View Full Version : Aurorasound Vida vs FM Acoustic 122 Mk2
Friends,
I am upgrading my phono stage and I have located a good deal on an used FM Acoustics 122 Mk2 phonostage. I was considering a new Aurorasound Vida but this FM deal is now in the striking distance. I know the Vida is a nice and musical player but I am not very aware of the sonic presentation of the FM. I know the FM has better resolutio but if it is all about hi-fi dynamics and boombastic sounds I will rather pass it. Has anyone heard the FM ?
I haven't heard the FM Acoustic's 122 head amp, but many years ago I did hear their preamp (think it was the FM 212A) at an audio show. I thought it very good.
I did discuss the use of the FM 122 (then it would have been in the MK.I edition) for use with my EMT cartridge, and would have considered going along the FM Acoustics route, but financially it was, then, a bit out of my league.
Sorry, I haven't heard the Aurorasound Vida device, but it too gets good reviews by owners. Why not ask the seller of the FM Acoustics 122, what he is replacing it with and why he is selling? That way you might get an idea of how the FM device 'sounds'.
I know the FM has better resolution....
How do you know that if you haven't compared them? I've had the Vida at home and the resolution was very good.
rubber duck
06-06-2016, 18:22
If the FM comes close in price to the Aurorasound then it's probably a no brainer. I used to spend extended periods listening to this as part of a full FM Acoustics system with Wilson Grand SLAMM speakers (not mine). Never got the chance to isolate the sound of the 122 but the electronics as a whole are very good and FM does not release new products very often, if this is any indication of the quality of their designs. FWIW Touraj of Vertere uses FM as his personal phono stage and in demos of his turntables. He once said to me that everything else are toys in comparison.
montesquieu
08-06-2016, 00:21
The point of the Vida is that it's an LCR design, quite a breakthrough approach to phono equalisation quite different to older approaches. I love mine because it's so musical, yet gives nothing away in terms of the usual Hifi attributes like resolution of detail or soundstage. It's also very flexible in terms of inputs, loading etc. Personally never heard of the FM, what's the source in the Uk? I jus did a bit of a read up the variable EQ is surely useful though I use an Esoteric Re-equaliser for those early mono recordings that need the EQ fixed - it's reasonably cheap and stays out if the circuit for the 90%+ of recordings it's not needed for.
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Audio Advent
11-06-2016, 21:03
Remember that the FM will hold it's price whilst the new item will depreciate. That effectively means you can get the FM and sell it on again for the same price (unless is from a dealer of course where price is likely higher than a private ad). The FM might get snapped up by someone else whilst the new item will be available whenever you want it.
You can also probably do a demo with the new one whilst already owning the FM (then if you prefer the new one, sell the FM privately).
farflungstar
12-06-2016, 09:47
I have the Vida and can't imagine changing it. It's incredibly musical, transparent and honest in its presentation. I can't compare it to the FM.
As far as resale value goes, the Vida isn't that easy to get hold of and I've yet to come across a private sale for one but can't imagine it losing much in value. The fact that they dont come up for sale speaks volumes for the Vida.
Its a wonderful piece of Japanese engineering and Guy at puresound is great to deal with and is very knowledgeable when it comes to integrating the Vida into your ystem. Buying the FM won't get you that.
Just an opinion.
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Arkless Electronics
13-06-2016, 13:19
The point of the Vida is that it's an LCR design, quite a breakthrough approach to phono equalisation quite different to older approaches. I love mine because it's so musical, yet gives nothing away in terms of the usual Hifi attributes like resolution of detail or soundstage. It's also very flexible in terms of inputs, loading etc. Personally never heard of the FM, what's the source in the Uk? I jus did a bit of a read up the variable EQ is surely useful though I use an Esoteric Re-equaliser for those early mono recordings that need the EQ fixed - it's reasonably cheap and stays out if the circuit for the 90%+ of recordings it's not needed for.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There is no real benefit to LCR EQ... it's just a different way of doing the same thing but it's much harder to build inductors to the same precision as readily available capacitors and they require more screening from interference. All in all, IMO the standard method is better ;)
It's a pity the OP is in Singapore as he could have tried the Arkless Hybrid phono stage, which I am confident will beat the Aurorasound... and for less money!
montesquieu
13-06-2016, 13:33
There is no real benefit to LCR EQ... it's just a different way of doing the same thing but it's much harder to build inductors to the same precision as readily available capacitors and they require more screening from interference. All in all, IMO the standard method is better ;)
It's a pity the OP is in Singapore as he could have tried the Arkless Hybrid phono stage, which I am confident will beat the Aurorasound... and for less money!
