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Wakefield Turntables
27-05-2016, 18:00
Stay tooned folks should be Tuesday next week.

Virtual-Symmetry
27-05-2016, 18:02
:lolsign: Andy you think you'll ever settle with a vinyl grinder?

Wakefield Turntables
27-05-2016, 18:19
Well I've had the 301 & the 1210 for many years now. I've played around with a few decks including LP12, Rega's, Alphason solo, Thorens TD160, several 1210's. I've never had a Lenco before. The Thorens was nice but was never really meant to stay.

CornishPasty
28-05-2016, 15:58
Not having had one before is the best reason I can think of to try one :)

Wakefield Turntables
28-05-2016, 16:13
I may buy another. I'd like to see what can be done with simple plinth etc but the PTP 6 project looks interesting altough there's not much left of the original gl75 when you've finished surgery. :eek:

Wakefield Turntables
01-06-2016, 13:21
It's arrived complete with its dynatron tuner/amplifier. Dosen't look to be in bad nick and the TT spins. The tonearm appears in decent condition and has all the gubbins.

Wakefield Turntables
01-06-2016, 18:30
So this is what the new project looks like.


17092

A close up.

17093

I dumped the dyantron amp, it didn't work. Four mounting nuts later and the Lenco is free.

17094

This is the heavy platter version. The deck is a reasonable early example in the 6500's.

17095

A quick check reveals I have the sort after 5 holed idler wheel.

17096

The deck power up and platter change speed accordingly when via the speed selector. I've not checked the tonearm but it has all the gubbins. I even managed to bag a Shure M75e MM cart (untested) :lol:. Now to source a plinth. This will form the basis of a Signature Lenco turntable project. I need to first go through a lot of reading to make sure I get the best out of this deck.

walpurgis
01-06-2016, 18:35
I have a spare standard plinth or two Andy. No lids though.

Virtual-Symmetry
01-06-2016, 19:36
I still have one of these Andy. but its built into a unit with Goodmans '80' amp. Collectively called a 'CM80'. I cant part with it cos its such a loverly looking thing..

Wakefield Turntables
01-06-2016, 19:57
Geoff,

I'm thinking of maybe getting 2 '75s one a standard one and then really pimping one out. I'm after a birchply plinth.

Virtual-Symmetry
01-06-2016, 20:33
Geoff,

I'm thinking of maybe getting 2 '75s one a standard one and then really pimping one out. I'm after a birchply plinth.

'GL' DJ's are not unheard of :D

Wakefield Turntables
03-06-2016, 18:09
The Lenco looking slightly less like it did a few days ago. You simply have no idea how complex these old idlers can be. A vast amount of components go into making the tonearm, I've bagged all these up away for storage. The bearing will get a full strip, clean, oil tomorrow.

17129


The chasis. This will be stripped back to bare metal and then I'll decide if I'm power coating and respraying.

17130

I need to get a plinth organised.

walpurgis
03-06-2016, 18:15
I don't know if you are blanking off any openings in the top plate Andy, but if you do and use epoxy you are unlikely to be able to use powder coating due to the heat.

Wakefield Turntables
03-06-2016, 19:09
I don't know if you are blanking off any openings in the top plate Andy, but if you do and use epoxy you are unlikely to be able to use powder coating due to the heat.

Thanks for the advice. I used epoxy on the 1210, what a ball ache! I'm just taking my time with this one and enjoying the process. Tomorrow will be paint stripper city for the chasis.

walpurgis
03-06-2016, 19:27
Specialist car sprayers will often take on smaller projects. Two pack automotive paints are hard wearing and the choice of finishes limitless. They may (or may not) require a light 'baking', but the temperatures are not high enough to affect epoxy fillers.

Virtual-Symmetry
03-06-2016, 19:28
Another destroyed 'GL75'

:steam:

Wakefield Turntables
03-06-2016, 20:00
Another destroyed 'GL75'

:steam:

It's not destroyed its getting a very very deep restoration.

Virtual-Symmetry
04-06-2016, 03:32
its destroyed you stripped off the aluminium strip across the front for starters.

Wakefield Turntables
04-06-2016, 07:52
its destroyed you stripped off the aluminium strip across the front for starters.

Yes and I can put it on if I so choose.

Virtual-Symmetry
04-06-2016, 17:50
I know full well you cannot because they will not come off without creasing them ;)

walpurgis
04-06-2016, 18:26
I know full well you cannot because they will not come off without creasing them ;)

Got my last one off without creasing it. :)

Virtual-Symmetry
04-06-2016, 18:32
I had a total of three attempted purchases of this unit, everyone has has signs of someone trying to remove that aluminium strip.

CornishPasty
04-06-2016, 19:09
Andre it's a Lenco, they aren't worth a carrot. People buy them because they're cheap. They can have a bit of fun modding them and chasing the dream.

Virtual-Symmetry
04-06-2016, 19:39
Yep down as one of the worse things i ever bought.

walpurgis
04-06-2016, 20:02
I've always got on rather well with Lencos. The arm has it's limitations, but is OK with medium compliance MMs. However, the TT section on the heavy platter models is very good and properly set up will give most good TTs more than just a run for their money.

CornishPasty
04-06-2016, 21:17
I absolutely agree and my daily driver atm is a Leak Lenco GL75, unmodified expect the tonearm which has been worked on. I'm very happy with it but it would need a lot of work to make it excel. I won't be doing that because it's too nice to spoil so unfortunately it'll never perform as well as I know it could.

Wakefield Turntables
05-06-2016, 09:38
I had great disdain for the Lenco's for a a very long time until I bought this one. The chasis is on an equal weight to a 301, the tonearm mechanism is a work of art altough the thought behind vibration supression into the tonearm wire and vibration from the motor into the tonearm itself when attached to the TT chasis could have been better designed. The platter is quite heavy, not upto 301 standards but still it's ok. The whole things is well worth the money if you like to play and mod TT's. The more I work on this Lenco the more I'm getting to appreciate the brand. I'd bet the 88's and 99's would give a 301/401 a serious run for its money, I think Lenco must have seen some design faults and modified TT design accordingly (or just ripped off Garrard's design :D).

Wakefield Turntables
05-06-2016, 09:41
I had a total of three attempted purchases of this unit, everyone has has signs of someone trying to remove that aluminium strip.

Mine didn't. Removing the aluminium strip is extremely simple, it's reliant on a heat gun and some very very thin high tensile wire. The job takes <5 minutes and the strip can be fitted back on again with ease, strip old adhesive of the back with solvent, allow to dry and then simple apply decent quality double contact adhesive or high quality super strength double sided tape. What's so hard about that? :scratch:

walpurgis
05-06-2016, 09:44
I'd bet the 88's and 99's would give a 301/401 a serious run for its money.

They do. I've owned the 88 & 99 & 301 & 401. The Garrards are maginally heftier, but clunkier to use. The Lencos sound at least as good in my opinion. The L75 has similar potential. (although, I have to say my current Toshiba SR-370 DD TT is as good as any of them and heavier :))

Wakefield Turntables
05-06-2016, 10:35
They do. I've owned the 88 & 99 & 301 & 401. The Garrards are maginally heftier, but clunkier to use. The Lencos sound at least as good in my opinion. The L75 has similar potential. (although, I have to say my current Toshiba SR-370 DD TT is as good as any of them and heavier :))

Well if I had to go down the route of listing which "type" of deck I prefer then I'd probably go :-

1. DD
2. Idler
3. Belt

Altough the more I look at Idler's the more I realise that the egineering is simple but extremely effective (in most cases)!

Wakefield Turntables
05-06-2016, 10:40
Got a little further last night. Good old Nitromorse. The finish under the paint is not bas at all, this example had some very nasty scratches over the tonearm cut out. So, it's going to be some elbow grease with some 180 grit wet and dry tonight. The rest of the plinth is going to be finished with 400 wet & dry. My friend has just informed me he's got a air compressor and spray so it looks like I may be having some fun with a bit of kit I've never used before :eyebrows:.

17147

I'm just in the process of trying to decide which primer to use, which colour to go for and then which protective spray to use afterwards. Any suggestions would be very very welcome.

Firebottle
05-06-2016, 10:45
.. so it looks like I may be having some fun with a bit of kit I've never used before..

Great when you can do that :)

I enjoy reading of your re-furbs, keep it up :thumbsup:

karma67
05-06-2016, 11:02
I enjoy reading of your re-furbs, keep it up :thumbsup:
me too :)

Wakefield Turntables
05-06-2016, 18:34
17148
The bearing looks very shoddy and someone in the dim and distant past plonked a load of elastic bands on the bottom. Very strange.
17149
The bearing is held together with one circlip at it's base. Here you can see the spindle, circlip, thrust plate, bearing and some screws being ultrasonically cleaned. I like to clean everything for a good 10 minutes. Whilst this was being cleaned I assessed the bush plates in the bearing shaft. They appeared to be fine so where left alone the bearing housing later got the same treatment as the spindle and all the other individual bearing components. I later cleaned the spingle shaft with IPA and reoiled.

17150
The bearing and the felt O ring had a 24 hour bath in oil before being refitted. The O ring was as dry as a nuns crutch so I lubricated it :eek:.

17151

The bearing reassembled. Bushes were rechecked from 12-6 & 3 to 9 positions and had NO movement. Job done.

struth
05-06-2016, 18:43
belt drive assist conversion :eyebrows:

walpurgis
05-06-2016, 19:40
Nice job. Looks good.


Snap. Here's one I did. Looks damn near the same (apart from the zip tie) :).

http://i68.tinypic.com/293iv6b.jpg


What oil did you use Andy?

Wakefield Turntables
05-06-2016, 20:39
Nice job. Looks good.


Snap. Here's one I did. Looks damn near the same (apart from the zip tie) :).

http://i68.tinypic.com/293iv6b.jpg


What oil did you use Andy?

Just standard 3-in-1 oil. Altough my Garrard 301 has some stuff Martin Bastin sent me.

Wakefield Turntables
10-06-2016, 21:23
Not much doing with the '75. I put it together today just to create some space. The platter has been polished on it's outer rim. The platter mat has been cleaned carefully with luke warm water and washing up liquid, a few scrubs later and it looks better in real life than in the picture. I tested the bearing by spinning the platter I managed well over 60 seconds before the platter stopped spinning. It looks like the bearing works but it's sonically still untested.

17181

Tomorrow will involve spending few quid on primer and body filler. I'll probably choose my colour whilst there and buy the paint as well, probably any protective laquer as well. The chasis needs a few holes filling in and some scratches working on.

17182

The plinth I've ordered. I have a six week wait.

The journey continues... ;)

Wakefield Turntables
10-06-2016, 21:24
Great when you can do that :)

I enjoy reading of your re-furbs, keep it up :thumbsup:


me too :)

Thanks guys.

Wakefield Turntables
12-06-2016, 20:53
Been away, just got back, big update on the deck.

A few bits from Halford,.

17195

The chasis prepped. All holes filled, wet and dry prep completed. Where the hell is the primer?

17196

Primed and ready to go.............. :hotrod:

17197

Metallic black, many many coats, wet and dry, many many coats.... :zzz:

17198


Some of the stuff polished and ready for fitting.

17199

I'm still not sure if im 100% happy with the chasis finish it might be another load of 1200 wet and dry with some more laquer. :(

Virtual-Symmetry
12-06-2016, 20:56
Looks ok but the slot in the chassis under the platter [where the Idler Wheel arm attaches], might scrape off the paint as it slides up & down when changing speed. You may have noticed the original had no paint around that area.

Wakefield Turntables
12-06-2016, 20:57
Looks ok but the slot where the Idler Wheel arm attaches, might scrape off the paint. You may have noticed the original had no paint around that area.

