; something which makes me sick, frankly.
Thing is those same thugs (or strictly their thuggy ancestors) saved the French and Italians (and the rest of the world) from Napoleon and more recently the Nazis. As the Duke of Wellington said about his troops: I don't know what effect they will have on the enemy but my God they terrify me.'
He also referred to them as 'the scum of the earth'. Another perspective on this love/hate relationship is provided by Kipling in his poem 'Tommy':
I WENT into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ;
But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
Ha- well, you see, despite what you think, your use of language alone doesn't *always* succeed in portraying what you want it to portray! ;)
Time for a smiley rethink, perhaps?
Marco.
Most people seem to get what I mean without them. I've never used them much, and will continue to ration my use of them carefully, to save bandwidth.
rigger67
13-06-2016, 11:47
You didn't see it on the news, but trust me, it happened.
There's a bit of a theme with Liverpool supporters and fighting. You can draw your own conclusions.
Absolutely !!
Nobody will say it because you can't criticise Liverpool "fans" after Hillsborough.
They're a timebomb.
Something's gonna happen again with that lot and it's not gonna be pretty :steam:
Another problem is the myth-making and glorification of hooliganism over the past few years, with many books and a few films revelling in nostalgia for the days when fans got 'tooled up' for some 'tasty action' with rival firms. It's on a par with the cult surrounding the Krays and other famous villains, and may have something to do with the relatively safe, sanitised lives many people lead these days.
Thing is those same thugs (or strictly their thuggy ancestors) saved the French and Italians (and the rest of the world) from Napoleon and more recently the Nazis. As the Duke of Wellington said about his troops: I don't know what effect they will have on the enemy but my God they terrify me.'
Lol.... Well, if that's the case, why not instead learn to channel that aggression in a more constructive way?
Yes, there has always been a culture of drinking and violence in England, go to any provincial market town on a Friday or Saturday night. It goes back hundreds if not a thousand or more years. It isn't ever going to change.
Indeed, but that doesn't make it right. So do we just shrug our shoulders and say 'hey-ho, that's the way it is', and bury our heads in the sand, or try and do something about it? Perhaps if we did, it might save a few lives in future? Quite simply, one life lost as a result of football hooliganism, is one life too many!
Heysel is a good example - Juventus fans start bricking otherwise peaceful Liverpool fans, the fans complain to the police who do nothing.
There was NO excuse for the apathetic behaviour of the police, or the behaviour of the Juventus fans, but like I said before, might the Juventus fans have been taunting the Liverpool fans simply because of the wider reputation of English football fans, and so thought they'd want to 'have a go'? For me, that reputation is a BIG part of the problem. It's often what initiates conflict.
So they charge the Juventus pen to put a stop to it, there is a stampede to escape from them and due to the stadium being a shithole and unfit for purpose, some people are killed by a collapsing wall.
The fault is with the Italian fans and the incompetent Belgian police and authorities.
Yes, superficially, one could look at it like that, and undoubtedly that was mainly responsible for why the tragedy occurred. However, would the initial confrontation have even happened in the first place, had it been, say, Celtic who had been playing Juventus? Would the Juventus fans have tried to provoke trouble? We'll never know, but I suspect not, for reasons already mentioned.
There has to be some accountability for England football hooligans being the way they are, and it's not something that can be glibly brushed aside either, or justified. It's way too serious a problem to be treated so lightly.
But so much easier to blame it on the English, especially as so many English are so quick to denigrate their own country and countrymen; something which makes me sick, frankly.
Surely you're entitled to denigrate your own country and countrymen when their behaviour merits it? Or are you saying that you condone their disgracefully bad behaviour, simply because it's unpatriotic to be critical?
That attitude smacks of the same blinkered one as parents often have, who can't see past how 'wonderful' their 'little darlings' are, and refuse to acknowledge how wrong they've been, when they've behaved in the most appalling way, smashing someone's windows, been abusive towards a teacher, or whatever, and should've been punished for it rather than simply patted on the head...! :rolleyes:
You have to hold your hands up and ADMIT when you, or someone close to you, or your country is in the wrong, and take suitable steps to make amends in future.
I can assure you, beyond question, that had it been Italian or Scots fans, who had been guilty of causing the riots in France, such as we've seen, I wouldn't be defending them in any way, shape or form, as I'd have been too deeply ashamed and embarrassed! :o
Marco.
rigger67
13-06-2016, 12:01
Hey Marco
Good post, mate - and thanks for your kind words :)
...and indeed just the other day in France, so what's changed since then? Not much. And crucially, how would you define the difference in hooliganism between the "pished up" variety of the England fans, and that which the Russians and Polish, etc, are guilty of committing?
The Russians in France are not only tooled up, some are also wearing protective padding. They're also sober and highly organised - this information is from the media today, this morning actually.
Regarding league football over there, it's a combination of vodka for Dutch courage and the organised hoolie elements I described before. They plan it, they want it and they enjoy it .. but they'll have a drink first to get themselves psyched up.