Not for the first time Jez you are talking rubbish. The advantages of LCR over conventional approaches are well documented and the best phono stages I have heard in recent time have exclusively been LCR designs (after a LOT of listening). These include Nick Gorham's fabulous design for Music First Audio, and some very nice components from Alnic, as well as the Vida of course.
Anyway, should you really be puffing your wares in this way? I don't think that's what this part of the forum is for.
Arkless Electronics
13-06-2016, 13:49
Not for the first time Jez you are talking rubbish. The advantages of LCR over conventional approaches are well documented and the best phono stages I have heard in recent time have exclusively been LCR designs (after a LOT of listening). These include Nick Gorham's fabulous design for Music First Audio, and some very nice components from Alnic, as well as the Vida of course.
Anyway, should you really be puffing your wares in this way? I don't think that's what this part of the forum is for.
It's you who is talking rubbish! 90% of what one reads about hi fi IS rubbish and I proudly seekto avoid adding to that percentage by knowing what I'm talking about. Unlike the majority who will pontificate on matters electronic without knowing a diode from a resistor.... I must presume you have read scholarly articles on the subject from Lipshitz, Vanderkooy, Linsley-Hood, Baxandall etc as you feel confident in proclaiming my opinion "rubbish"?
As a trade member I can promote my wares where ever I like and there are members on here who have tried both the Auroasound and my hybrid design and preferred mine by quite a margin. :ner:
It's you who is talking rubbish! 90% of what one reads about hi fi IS rubbish and I proudly seekto avoid adding to that percentage by knowing what I'm talking about. Unlike the majority who will pontificate on matters electronic without knowing a diode from a resistor.... I must presume you have read scholarly articles on the subject from Lipshitz, Vanderkooy, Linsley-Hood, Baxandall etc as you feel confident in proclaiming my opinion "rubbish"?
As a trade member I can promote my wares where ever I like and there are members on here who have tried both the Auroasound and my hybrid design and preferred mine by quite a margin. :ner:
Jez your 'shop window' is in your trade area. Replying to technical queries posted elsewhere in the forum solely in order to promote your wares, is generally regarded as 'shilling', and is frowned upon.
It's quite possible that your head amp is superior in SQ than either the FM Acoustics design or the Vida, but that is not what the OP asked.
Yes, Barry is right.
Trade members are permitted to promote their products out with of their designated sub-forums in the trade room, *if* it's appropriate to do so, such in threads like this where products are being discussed, which a trade member designs or sells, *but* not to the extent that said trade member rudely dismisses/bad mouths the competing product from a rival manufacturer...
Therefore, Jez, you need to wind your neck in a bit mate, as that was out of order, and you're not doing yourself any favours. You know that your stuff is highly rated here by members, but please don't be so pushy and learn to accept that other manufacturers are capable of offering valid choices of products for people.
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
13-06-2016, 15:17
Oh... ok if that's how it is.... I thought it relevant as the op is unlikely to know of the existence of my design unless he had read about it on this very forum. I do not promote my services actively anywhere else..... It is a rival to the Aurorasound, and undercuts it, and so the info could be useful to those considering such a phono stage (not head amp BTW). If I don't "schill" my wares chances are no one will hear about them and therefore not only do I lose a potential sale but people don't get to know of the very existence of a product which may be exactly what they are after.
There are plenty on here who will make a point of not suggesting my products, purely out of spite, and stemming I guess from previous disagreements over foo etc.... E.G? Well the Arkless 640P has nothing but rave reviews for the product itself (yes there was a delivery time issue, now in the past), is on the AOS list of VFM products etc, and yet how often will you see anyone mention it as an option when someone asks about VFM phono stages? Whereas at one time it would be the most suggested phono stage at the price! I rest my case.....
I don't do sycophancy, bull shit, "going with the flow", "6 moons-isms", jumping on band wagons 'cos it's the trend/fad of the moment. I call a spade a spade and have never been shy to be the one shouting "look, the Emperors got no clothes".
That's me folks and I'd rather be honest, if a little abrasive, than a honey tongued bull shiter, which certainly is not me! I live in hope that there are enough people out there who appreciate the former over the latter:)
BTW I don't think the word "schill" is apt! Is a schill not someone pretending to be an unbiased 3rd party but actually there to promote goods? People know who I am and that there is no hidden agenda. It says "Arkless Electronics" and "Trade" at the top! If I joined AOS again as "Geordiepete" or whatever and started telling everyone how wonderful Arkless Electronics products are, then I would be a schill surely ;)
Arkless Electronics
13-06-2016, 15:21
Yes, Barry is right.