Yep, it sits under the platter no-one will notice, honest guvnor! Seriously lets see what happens, I'm keeping this one so if its looks shit I'll be the only one that see's it. ;)

walpurgis
12-06-2016, 21:02
Snap! :)

http://i66.tinypic.com/vscos1.jpg

One I did a little while ago, primed. I put an SME cutout in.

Virtual-Symmetry
12-06-2016, 21:03
As its black it would look a lot nicer if you sourced the chrome levers used on the say Goodmans badged '75. They cum up on Auction..

Wakefield Turntables
12-06-2016, 21:05
Snap! :)

http://i66.tinypic.com/vscos1.jpg

One I did a little while ago, primed. I put an SME cutout in.

Great minds Geoff!


As its black it would look a lot nicer if you sourced the chrome levers used on the say Goodmans badged '75. They cum up on Auction..

Might do, I'm still a little undecided as to the aesthetics of this deck.

Wakefield Turntables
14-06-2016, 19:13
Managed to get a lot further than I expected last night.

17217

I repopulated the deck with ~90% of its original gubbins.

I intend to strip and service the motor over the weekend.

Wakefield Turntables
19-06-2016, 21:35
Motor just before stripping and all the bits and pieces and gear and other things and too many ands....

17278

Back of motor stripped and very dirty.


17279

Front of motor, rather stupid, no pix unassembled. This is re-assembled and all nice and clean.


17280

Back of motor all clean and ready for greasing and oiling.

17283

Wakefield Turntables
19-06-2016, 21:44
17284


The motor chasis dirty and uncleaned




17286

The bearing housing full of 43 year old grease


17285

A quick pic of the motor wiring, full of 43 yr old oxidised Cu.


17288

Everything you'll ever need to make a Lenco 75 motor.

walpurgis
19-06-2016, 21:53
You'll need to waggle the back plate to get the armature central when it goes back in. Some use shims. I don't.

Wakefield Turntables
21-06-2016, 20:29
You'll need to waggle the back plate to get the armature central when it goes back in. Some use shims. I don't.

Not sure what you mean Geoff, which backblate and armature (are we talking the spindle)? Also where do the Shims go?

Wakefield Turntables
21-06-2016, 20:34
Progress is slow! The platter has now been polished and looks really good. The motor rebuild is also going slowly! I hate this bit in a deck rebuild. Loads of little jobs which when all finished make for a very nice functional TT. I've got some mucking around to do with the speed selector and then once everything is put back together I then have to recalibrate everything :eek:.

walpurgis
21-06-2016, 20:40
The plate with four bolt holes that has the rear bearing housing and coils on. Some use shims between the coils and armature at the front by the tapered spindle. I just waggle it until I get the armature looking concentric, then tighten the four bolts.

Wakefield Turntables
03-07-2016, 20:33
The Lenco so far.... The motor has been completely rebuilt. There has been no fine tweeking and the idler wheel is noisy. This is the first set-up and I just wanted to make sure the thing rotated the platter. The old Rega arm has been mounted as a tester and shall be replaced when I purchase something interesting. The whole deck will be mounted in a heavy birch ply plinth which should be arriving in 2-3 weeks.

17394


The underside of the platter. Motor rebuilt, polished, re-oiled, re-lubed. The bearings have been polished and ultrasonically cleaned. The spindle also recieved ultrasonic cleaning. The on/off swittch was repaired with a new capacitor. As you can see things are a lot simpler under the hood. The deck will be fine tuned and then shall be used as a unmodded reference. I have bigger plans for a reference Lenco through the back end of 2016. :eyebrows:

17395

Wakefield Turntables
09-07-2016, 20:10
It's been a while since I updated the thread. I decided i would buy another Lenco as a unmodded reference to see how the various mods to my Lenco Reference would sound. As you can see the listening room is looking a little crowded.


17459

One of the nagging issue that I have had is that of the speed selector. It's never properly sat in position ever since I dismanted the Lenco. Today I managed to check the alignment of my reference deck against the unmodded deck and I soon realised I'd incorrectly rebuilt the speed selector. Twenty minutes later and I now have a rock solid speed selector.


17458

I decided to removed the option to select 16/45/or 78 RPM I don't have any of these records so having the option on the Lenco is pointless. You can now see that the speed selector is locked at 33rpm. All the excess component have been safely bagged up. There is now less chance for vibration to go through the speed selector due to less components.

17460

The platter has been changed over and so has the platter mat. These are merely cosmetic changes to the deck. I now have a platter without any pitting on the rim and the platter mat isn't torn. I should be getting a new bitch ply plinth in 10 days so the next job is to replinth Lenco Reference and also the older untouched version and then I can start to make some comparisons. Another update tomorrow chums. :D

struth
09-07-2016, 20:41
Nice spray job by looks of it. Decent decks those.

Wakefield Turntables
09-07-2016, 20:50
Nice spray job by looks of it. Decent decks those.

Its needs redoing Grant. The Lenco's have extremely tight tolerances and I should have masked the various slider holes. I've started to notice scrapes on the underside due to the fact the various linkages, speed selectors, etc are catching the paintwork. :steam: This is part of the enjoyment from the hobby, learning as you go along.

Wakefield Turntables
11-07-2016, 20:22
More fettling the idler wheel was getting stuck and causing loads of noise. A quick change of the idler arm spring and a little trouble shooting led to me diagnosing the idler arm restrictor being bent out of place. This was replaced and the idler wheel no longer jams. The motor and idler are now making stupid amounts of noise. This has to be examined again alongside checking the springs are in the correct order. Slow but steady work. This is the way when your messing around with Idlers. The plinth is on it's way so hopefully the motor and idler will be in perfect working order when it arrives. Onwards....

Wakefield Turntables
14-07-2016, 21:33
hurray, a nearly silent motor. This was really 'doin mi ed in! The plinth should be arriving in a few days so things should improve more so. Lenco Heaven is a treasure trove of information but it's taking up a lot of my time going through all the threads. The old Lenco is a real rattle box and would probably benefit from some vibration dampening. The adventure continues.

walpurgis
14-07-2016, 21:47
Yes. Mine will eventually be getting some damping under the top plate and support pads too.

Jimbo
26-07-2016, 20:39
Yes. Mine will eventually be getting some damping under the top plate and support pads too.

What would you recommend to use for damping the top plate? Is it worth damping the platter as well ?

brian2957
26-07-2016, 20:48
+1 . I'm interested in this too .

walpurgis
26-07-2016, 21:01
What would you recommend to use for damping the top plate? Is it worth damping the platter as well ?

You can use Dynamat. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DYNAMAT-Sound-Deadning-Xtreme-Extreme-1-Sheet-270MMX450MM-/291245155513?hash=item43cf9064b9:g:UJEAAOSwQItT4QD W

Bear in mind, it's a warm environment and it can detach unless supported. Put self adhesive foam pads under it so they are sandwiched against the base where you can.

The easiest way to damp the platter is to use a decent platter mat.

brian2957
26-07-2016, 21:03
Thanks Geoff .

Wakefield Turntables
26-07-2016, 21:11
You could try Dynamat on the motor and the top plate but you might get an "over dampened" sonic signature. You could try a little at a time and see how this goes or you could try a Pete's Top Plate v5 which gets rid of the problem of the top plate and having to worry about surpressing vibration. :eyebrows: I'm still waiting for the plinth I ordered so I can't continue this journey or update the thread until it arrives.

struth
26-07-2016, 22:20
The silver stuff I put on the speakers, is the same, or very close Brian to Dynamat. Using carpet adhesive will help ensure it stays put

brian2957
27-07-2016, 06:49
Cheers mate . Did you buy it on line . Got a link ?

struth
27-07-2016, 08:13
Cheers mate . Did you buy it on line . Got a link ?

There it is mate. Any old carpet spray adhesive will do tbh. I got a tin off amazon the other day to do the covers for a fiver delivered. If you want to use some of it then no probs.. Its a big can and doubt i will be using it all b4 winter. Lol

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161282941044?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

brian2957
27-07-2016, 10:05
Yes I remember this stuff now Grant . The reason it wouldn't stick properly at first was because the wood inside the speaker was a bit rough . I'm pretty sure it will stick well to a smoother surface . Thanks .

Wakefield Turntables
04-08-2016, 19:11
The lenco hasnt been touched in ages due to the fact I've had other toys to play with, mainly a highly modded Croft pre-amp! I finally recieved my plinth a few days and yesterday found some time to assemble and take some pictures. The Lenco used to be partnered with an old Rega tonearm but this now needs re-wiring due to my clumsy fingers! I'm on the lookout for interesting 9" tonearm but hardly anything crops out that I would be interested. I quite fancy a fully loaded Audiomods V at some stage. Here are some pictures of the deck as it now looks.

17679176801768117682

I love the simple honest finish of Birch ply, this plinth was finished off with American oak veneer. The motor on the Lenco is virtually silent but I can still hear some motor noise albeit a very small amount and TBH cannot be heard when listening to vinyl. So, I may have some experiments to get the motor even quieter. This Lenco still runs from the mains and has no speed controller but I'm hoping to change this when I finally get around to making my nigels Speed Controller.

Wakefield Turntables
06-08-2016, 07:55
The build of the speed controller starts today. So I've found my old pcb, got the all important IC chip and started to get an order ready with Darnell. I'm not quite sure which case to go for but that's all the fun of the build. Looks like more research over on the lenco heaven forum for ideas.

brian2957
06-08-2016, 07:58
The lenco hasnt been touched in ages due to the fact I've had other toys to play with, mainly a highly modded Croft pre-amp! I finally recieved my plinth a few days and yesterday found some time to assemble and take some pictures. The Lenco used to be partnered with an old Rega tonearm but this now needs re-wiring due to my clumsy fingers! I'm on the lookout for interesting 9" tonearm but hardly anything crops out that I would be interested. I quite fancy a fully loaded Audiomods V at some stage. Here are some pictures of the deck as it now looks.

17679176801768117682

I love the simple honest finish of Birch ply, this plinth was finished off with American oak veneer. The motor on the Lenco is virtually silent but I can still hear some motor noise albeit a very small amount and TBH cannot be heard when listening to vinyl. So, I may have some experiments to get the motor even quieter. This Lenco still runs from the mains and has no speed controller but I'm hoping to change this when I finally get around to making my nigels Speed Controller.

Beautiful plinth Andrew . I really like what you've done to this GL75 .

Gazjam
06-08-2016, 08:46
Thanks for the link Grant, had some success lining the casework of my kit and I'd ran out of the other stuff I was using.
This stuff looks just the dab. :)


There it is mate. Any old carpet spray adhesive will do tbh. I got a tin off amazon the other day to do the covers for a fiver delivered. If you want to use some of it then no probs.. Its a big can and doubt i will be using it all b4 winter. Lol

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161282941044?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Wakefield Turntables
06-08-2016, 09:18
Beautiful plinth Andrew . I really like what you've don to this GL75 .

Thanks. Lenco's are very addicitive. The plinth is very heavy and I already have some ideas for improvement. I've seen some lenco plinths supporting 4 tonearms, the guys over at lenco heaven have probably done just about every mod under the sun. I'm very impressed with these little decks. They are extremely simple and provide extremely good SPPVFM. thse decks really do give Garrard 301/401 a decent run for the money.

brian2957
06-08-2016, 09:21
Agreed on the simplicity / excellent engineering front . I've been quite surprised how good mine sounds .

Wakefield Turntables
07-08-2016, 18:40
The Lenco project is about to get a lot more interesting as I have just finished my order with Farnell electronics in Leeds for the parts towards a Nigel Speed Controller. This should be quite fun as I have a bit of a potted history with a soldering iron (remember the 1210 incident)! I've ordered new silver tonearm wire as I intend to rewire the old REGA tonearm and then I think we are ready to roll. I've still to decide which cart to use on the Lenco I fancied something old school, maybe a Shure, or a Supex, something different.

