Lack of bass in the sweet spot

[paulf-2007]

Been having problems with a lack of bass lately and realised today there is deep bass if I sit to the right or left in front of either speaker but not in the sweet spot, is there an easy fix like toeing in the speakers.

[YNWaN]

Probably not that, sounds like a bass cancellation mode - this is room dimension related. Try sitting further or nearer to the speakers, moving them further or nearer you or firing down the other dimension of the room (instead of across the long axis try the short axis - or the other way round).

[walpurgis]

Probably not that, sounds like a bass cancellation mode - this is room dimension related. Try sitting further or nearer to the speakers, moving them further or nearer you or firing down the other dimension of the room (instead of across the long axis try the short axis - or the other way round).

I agree.

Have you moved the speakers or your seating position recently? If so, try reverting to the previous arrangement to see if that restores the bass quality.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Check your speaker wiring, one channel to the other, that you have Red to Red Black to Black

[r100]

Been having problems with a lack of bass lately and realised today there is deep bass if I sit to the right or left in front of either speaker but not in the sweet spot, is there an easy fix like toeing in the speakers.

why don't you just try. It takes max 10 seconds to toe-in the speakers :scratch: then decide for yourself.

[paulf-2007]

I haven't moved anything and cannot as the room is only 9' X 7' . Toeing in is the only option. I recently bought the Zu omens and at that time I was still building my turntable plinth and only had cd and Spotify. Bass was excellent. With my DIY speakers I used a sub which is placed half way down the room by the right hand wall. There is definitely louder bass from Spotify compared with vinyl in the sweet spot. I will carry out some checks today, check the speaker cable connections for phase, check for differences in bass loudness sitting to one side and the sweet spot. Try toeing the speakers in and out and get back to you all.

[paulf-2007]

Check your speaker wiring, one channel to the other, that you have Red to Red Black to Black
Chris, you win the prize for finding the problem, unfortunately the prize is a pair of old socks with holes in. You were right the left monoblock was wired in reverse. I had removed the PX25 monos and was considering selling them and swapped in a 300B that didn't sound as good, so put the PX25's back in and wired one in reverse. Bass is now stonkingly good, detail is spot on too. Funny how you can get used to something even when it's not right :)

[walpurgis]

Ah. Sorted!

An easy mistake to make. Have you ever put out of phase speakers face to face? The result is interesting. All the bass disappears due to cancellation.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Chris, you win the prize for finding the problem, unfortunately the prize is a pair of old socks with holes in. You were right the left monoblock was wired in reverse. I had removed the PX25 monos and was considering selling them and swapped in a 300B that didn't sound as good, so put the PX25's back in and wired one in reverse. Bass is now stonkingly good, detail is spot on too. Funny how you can get used to something even when it's not right :)

Many thanks, Socks will be fine :scratch::D: , a few cold nights here !!
Funny I also had a lead reversed with my Quad 306 on one channel
this morning, and put it right, so was -like today aware of what reversal
can do to bass output.

Cheers / Chris

[DSJR]

Left field here and may not be helpful...

Check speaker phasing, may not be a problem and granny sucking eggs probably (apologies), but some speakers do all manner of odd things when the phase is reversed one to the other and not everyone gets a severe headache as I do when trying to listen to speakers wired this way. It wasn't unknown for Linn Isobariks to have mid drivers out of phase (unintentionally) with the bass and tweeter units, the semi-Omni nature of their sound dispersion made it very difficult to sort if there was a problem (often in active 'Brik situations).

Zu's to my knowledge, were never bass powerhouses I recall, as the very high sensitivity would indicate little bass weight or extension, as you can't have one without the other unless the speakers are huge and like the rather lovely Klipschorns or similar (laws of Physics I'm afraid) and the upper mids are 'very' well projected out in the Zu's I've heard, in a kind of 'live event' sense, which may be heard in a typical living room as 'lean bass' rather than 'exposed mids,' if you see what I mean - I have the opposite issue here where low bass, even if the speakers reproduce it fairly well, can swamp everything else and spoil the overall balance into a stomach-heaving sludge for me.

The only thing I can really echo from posts above, is to try different positioning, in and out from the wall and especially in this case, how far apart you have them. Forget for a moment the conventional 'equilateral triangle' suggestion - some speakers like being placed too far apart (and overly toed in to compensate) and the Zu's may be one of these. If this is worse, try placing them a little closer together. Your speakers are anything but conventional, so try chucking the rule-book out and experimenting. Hopefully you'll find the right spot for them, but they're not a 'universal' kind of product so will tend to have a 'marmite' quality depending on room and owner taste...

[paulf-2007]

Left field here and may not be helpful...