Trade members are permitted to promote their products out with of their designated sub-forums in the trade room, *if* it's appropriate to do so, such in threads like this where products are being discussed, which a trade member designs or sells, *but* not to the extent that said trade member rudely dismisses/bad mouths the competing product from a rival manufacturer...
Therefore, Jez, you need to wind your neck in a bit mate, as that was out of order, and you're not doing yourself any favours. You know that your stuff is highly rated here by members, but please don't be so pushy and learn to accept that other manufacturers are capable of offering valid choices of products for people.
Marco.
Thought I should mention that I wrote part of that last post before going off to do something else... and then finishing it and posting it so I had not seen your post Marco when I pressed "post" :)
montesquieu
13-06-2016, 15:29
Oh... ok if that's how it is.... I thought it relevant as the op is unlikely to know of the existence of my design unless he had read about it on this very forum. I do not promote my services actively anywhere else..... It is a rival to the Aurorasound, and undercuts it, and so the info could be useful to those considering such a phono stage (not head amp BTW). If I don't "schill" my wares chances are no one will hear about them and therefore not only do I lose a potential sale but people don't get to know of the very existence of a product which may be exactly what they are after.
Bit of self-delusion going on there Jez. Your stuff may be good VFM at the budget end but are you really in competition with high-end LCR designs from Alnic, Aurorasound, Thomas Meyer? Of course not. You are making a fool of yourself.
Arkless Electronics
13-06-2016, 15:31
Yes, Barry is right.
Trade members are permitted to promote their products out with of their designated sub-forums in the trade room, *if* it's appropriate to do so, such in threads like this where products are being discussed, which a trade member designs or sells, *but* not to the extent that said trade member rudely dismisses/bad mouths the competing product from a rival manufacturer...
Therefore, Jez, you need to wind your neck in a bit mate, as that was out of order, and you're not doing yourself any favours. You know that your stuff is highly rated here by members, but please don't be so pushy and learn to accept that other manufacturers are capable of offering valid choices of products for people.
Marco.
I can't quite see that I bad mouthed the Aurorasound product Marco.... I didn't say there was anything wrong with LCR EQ, just that there is no reason to presume it superior to other techniques and that, in spite of this, it is more expensive and difficult to get right. Two members on here have tried mine and the Vida and did say that although the Aurorasound amp is good, they preferred mine by quite a margin. Is mentioning this bad mouthing these days?:scratch:
montesquieu
13-06-2016, 15:33
I can't quite see that I bad mouthed the Aurorasound product Marco.... I didn't say there was anything wrong with LCR EQ, just that there is no reason to presume it superior to other techniques and that, in spite of this, it is more expensive and difficult to get right. Two members on here have tried mine and the Vida and did say that although the Aurorasound amp is good, they preferred mine by quite a margin. Is mentioning this bad mouthing these days?:scratch:
Keep digging there Jez. Meanwhile your two members are remarkably silent.
Arkless Electronics
13-06-2016, 15:38
Bit of self-delusion going on there Jez. Your stuff may be good VFM at the budget end but are you really in competition with high-end LCR designs from Alnic, Aurorasound, Thomas Meyer? Of course not. You are making a fool of yourself.
That I do take issue with! I can assure that my high end products are very good indeed and there are plenty who have heard them and can confirm this.
You seem to be under some bizarre delusion (as are several) that only ageing ex samurai using inferior old stock parts and designs from 1920's public address amps actually know what they are doing.... and that only designs favourably reviewed by yank luvvies who slip reference to Farrari and Rolex into their spiel are worth buying. Sad.
Ok ..... Cut out the insults please. Play fair or i will delete stuff...which may still happen
I can't quite see that I bad mouthed the Aurorasound product Marco.... I didn't say there was anything wrong with LCR EQ, just that there is no reason to presume it superior to other techniques and that, in spite of this, it is more expensive and difficult to get right. Two members on here have tried mine and the Vida and did say that although the Aurorasound amp is good, they preferred mine by quite a margin. Is mentioning this bad mouthing these days?:scratch:
Not so much bad-mouthing, Jez, but disparaging the design of rival products. It's not clever mate, and likely to backfire on you, as people will ably recognise your biased opinion and that will dilute the validity of your products being worth recommending.
The best recommendations are always those that come naturally from owners of the equipment concerned, not those who make it! ;)
Chillax, dude, and let your customers speak on your behalf, without being so pushy, and trust me, those recommendations will carry much more weight than any you could make yourself.
Marco.
Just read what's been going on since I was typing that last post. Grant's right, both of you pack it in. Any more of that crap and it will simply be removed.
Marco.
I do have sympathy for Arkless. It's very difficult for small manufacturers to get a look in given the marketing dominance of the big players. This can extend to small dealers too!