Jimbo
07-08-2016, 18:42
Thanks. Lenco's are very addicitive. The plinth is very heavy and I already have some ideas for improvement. I've seen some lenco plinths supporting 4 tonearms, the guys over at lenco heaven have probably done just about every mod under the sun. I'm very impressed with these little decks. They are extremely simple and provide extremely good SPPVFM. thse decks really do give Garrard 301/401 a decent run for the money.

I agree they certainly give 301/401 a run for their money. In fact I like my Lenco more than the 301 I used to have. Pity I can't use the Decca on the Lenco however with the stock arm!

walpurgis
07-08-2016, 18:57
I agree they certainly give 301/401 a run for their money. In fact I like my Lenco more than the 301 I used to have. Pity I can't use the Decca on the Lenco however with the stock arm!

I've seen and heard Deccas working well and sounding very good in the Lenco arm.

Jimbo
07-08-2016, 19:10
I've seen and heard Deccas working well and sounding very good in the Lenco arm.

Mmmm... Might give it a try Geoff. I must say the Decca and the damped Unipivot VPI arm are a superb match.:)

Jimbo
07-08-2016, 19:13
The Lenco project is about to get a lot more interesting as I have just finished my order with Farnell electronics in Leeds for the parts towards a Nigel Speed Controller. This should be quite fun as I have a bit of a potted history with a soldering iron (remember the 1210 incident)! I've ordered new silver tonearm wire as I intend to rewire the old REGA tonearm and then I think we are ready to roll. I've still to decide which cart to use on the Lenco I fancied something old school, maybe a Shure, or a Supex, something different.


Shure M55 or M75 good place to start. Maybe try a JICO stylus if you think they sound a bit too laid back.

walpurgis
07-08-2016, 19:17
Not sure how it was done. Presumably by drilling the threads out on the cartridge mounting plate in the headshell and using through bolts or drilling the Decca mount to allow Lenco bolts through or making up a dedicated mounting plate for the Decca, which is what I'd do.

Jimbo
07-08-2016, 19:22
Not sure how it was done. Presumably by drilling the threads out on the cartridge mounting plate in the headshell and using through bolts or drilling the Decca mount to allow Lenco bolts through or making up a dedicated mounting plate for the Decca, which is what I'd do.

I was reading over on Lencoheaven a very nasty tale of someone who used a Decca in the GL 75 tonearm and it gave him a fright as it could not contain the energy of the tin can and transmitted horrors through his headshell and tonearm!

Wakefield Turntables
07-08-2016, 19:30
Shure M55 with stylus + delivery snagged for £21.30! It's probably buggered but at that price I'm not complaining.

Jimbo
07-08-2016, 19:33
Shure M55 with stylus + delivery snagged for £21.30! It's probably buggered but at that price I'm not complaining.

That's a bargain but easy to get replacement stylus if it's shafted.

Wakefield Turntables
07-08-2016, 19:50
New JICO stylus snagged from Japan £42 including delivery.

walpurgis
07-08-2016, 19:50
I was reading over on Lencoheaven a very nasty tale of someone who used a Decca in the GL 75 tonearm and it gave him a fright as it could not contain the energy of the tin can and transmitted horrors through his headshell and tonearm!

Could be the mounting plate was resonating. They aren't the most rigid of items. That's why I'd make a dedicated one for a Decca. Maybe using Paxolin or Tufnol sheet.

brian2957
07-08-2016, 20:09
Shure M55 or M75 good place to start. Maybe try a JICO stylus if you think they sound a bit too laid back.

James do you know if either of these stylus will fit the M44-7 body ? Are they an upgrade ?

Jimbo
08-08-2016, 05:59
James do you know if either of these stylus will fit the M44-7 body ? Are they an upgrade ?

The M55 will fit the M44 body not sure about M75 stylus. Here you go, choose your weapon off this page, all the N55e will fit.

If I were you Brian I would go for the n55e improved or the SAS if you have a lottery win.:)

http://www.jico-stylus.com/index.php?cPath=18&sort=2a&page=4

brian2957
08-08-2016, 06:21
Thanks James , I'll probably buy it this week when I win the lottery :D

Barry
08-08-2016, 17:59
Shure M55 with stylus + delivery snagged for £21.30! It's probably buggered but at that price I'm not complaining.

Black coloured body or brown?

Wakefield Turntables
08-08-2016, 19:18
Black coloured body or brown?

Brown I think. I took a complete punt and bought this as seen. The picture was very fuzzy so for £21 I'm not that bothered about the body colour, why, what's the significance Barry?

Wakefield Turntables
08-08-2016, 19:35
I decided I'd spend a little more time with the Lenco tonight and did a little tweeking with a few bits I had laying around. I wanted to surpress vibration go into the chasis and idler wheel. So this is what I came up with. I noticed with the platter off that the idler wheel seemed to be generating quite a bit of noise and realised that the idler arm surpressor was not properly aligned. Simply lifting this up surpressed the noise I heard.

17715


I stuffed a load of blutack behing the idler arm supressor and this reduced vibration and audible noise quite a bit. Not the most technical of fixes but I hope that the vibration is surpressed enough not to get back into the platter.

17716

The plinth is quite heavy and sits on three feet. I've got some 10mm sorbothane sitting around so I did a little experiment with sitting the plinth on an off the three sorbothane feet. Sitting the plinth on the feet seemed to quieten down the motor a little further so I shall fabricate another three footers and stick these on the plinth's feet.

17717

I also decided that I wasn't happy with the power cable fitted to the Lenco. I took inspiration from the 301 and Martin Bastin. I decided to try and isolate any vibration originating from the power lead from getting into the motor and then further up the tree to the idler wheel and platter. I'm a firm believer that it's the cumulative effects of the small tweeks that ultimately lead to sonic improvement so out came the blutack! The mains lead is now covered in blutack as it enters the back of the plinth, the mains lead is also quite loose and has very little tension as it enters the motor. I did not want the mains lead to drag the motor down and effect the efficieny of the spring suspension from preventing vibrations getting into the platter. The plug got a slight upgrade to a silver plated version that I had sitting in my spares box the fuse is silver plated as well, is this going to have an impact? I don't know honestly know. ;)

1771817719

Can't really do much more now until the tonearm wiring and Shure Cartridge arrive.

Jimbo
08-08-2016, 19:45
Useful stuff Blue Tac:)

Wakefield Turntables
08-08-2016, 19:46
Useful stuff Blue Tac:)

Yeah it's free as have all of tonights tweeks, they are the best type.

Jimbo
08-08-2016, 19:49
Used to stand my speakers on it but have slowly reduced the amount I use to the point it just about stops the speakers sliding off their stands. I must be bonkers! Now a big lump of it is sitting on top of my Decca.:D

Arkless Electronics
08-08-2016, 20:20
Quick question for you idle(r) lot.. Are the things truly silent as regards rumble/motor noise through the stylus etc? I have a couple (I think) of GL75's and I tried one briefly about 20 years ago by fitting a unipivot arm and reasonable MM on it, just to get an idea etc. It rumbled like buggery and sounded awful. I have heard one sound great at a NEBO a few years back (at the marina in Hartlepool. I cant remember who owned it but it had a 2M black on it) so I'm wondering if it's worthwhile pursuing any further? I really cant be doing with any background motor/bearing/idler wheel noise personally though!

Jimbo
08-08-2016, 20:25
Quick question for you idle(r) lot.. Are the things truly silent as regards rumble/motor noise through the stylus etc? I have a couple (I think) of GL75's and I tried one briefly about 20 years ago by fitting a unipivot arm and reasonable MM on it, just to get an idea etc. It rumbled like buggery and sounded awful. I have heard one sound great at a NEBO a few years back (at the marina in Hartlepool. I cant remember who owned it but it had a 2M black on it) so I'm wondering if it's worthwhile pursuing any further? I really cant be doing with any background motor/bearing/idler wheel noise personally though!

Mine is totally silent Jez, as witnessed by Macca on Saturday. Most noise from GL75 is usually from the motor / idler wheel especially when they have been 'serviced' or messed with.

walpurgis
08-08-2016, 20:42
Yes. They are very quiet once set up properly.

Wakefield Turntables
09-08-2016, 07:46
My 301 is totally silent. The Lenco is 99.0% silent. I can just hear a tiny hint of motor/idler wheel rotation. If I sit 6 inches away from the deck I can just hear the faintest of noises, I'm now sat approx 24" away and it's completely silent. TBH I'm being extremely pedantic with regards the noise.

Jimbo
09-08-2016, 08:32
When I get 6 inches away from mine I can't hear anything so I think you should get it a bit quieter ? It should run silent.

Wakefield Turntables
09-08-2016, 18:42
When I get 6 inches away from mine I can't hear anything so I think you should get it a bit quieter ? It should run silent.

I've found that a lot of the noise from the Lenco comes from the tightness of the four screws holding the motor casing together. I've got the mains earthed into one of the four screws and when that's removed the motor does seems to generate less vibration, so where else could earth the mains? In all honesty Jim the Lenco honestly generates such an extremely small amount of noise that I'm not that bothered. It's my 3rd deck TBH and pretty low down the pecking order when I listen to vinyl it's usually the 1210 or 301 in service. I'm more interested in seeing how each little mod over on Lenco heaven effects the deck. The tonearm is going to be the next area of tweek and fettle!

Jimbo
09-08-2016, 18:46
Which tonearm are you using?

Wakefield Turntables
09-08-2016, 19:24
See post #53 it's an old Rega I bought from a fellow member. Didn't sound too bad until a snapped the right channel wire :doh:

Wakefield Turntables
09-08-2016, 19:48
Brian,

As promised a couple of Idler wheel pics. Let me know if you want some more, hope they help.

1772417725

The idler looks a little skewed but it more the position of the camera, I promised you it's straight.

Finally I bolted the old Rega Tonearm on today. Here's how my 3rd system is looking. It's the Lenco GL75, a Quad 405-2 (fully net audio modded), then a selection of valves in the form of Radford pre/power amp. I have a few mains filters and a Lenco head amp.

17726

This is the lull before the storm. I've a few little parcels arriving over the next few weeks. The Tonearm should be finished in the next few days and hopefully I can start playing some vinyl to get a feel for the machine. I'll probably start bashing Lenco Heaven to really fine tune the deck. I'm enjoying this Lenco journey.

Jimbo
09-08-2016, 19:57
Very nice looking deck Andrew, understated and clean look.

They are great to work on and very well engineered in my opinion. I really like the drive to the sound and the compulsive way they have with rock and jazz music.

brian2957
09-08-2016, 22:25
Brian,

As promised a couple of Idler wheel pics. Let me know if you want some more, hope they help.

1772417725

The idler looks a little skewed but it more the position of the camera, I promised you it's straight.

Finally I bolted the old Rega Tonearm on today. Here's how my 3rd system is looking. It's the Lenco GL75, a Quad 405-2 (fully net audio modded), then a selection of valves in the form of Radford pre/power amp. I have a few mains filters and a Lenco head amp.

17726

This is the lull before the storm. I've a few little parcels arriving over the next few weeks. The Tonearm should be finished in the next few days and hopefully I can start playing some vinyl to get a feel for the machine. I'll probably start bashing Lenco Heaven to really fine tune the deck. I'm enjoying this Lenco journey.

Thanks Andrew , difficult to see properly . At 33rpm the idler wheel on mine seems to be very close to the ridge which drops the speed down to 16rpm .

Nice system BTW .

brian2957
10-08-2016, 06:59
Sorry for hijacking your thread Andrew . This is what I mean . The idler wheel is in this position at 33 rpm . Is yours the same ?