Lol... So what do you think is responsible for breeding these so-called "mouth-breathers", amongst the English support, and is it a uniquely English phenomenon?
It's cultural and tied in with our drinking, I think.
It's not just football and it's not just men.
I think if you look at any Friday or Saturday night in towns and cities across England you'll see people pished up, looking for a bit of action of one kind or the other.
Little Bloke Syndrome dictates that if he doesn't pull he'll start a fight.
Take that syndrome abroad when you're on holiday and it multiplies not just because they're specifically there to get lashed but also because there's peer pressure and machismo thrown into the mix. Put them into competition with other British or foreign males and it's ramped up again.
Now throw in some football to squeeze every last tribal drop out of them and the whole thing will blow up.
Other nations don't have our drinking culture.
The French, Italians, Spanish, Portuguese, Belgians and Scandi nations will enjoy a few beers or glasses of wine and then stop.
We can't do that.
We can't stop.
I've got a Spanish girlfriend and I've been out with all kinds of nationalities before her and I see it in myself when I'm out with her or previous girls - I like to get pished once in a while.
She can't remember the last time she did .. probably when she was 17.
Indeed. Although, not all of them are angels, Celtic's travelling fans have one of best reputations in the world for being friendly and well-behaved. Never mind 15,000 in Milan, there were 80,000 of them in Seville, in 2003, at the UEFA Cup Final, and there's wasn't even a hint of trouble.
Now, can you imagine if that had been Millwall or Chelsea fans instead?
Interesting point, made all the more current by the fact that thousands of Liverpool fans went to the UEFA final without tickets urged on by Jurgen Klopp and they caused loads of trouble. Again, not much of it was reported.
Shocking behaviour and irresponsible travel advice from their coach.
Indeed it is. However, you bucked the trend of the (too often) usual arrogant English tourists, who when visiting other countries, expect everyone else to speak English :doh: Although you were only in Glasgow, the German chap would've been astounded that you were able to speak German!
I believe that most English football fans are like you, and good ambassadors for their country, but there is a hard-core element of thugs, who seem to attach themselves to the England team more than teams from other home nations.
Agreed.
Thanks for that.
I speak French and know a few bits in Italian and Russian too, so I can say hello and have a beer with most of Europe :cool:
There are LOADS of great England fans, but they do have trouble getting the message across that we're not all lunatics when people take a step back when they find out where you're from.
The Welsh ??
Cardiff have some of the worst domestic fans going .. proper nasty thugs, using "English" as an excuse to tear up towns across the land.
But then they had Sam Hammam winding them up for years .. fit and proper person, my arse :scratch:
Most people seem to get what I mean without them. I've never used them much, and will continue to ration my use of them carefully, to save bandwidth.
You might think that, but you don't know for sure, as not everyone will comment or respond in a way that informs you when you're wrong... Don't worry about saving bandwidth - that's my concern.
In all seriousness, I simply don't *get* what others and you dislike so much about (selectively) using smileys. The wink one alone is very effective, when strategically placed, and thus leaves little room for any misconceptions about the tone of what was written.
So, enlighten me, why are you so much against them?
Marco.
So, enlighten me, why are you so much against them?
Marco.
IMO, they equate to explaining a joke, or laughing whilst telling one; 'look, this is me being funny, what am I like?' I prefer understatement.
rigger67
13-06-2016, 12:08
I seem to have gone over some of the same ground as others here - sorry about that, but in a way it only reinforces what we're saying.
We're an island race : it makes us arrogant.
We also had a recent empire : it makes us arrogant.
We speak the world's first language : it makes us arrogant.
We are cultural leaders and creators : it makes us arrogant.
We are industrial pioneers and innovators : it makes us arrogant.
I prefer to describe myself as confident though .. ;)
I seem to have gone over some of the same ground as others here - sorry about that, but in a way it only reinforces what we're saying.
We're an island race : it makes us arrogant.
We also had a recent empire : it makes us arrogant.
We speak the world's first language : it makes us arrogant.
We are cultural leaders and creators : it makes us arrogant.
We are industrial pioneers and innovators : it makes us arrogant.
I prefer to describe myself as confident though .. ;)
Nice analysis . But you would have thought most of us realise we are not so special any more , or is that another subconscious thing that may rile some lame heads up ,even more?
And u wonder why folk are deserting footy , or at least going to games etc... Used to go to games, especially Euro games but stopped as their were far too many animals on both sides in Scottish games and Scots in Euro games. I dont miss it, and wont ever be back.
Absolutely !!
Nobody will say it because you can't criticise Liverpool "fans" after Hillsborough.
They're a timebomb.
Something's gonna happen again with that lot and it's not gonna be pretty :steam:
It was people vilifying Liverpool supporters that caused the deaths at Hillsborough and people vilifying Liverpool supporters that enabled the police to cover their incompetence for almost three decades.