Getting a profile on a forum without appearing as pushy requires a high degree of verbal dexterity.:)
pure sound
14-06-2016, 07:19
Just to point out that Aurorasound is also a very small company operated by one man (with a bit of help from his wife!)
No samurai heritage or 1920's parts though!l
sq225917
14-06-2016, 10:52
Just, to level the playing field here, though I'm not sure it's actually the thread for it as the Op didn't mention Jez's stage.
I've heard the Vida, Jez's hybrid stage, Tom Evan's Mastergroove and an earlier version of Nick's stage at close quarters, either my own or Ynwoans set-up. I think it's a little unfair to characterise Jez's stuff as punching at a lower level. It's as good a valve stage as I've heard and people would be falling over themselves to pay several grand for it if it came in a pretentious box and from a known brand. It's far from being budget sounding in any respect.
But back to why I came to post.
To state that one method of performing RIAA is better than another is to completely miss the point, several methods are capable of 'near perfection' it's all down to the quality of implementation. Each of them is a matter of choosing a trade off, just different ones.
Audio Advent
14-06-2016, 11:32
As far as resale value goes, the Vida isn't that easy to get hold of and I've yet to come across a private sale for one but can't imagine it losing much in value. The fact that they dont come up for sale speaks volumes for the Vida.
I would have thought that what it says about the Vida is that it's a new product that cost a fair amount and so people aren't just going to buy it on a whim and dump it on the secondhand market immediately after and that it is sold in very small volumes because it's a product for a very niche market (the high end hifi market and only the vinyl end of that) that is already overcrowded with manufacturers.
If you can buy it new then it's not going anywhere whereas the opportunity to try the FM is a fleeting one.
I'm only saying this because I'm a big fan of older gear. It's not always the case that a new design is better than an old one but what does happen is that people don't get the opportunity to hear these older products and therefore no comparison is ever made.
Audio Advent
14-06-2016, 11:42
Bit of self-delusion going on there Jez. Your stuff may be good VFM at the budget end but are you really in competition with high-end LCR designs from Alnic, Aurorasound, Thomas Meyer? Of course not. You are making a fool of yourself.
Not nice to call people delusional..
Audio Advent
14-06-2016, 11:46
Keep digging there Jez. Meanwhile your two members are remarkably silent.
So.... if I graffitied something on a wall that was rude about you and you were unaware of it, could I then claim that your silence on the matter therefore meant it was true?
I would be suspicious if suddenly all these customers were prompted to appear to make a comment - as does happen on these threads from time to time.
This seems to be getting a bit daftly personal now IMO.
Audio Advent
14-06-2016, 11:48
Just read what's been going on since I was typing that last post. Grant's right, both of you pack it in. Any more of that crap and it will simply be removed.
Marco.
Oh, it has already been addressed...
Arkless Electronics
14-06-2016, 12:47
I do have sympathy for Arkless. It's very difficult for small manufacturers to get a look in given the marketing dominance of the big players. This can extend to small dealers too!
Getting a profile on a forum without appearing as pushy requires a high degree of verbal dexterity.:)
Indeed. And I don't have that verbal dexterity...
It does seem that the dice are well and truly loaded against the likes of myself... There seems to be a commercial "game" one is expected to play in which all the participants make money and woe betide you if you try to circumvent any of it!
How? One is somehow "expected" to feed "the publicity machine" with wonga in order to get ones product known... advertising, paid for "advertorials", back handers to reviewers, getting a dealer network maybe who will then push your products (again for a large fee!), expensive trade stands at hi fi shows etc. I don't have ANY money at all with which to advertise and get my products known, hence my being on this here site so often as at least A way of getting known!! However, unless one was to trawl the back streets of the site specifically looking for details of my products, you'll probably never have heard of me or my products.
Generally speaking, if someone comes on here asking "what good phono stage can I buy for around £X, I've heard of and read good reviews on the Acme XYZ and the Bloggs MkII and I'm considering these..." Now unless I POP UP AND TELL THEM I HAVE A SUITABLE PRODUCT THEY MAY LIKE TO CONSIDER, chances are they will never know of my existence and so I'm 100% guaranteed not to make a sale... but as soon as I do I get accused of "schilling", ungentlemanly conduct, thread hijacking, "you would say that wouldn't you" etc etc. I'm between a rock and a hard place!
It seems there is an unwritten rule that the only acceptable means of getting publicity is to PAY others to get your name out there and woe betide you if you try to short circuit the gravy train by getting free publicity....
FM Acoustic's gear is quite rare and S/H items do not appear on the market that often. Were it me, I would leap at the chance to try the FM 122: if I didn't like it vis a vis the Aurora Vida, then it could be readily sold on without difficulty.