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/P1010777_zpsino8gsr4.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/P1010777_zpsino8gsr4.jpg.html)

Wakefield Turntables
10-08-2016, 07:33
I'll have a look when I get back tonight. You need to lose the two red transits screws that I see in your picture. They generate a lot of rattle in the motor and also change the declination angle of the motor which will effect the idler. Even to keeping them in situ like you have now will cause them to rattle and hit the lenco chassis.

brian2957
10-08-2016, 07:35
Didn't know about the screws . Thanks for that Andrew .

rossman
10-08-2016, 13:23
Sorry for hijacking your thread Andrew . This is what I mean . The idler wheel is in this position at 33 rpm . Is yours the same ?

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/P1010777_zpsino8gsr4.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/P1010777_zpsino8gsr4.jpg.html)

Brian, the position of the idler arm can be adjusted at the slider but you would need to get under the top plate to do this. You would then have more room to alter the speeds. This would mean that the positions of the pieces that keep the control in place for each speed would also need adjusting.

Wakefield Turntables
10-08-2016, 13:34
Brian, the position of the idler arm can be adjusted at the slider but you would need to get under the top plate to do this. You would then have more room to alter the speeds. This would mean that the positions of the pieces that keep the control in place for each speed would also need adjusting.

good point Paul. My Lenco has been modded to just play 33rpm as I only own albums. Modding the deck just to play at 33rpm would mean that Brian would only need to alter the speed selector for the 33rpm all the other could just be removed. If you look earlier in the thread I have added a picture showing just such a modification.

brian2957
10-08-2016, 14:16
I knew you had '' locked '' yours into the 33rpm position Andrew and that's why I asked you about the position of the idler wheel with regards to the motor spindle .

brian2957
10-08-2016, 14:17
Brian, the position of the idler arm can be adjusted at the slider but you would need to get under the top plate to do this. You would then have more room to alter the speeds. This would mean that the positions of the pieces that keep the control in place for each speed would also need adjusting.
Thanks Paul , I'll have a look at that .

Wakefield Turntables
10-08-2016, 15:18
I knew you had '' locked '' yours into the 33rpm position Andrew and that's why I asked you about the position of the idler wheel with regards to the motor spindle .

It's not technically locked it still slides up and down so I could in theory still select any speed from several RPM upto and beyond 78 RPM I just removed the various speed selectors from the chassis to minimise additional vibrations from being produced.

brian2957
10-08-2016, 15:36
Ah .. I misunderstood what you said Andrew . I was thinking about doing the same thing as I won't be using the other speeds .

Wakefield Turntables
10-08-2016, 20:23
More pressies! The Lenco project can now move forward a little faster.


17732

So the brown bodied Shure M55E arrives with stylus. The cartridge works and for £21.60 delivered is a bloody bargain.
17733

Some silver tonearm wire to rewire the old Rega. That's tomorrow's job.
17734

Finally a quick pic showing the Shure working on my Garrard 301. It really does make a very nice noise. I can't believe I dropped on this lucky. The cart needs it's pins cleaning properly and a decent headshell along decent cartridge tags but for the time being I'm just happy to be amazed at this little gem. The Lenco should be signing in anger by the end of the week when the tonearm is rewired.

Wakefield Turntables
10-08-2016, 20:28
Brian.

I just checked my Idler wheel and it's no where near the position of yours. Mine sits approx 1/2" away from the 16rpm dip on the spindle.

brian2957
10-08-2016, 20:31
OK thanks Andrew . I'll recheck the speed with the strobe disc and leave well alone methinks :D

Attachments no worky on my computer BTW .

Wakefield Turntables
10-08-2016, 20:40
OK thanks Andrew . I'll recheck the speed with the strobe disc and leave well alone methinks :D

Attachments no worky on my computer BTW .

Wise man! I'll be fettlin, "proper", next week when I've had a few days just listening to the Lenco and it's plinth.

brian2957
10-08-2016, 20:52
I'll keep my eye on this thread mate , thanks for your help :)

Jimbo
11-08-2016, 06:00
More pressies! The Lenco project can now move forward a little faster.


17732

So the brown bodied Shure M55E arrives with stylus. The cartridge works and for £21.60 delivered is a bloody bargain.
17733

Some silver tonearm wire to rewire the old Rega. That's tomorrow's job.
17734

Finally a quick pic showing the Shure working on my Garrard 301. It really does make a very nice noise. I can't believe I dropped on this lucky. The cart needs it's pins cleaning properly and a decent headshell along decent cartridge tags but for the time being I'm just happy to be amazed at this little gem. The Lenco should be signing in anger by the end of the week when the tonearm is rewired.


The Shure should sound great on the Lenco.

Wakefield Turntables
11-08-2016, 19:12
Few more bits and pieces in the Lenco's journey.

Fabricated the 10mm Sorbothane footers.

17737

Optimised the cart for the deck. A Shure M55E with Ortofon headshell and high purity cartridge leads.

17738

A little cartridge prep work. The pins on this cartridge were filthy. Now we have shiny pins for hopefully better sonics.

17739

Next job is the Tonearm repair.

brian2957
11-08-2016, 20:08
Nice one Andrew , you're getting there :)

Wakefield Turntables
15-08-2016, 18:13
The Lenco journey has taken a few twists and turns. I decided to delegate a big job today with regards Nigels Speed Controller. One of our friendly Guru's is going to be building this for me, more on this later! The tonearm saga continues but I have had a couple of nice offers. The cartridge quandry has been partially solved with the Shure M55E and a Decca Maroon. I'm beginning to wonder if a 12" tonearm might be a better solution for the Lenco. I'm looking over at the Lenco at the moment to see a gaping hole in the top plate where a tonearm should be sitting and can't stop thinking that the top plate is the Lenco's Achilles heel, maybe an external tonearm pod would be a better answer it would certainly stop virtually all motor vibration . I could fill the tonearm hole with a rubber plug until a really intersting 9" came along. Ah... decisions decisions. Stay tooned!!

brian2957
15-08-2016, 18:18
I might be interested in a speed controller for mine Andrew . Do you have details of parts and who is building this for you . PM appreciated mate .

Jimbo
15-08-2016, 19:14
The Lenco journey has taken a few twists and turns. I decided to delegate a big job today with regards Nigels Speed Controller. One of our friendly Guru's is going to be building this for me, more on this later! The tonearm saga continues but I have had a couple of nice offers. The cartridge quandry has been partially solved with the Shure M55E and a Decca Maroon. I'm beginning to wonder if a 12" tonearm might be a better solution for the Lenco. I'm looking over at the Lenco at the moment to see a gaping hole in the top plate where a tonearm should be sitting and can't stop thinking that the top plate is the Lenco's Achilles heel, maybe an external tonearm pod would be a better answer it would certainly stop virtually all motor vibration . I could fill the tonearm hole with a rubber plug until a really intersting 9" came along. Ah... decisions decisions. Stay tooned!!

All good fun Andy:) The journey will be worth it for sure. If you are thinking of using a Decca with the Lenco you might be best to consider a damped unipivot design.

Wakefield Turntables
15-08-2016, 19:52
I might be interested in a speed controller for mine Andrew . Do you have details of parts and who is building this for you . PM appreciated mate .

You need to go over to Lenco Heaven and then read the following threads in full.

http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=13981.0
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=14824.0
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=2042.0

This will give you a thorough history of the speed controllers. You can order your parts from Farnell Electronics in Leeds. You will need the speed controller PCB, these are currently sold out but they do come up on offer every now and then or you could put in a request to try and buy a spare from a fellow Lenco Heaven member. You will also need a special IC chip, again read the above threads to find out more details. I'm using our own Jez @ Arkless for this project. Give him a call to discuss rates. There are specific PDF files which you can download over on Lenco Heaven with regards the parts list and how to build it.



All good fun Andy:) The journey will be worth it for sure. If you are thinking of using a Decca with the Lenco you might be best to consider a damped unipivot design.

I've seen a few on eBay, the search continues.

brian2957
15-08-2016, 19:59
Thanks Andy , I'm sure Jez will do an excellent job . Please keep us posted.

Wakefield Turntables
15-08-2016, 20:16
Hmmmmmm..... just seen a really nice contender for the tonearm. It's one I've been after for a while....:eyebrows:

brian2957
15-08-2016, 20:20
This'll be interesting . Hope you get it Andrew . For the GL75 ?

Wakefield Turntables
15-08-2016, 20:22
This'll be interesting . Hope you get it Andrew . For the GL75 ?

YEP!

brian2957
15-08-2016, 20:37
Good luck !

CornishPasty
15-08-2016, 20:40
I like the Lenco top plate and there's nothing much wrong with it that can't be sorted by filling in the open areas with two part resin mix. This strengthens the top plate and reduces resonances. Imo getting the arm off the top plate and onto the plinth is probably the biggest gain. A twelve inch arm also means a bigger plinth so more mass which is better still. The motor will never be absolutely silent. Just one of those things you have to live with.

Wakefield Turntables
16-08-2016, 07:19
I like the Lenco top plate and there's nothing much wrong with it that can't be sorted by filling in the open areas with two part resin mix. This strengthens the top plate and reduces resonances. Imo getting the arm off the top plate and onto the plinth is probably the biggest gain. A twelve inch arm also means a bigger plinth so more mass which is better still. The motor will never be absolutely silent. Just one of those things you have to live with.

all the gaps have been filled. I've already done a 12" tonearm and heavy plinth build and your correct with regards mass. The top plate resonates like a bugger compared to my 301.

CornishPasty
16-08-2016, 08:51
I can understand the Lenco top plate being more resonant than the Garrard. What did you use to fill in your top plate?

Wakefield Turntables
16-08-2016, 09:02
Two part resin mix.

CornishPasty
16-08-2016, 13:26
Two part resin mix.

And it still rings?

Wakefield Turntables
16-08-2016, 14:39
And it still rings?

Its pretty inert but as I said when compared to the 301 it's not cracking.

Wakefield Turntables
16-08-2016, 20:05
Well that's it, the Speed Controller is now under construction, no turning back now! The Shure M55E and new JICO stylus sounds fantastic on the 301 let's hope this can continue over onto the Lenco. Just the tonearm now and then I've done for now. I'm looking forward to putting the 1210 and the 301 away for a while and just getting used to the sonic characteristics of the Lenco. :)

brian2957
16-08-2016, 20:19
Looking forward to your take on this turntable Andrew .

Cristobal
17-08-2016, 00:26
Funny thread... :) As a long time Lenco fan, Lenco Référence and Lenco Heaven forums member, I have to smile when I read that some AoS inmates seem to think that a Lenco L75 is a kind of rudimentery tool for Neanderthal men...

And I impatienly wait for the moment when someone is going to write that a properly modified Lenco L75 (or L78 for that matter) runs rings around that springy Scottish thing, what do you call it, Lynn Sundeck, or whatever...:rolleyes:

brian2957
17-08-2016, 06:55
I got my hands on a GL75 a few weeks ago and view it as a piece of precision engineering . Once I had serviced it and used it I decided that it was good enough to remain in its original state and mine will be staying that way . This is my first turntable for over 35 years , so I have nothing to compare it to .
There are members on here who are comparing the GL75 favourably to some very good turntables and I don't believe that any of them , nor me for that matter , are neanderthal .

Wakefield Turntables
17-08-2016, 08:10
And I impatienly wait for the moment when someone is going to write that a properly modified Lenco L75 (or L78 for that matter) runs rings around that springy Scottish thing, what do you call it, Lynn Sundeck, or whatever...:rolleyes:

That's quite a strong comment, but I like it! It's no surprise that I sold my Lynn Sundeck nearly 10 years ago. :) As I have stated the 75 does gives the 301 a run for it's money but there are better decks, the Lenco won't be my transcritpion tool of choice.

Cristobal
17-08-2016, 21:36
the Lenco won't be my transcritpion tool of choice.

Same for me if we talk about the stock Lenco. But the beauty of this dear old Swiss cuckoo is that it is "tweakable" ad libitum.