What a shame that so many had to die in order that it should stop.
IMO, they equate to explaining a joke, or laughing whilst telling one; 'look, this is me being funny, what am I like?' I prefer understatement.
Fair enough, but I don't consider the odd, strategically placed smiley, as 'overstatement'. I'm not asking you to plaster your posts with them.
Marco.
Stratmangler
13-06-2016, 12:23
And u wonder why folk are deserting footy , or at least going to games etc... Used to go to games, especially Euro games but stopped as their were far too many animals on both sides in Scottish games and Scots in Euro games. I dont miss it, and wont ever be back.
You've pinpointed things to 1992 and/or 1996.
And that's also part of the reason why the Scots haven't got a bad reputation at the Euros - they were the only 2 years they qualified for the Euros from 1968 to the present.
Prior to 1968 they didn't enter the competion.
. So do we just shrug our shoulders and say 'hey-ho, that's the way it is',
Pretty much, yes. I'm not condoning it and those who are involved and are caught should be punished. But there is no 'solution' so no point looking for one. Every nation has some lads who like to get drunk and start fights, to suggest it is a specifically English problem is incorrect. The English just get spotlit because they are the English and every other nationality in Europe enjoys having a pop at us. Confirming people's prejudices always sells newspapers and gets viewers.
Smillies are very important when your a droll poster joe. Stops mistaken meanings ...well sometimes... But i know some well learned folk feel no need for them
You've pinpointed things to 1992 and/or 1996.
And that's also part of the reason why the Scots haven't got a bad reputation at the Euros - they were the only 2 years they qualified for the Euros from 1968 to the present.
Prior to 1968 they didn't enter the competion.
And not likely to again... By euro i was talking club games... Was only at 2 scotland games at hampden.. Both had sell out plus crowds of near 80k... Crushing was horrendus and that is one of the scarey things in football when a mass moves behind you and you cant
Pretty much, yes. I'm not condoning it and those who are involved and are caught should be punished. But there is no 'solution' so no point looking for one.
That's a rather defeatist attitude isn't it?
How do you know that there isn't, not so much a solution to the problem, but something that might help improve matters, such as educating kids from an early age to respect alcohol, rather than abuse it? As Paul's pointed out, alcohol abuse is a major contributory factor towards the ensuing violence committed by football fans, especially by Brits.
Every nation has some lads who like to get drunk and start fights, to suggest it is a specifically English problem is incorrect.
No-one's saying that, of course not, but as evidence proves, it is a big English problem, more so than it is for most other countries.
The English just get spotlit because they are the English and every other nationality in Europe enjoys having a pop at us. Confirming people's prejudices always sells newspapers and gets viewers.
Lol - I suggest that you read Rigger's admirably honest post, outlining English arrogance (which I'll get to later), for a badly needed realty check. Quite simply, the English football fans (who deserve it) get the adverse reaction and criticism that they deserve.
In life, you earn the reputation your behaviour creates, so that's precisely why there's prejudice against English football fans (the minority who create their bad reputation) from the rest of Europe. It's simply indisputable reality, no matter what is printed in the papers.
If you don't want that prejudice to exist, then do something to improve your behaviour. It's *that* simple!
Right, I shall return to this later, as I'm just about to settle down for lunch and watch the Spain vs. Czech Republic game, whilst enjoying a GLASS of wine with my pasta, not a full bottle!! :ner:;)
Marco.
It's not just the English. Here are links from the French press for a different flavour view.
http://lci.tf1.fr/france/faits-divers/euro-2016-sept-blesses-dans-une-rixe-impliquant-des-supports-8750588.html?xtmc=nice&xtcr=3
http://lci.tf1.fr/sport/euro-2016-incidents-a-nice-entre-supporters-nicois-et-irlandais-8750583.html?xtmc=nice&xtcr=4
http://lci.tf1.fr/france/faits-divers/flambee-de-violences-a-marseille-10-personnes-de-5-nationalites-8750604.html?xtmc=nice&xtcr=2
No-one's saying it's *just* the English, Kevin. I keep repeating that point. However, the disgraceful behaviour of the hooligan element amongst their support is unquestionably a significant part of the problem! :)
Marco.
The thread title isn't great then.
In your opinion, perhaps. Others and I happen to think that England 'fans' and football hooliganism fit very well indeed, but as also pointed out, they're not the only country to have problems in that area.
Marco.
I just don't see it as anything to get concerned about. The French police are more than capable of cracking a few skulls if they have to, in the grand scheme of things it is trivial and involves 0.00001% of the England fans. This does seem to me like another 'let's put the English down' thing sprinkled with a bit of moral outrage, and I'm not good with moral outrage, faux or not.
Virtual-Symmetry
13-06-2016, 16:52
What i get concerned about is those young kids in the crowd with their parents.