Oh, it has already been addressed...
So why feel the need to comment - has unbeknown to me someone appointed you to the position of moderator? ;)
Stick to discussing hi-fi please, not personalities!
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
14-06-2016, 14:09
I notice the lack of comment on my last post....
Sorry, I missed it. Let's have a look...
Marco.
It seems there is an unwritten rule that the only acceptable means of getting publicity is to PAY others to get your name out there and woe betide you if you try to short circuit the gravy train by getting free publicity....
I'll get to the rest later, as I need to pop out for a bit, but given what I've done for you, and that I've gone out of my way to help you financially [do consider that for a moment, bearing in mind how much you, erm, 'pay' to advertise and trade here ;)] and in other ways, I'm shocked that you have the affront to come out with that statement!
Laters...
Marco.
I've heard the Vida, Jez's hybrid stage, Tom Evan's Mastergroove and an earlier version of Nick's stage at close quarters, either my own or YNWaNs set-up. I think it's a little unfair to characterise Jez's stuff as punching at a lower level. It's as good a valve stage as I've heard and people would be falling over themselves to pay several grand for it if it came in a pretentious box and from a known brand. It's far from being budget sounding in any respect.
Yes, I would agree with that. I've had the Vida in my own system and also Jez's hybrid stage and both were genuinely excellent. Jez's stage was hugely superior to the modification of the Cambridge he does and that is already very good; he's certainly not just a designer of budget equipment.
When I had the FM 122 mk1 in my residence for a while a few years ago, I always admired its workmanship and sound quality. However the gain was inadequate for very low output MC cartridges even after a high gain module was fitted by the manufacturer in Switzerland.
Here are some pictures:
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/KCCTKC/MCphonoprepreamp090.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/KCCTKC/MCphonoprepreamp084.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/KCCTKC/FMAcoustic122.jpg
Arkless Electronics
14-06-2016, 17:30
I'll get to the rest later, as I need to pop out for a bit, but given what I've done for you, and that I've gone out of my way to help you financially [do consider that for a moment, bearing in mind how much you, erm, 'pay' to advertise and trade here ;)] and in other ways, I'm shocked that you have the affront to come out with that statement!
Laters...
Marco.
It was absolutely not aimed at you Marco! It hadn't even crossed my mind TBH and hence I'm rather taken aback by that....:scratch: I do appreciate your help! I guess that with hindsight I can see how it may have come across that way....
I'm talking about the whole industry gravy train and reflecting on the "catch 22" that a well known brand gets to be well known through having an advertising and marketing budget, and therefore people will have heard of the "Acme xyz" because they've read about it in mags, seen it in dealers. They therefore ask about the Acme when considering a phono stage because it's in their mind and has had good reviews.... I have no marketing or advertising budget and so the only way anyone will get to know that I make a rival for the Acme, which they may care to consider, will generally be if I tell them.
Unless I'm being unduly paranoid, it seems my forthrightness(?) has made me plenty of, well enemies would hopefully be too strong a word... but people who certainly won't mention my products to potential purchasers out of probable schadenfreude ("I'm aware of the rave reviews of Arkless gear but you 'dissed my mains cables and I don't like your politics so I'll recommend anyone but you jez"... kind of thing!?? Not that I'm about to change, wysiwyg. Leopard. spots etc).
So if I have no money for advertising/marketing.... (I started this business with nowt... and I've still got it all!)
But I'm also not allowed to tell anyone about my products unless they specifically ask about them...
Which they won't 'cos they've never heard of me.
Catch 22.
There are many other forums I've looked at with a view to getting better known but the majority have a "no traders" policy... you can of course pay vast amounts for a banner ad or some such... but no way are you allowed to push your services at all on the forum in many cases... So I joined several which said nothing in the AUP about this and so it seemed ok... but at my first post saying who I am and what I can offer I've been banned for advertising... (hi fi forums and ones for guitarists, bassists, studio users etc)
I started out on the premise of:
"well I'm a damn good electronic engineer, specialising in audio, I've been an industry designer, I have the knowledge and equipment to make world beating designs, I'll pack in my well paid job as an R & D engineer (which I hate for office politics reasons) and set up on my own. I won't make a fortune and I don't want to... £20K a year will do me so if I can sell a couple of budget amps (whatever) a week and/or one high end amp a month I should do ok and have a stress free life... people will beat a path to my door to have amps hand built in England by the designer, who they can speak to personally over any queries etc.... what could possibly go wrong..."