Do a Google search and find what a Canadian guy called Jean Nantais has done with the humble Lenco. Not need to say, this souped up Lenco is not really cheap as the Lencos you find in Belgian flea markets...

When you're at it, Google "Arthur Salvator", repented American high end dealer, who thinks that Jean Nantais' version of the Lenco is ... simply the best turntable in the known universe.

Jimbo
18-08-2016, 06:01
Same for me if we talk about the stock Lenco. But the beauty of this dear old Swiss cuckoo is that it is "tweakable" ad libitum.

Do a Google search and find what a Canadian guy called Jean Nantais has done with the humble Lenco. Not need to say, this souped up Lenco is not really cheap as the Lencos you find in Belgian flea markets...


When you're at it, Google "Arthur Salvator", repented American high end dealer, who thinks that Jean Nantais' version of the Lenco is ... simply the best turntable in the known universe.

Yes Christian they maybe infinitely tweak able but this does not necessarily mean they sound or look better.

brian2957
18-08-2016, 06:41
Yes Christian they maybe infinitely tweak able but this does not necessarily mean they sound or look better.

+1 for what James has said . The only thing I'll be changing on mine is the cartridge . Everything else will be staying the same .

Wakefield Turntables
18-08-2016, 07:20
There does come a point when a lenco isn't a lenco. Boundaries are blurred and I think the lenco has two camp, those who love the original design no wish to keep things pure and those who like to tweak. I personally like to tweak but I can see the beauty in the original lenco design and it hails from when I was born in the early 70s so it must be good��

brian2957
18-08-2016, 07:53
Yes , I respect both camps here . I've seen some beautiful modded GL75s , yours included Andrew . I may go down that road at a later stage if I find a totally unloved unit which needs restored . I just really like the looks of the unmodded one which I have just now . and it sounds excellent to boot .

struth
18-08-2016, 10:18
Aye, the arm is a bit misunderstood, as it can be very good. I am in the main, a non tweaked version of lenco, although repainting and general tidying is fine... Even removing the speed selector too as most folk now will never use it

walpurgis
18-08-2016, 10:25
Yes , I respect both camps here . I've seen some beautiful modded GL75s , yours included Andrew . I may go down that road at a later stage if I find a totally unloved unit which needs restored . I just really like the looks of the unmodded one which I have just now . and it sounds excellent to boot .

I agree with you Brian.

Keep the nice original unit as it is, but for experimenting find another GL75 that needs a bit of love and care as a basis for a more advanced project.

Wakefield Turntables
18-08-2016, 11:20
Modding Lencos can be addictive. I've already got plans for a REFERENCE lenco, maybe something to topple my 301:stalks:

Cristobal
18-08-2016, 12:47
When is a Lenco not a Lenco anymore? Good question, though I do not really care about it. I have a stock Lenco L78 SE (with the Jelco S shaped OEM tonearm, which is nice), totally unmodified, and I like it. I also have a super tweaked L78, and it does not look like a Lenco anymore, so what? But it certainly does sound better than the stock item.

Lencos are not holy cows. Feel free to ditch the appaling plinth, the mediocre standard tonearm and keep what's really good: motor, idler and platter. Now you have the potential to transform the humble cartwheel into a Formula One.

Wakefield Turntables
18-08-2016, 12:53
I totally agree with you, the bits are indeed the Motor, platter and idler. I'm going to probably design and build a reference grade lenco at some point, maybe very heavy wood platter with PTP and Nigel's speed controller and relevant arm.

Cristobal
18-08-2016, 13:01
Wood platter? I suppose you mean wood plinth.

Nigel speed controller: first, ask yourself "is it really useful"? Second: try to find one... Third: try to find all the electronic components. Fourth: build the thing.

Is it worth it? In my opinion, no.

brian2957
18-08-2016, 13:16
I agree with you Brian.

Keep the nice original unit as it is, but for experimenting find another GL75 that needs a bit of love and care as a basis for a more advanced project.

I've learned a lot about this turntable Geoff , knowledge which I can carry on to another project . I'm now a '' dyed in the wool '' GL75 fanboy :lol:

Arkless Electronics
18-08-2016, 15:04
Wood platter? I suppose you mean wood plinth.

Nigel speed controller: first, ask yourself "is it really useful"? Second: try to find one... Third: try to find all the electronic components. Fourth: build the thing.

Is it worth it? In my opinion, no.

It's all doable. I'm commencing building one for Andy (Rexton) at the moment;)

IF there were enough interest (the interest must come first!) I can make my own take on a speed controller/power supply suitable for Lenco's, Thorens TD124, Garrard 301/401 etc. I have a design "up my sleeve" which I designed a couple of years ago but have taken no further than computer simulation so far.
It would not need the difficult to get IC in the Nigel's speed controller and should have lower output waveform distortion also. It would be for 33rpm only so the turntables speed change mechanism would have to be used to get other speeds.
It would really take at least half a dozen people saying to me "If it is as good as you claim Jez then I will buy one" before I would have any interest in taking it further... No way am I going to spend hundreds of £ and hours of my time completing the R&D and building such a niche product unless I know there are buyers out there waiting!

Wakefield Turntables
18-08-2016, 17:32
Wood platter? I suppose you mean wood plinth.

Nigel speed controller: first, ask yourself "is it really useful"? Second: try to find one... Third: try to find all the electronic components. Fourth: build the thing.

Is it worth it? In my opinion, no.

I've something similar for my 301 and it made the world of difference, perhaps your Lenco is so superb it dosen't need a speed controller. :rolleyes:


It's all doable. I'm commencing building one for Andy (Rexton) at the moment;)

IF there were enough interest (the interest must come first!) I can make my own take on a speed controller/power supply suitable for Lenco's, Thorens TD124, Garrard 301/401 etc. I have a design "up my sleeve" which I designed a couple of years ago but have taken no further than computer simulation so far.
It would not need the difficult to get IC in the Nigel's speed controller and should have lower output waveform distortion also. It would be for 33rpm only so the turntables speed change mechanism would have to be used to get other speeds.
It would really take at least half a dozen people saying to me "If it is as good as you claim Jez then I will buy one" before I would have any interest in taking it further... No way am I going to spend hundreds of £ and hours of my time completing the R&D and building such a niche product unless I know there are buyers out there waiting!

Hmmm, lower wave ouput distortion, what's the matter with Nigels speed controller, just how distorted is the old sine wave?

Barry
18-08-2016, 17:51
It's all doable. I'm commencing building one for Andy (Rexton) at the moment;)

IF there were enough interest (the interest must come first!) I can make my own take on a speed controller/power supply suitable for Lenco's, Thorens TD124, Garrard 301/401 etc. I have a design "up my sleeve" which I designed a couple of years ago but have taken no further than computer simulation so far.
It would not need the difficult to get IC in the Nigel's speed controller and should have lower output waveform distortion also. It would be for 33rpm only so the turntables speed change mechanism would have to be used to get other speeds.
It would really take at least half a dozen people saying to me "If it is as good as you claim Jez then I will buy one" before I would have any interest in taking it further... No way am I going to spend hundreds of £ and hours of my time completing the R&D and building such a niche product unless I know there are buyers out there waiting!

I assume that your power supply for the Garrard/Thorens is a precision variable-frequency (50Hz +/- 5Hz ?) 230V power supply of say 20W capacity. I would be interested in such a beast.

However, assuming you can find say 6 interested customers, how much would the speed controller cost?

Arkless Electronics
18-08-2016, 18:03
I assume that your power supply for the Garrard/Thorens is a precision variable-frequency (50Hz +/- 5Hz ?) 230V power supply of say 20W capacity. I would be interested in such a beast.

However, assuming you can find say 6 interested customers, how much would the speed controller cost?

You assume with precision;)

Based on similar parts cost to the Nigel's speed controller, which I would expect, and a decent but not mega bling case, I reckon we're talking around the £600 ish mark.
As there are two transformers and a big heatsink involved the parts cost is quite a bit...

Arkless Electronics
18-08-2016, 18:41
I've something similar for my 301 and it made the world of difference, perhaps your Lenco is so superb it dosen't need a speed controller. :rolleyes:



Hmmm, lower wave ouput distortion, what's the matter with Nigels speed controller, just how distorted is the old sine wave?

The XR2206 used as the frequency generator can only go down to around 0.5% at very best and nearer 1% often, even with best adjustment on a THD meter.
Compared to the levels of distortion on the mains this is low and so will probably be fine. These types of IC always add a peculiar little "pip" to the peaks and troughs of the sine wave as well though.
I am expecting mine to be around 0.05% or better. I'm also thinking in terms of regulation of the output mains voltage and possibly negative feedback from the output transformer secondary to give even lower THD and better regulation.

As you only require 33rpm on your Nigel's speed controller I could add a filter circuit to get distortion well down on yours... but obviously it would add to the cost and I can't for one second claim to have any practical experience of whether 0.05% or less THD would sound any better on a speed controller than 0.5-1%.

As the XR2206 IC is difficult to find these days I'm thinking of a different frequency generation method for mine and suitable filtration for super output purity as part of the basic design. Different filters would be needed for each speed hence I'm saying 33rpm only for the unit I'm talking about here. Electronic switching of the speeds would be possible but much more difficult and costly than in the Nigel's speed controller. I'm guessing most people would only want 33rpm anyhow...

As the Lenco, Thorens 124 and Garrards all use mains synchronous motors of rather more power draw than those on something like an LP12, it should be suitable for all such TT's and similar (as I would expect from the Nigel's speed controller but it may not have been verified for use with all these). If wider variation in output voltage etc are required for using the Garrards without eddy current disks then that can be accommodated...

As the cost of parts alone for these sort of speed controllers comes to around £200 including a case, and as at present my own design is only at computer simulation stage and much further development time will be needed, I'm afraid I am not planning on taking it any further unless I can be pretty sure that there would be customers for the finished product.... If total demand amongst you idle(r) lot for such speed controllers is going to be like one a year then there's the Nigel's speed controller already out there which can either be diy'ed or built up for you by someone like myself:)

Arkless Electronics
18-08-2016, 18:59
Some more stuff coming to mind on this.... The Nigel's speed controller looks to me to be capable of something like 50W output! I can't see any of these TT's needing anything like this but if anyone has figures for max power consumption of big idler drive TT's that could be interesting.

I had a quick look at the prices of well known commercially available controllers such as Loricraft for the Garrard and they make my speculative one look very reasonable:D Also from what I said earlier about parts costs etc I hope people can see that if they are waiting for a £200 speed controller to become available then they are going to have a long wait... unless the Chinese start making them:eek:

Wakefield Turntables
18-08-2016, 19:36
There is a project over in Europe http://mate-labs.de/magicquartz/ that you might want to look at.

Cristobal
18-08-2016, 22:24
I've something similar for my 301 and it made the world of difference, perhaps your Lenco is so superb it dosen't need a speed controller. :rolleyes:

World of difference in speed accuracy or in sound quality?

Cristobal
18-08-2016, 23:13
There is a project over in Europe http://mate-labs.de/magicquartz/ that you might want to look at.

<<I aim to keep the price of the kit similar to a cheap true-sine car power inverter, which can be obtained for around 80-100 Euros.<<

Good news indeed...:)

Barry
19-08-2016, 08:42
Some more stuff coming to mind on this.... The Nigel's speed controller looks to me to be capable of something like 50W output! I can't see any of these TT's needing anything like this but if anyone has figures for max power consumption of big idler drive TT's that could be interesting.

I had a quick look at the prices of well known commercially available controllers such as Loricraft for the Garrard and they make my speculative one look very reasonable:D Also from what I said earlier about parts costs etc I hope people can see that if they are waiting for a £200 speed controller to become available then they are going to have a long wait... unless the Chinese start making them:eek:

What about this: http://mate-labs.de/magicquartz/ ? Admittedly the case looks cheap and cheerful, but at €80 -100, no-one is going to complain! Sadly however I don't really want to go fitting an RPM sensor to any of my Thorens decks.