Inclined to agree in some ways with both. Its always the way that big clubs and countries attract these people like flies. Not sure it can be stopped easily, and its not usually the clubs or the countries fault. Banning England would just hurt the good fans, as the bad ones dont give a shit about the football as such
I just don't see it as anything to get concerned about. The French police are more than capable of cracking a few skulls if they have to, in the grand scheme of things it is trivial and involves 0.00001% of the England fans. This does seem to me like another 'let's put the English down' thing sprinkled with a bit of moral outrage, and I'm not good with moral outrage, faux or not.
Well, you and I obviously live in very different worlds then, Martin!
I'm afraid that 'the English' are pretty good on their own at 'putting themselves down', based on how they often behave, and not just at football matches either. However, that aside, those 0.00001% of England fans seem capable of causing enough trouble to warrant the England team being disqualified from the tournament, so hardly a 'storm in a teacup'...
Honestly, you do have a rather unique way of looking at the world sometimes and shrugging your shoulders at stuff that really warrants an entirely different and more adult response! :doh:
Marco.
A ban would just be seen as a badge of honour by the troublemakers anyway.
After Heysel I got sick of imaginative Everton fans telling me how we denied them a European Cup which they would have won had Liverpool not got the English teams banned from Europe. That's so wrong on so many levels it is hard to know where to even begin.
Banning England would just hurt the good fans, as the bad ones dont give a shit about the football as such
Indeed, and I sincerely hope that doesn't happen.
However, all it'll take are a few more louts to kick off like before, and the England team will be home before the postcards, but of course if that happens, for some it'll be 'no big deal' and nothing to worry about, not to mention the tens of thousands of Euros of damage these wankers have caused to various shops and properties, because they 'like to get pissed and have a ruck'... :rolleyes:
Who pays for all that?? Honestly, it beggars belief! :doh:
Marco.
Here's a great set of lyrics from the mighty Half Man Half Biscuit about the changes introduced to make football a 'family game'
When I had my loft
Converted back into a loft
The neighbours came around and scoffed
And called me retro
But they are the type
Who never used to go to the match
Until the family thing got big
In the late eighties
Dad’s a steward in the stand
Brace of comps in his hand
New men run a creche
While home defeats by Jeunesse D’Esch
In the Lux Familiar cup
Are rendered pointless
Stick a burger in my mouth
Shove a seat beneath my arse
Buy the shirt and shorts and socks
Win the keeper’s sweaty jocks
Point a gun down at your foot
Am I supposed to be at home?
Friday night and the gates are low
And it’s raining
Bastard slip of a sub’s ruined my weekend
So you came and went
‘Cos on crap three million was spent
And if Josh wants a five man tent
There must be forfeits
Star man said bye bye
And now you’re reaching for the Sky
Sit back relax and watch us die
Of entertainment
Fiancee said that it was fun
Even though the others won
I can’t stand any more
‘Cos I can’t stand anymore
You were blind but you will see
Tonight’s attendance one-two-three
Friday night and the gates are low
And it’s raining
Bastard slip of a sub’s ruined my weekend
Friday night and I just love complaining
And no I haven’t got anything better to do
England may have had the reputation as the worst and obviously they still participate, but I think it's better policed in England. Better in and around the grounds.
Brit hooligans traditionally behave a lot worst abroad than at home and they are renowned for it. Go to any holiday destination in europe and ask the locals.
Imagine any nation doing the same in the UK?
Go to any town centre in the UK late on a Friday or Saturday you'll be likely to see at least a bit of brawling at some point, possibly worse.
Once came out of a basement nightclub years ago (that later became the original 'Cream') into a gun battle between two gangs. Two people were killed. That was years ago and in Liverpool mind. But compared to that chucking some patio furniture about is a bit tame.
"I don't see anything terrible about fans fighting. Quite the opposite, the guys did well. Keep it up!"
Igor Lebedev, nationalist MP and executive member of Russian Football Union
Pretty much says it all doesnt it?
Yes he's quite a comedian.
Marco.
One thing about yer Russkies - they are all hard-core individuals. The birds too.
One thing about yer Russkies - they are all hard-core individuals. The birds too.
Well they think they are. The didnt do well in the likes of afghanistan, who are hard nuts.
twickers
14-06-2016, 15:34
These Russian yobs are the 'Ultras' or summat. Some wear body armour, are well trained and don't drink. Bit different from the common garden variety hooligan.
walpurgis
14-06-2016, 15:46
These Russian yobs are the 'Ultras' or summat. Some wear body armour, are well trained and don't drink. Bit different from the common garden variety hooligan.
I've never met a Russian who didn't drink. And yes, I know a few.
One thing about yer Russkies - they are all hard-core individuals. The birds too.
Indeed, and apparently you can claim free Nectar points on ebay, with all purchases of Russian brides, if you go for one of their 'weekend specials'... I even know someone who bought one and named her Nadezhda :eyebrows:;)
Marco.
twickers
14-06-2016, 16:09
I've never met a Russian who didn't drink. And yes, I know a few.