Little did I realise at the time that as far as the products are concerned, well they don't have to be the world beating ones I want to design and build, (the advice of a businessman would be "Of merchantable quality" and on a par with others at the same price will do fine.. make em cheap, anything better than that is eating into your profits). EVERYTHING else revolves solely around marketing, advertising, brand name, perceived second hand value (another catch 22 for an unknown trader), "goodwill" and "greasing the right cogs", payola, salesmanship etc Non of which I'm any good at and non of which I can afford to pay others to do.. and I've certainly got no budget for payola!
The old adage of a good engineer doesn't often make a good business man... even if the business is engineering.
Please forgive the rant, "tilting at windmills" and the general display of business naivety :) It's just so frustrating that there seems to be so many catch 22's, most of which can only be got out of by having money in the first place... another catch 22 :doh:
I can't afford to advertise. so I don't get the publicity. so I don't get many sales. so I don't make any money so I can pay for advertising....
On here if someone asks about lets say a phono stage, I'm the only one who wants to tell them about mine.... but also the only one who's not allowed to.... Of course they don't specifically ask about mine because "I can't afford to advertise. so I don't get the publicity."
I dare not put an amp in for hi fi magazine review as I really can't see a product from a company with no advertising budget getting recommended above a rival who pays for full page colour ads every month... and I can't even afford to travel to London to buy the journos drinks etc... nor would it be my style:eek: I do believe that a "worth considering " kind of conclusion would be the "damning with feint praise" that could kill a product on first review. If anyone thinks the above doesn't happen well I was in fact asked for a bribe when I looked into an on-line review of the Arkless 640P, which I obviously refused and so no review. No names no pack drill.
And there was little old me thinking that if I make REALLY good sounding, well engineered amps everything else would just fall into place:doh::eek::stalks: Don't give up the day job folks! Anyway I stick at it... cos it's what I do:)
It was absolutely not aimed at you Marco! It hadn't even crossed my mind TBH and hence I'm rather taken aback by that....:scratch:
Well, you prompted me to read your (what was then) last post, which I duly did (presuming your post #32 was aimed at me?) and what I quoted seemed to be the theme! ;)
Anyway, I'm busy just now and don't have time at the moment to read your (lengthy) last post (#37).
Marco.
Note to everyone, including those sending me PMs:
I'll get to some of the bollocks and fallouts that have been happening on this thread, whilst I've been relaxing with a few beers watching the football, when *I* get a chance, as I won't have my evening spoiled with this pish. That might not happen until tomorrow morning.
Also, I'm not always aware of moderating decisions that have taken place in my absence, or what's written on every thread here, 24/7. Contrary to what some of you might think, my life doesn't revolve around AoS! :rolleyes:
Marco.
When I had the FM 122 mk1 in my residence for a while a few years ago, I always admired its workmanship and sound quality. However the gain was inadequate for very low output MC cartridges even after a high gain module was fitted by the manufacturer in Switzerland.
Here are some pictures:
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/KCCTKC/MCphonoprepreamp090.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/KCCTKC/MCphonoprepreamp084.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/KCCTKC/FMAcoustic122.jpg
The FM Acoustics head amp I auditioned was this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66369472/FM%20212%20MC%20preamp.pdf
I realise this is the FM 212 and not the FM 122 being discussed. Apologies (:o), but even so I would still pursue the 122 in the first instance rather than the Aurora Vida.
sq225917
15-06-2016, 22:17
There's lots of great phono stages out there, truly there's never been a better time to be into vinyl in terms of equipment quality- sadly the same can't really be said for new music which I feel somewhat lacking against years gone by. Sure there's great new music out there, there jus feels like less of it than these days. I wonder if that's just down to being 'now', and we'll come to find a lot of the stuff that's current but has passed us by is truly excellent in retrospect.
Who knows.
More power to the builders and makers.
walpurgis
15-06-2016, 22:58
Fortunately, there is much great older music on vinyl and also good reissued older vinyl recordings are available, so there is a decent choice of music out there.
montesquieu
15-06-2016, 23:01
There's lots of great phono stages out there, truly there's never been a better time to be into vinyl in terms of equipment quality- sadly the same can't really be said for new music which I feel somewhat lacking against years gone by. Sure there's great new music out there, there jus feels like less of it than these days. I wonder if that's just down to being 'now', and we'll come to find a lot of the stuff that's current but has passed us by is truly excellent in retrospect.
Who knows.
More power to the builders and makers.