Wakefield Turntables
19-08-2016, 11:14
World of difference in speed accuracy or in sound quality?

Both. I've now got accuracy to within 1000th of 1%. Note pitch stability is excellent and a fantastically cohesive soundstage. I'll not be going back.

Arkless Electronics
19-08-2016, 11:37
There is a project over in Europe http://mate-labs.de/magicquartz/ that you might want to look at.

Cheap case, cheap parts, inadequate heatsink (or very low output power!) digital noise from the all digital frequency generation... and where's the power supply? I can see what I assume is the toroidal output transformer but not the power supply that powers the whole speed controller...

Arkless Electronics
19-08-2016, 11:39
I'll not be planning on doing any speed controllers then.... I take it that unless I can make them for less than the cost of the parts no one is interested.... Same old story...

Arkless Electronics
19-08-2016, 12:10
Just as a matter of interest.... how much did the few who were interested, until I said what the price would be, EXPECT it to be?

struth
19-08-2016, 12:32
I would have thought something like that done right to cost a fair bit. Dunno how much yours was gonna cost but probably the same again as the TT cost... £500 or thereabouts

Arkless Electronics
19-08-2016, 13:14
I would have thought something like that done right to cost a fair bit. Dunno how much yours was gonna cost but probably the same again as the TT cost... £500 or thereabouts

I gave the expected cost as £600 ish so yup spot on.

I guess folks are somehow expecting things that are very niche products, made by hand, one at a time, to be comparable in price with something made in China, on a production line, using shite components, and at the rate of 10,000 a day....

Here is a real life example. I can buy a 200WPC power amplifier, brand new and with 12 month guarantee, from one of my suppliers (it's a PA amp not hi fi). The supplier has made his profit, it has been imported from China and the manufacturer has made his profit too. How much for? £67
I have just priced up the cost of JUST the mains transformer for an amplifier such as this, to me, when buying just one transformer in the UK.... £54
That's trade price and before I've made a penny of profit on it....
It's getting to the ridiculous point where it may make economic sense to buy brand new gear from China in order to strip it for parts :eek:

Do people think on the lines of "I can buy a GL75 for £50 so I expect the psu to be not much more than that"... I haven't a clue, but it doesn't work like that!! I get calls regularly from local people with, well here's a real example from two days ago... a Ferguson music centre they want repairing... they seem to think that because the music centre is worth maybe a tenner then the cost of repairing it is no more than that:stalks:
Another example is '70's or 80's integrated amps.... it will almost always cost more than the amp is worth to repair it... My hourly rate doesn't miraculously go down from £30 an hour to £3 an hour because the amp I'm working on is only worth £40 and not £1K!

Firebottle
19-08-2016, 14:14
Unfortunately Jez that's the way of the world now.
I used to work for Avery Berkel, that's the Avery weighing company founded decades ago.

Their product line covered equipment capable of weighing anything, from trucks (weighbridges) plus all the paraphernalia to test and certify 60 tonne weighbridges, down to pharmaceutical balances that could weigh to fractional milligram accuracy, plus sophisticated intrinsically safe equipment for offshore and hazardous area environments. The latter area was where I worked in design.
About 15 years ago the cheaper end of the market had to be farmed out to Chinese production just to stay competitive in the market place.

Anyone who doesn't think the volume production environment isn't on a global scale is deluded.

:)

walpurgis
19-08-2016, 14:37
I used to work for Avery Berkel, that's the Avery weighing company founded decades ago.

I used to work for Avery too. A couple of generations ago, when they had a place in Ruislip.

Amongst other things, I was making parts for weighing hoppers that feed conveyor packing. They regarded me as the balance spring guru :).

Arkless Electronics
19-08-2016, 14:43
Unfortunately Jez that's the way of the world now.
I used to work for Avery Berkel, that's the Avery weighing company founded decades ago.

Their product line covered equipment capable of weighing anything, from trucks (weighbridges) plus all the paraphernalia to test and certify 60 tonne weighbridges, down to pharmaceutical balances that could weigh to fractional milligram accuracy, plus sophisticated intrinsically safe equipment for offshore and hazardous area environments. The latter area was where I worked in design.
About 15 years ago the cheaper end of the market had to be farmed out to Chinese production just to stay competitive in the market place.

Anyone who doesn't think the volume production environment isn't on a global scale is deluded.

:)

Indeed so Alan. The issue though comes when people think such economies of scale and globalisation that allow eg a DVD player to be bought in Tesco's for only £25 also apply to equipment made by hand, to order, in the UK and built using high quality parts of Europe/USA/Japan manufacture and supplied by UK distributors in single quantities!

In the case of the TT PSU Parts are roughly £200, trade, to me, before I've made a penny on it... It would take about two days to make each one. £600 selling price is I think very reasonable... I should be asking more like £1K based on normal business models!

struth
19-08-2016, 14:57
Make one a bit cheaper to get it out there. If there is a demand and its good then orders will come.

Arkless Electronics
19-08-2016, 15:25
Make one a bit cheaper to get it out there. If there is a demand and its good then orders will come.

Never in a million years! £600 is cheap...very cheap in fact and if people don't want to pay that much for one then it ain't going to happen.

There are probably no more than a hundred or so users of souped up, modified Lenco GL75 in the UK and only a proportion of those will be interested anyway.
If there were the demand for one in every home, as with a DVD player, then they would already be mass produced in China by the million and available for maybe £50. But there isn't enough demand for them to be made in anything other than one-off quantities and so that's what they cost... Simples.
You could always buy one from loricraft... a snip at £1000 for the budget one and £2600 for the next one up... and mines probably better!

Arkless Electronics
19-08-2016, 16:19
Just to illustrate what's involved in such a beast....

1/ Mono gain clone power amp of good quality and about 30W. Heatsink needed.
2/ Power supply for the above.
3/ Output transformer to take the 50Hz (+/- 10% or so) from the power amp up to 230V
4/ Precision sine wave generator to make the accurate and highly stable 50Hz "mains" waveform, with adjustment available for fine speed control.
5/ Filters for the above (if required) to lower waveform distortion further.
6/ Controls for output voltage and frequency.
7/ Aux power supply for the sine wave generator and filters.
8/ In some units, my speculative one included, regulation circuitry to ensure 230V out even as the mains input varies from say 220 - 260V at different times of day etc
9/ Protection circuitry for over temp and overload.
10/ About £60+ for the casework if it has to "look the part".

So folks, it may be "just a power supply/TT speed controller" but I trust people can see what's involved and why it would cost so much.... there is actually more to it than the average power amp!;)

Jimbo
19-08-2016, 17:34
Interesting this chat about TT speed controllers as I have both a Lenco GL75 and VPI turntable which could both accommodate speed correction. I sometimes think why did VPI not make the PSU more accurately control speed as you pay enough F&@&£ money for them.

VPI does indeed make a speed controller which is based on a digital system but it is very expensive £1500 or so depending on how much exchange rate is so that would substantiate your pricing Jez, however they are about to launch an Analogue speed controller in 3 different models obviously topping out at mega bucks.

Now Phoenix Engineering do a nice speed controller which I believe will work with both the Lenco and VPI TT and is about £380 wih an optional tachometer at a few more hundred quid.

So taking into consideration these items I think £500-£600 is about right for a controller. This is still expensive for quite a few folk myself included so it would be a very considered purchase.

Arkless Electronics
19-08-2016, 18:05
Interesting this chat about TT speed controllers as I have both a Lenco GL75 and VPI turntable which could both accommodate speed correction. I sometimes think why did VPI not make the PSU more accurately control speed as you pay enough F&@&£ money for them.

VPI does indeed make a speed controller which is based on a digital system but it is very expensive £1500 or so depending on how much exchange rate is so that would substantiate your pricing Jez, however they are about to launch an Analogue speed controller in 3 different models obviously topping out at mega bucks.

Now Phoenix Engineering do a nice speed controller which I believe will work with both the Lenco and VPI TT and is about £380 wih an optional tachometer at a few more hundred quid.

So taking into consideration these items I think £500-£600 is about right for a controller. This is still expensive for quite a few folk myself included so it would be a very considered purchase.

A guess a considered purchase is indeed what it would be... If one has got hold of a TT to do up for say £60 then they may think twice about spending that much on a speed controller. I hope I have illustrated what's involved and why it comes out at that sort of money though;)

As I have attempted to show in a few threads, the cost of parts alone to a one man band like myself is huge! The transformer I mentioned earlier for example, in the context of a mass produced PA amp made in China..... I said it would cost me about £55 for just the TX. A company such as Rega would be buying their TX's direct from the manufacturer and in quantities of say 1000 at a time. They would end up paying maybe £15-20 each for them. The PA amp would use locally made TX from China (and probably of lowish quality) in quantities of say 20,000 an order and bought in at maybe £5 a go!

It is only by having low overheads, no distributor, no dealers and selling direct that the likes of myself can be anywhere near competitive on price... especially when it may take me two days labour to make something completely by hand which would be made in two hours on a semi automated production line.

Jimbo
19-08-2016, 18:29
A guess a considered purchase is indeed what it would be... If one has got hold of a TT to do up for say £60 then they may think twice about spending that much on a speed controller. I hope I have illustrated what's involved and why it comes out at that sort of money though;)

As I have attempted to show in a few threads, the cost of parts alone to a one man band like myself is huge! The transformer I mentioned earlier for example, in the context of a mass produced PA amp made in China..... I said it would cost me about £55 for just the TX. A company such as Rega would be buying their TX's direct from the manufacturer and in quantities of say 1000 at a time. They would end up paying maybe £15-20 each for them. The PA amp would use locally made TX from China (and probably of lowish quality) in quantities of say 20,000 an order and bought in at maybe £5 a go!

It is only by having low overheads, no distributor, no dealers and selling direct that the likes of myself can be anywhere near competitive on price... especially when it may take me two days labour to make something completely by hand which would be made in two hours on a semi automated production line.

Completely understand and agree with your thoughts on this subject Jez.

brian2957
19-08-2016, 19:01
Completely understand and agree with your thoughts on this subject Jez.

+1 I had no idea what goes into making one of these things . At least I now know what to aim for if I decide to go down this road .

Wakefield Turntables
19-08-2016, 19:34
I prefer to spend my money in the UK and support small businesses in a likewise manor. I could have made this speed controller myself but just look at what I'm getting. I'm getting a piece of kit professionally made which will last years, I can always sell it and get some money back. A lot of my kit has been made by people on this very forum. Paul @ RFC made and designed my speaker cabs & external XO's, Nick @ Longdog audio completely repimped my Croft preamp and Sondex poweramp, Simon made my Paradise phonostage, Speedy steve has made tonearm boards and counter weights for my tonearms and now Jez is doing the speed controller. I get a genuine kick from supporting these guys. You don't just spend money with them you also get to make friends and in some instances have access to some of the best brains in the business. Yeah £500 for a speed controller is a lot of money, but so is spending £500 on a shitty Sky package where you only use a few channels. :)

Jerseymark
20-08-2016, 07:49
Hi Jez, It is a shame this thread was not posted earlier, I have been looking for a good speed controller which I could use on my Garrard and Lenco turntables.

I have unfortunately ordered the Phoenix controller now and have been waiting for it to arrive for over two months. I previously even purchased two boards from Nigel for his speed controller but did not feel confident enough to build it myself.