They probably have a 'swift half' to unwind.
Indeed, and apparently you can claim free Nectar points on ebay, with all purchases of Russian brides, if you go for one of their 'weekend specials'... I even know someone who bought one and named her Nadezhda :eyebrows:;)
Marco.
Really? Who was that, then?
Pal of mine was looking on one of those Dating sites but turns out the Russian birds don't like men who drink heavily (which is why they are not after a Russian husband) and he's an alcoholic. Some stunning looking girls, though.
Pal of mine was looking on one of those Dating sites but turns out the Russian birds don't like men who drink heavily (which is why they are not after a Russian husband) and he's an alcoholic. Some stunning looking girls, though.
Ha! Does he declare himself to be an alcoholic? I can't imagine women of any nationality being particularly keen on a wino for a partner.
Yes, pretty much. But he is wealthy and lives alone in a large, well appointed house. IME women can overlook a lot of faults if a bloke is wealthy.
Yes, pretty much. But he is wealthy and lives alone in a large, well appointed house. IME women can overlook a lot of faults if a bloke is wealthy.
Fair enough. Plus I guess that winos tend not to live very long, so it wouldn't be too long a wait for him to cash in his chips. The woman would need to get a prenup sorted of course in case he went doolally.
Indeed, and apparently you can claim free Nectar points on ebay, with all purchases of Russian brides, if you go for one of their 'weekend specials'... I even know someone who bought one and named her Nadezhda :eyebrows:;)
Marco.
Tut.
Fair enough. Plus I guess that winos tend not to live very long, so it wouldn't be too long a wait for him to cash in his chips. The woman would need to get a prenup sorted of course in case he went doolally.
What he actually wants is a maid and prostitute. But he's tried brasses and it didn't work for him. He's a misogynist. And a misanthrope. And my oldest surviving friend.
Yes, pretty much. But he is wealthy and lives alone in a large, well appointed house. IME women can overlook a lot of faults if a bloke is wealthy.
Yes, but why would you want to marry or be associated with a gold digger? You marry for LOVE (man or woman), no other reason is viable in the long term. There also needs to be mutual respect on both sides.
Marco.
Yes, but why would you want to marry or be associated with a gold digger? You marry for LOVE (man or woman), no other reason is viable in the long term. There also needs to be mutual respect on both sides.
Marco.
Better than nowt for some blokes. Plus see my post above.
What he actually wants is a maid and prostitute. But he's tried brasses and it didn't work for him. He's a misogynist. And a misanthrope. And my oldest surviving friend.
Lol - he sounds like a hoot! However, if he's your friend, he's your friend :)
Marco.
I liked the quote about Thomas Carlyle and his wife Jane: 'So kind of Mr and Mrs Carlyle to marry each other, thus making only two people miserable rather than four'.
I liked the quote about Thomas Carlyle and his wife Jane: 'So kind of Mr and Mrs Carlyle to marry each other, thus making only two people miserable rather than four'.
That's a classic.
Seriously though I've known the bloke 30 years next year and one time when I was in a bind he offered to help me out. Not financially which would have been easy for him, but at some inconvenience to himself. I didn't ask he just offered. You don't forget that. Or at least I don't.
That's a classic.
Seriously though I've known the bloke 30 years next year and one time when I was in a bind he offered to help me out. Not financially which would have been easy for him, but at some inconvenience to himself. I didn't ask he just offered. You don't forget that. Or at least I don't.
I quite like miserable sods, myself. It's why I'm so fond of Half Man Half Biscuit.
People marry for lots of reasons. Love is rarely the main reason, although its oft cited as the reason. Nothing wrong with it as long as both are aware of it, or one doesnt care.
That's cool. Selfless acts are what REAL friends do for each other! :)
I've done plenty of things like that for good friends, and received it back, too. You can also tell your REAL friends from the fake variety, who in reality are just there for what they can get from you.
Real friends will stick by you when you're ill, need help and are vulnerable, and the latter (above) will run for the hills and you won't see them for dust! :rolleyes:
Marco.
People marry for lots of reasons. Love is rarely the main reason, although its oft cited as the reason. Nothing wrong with it as long as both are aware of it, or one doesnt care.
Not in my experience, mate. Never known anyone, friends or family who've married and didn't love each other, so for me that's the norm (especially within Christian society, as the vows are very important to our religion). All are, or have been, in long marriages and have been faithful to their partners throughout.
Love and/or friendship/companionship, the latter which generally applies to older folks, are IMO the only PROPER reasons for getting married. Del and I will be celebrating our 25th wedding anniversary this year, and every year has been nothing but bliss. You won't last that long together, and remain HAPPY, if you don't love and respect one another.
However, as you correctly say, whatever works between two consenting adults :)
Marco.
People are complex and I don't think we like that so we tend to simplify and pigeon-hole. Or judge based on a few characteristics or actions.