Au contraire, in the classical world we are in a golden age of beautifully-performed, well recorded work, a lot of it based on fantastic scholarship that has provided us with accurate information on how renaissance and baroque (and inceasingly also classical) works were performed in their time. John Butt's work for Linn, for example, is outstanding. Today's countertenors make early music pioneers like Alfred Deller sound frankly a bit amateurish, and there's a whole generation of Lieder singers who are raising the art to another peak, combining the musical insight of Schwarzkopf and Dieskau with voices that are just expressive but are probably easier to listen to. Sadly not much of this on vinyl. I'll give you that for classical and romantic music - the big symphonic stuff, or the chamber music of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and Brahms, the stuff from the 60s can be hard to beat - thankfully the vinyl legacy is abundant
As in every age there's a lot of flash over substance - it seems that the most reliable assets for getting a recording contract as a piano or string soloist these days are long legs and abundant cleavage - but the overall standard of musicianship and scholarship have never been higher.
However I can see (from an ever increasing distance) how the non-classical musical world is struggling a bit - what were one fluid, co-operative musical genres like rock and blues have mutated into hardened silos performing to ever more tribal fans, and geriatric bands fill stadia with bad karaoke performances of their 40 and 50 year old hits (never mind the Stones, the whole 'heritage punk' thing is frankly embarrassing for anyone who was a teenager in the mid 70s).
Jazz seems to me to be largely exhausted, the live jazz scene also approaching a heritage industry, Coltraine solos dissected and reproduced as perfectly as tribute bands do for those created by Page and Clapton ... but there is still decent music out there I'm sure if you look for it, on the fringes mainly, of folk and world music, electronica, fusion of different kinds.
I feel sorry for the kids though they are fed a diet of unmitigated shit (but twas ever thus I suspect, I only hear this rubbish when I'm having a haircut and it wasn't any better 30 years ago).
walpurgis
15-06-2016, 23:14
I feel sorry for the kids though they are fed a diet of unmitigated shit (but twas ever thus I suspect)
You are correct Tom. There has always been some dire crap about, since recorded music was offered to the public I guess. 'Freddie and The Dreamers' anybody?
Au contraire, in the classical world we are in a golden age of beautifully-performed, well recorded work, a lot of it based on fantastic scholarship that has provided us with accurate information on how renaissance and baroque (and inceasingly also classical) works were performed in their time. John Butt's work for Linn, for example, is outstanding. Today's countertenors make early music pioneers like Alfred Deller sound frankly a bit amateurish, and there's a whole generation of Lieder singers who are raising the art to another peak, combining the musical insight of Schwarzkopf and Dieskau with voices that are just expressive but are probably easier to listen to. Sadly not much of this on vinyl. I'll give you that for classical and romantic music - the big symphonic stuff, or the chamber music of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and Brahms, the stuff from the 60s can be hard to beat - thankfully the vinyl legacy is abundant
As in every age there's a lot of flash over substance - it seems that the most reliable assets for getting a recording contract as a piano or string soloist these days are long legs and abundant cleavage - but the overall standard of musicianship and scholarship have never been higher.
However I can see (from an ever increasing distance) how the non-classical musical world is struggling a bit - what were one fluid, co-operative musical genres like rock and blues have mutated into hardened silos performing to ever more tribal fans, and geriatric bands fill stadia with bad karaoke performances of their 40 and 50 year old hits (never mind the Stones, the whole 'heritage punk' thing is frankly embarrassing for anyone who was a teenager in the mid 70s).
Jazz seems to me to be largely exhausted, the live jazz scene also approaching a heritage industry, Coltraine solos dissected and reproduced as perfectly as tribute bands do for those created by Page and Clapton ... but there is still decent music out there I'm sure if you look for it, on the fringes mainly, of folk and world music, electronica, fusion of different kinds.
I feel sorry for the kids though they are fed a diet of unmitigated shit (but twas ever thus I suspect, I only hear this rubbish when I'm having a haircut and it wasn't any better 30 years ago).
Top post Tom, spot on.
Simon's point is very valid, as far as modern music goes. The same things motivate the music industry today as did in the 60's, 70's and 80's yet the music today is pretty much here today gone tomorrow manufactured pap with the odd shining light. You have to dig deep to find the gems though by comparison with the pop and rock heydays where some real talent lay in possibly fewer but very talented production, lyricist and music composers's sides . Also agree with Simon that there's never ever been so much choice in really decent kit and the irony is that whilst music's gone in one direction (no pun intended ad I don't even listen to one direction, although I'm sure they're very good!), the kit has gone in another.
There are a myriad of really good phonostages out there these days, in fact you have to look quite hard to find a really poor one, plus vinyl diversity is at a place, arguably, where it's not been for decades and long may that continue. Great phono-stages are harder to find but a few that have stood out for me include Toms current one, the Tube Technology MM/MC stage, PS audio's MM stage (less so their MC circuit), TRONs Convergence phonostage and I believe that the Paradise stage that Simon's built for a few folk is also excellent. Vive Le difference and thank goodness for so much talent within the designer/builder's side at present.
pure sound
16-06-2016, 09:23
Not sure I'd go along with this 'there's little good new music' line. My two sons in their early 20's certainly wouldn't. They seem to find plenty that they like. I even like some of it! What you don't want to be doing is judging today's new music by the stuff you hear on the radio while in the hairdressers. That isn't where it'll be found.