If the Phoenix controller does not arrive shortly I will contact you.
Regards
Mark

Marco
20-08-2016, 08:23
I prefer to spend my money in the UK and support small businesses in a likewise manor. I could have made this speed controller myself but just look at what I'm getting. I'm getting a piece of kit professionally made which will last years, I can always sell it and get some money back. A lot of my kit has been made by people on this very forum. Paul @ RFC made and designed my speaker cabs & external XO's, Nick @ Longdog audio completely repimped my Croft preamp and Sondex poweramp, Simon made my Paradise phonostage, Speedy steve has made tonearm boards and counter weights for my tonearms and now Jez is doing the speed controller. I get a genuine kick from supporting these guys. You don't just spend money with them you also get to make friends and in some instances have access to some of the best brains in the business. Yeah £500 for a speed controller is a lot of money, but so is spending £500 on a shitty Sky package where you only use a few channels. :)

Spot on! :exactly:

Marco.

Arkless Electronics
20-08-2016, 14:17
Hi Jez, It is a shame this thread was not posted earlier, I have been looking for a good speed controller which I could use on my Garrard and Lenco turntables.

I have unfortunately ordered the Phoenix controller now and have been waiting for it to arrive for over two months. I previously even purchased two boards from Nigel for his speed controller but did not feel confident enough to build it myself.

If the Phoenix controller does not arrive shortly I will contact you.
Regards
Mark

No problem Mark;)

sq225917
20-08-2016, 18:38
The psu i use is supplied as pcb software and PIC only. It costs £50. Parts cost to populate the pcb add heatsink, psu transformers, usb socket, case work and sockets totals £400 and that's all cost. It's a dual mono, synthesised regenerator with pc interface and control over phase to 0.1 degree, frequency to 0.01hz and voltage toasting between 12 and 24v

So £600 for a built unit from Jez is very reasonable.

Wakefield Turntables
21-08-2016, 19:24
Well the journey continues. The Speed controller is being made and now I have my dream tonearm for the Lenco. I've been after one of these for a LONG.... time and finally one comes up at a reasonable price. Ladies, the one and only Alphason HR100S. This example is a little rough and will be immediately sent upto AO for a full fettle and maybe a silver rewire ;). I see that a counterweight is missing and also the tonearm cable. I have a Nordost TYR tonearm cable floating around so I will hopefully push this back into action.


17849

17850

17848

It's probably going to be mid-late september when this project is finally finished but we are getting to the finish line.

brian2957
21-08-2016, 19:46
Very nice Andrew . Is this a drop-in replacement or is there a little fettling required to the GL75 ?

Jimbo
21-08-2016, 19:52
Nice arm that Andy. Gimbal bearing titanium job if I am not mistaken?

Wakefield Turntables
22-08-2016, 07:14
Very nice Andrew . Is this a drop-in replacement or is there a little fettling required to the GL75 ?

I think it is, I always send new second hand purchases upto J7 for his full service and repairs. I'll have to look on lenco heaven to see if any work is needed on the deck to mount the arm.


Nice arm that Andy. Gimbal bearing titanium job if I am not mistaken?


If you say so!!!

brian2957
22-08-2016, 07:34
I think it is, I always send new second hand purchases upto J7 for his full service and repairs. I'll have to look on lenco heaven to see if any work is needed on the deck to mount the arm.




If you say so!!!

It'll be handy if it is a drop-in replacement for the GL75 arm. You're building up a rather nice turntable here and a valuable source of reference for GL75 modders :)

YNWaN
22-08-2016, 08:27
The arm tube is titanium, the rest of it is stainless steel.


100% Analogue

paulf-2007
22-08-2016, 12:21
My two penneth on the 401 v lenco subject. Assuming an arm change on the lenco to make a more level playing field as the 401 can have pretty much any arm. From experience to equal the 401 the lenco requires a lot of money thrown at it. The ptp plate is a big improvement, the speed change on the lenco is a bit Heath Robinson so Nigel's speed controller is very useful if you want to play 45 and/or 78, I don't believe it makes any difference to sound quality. The 401's speed change is reassuringly solid. I have owned both a 401 and lenco ptp, both used with an audiomods arm they sounded very much the same but the lenco with speed controller cost more. The lenco is more fun for the diyer.

Wakefield Turntables
22-08-2016, 14:16
My two penneth on the 401 v lenco subject. Assuming an arm change on the lenco to make a more level playing field as the 401 can have pretty much any arm. From experience to equal the 401 the lenco requires a lot of money thrown at it. The ptp plate is a big improvement, the speed change on the lenco is a bit Heath Robinson so Nigel's speed controller is very useful if you want to play 45 and/or 78, I don't believe it makes any difference to sound quality. The 401's speed change is reassuringly solid. I have owned both a 401 and lenco ptp, both used with an audiomods arm they sounded very much the same but the lenco with speed controller cost more. The lenco is more fun for the diyer.

I agree with you on the speed change on the Lenco, it's quite Nobel to say the least and overly complex, too many parts which can transmit vibration into the chassis and platter. I'm not really looking to try and make a 401 "killer" I have a 301 which will trounce most 401's;). I intend to do the PTP route at some point, probably next years project. I'm surprised you think that the speed controller adds nothing to the Lenco, I usually find note pitch improves and soundstage becomes more cohesive. The audiomods arm is a very good arm and I nearly bought one two weeks ago!!!! The Alphason is a straight drop in whilst the audiomods spindle to tonearm yoke apex distance is not correct by several mm's and can only be accompany with major top plate amputation or specific cut out into a plinth or separate tonearm pod. I think you have hit upon the essence of this lenco journey, it's DIY fun.

Arkless Electronics
22-08-2016, 14:37
I've wondered about the possibility of making a GL75 belt drive..... To the outer platter.

Cristobal
22-08-2016, 16:06
I've wondered about the possibility of making a GL75 belt drive...

Sacrilege! :eek::rolleyes: Well, at least it is not really in the Lenco spirit... But you can take the motor out of the plinth and use the idler wheel in the "rim drive" mode. That is what I do and I like it, though it is no oil painting.

Arkless Electronics
22-08-2016, 16:31
Sacrilege! :eek::rolleyes: Well, at least it is not really in the Lenco spirit... But you can take the motor out of the plinth and use the idler wheel in the "rim drive" mode. That is what I do and I like it, though it is no oil painting.

Interesting bit of DIY!

karma67
22-08-2016, 16:46
Well the journey continues. The Speed controller is being made and now I have my dream tonearm for the Lenco. I've been after one of these for a LONG.... time and finally one comes up at a reasonable price. Ladies, the one and only Alphason HR100S. This example is a little rough and will be immediately sent upto AO for a full fettle and maybe a silver rewire ;). I see that a counterweight is missing and also the tonearm cable. I have a Nordost TYR tonearm cable floating around so I will hopefully push this back into action.


17849

17850

17848

It's probably going to be mid-late september when this project is finally finished but we are getting to the finish line.

ah i was watching that one,it still fetched big money despite the missing bits,let me know if you need any info on the bias weight size or the mounting collar :)

Wakefield Turntables
22-08-2016, 17:55
You now have a PM!

Wakefield Turntables
24-08-2016, 20:03
The alphason arrived today. Less grubby than in the pictures. I've spent this evening polishing the tonearm, greasing the tonearm raise mechanism and replacing some material that had worn off where the tonearm sits. The counterweight was filthy so this has been cleaned and I've covered up a few scratches in the tonearm. This is an early example No 1293 I think. I'm missiing a mounting collar so I shall have to fabricate one. I also need a anti-bias weight. This will be going upto J7 for a re-wire, service and replacement anti-bias weight. Jez no has all the bits for the Speed controller apart from knobs and case. Things are slowly getting there! I don't think I have much more to do apart from wait for all the bits to arrive and then enjoy the deck.

Wakefield Turntables
27-08-2016, 19:55
So near yet so far.... :wah:

A small update tonight on the Lenco project. I finally managed to get a bit of time together to bodge a quick arm mount for the Alphason. I mounted my old Shure M55E and got a side of vinyl playing, so the project finally produces it's first notes. Now I'll have to dismantle. The tonearm cable and Alphason are going to J7 @ Audio-origami next week and then it's a waiting for Speedy Steve to get back in contact. I need a new mounting collar and I might get some more counter weights made for the Alphason whilst I'm at it. The project will be finished when these several pieces of work have been completed and then it's just a matter of listen, enjoy and then plan some more upgrades! :doh: The speed controller is still being made.

17893

It's probably going to be a whole new plinth in 2017 and then maybe the PTP!

walpurgis
27-08-2016, 19:58
I have a feeling that the Alphason will complement the Lenco very nicely Andy.

I'll be interested to see how this all works out for you.

Wakefield Turntables
29-08-2016, 08:45
I have a feeling that the Alphason will complement the Lenco very nicely Andy.

I'll be interested to see how this all works out for you.

Thanks, I'll keep you posted. The Alphason is now singing nicely. I managed to find a fault on the Nordost TYR tonearm cable my "bodged" tonearm mount sufficed to check to see if the tonearm and cable worked. I'm off to Jersey in a few days so the projects going to have to wait until then. Suffice to say i now have a deck which can play vinyl, but not very well!

Wakefield Turntables
29-08-2016, 20:06
I think I might be able to mod an old Lenco tonearm mount to get the alphason to work on the GL75. I've ordered my case from China for the speed controller. I now need to find some knobs that I like (oo-er).

Arkless Electronics
29-08-2016, 20:17
I've found the bottom cover for my GL75 and a quick look at the deck itself reveals that the transit screws need releasing:eek: No wonder I thought it sounded really shite when I briefly tried it 20 years ago.... It will live:eyebrows:

struth
29-08-2016, 20:18
not releasing; removing lol... they can rattle a bit

brian2957
29-08-2016, 20:20
Hah ! I did that too , but it didn't take me twenty years to spot my mistake . Andrew spotted it for me ( very quickly ) :D

Arkless Electronics
29-08-2016, 20:26
Hah ! I did that too , but it didn't take me twenty years to spot my mistake . Andrew spotted it for me ( very quickly ) :D

I haven't looked at it since! With a unipivot arm on it it more resembled a washing machine than a TT...

Arkless Electronics
29-08-2016, 20:28
I haven't looked at it since! With a unipivot arm on it it more resembled a washing machine than a TT...

I presume they are NOT meant to be sticking out proud of the top plate by maybe 5mm but screwed in?

brian2957
29-08-2016, 20:31
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and mine is a thing of beauty :D

As far as I know totally removed when the turntable is in use .

Arkless Electronics
29-08-2016, 20:33
I'll see if I can download a manual... RTFM!

walpurgis
29-08-2016, 20:39
Have a look on Lenco Heaven Jez. Loads of info and diagrams etc.

Arkless Electronics
29-08-2016, 20:46
Got one! It says to turn screws "until motor is freely floating"... and no more... from what I recall it was freely floating but it was a long time ago. It is not in reach right now and I'm off out for a while so will have to leave it till later/tomorrow to drag it from behind dead pushbile and some amps....

montesquieu
29-08-2016, 21:27
I've found the bottom cover for my GL75 and a quick look at the deck itself reveals that the transit screws need releasing:eek: No wonder I thought it sounded really shite when I briefly tried it 20 years ago.... It will live:eyebrows:

This gets me every time I bring a Lenco home ... nothing worse than forgetting all about the transit screws ....

Wakefield Turntables
29-08-2016, 21:28
Just remove them and put them somewhere safe. They really make the deck rattle.

Wakefield Turntables
31-08-2016, 18:59
This project is now going silent for a few weeks. When I resume I should have a fully running rig. I'm now off for a while. BYE. ;)

Arkless Electronics
31-08-2016, 19:26
Well mines now dragged out and I've had a better look at it. The transit screws were in the correct position and the motor freely sprung as it was so that wasn't the trouble.... The main bearing appeared dry though so I have greased it with some molybdenum disulphide grease and done all the linkages as well. I left the motor alone as it's likely to have sintered bearings. New longer mains cable fitted also.
A Linn arm has been found as well and I believe these fit straight on....