Like the hooligans. I said earlier I used to work with a few. Top blokes, would give you their last quid. But they really liked a ruck, providing the opponent was up for it the same way. Never saw them pick on anyone or chuck their weight about.
I quite like miserable sods, myself.
If they've got a dry sense of humour, or some some amiable traits, then fine, but if they're just miserable grumps all the time, then I detest that. I like smiley, happy, uncomplicated people with kind hearts, which is what I'm used to in my own life, and struggle to deal with the opposite.
Marco.
People are complex and I don't think we like that so we tend to simplify and pigeon-hole. Or judge based on a few characteristics or actions.
Like the hooligans. I said earlier I used to work with a few. Top blokes, would give you their last quid. But they really liked a ruck, providing the opponent was up for it the same way. Never saw them pick on anyone or chuck their weight about.
It was weird at school. Two of my best mates decided to become skinheads. Overnight they went from looking 'ordinary' to looking like thugs, so walking down the street with them felt different somehow, a bit 'edgier'. Some time later, when I got the shit kicked out of me one night by six skinheads, my mates kept saying, 'Look, not all skins are like that', even though I knew for a fact that one of them at least liked a good scrap.
Like the hooligans. I said earlier I used to work with a few. Top blokes, would give you their last quid. But they really liked a ruck, providing the opponent was up for it the same way. Never saw them pick on anyone or chuck their weight about.
Yes, but I think those are a rather different type from the scum causing riots now in France. If you like folk like that, you're on your own, as I can't stand people who only think about themselves and have no concern for how their actions impact on others!!
How do you think the decent England fans, or innocent holidaymakers there in Marseille, etc, feel about being caught up in the behaviour of those hooligans?
Do you think that their actions will have improved their holiday, enjoyment of the football tournament, or made them comfortable in any way? What about the innocent shopkeepers who've had all their property ruined as a result of their neanderthal behaviour and selfishness?
But no, the hooligans don't think of any that, do they? It's all about what THEY want!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I know what I'd do with them. If they want to fight, then do it somewhere private, away from the general public, where their loutish actions won't impact on innocent people.
Marco.
If they've got a dry sense of humour, or some some amiable traits, then fine, but if they're just miserable grumps all the time, then I detest that. I like smiley, happy, uncomplicated people with kind hearts, which is what I'm used to in my own life, and struggle to deal with the opposite.
Marco.
I agree there has to be a degree of dry humour involved, otherwise it's just depressing. I like the Carter Brandon books by Peter Tinniswood, which typify the slightly pessimistic outlook many Northerners have. My favourite is Uncle Mort, one of whose sayings is 'Life is like a pint of London bitter; it doesn't last forever, thank God'.
And the genius of HMHB's Nigel Blackwell:
My Uncle Charlie is a cynical man
And his wife's a touch sceptical too
They've got one of those stickers in the back of their car
It says 'We've seen the prices at the Zoo'.
It was weird at school. Two of my best mates decided to become skinheads. Overnight they went from looking 'ordinary' to looking like thugs, so walking down the street with them felt different somehow, a bit 'edgier'. Some time later, when I got the shit kicked out of me one night by six skinheads, my mates kept saying, 'Look, not all skins are like that', even though I knew for a fact that one of them at least liked a good scrap.
Saw a skinhead once having an argument with this New Romantic. The NR had the full rig on with the eye make-up and that, which was pretty daring in Liverpool at that time. The Skin glasses him. Clarat everywhere. Some girl takes him off to the bogs to clean him up. He comes back out and he and the skinhead make up and are chatting amiably for about half an hour. Then the Skin glasses him again.
That was at that same club where we walked out into the gunfight. No idea why we kept going there.
My cousin took me on a pub crawl round Liverpool one night. We started out at The United Powers near what was then the Polytechnic, visited several more, and ended up at a place that seemed to have no closing time. My cousin warned me not to make eye contact with anyone, as the pub was a known trouble spot. 'It's OK though' he reassured me 'I know the landlord. He keeps a shotgun behind the bar in case things get really bad.' I was too pissed to worry by that stage, and have no memory at all of getting home, which we must have done. My cousin wanted to drive back to his house, even though he could barely stand, so my mother confiscated his car keys and shoved him on the sofa to sleep it off.
It was a shock to me to move out of Liverpool and discover that pubs had closing times.
My cousin took me on a pub crawl round Liverpool one night. We started out at The United Powers near what was then the Polytechnic, visited several more, and ended up at a place that seemed to have no closing time. My cousin warned me not to make eye contact with anyone, as the pub was a known trouble spot. 'It's OK though' he reassured me 'I know the landlord. He keeps a shotgun behind the bar in case things get really bad.' I was too pissed to worry by that stage, and have no memory at all of getting home, which we must have done. My cousin wanted to drive back to his house, even though he could barely stand, so my mother confiscated his car keys and shoved him on the sofa to sleep it off.
back when I was younger I used to live with a lass who came originally from Liverpool. We went down for a holiday and were taken round the pubs etc by her sisters man. He was a leading tough. the places were spit n sawdust in bar; more sawdust, less spit in lounge. A guy challenged me for being Scotch as he put it... the lad I was with went over and stopped it. next morning early I heard him going out.