Check speaker phasing, may not be a problem and granny sucking eggs probably (apologies), but some speakers do all manner of odd things when the phase is reversed one to the other and not everyone gets a severe headache as I do when trying to listen to speakers wired this way. It wasn't unknown for Linn Isobariks to have mid drivers out of phase (unintentionally) with the bass and tweeter units, the semi-Omni nature of their sound dispersion made it very difficult to sort if there was a problem (often in active 'Brik situations).

Zu's to my knowledge, were never bass powerhouses I recall, as the very high sensitivity would indicate little bass weight or extension, as you can't have one without the other unless the speakers are huge and like the rather lovely Klipschorns or similar (laws of Physics I'm afraid) and the upper mids are 'very' well projected out in the Zu's I've heard, in a kind of 'live event' sense, which may be heard in a typical living room as 'lean bass' rather than 'exposed mids,' if you see what I mean - I have the opposite issue here where low bass, even if the speakers reproduce it fairly well, can swamp everything else and spoil the overall balance into a stomach-heaving sludge for me.

The only thing I can really echo from posts above, is to try different positioning, in and out from the wall and especially in this case, how far apart you have them. Forget for a moment the conventional 'equilateral triangle' suggestion - some speakers like being placed too far apart (and overly toed in to compensate) and the Zu's may be one of these. If this is worse, try placing them a little closer together. Your speakers are anything but conventional, so try chucking the rule-book out and experimenting. Hopefully you'll find the right spot for them, but they're not a 'universal' kind of product so will tend to have a 'marmite' quality depending on room and owner taste...
Thanks Dave, Chris had already posted the same.

[paulf-2007]

Many thanks, Socks will be fine :scratch::D: , a few cold nights here !!
Funny I also had a lead reversed with my Quad 306 on one channel
this morning, and put it right, so was -like today aware of what reversal
can do to bass output.

Cheers / Chris
Pm your address and I'll get the socks off to you, the socks I have in mind need holes to get your feet in.

[paulf-2007]

Left field here and may not be helpful...

Check speaker phasing, may not be a problem and granny sucking eggs probably (apologies), but some speakers do all manner of odd things when the phase is reversed one to the other and not everyone gets a severe headache as I do when trying to listen to speakers wired this way. It wasn't unknown for Linn Isobariks to have mid drivers out of phase (unintentionally) with the bass and tweeter units, the semi-Omni nature of their sound dispersion made it very difficult to sort if there was a problem (often in active 'Brik situations).

Zu's to my knowledge, were never bass powerhouses I recall, as the very high sensitivity would indicate little bass weight or extension, as you can't have one without the other unless the speakers are huge and like the rather lovely Klipschorns or similar (laws of Physics I'm afraid) and the upper mids are 'very' well projected out in the Zu's I've heard, in a kind of 'live event' sense, which may be heard in a typical living room as 'lean bass' rather than 'exposed mids,' if you see what I mean - I have the opposite issue here where low bass, even if the speakers reproduce it fairly well, can swamp everything else and spoil the overall balance into a stomach-heaving sludge for me.

The only thing I can really echo from posts above, is to try different positioning, in and out from the wall and especially in this case, how far apart you have them. Forget for a moment the conventional 'equilateral triangle' suggestion - some speakers like being placed too far apart (and overly toed in to compensate) and the Zu's may be one of these. If this is worse, try placing them a little closer together. Your speakers are anything but conventional, so try chucking the rule-book out and experimenting. Hopefully you'll find the right spot for them, but they're not a 'universal' kind of product so will tend to have a 'marmite' quality depending on room and owner taste...
r.e. Zu, I emailed Zu with the size of my room ( not a typical living room ) and details of the room treatment, they suggested omen, soul and superfly to work well with my 4w PX25 in my room. A pair of omens came up and I bought them, in such a small room they look huge. To start they sounded terrible until the former owner explained how to set them up with a 10mm gap around the bottom, the bass port is all around the base in a slot at the bottom of a pyramid. Getting the gap right is key.
Bass is deep and musical. I was about to sell the PX25's and had been using another nice amp and put the PX25's back in and even though I had the speaker wires crossed on one speaker I didn't notice right away. It was when I got my turntable set up that I noticed the lack of bass. Now that the speakers are in phase and I have the Denon DP80, Stax arm and Benz wood SL set up properly it's as good as anything I've heard.

[paulf-2007]

Ah. Sorted!

An easy mistake to make. Have you ever put out of phase speakers face to face? The result is interesting. All the bass disappears due to cancellation.
Yes Geoff I have, when trying to run a pair of new lowther EX3's in. After months I gave up and sold them