Arkless Electronics
16-06-2016, 13:31
There's lots of great phono stages out there, truly there's never been a better time to be into vinyl in terms of equipment quality- sadly the same can't really be said for new music which I feel somewhat lacking against years gone by. Sure there's great new music out there, there jus feels like less of it than these days. I wonder if that's just down to being 'now', and we'll come to find a lot of the stuff that's current but has passed us by is truly excellent in retrospect.
Who knows.
More power to the builders and makers.
Indeed. I started a thread about a week ago on the very subject of just HOW crap much chart pop has become over the last decade or two!
montesquieu
16-06-2016, 20:16
Not sure I'd go along with this 'there's little good new music' line. My two sons in their early 20's certainly wouldn't. They seem to find plenty that they like. I even like some of it! What you don't want to be doing is judging today's new music by the stuff you hear on the radio while in the hairdressers. That isn't where it'll be found.
Never said that at all, if you read it. 'But there is still decent music out there I'm sure if you look for it, on the fringes mainly, of folk and world music, electronica, fusion of different kinds. ' It's the 'mainstream' stuff I said that's utter shit.
Sometimes I gently tease my 19 year old daughters and her 'Korean bouzuki music' as I call it but she too has taken the trouble to find some thoughtful stuff (even if I doubt that she pays anything for it) ... the same can't be said for a lot of the rubbish out there - sadly she is in something of a minority.
Audio Advent
17-06-2016, 02:33
So why feel the need to comment - has unbeknown to me someone appointed you to the position of moderator? ;)
Stick to discussing hi-fi please, not personalities!
Marco.
That's rather a short tone from no-where...
It's a discussion going on here. I joined in and was pointing out some flawed accusation being made whilst also letting people know that what they were saying was coming across as a bit personal and unnecessary. What do you mean by discussing "personalities"?
I respond to posts as I read them and yours was on the next page. But still, what is wrong with me saying what I did? I think it is great that people should look after each other and try to prevent things getting personal. Or is it better to think twice before calming things down in case we might be treading on a moderators toes? :scratch:
Audio Advent
17-06-2016, 03:00
Never said that at all, if you read it. 'But there is still decent music out there I'm sure if you look for it, on the fringes mainly, of folk and world music, electronica, fusion of different kinds. ' It's the 'mainstream' stuff I said that's utter shit.
Sometimes I gently tease my 19 year old daughters and her 'Korean bouzuki music' as I call it but she too has taken the trouble to find some thoughtful stuff (even if I doubt that she pays anything for it) ... the same can't be said for a lot of the rubbish out there - sadly she is in something of a minority.
That is because the world doesn't work like that any more, it's the internet age. Back in the day, bands had to become semi-mainstream just for their records to reach your local record shop, they had to have a record deal and someone promoting them. As per Arkless' conundrum, publicity drives popularity, drives publicity, drives popularity... It's then no mean feat for a diverse range of tastes to break into the mainstream - they're half way there already by virtue of being heard of.
Today you can find a band on the internet and you can tell all your friends about it and yet the band will never need to be promoted any further than the internet connection in their bedroom. They can enjoy a small world-wide fan base without any other part of society ever needing to hear of them, no radio air play, nothing.
Today's mainstream is effectively music pushed by publicity machines and just there for those who want a bit of background music to sing along to at the office. People really interested in music have never had it so good in my opinion because there is so much more out there with easy access.
That's all very true Sam, but in context of what is "mainstream", and given air time, most of it seems like utter pap to me. Most of my serious listening when not listening to classical or World Music, is of groups or individuals few have probably heard about and I only got to hear those from word of mouth recommendation or from internet finds, so your point is valid, as is Guys in that context. One could be forgiven for thinking that mainstream only exists to line the pockets of large producers such as the sCowels of the world, and they tend to drop whoever they're championing like a hot rock once the money gravy train slows down.
Whilst there is indeed an abundance of good music available and some cracking classical recordings these days, mainstream radio-promoted stuff seems to be either resurrected artists coming out for a pre-retirement fund top-up or manufactured pap that all sounds the same...background music indeed all bar a few exceptions who off their own bats earn enough publicity to earn mainstream coverage (eg Amber Rubarth for example who's music I've heard on radio and on a tv ad).
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