I was told he and his mates were going to put the guy right about insulting his guests ... he was put in hospital lol
My dad used to work on the docks in Liverpool, and often worked late shifts. As he described his walk home along the Dock Road: 'A pub on every corner, and a fight outside every pub'.
I like the Carter Brandon books by Peter Tinniswood, which typify the slightly pessimistic outlook many Northerners have.
I agree. Some of that is funny shit, but the latter is what I find most amusing, as it's a uniquely British thing: the stereotypical 'dour Northerner'. We have no such thing in Italy - they're all miserable bastards, regardless of geographical location! :D
Nah, nothing could be further from the truth :)
One of my pets hates, apart from joyless grumps, are snooty, po-faced prudes. You know the type who find toilet humour 'smutty', or tut-tut if you make jokes about male of female genitalia? You get some of them on forums. They sound about 70, often when they're much younger, and have no concept whatsoever of 'laddish banter'.... ;)
Marco.
One of my pets hates, apart from joyless grumps, are snooty, po-faced prudes. You know the type who find toilet humour 'smutty', or tut-tut if you make jokes about male of female genitalia? You get some of them on forums. They sound about 70, often when they're much younger, and have no concept whatsoever of 'laddish banter'....
Marco.
I found I grew out of enjoying that sort of laddish banter at the age of ten or so, but each to his own.
I love toilet humour. Can't understand why folk think it childish. It's actually if done well very clever
I agree. Some of that is funny shit, but the latter is what I find most amusing, as it's a uniquely British thing: the stereotypical 'dour Northerner'. .
Some of them, like my uncle Frank, were the funniest men alive, though. He worked nights all his life and if you look up 'dour northerner' there is a picture of him. But he would tell true stories absolutely dry and deadpan and it was so funny your sides would be aching. Wish we had camera phones then. He would go viral in minutes.
walpurgis
14-06-2016, 18:45
I got the shit kicked out of me one night by six skinheads
I had a bunch pick on me outside a pub one night. Brave lot they were, all five of them on me. Needless to say I responded in my customary fashion and pinned the biggest one up against car and battered him whilst getting punched and booted from behind by his mates. What they didn't know was that I had about thirty mates in the public bar, who clocked what was going on, ran over and 'dealt' with them. The skinheads ended up thrashed and thrown into the duck pond which was handily about thirty feet away. Result!
Not in my experience, mate. Never known anyone, friends or family who've married and didn't love each other, so for me that's the norm (especially within Christian society, as the vows are very important to our religion). All are, or have been, in long marriages and have been faithful to their partners throughout.
Love and/or friendship/companionship, the latter which generally applies to older folks, are IMO the only PROPER reasons for getting married. Del and I will be celebrating our 25th wedding anniversary this year, and every year has been nothing but bliss. You won't last that long together, and remain HAPPY, if you don't love and respect one another.
However, as you correctly say, whatever works between two consenting adults :)
Marco.
A lot end up in love but don't stArt there. They are usually the best and most solid one in my experience. Some are just show marriages and collapse eventually. Love at first can last for ever but tend not to. All in my experience of course
I found I grew out of enjoying that sort of laddish banter at the age of ten or so, but each to his own.
Well, not me. I've always found it hilarious, as do most of my friends, whose ages range from 35-58. Thing is, all of my friends are 'young minded' for their age, and are still in their heads, big kids, including me - and I don't ever intend to change or 'grow up', as that's when you end up old and grumpy before your time! ;)
Marco [a big daft kid, forever].
A lot end up in love but don't stArt there. They are usually the best and most solid one in my experience. Some are just show marriages and collapse eventually. Love at first can last for ever but tend not to. All in my experience of course
Sure, and your experience in that respect is every bit as valid as mine, but Del and I fell in love as soon as we met - and it's stayed that way ever since, and will do until the day we die. All the marriages in my family have been the same, going WAY back.
I think when both partners are part of the same Catholic faith (as has always been the case in my family), there's a closeness that binds a marriage together more than when that mutual religious faith doesn't exist - just my experience :)
Marco.
I had a bunch pick on me outside a pub one night. Brave lot they were, all five of them on me. Needless to say I responded in my customary fashion and pinned the biggest one up against car and battered him whilst getting punched and booted from behind by his mates. What they didn't know was that I had about thirty mates in the public bar, who clocked what was going on, ran over and 'dealt' with them. The skinheads ended up thrashed and thrown into the duck pond which was handily about thirty feet away. Result!
:respect: :yesbruv:
Marco.
Sure, and your experience in that respect is every bit as valid as mine, but Del and I fell in love as soon as we met - and it's stayed that way ever since, and will do until the day we die.
I think when both partners are part of the same Catholic faith (as has always been the case in my family), there's a closeness that binds a marriage together more than when that mutual religious faith doesn't exist - just my experience :)
Marco.
Yup, same here (though we're protestants) 20 years married this year and better than ever. I wouldn't swap my girl for the whole world ten times over, she is the foundation my whole life is based on, without her nothing would mean anything.
I'm pally with an old guy down the street. His wife had a stroke about 10 years ago (on the morning of their daughter's wedding no less) and she's been paralysed from the neck down ever since. One day I was sitting in their house chatting with him when his wife was brought home by her sister. As she was wheeled into the room his whole face just lit up at the sight of her, never forgot it - that's love, it's transcendent of circumstances.
I was pretty much same. Loved til death, so cant do more. Memories are still as clear as they were when we met. (might add she picked me up, the strumpet) :eyebrows:
Sure, and your experience in that respect is every bit as valid as mine, but Del and I fell in love as soon as we met - and it's stayed that way ever since, and will do until the day we die. All the marriages in my family have been the same, going WAY back.
I think when both partners are part of the same Catholic faith (as has always been the case in my family), there's a closeness that binds a marriage together more than when that mutual religious faith doesn't exist - just my experience :)
Marco.
Oddly enough, out of the four of us (two sisters, one brother) all brought up as Catholics, only one of us married a Catholic, and that marriage lasted only three years. The rest of us married Prods of various types, and we're all still married, 35-40 years later. My sister's second husband was a Prod, and that marriage has lasted 30+ years.
I was pretty much same. Loved til death, so cant do more. Memories are still as clear as they were when we met. (might add she picked me up, the strumpet) :eyebrows:
Wow, just can't put myself in those circumstances Grant, too painful to even imagine.
Good man yerself.
Oddly enough, out of the four of us (two sisters, one brother) all brought up as Catholics, only one of us married a Catholic, and that marriage lasted only three years. The rest of us married Prods of various types, and we're all still married, 35-40 years later. My sister's second husband was a Prod, and that marriage has lasted 30+ years.
I think it's great when people remarry and find the real thing :)
I think it's great when people remarry and find the real thing :)
Indeed. Her first husband was a handsome charmer with the gift of the gab. My parents disapproved of him, which just made my sister even more keen on him. After he'd drunk/gambled his wages away, he scarpered with another woman, leaving my sister alone with a 2-year old daughter. Her second husband is a terrific bloke who'd do anything to help anyone.
Tear gas has been used against football fans in Lille amid reports of renewed clashes at the Euro 2016 tournament.
It has not been made clear which team's fans were involved. England fans have gathered in the city ahead of their match in nearby Lens against Wales.
Russian and Slovakian supporters are also in Lille, after their match at the city's Stade Pierre-Mauro
Maybe disqualify Russia and England and deport all their fans.. ban them all for 10 years might be too lenient ;)
Yes it seems like the thugs have been at it again... :rolleyes:
At the moment, it appears just to have been minor skirmishes, but I fear for what might happen before or after the big game today, especially if England were to lose.... In that respect, let's hope it's only the football match we're all talking about afterwards!
Marco.
How to support your team at the Euros. Hungarian journalist mobbed by Ireland fans:
JmFFGXSxgOU
Let's hear it for the fun-loving Irish!! :hifive: :hifive:
Marco.
skimminstones
17-06-2016, 17:47
Been fights with the germans, ukrainians, russians, english, some local french and reportedly some belgians. Now the croats are at it
But its purely an english issue really.
Who said it's purely an English issue? Get a grip and read what's written in front of you. We've been here already :rolleyes:
Marco.
I know.
Can't we just say that the fighting is really down to some genetic factor of the human species, rather than the residents of any particular nation? Based on all of recorded history. It isn't exactly an aberration, is it?
Lol - whatever keeps you happy, Martin...
What I find rather bemusing is the semi-disguised underlying resentment/umbrage being taken from a few English people here, who have nothing whatsoever to do with football hooliganism, or the type of people I dislike for that reason, simply because it's their country being criticised.
I'm sorry, but I just don't get that mentality. If it was Italian or Scottish fans guilty of such hooliganism, no-one would be criticising them more, or calling them a disgrace, than ME! So let's lose the blinkered and misplaced 'patriotism', eh, and learn not to defend the indefensible.
They're ALL scumbag hooligans: the Russians, Croatians, Belgians, or whoever is guilty of such, AND the English. Those are the facts, as unpleasant as they may be. Another fact is that the Irish and Welsh fans over in France have so far behaved impeccably - and that's no accident either! ;)
Marco.
Ali Tait
17-06-2016, 18:19
Play the video. :D
http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/231664-new-tennants-advert/
Hahahaha - that's a belter! :lol: :lol: :D
Marco.
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