The main issue now is that although I found a bag with loads of Lenco bits in it (original arm, 3 headshells, allsorts) there is a suspension spring missing:doh: I feel a bodge coming on:eyebrows:

The original plinth etc seems crap anyway. There appears to be no way of levelling it for any other weight arm than the original fitment and the entire plinth and deck merely rest on 4 springs on a base made of hardboard with loads of holes drilled in it!

Andy your speed controller is done to the point where I can try it uncased with my GL75 when I've bodged some sort of "plinth" to get things going so that will be interesting!

Any way I have an urgent appointment with some real ale (shove yer "craft beer":lol:) and a couple of mates so the next instalment will have to wait for now...

walpurgis
31-08-2016, 19:52
It's not a grease main bearing Jez. It needs to run in oil. Nothing too thin though.


(Real ale? Yuk! :spew:) :D

Wakefield Turntables
31-08-2016, 20:06
Well mines now dragged out and I've had a better look at it. The transit screws were in the correct position and the motor freely sprung as it was so that wasn't the trouble.... The main bearing appeared dry though so I have greased it with some molybdenum disulphide grease and done all the linkages as well. I left the motor alone as it's likely to have sintered bearings. New longer mains cable fitted also.
A Linn arm has been found as well and I believe these fit straight on....

The main issue now is that although I found a bag with loads of Lenco bits in it (original arm, 3 headshells, allsorts) there is a suspension spring missing:doh: I feel a bodge coming on:eyebrows:

The original plinth etc seems crap anyway. There appears to be no way of levelling it for any other weight arm than the original fitment and the entire plinth and deck merely rest on 4 springs on a base made of hardboard with loads of holes drilled in it!

Andy your speed controller is done to the point where I can try it uncased with my GL75 when I've bodged some sort of "plinth" to get things going so that will be interesting!

Any way I have an urgent appointment with some real ale (shove yer "craft beer":lol:) and a couple of mates so the next instalment will have to wait for now...

Im off on holiday and cant do anything now until the tonearm collar arrives. I've still not decided on the knobs for the speed controller case. The deck will need to be properly setup when I get the various bits. There is even some merit in running the deck at 110V there seems to be a very informative post over on Lenco Heaven where some guys analysed the plinth, bearing, platter and just about everything else for vibration levels bewteen 110 and 240V and it appear the 110V route is the way ahead if your trying to minimise vibration.

Arkless Electronics
01-09-2016, 18:02
It's not a grease main bearing Jez. It needs to run in oil. Nothing too thin though.


(Real ale? Yuk! :spew:) :D

It is now :D It seems to run very freely and smoothly with the grease and a tiny bit of play has been taken up . Obviously I haven't been able to hear it yet so if I have any issues I'll revert to oil.

You don't drink that foul lager stuff do you?:eek:

walpurgis
01-09-2016, 18:29
You don't drink that foul lager stuff do you?:eek:

Of course. Real ale is only fit for washing out paintbrushes and creosoting fences. :lol:

Arkless Electronics
01-09-2016, 18:38
I like to taste something beyond supercooled CO2 in my pint:D

Wakefield Turntables
09-09-2016, 20:11
Back from Jersey and things have been a bit mixed. So, the arm board is still being fabricated after numerous emails and material changes. I get a message from China saying things are delayed with the speed controller case (wait till you see it) and the speed controller is now all but finished. I have a new bearing modification to try out and I manage to find a bias weight for the Alphason. Ho-Hum!

brian2957
09-09-2016, 20:39
This is also worth considering Andy http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=22458.0 I'm listening as I write this . Improvements in all areas IMO . Well worth £40 :)

walpurgis
09-09-2016, 20:56
I made my own from a large steel washer. Funny thing is, I thought of this before seeing that other people do it too. Great minds, I suppose! :D

brian2957
09-09-2016, 21:39
Well you obviously saw the potential first Geoff :D

Wakefield Turntables
09-09-2016, 21:47
This is also worth considering Andy http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=22458.0 I'm listening as I write this . Improvements in all areas IMO . Well worth £40 :)

I've seen this and decided against it :eek: as I think the money is going towards a PTP kit. I think the PTP negates the need for a bearing mount. Jolly (the guy who makes them) does do a nice bearing that I've heard nice things about. I want to get the Lenco properly set up before I start modding.

brian2957
09-09-2016, 22:08
Yes I believe that's correct Andy , you won't need the bearing clamp if you go down this road .

Wakefield Turntables
16-09-2016, 20:12
I should hopefully have a running rig tomorrow. The mounting collar and bias weight are at work. Mounting a cart should be quite easy, probably go with the old Shure and save some of the higher end carts I own. Probably just concentrate on getting all the basic sorted out over the weekend and then actually start optimising the deck. I'd like a couple of weeks getting to know the "house" sound of this deck before we start doing things. :eyebrows:

brian2957
16-09-2016, 20:21
Looking forward to this Andrew . I've been experimenting with different lubricants for the center bearing over the last few weeks . Today I tried Lithium grease and I'm very pleased with the result .

Wakefield Turntables
17-09-2016, 08:18
Brian, you'll have to let me know WHAT you hear when you do these small tweaks. I'm in the process of producing Frankensteinbearing. This is a bearing which will act as a test bed for all the little mods suggested on Lencoheaven and it shall be putted against a complete stock standard bearing. Imagine trying to do that on a garrard 301.:lol: I'm also going down the stacked platter route.

brian2957
17-09-2016, 10:27
OK I'll bite Andrew . What on earth is a Frankenstein bearing :lol:

Wakefield Turntables
17-09-2016, 18:27
Frankenstein Bearing - It's a standard bearing with a mash up of all the "bits" that can be upgraded. So, new thrust plate, new spindle, new ball bearing, different oil/grease. Your already doing this yourself with the new ball bearing and grease that our trying out on your own bearing!!!!!! It's a cheap way of assessing if any of these tweaks actually work instead of paying several hundred Euro's to our European budies for bearing that have very little if any positive feedback. I've seen numerous bearings that have been advertised over on Lenco Heaven with some being more dubious than others. I'm probably going to go down the stacked platter route with a PTP kit, maybe even a new bearing from Jolly or the guy that produces the PTP plates. The mounting collar for the Alphason is still MIA which means another week without the Lenco running. :steam:

Jimbo
17-09-2016, 18:44
I am going to try Brian's ceramic bearing when I get round to sorting it. I know from experience how different bearing materials can have a marked difference on audibly transmitted vibration.

Wakefield Turntables
17-09-2016, 19:07
I've been looking into the stacked platter idea and it does make sense. You have to purchase a bearing spindle extension and an additional heavy platter. The platters and the bearing spindle can be additionally dampened. The idea is to minimise vibration getting into the cart. I've been banging on for years that the Lenco chasis is the biggest weak point of the Lenco deck and as such I think the PTP idea which negates the need for a chasis is the best idea that I've seen. It also completely minimises and removes any excessive parts which are needed. This is an excellent way of thinking and fits into my ethos of how I want to tweek and design my own Lenco hybrid. I've now gone beyond giving two shits about what anyone thinks with regards how my decks look or the logic of their composition ;). The Lenco enables me to tweek and experiment pretty much to my hearts content because they are so cheap.

brian2957
17-09-2016, 20:15
Your money your choices Andrew and I'm sure you will turn out something pretty special . I have now tries several lubricants with the GL75 centre bearing . Firstly, though , I noticed that the new ceramic bearing made a difference in the areas of musicality and timing . The first lubricant I used was a 90% to 10% mixture of car engine oil and STP oil treatment . I was pretty happy with this , however , I decided to do a little experimentation . I then tried Audio Origami turntable bearing oil . Again a different presentation , the sound was thinner , but pretty good in the midrange . Soundstage was very good with this oil . Next , I tried fully synthetic engine oil which resulted in a fuller sound , although things were now slightly muffled but still enjoyable . Lastly , I purchased some Lithium grease . TBH I thought that the '' drag '' from the much thicker grease would have caused some problems , however , to my surprise the platter seemed to spin much more freely and more importantly the bearing was quieter than any of the oil mixtures which I had previously used . The result has been a very audible drop in turntable noise and vibration . Music is now clearer , more natural ,and the soundstage is bigger . The soundstage is also more stable and focused than when using the different oils . I'm listening as I write this and I'm really enjoying what I'm hearing . I may experiment some more later , but for now I'm just enjoying this fantastic turntable :)
I look forward to your findings Andrew , even though we're going down different roads :)

Jimbo
17-09-2016, 20:31
Your money your choices Andrew and I'm sure you will turn out something pretty special . I have now tries several lubricants with the GL75 centre bearing . Firstly, though , I noticed that the new ceramic bearing made a difference in the areas of musicality and timing . The first lubricant I used was a 90% to 10% mixture of car engine oil and STP oil treatment . I was pretty happy with this , however , I decided to do a little experimentation . I then tried Audio Origami turntable bearing oil . Again a different presentation , the sound was thinner , but pretty good in the midrange . Soundstage was very good with this oil . Next , I tried fully synthetic engine oil which resulted in a fuller sound , although things were now slightly muffled but still enjoyable . Lastly , I purchased some Lithium grease . TBH I thought that the '' drag '' from the much thicker grease would have caused some problems , however , to my surprise the platter seemed to spin much more freely and more importantly the bearing was quieter than any of the oil mixtures which I had previously used . The result has been a very audible drop in turntable noise and vibration . Music is now clearer , more natural ,and the soundstage is bigger . The soundstage is also more stable and focused than when using the different oils . I'm listening as I write this and I'm really enjoying what I'm hearing . I may experiment some more later , but for now I'm just enjoying this fantastic turntable :)
I look forward to your findings Andrew , even though we're going down different roads :)

I expect the noise floor dropped slightly as well Brian? Blacker background?

brian2957
17-09-2016, 20:37
I expect the noise floor dropped slightly as well Brian? Blacker background?

Ah! I meant to say something of that nature too James , but couldn't quite find the words . Thank you :)

It's been a long day ;)

Wakefield Turntables
18-09-2016, 16:59
Your money your choices Andrew and I'm sure you will turn out something pretty special . I have now tries several lubricants with the GL75 centre bearing . Firstly, though , I noticed that the new ceramic bearing made a difference in the areas of musicality and timing . The first lubricant I used was a 90% to 10% mixture of car engine oil and STP oil treatment . I was pretty happy with this , however , I decided to do a little experimentation . I then tried Audio Origami turntable bearing oil . Again a different presentation , the sound was thinner , but pretty good in the midrange . Soundstage was very good with this oil . Next , I tried fully synthetic engine oil which resulted in a fuller sound , although things were now slightly muffled but still enjoyable . Lastly , I purchased some Lithium grease . TBH I thought that the '' drag '' from the much thicker grease would have caused some problems , however , to my surprise the platter seemed to spin much more freely and more importantly the bearing was quieter than any of the oil mixtures which I had previously used . The result has been a very audible drop in turntable noise and vibration . Music is now clearer , more natural ,and the soundstage is bigger . The soundstage is also more stable and focused than when using the different oils . I'm listening as I write this and I'm really enjoying what I'm hearing . I may experiment some more later , but for now I'm just enjoying this fantastic turntable :)
I look forward to your findings Andrew , even though we're going down different roads :)

Thats an excellent write up. This is the sort of info that's really needed by us Lenco modders when decide what modifications are needed to our decks. Did you give the spindle and ball bearing a clean down every time you tried something new?

Wakefield Turntables
18-09-2016, 17:17
Well with no mounting collar to play with I decided to start the next few little mods. First up is the stacked platter mod. This is simply two platters stacked on top of each other. Care must be taken that the platters are 100% in contact with each other and that they bearing rotates freely. It's also wise to tap the top platter to see if any "wobble" between the platters exists. In this instance I'm lucky and the platters fit very nicely together and the bearing spins very freely. This modification needs a special spindle extender which can be ordered from Lenco Heaven. Mine's now in the post.

18040

Another bearing. :doh: Well this is my second bearing strip and I can now do these in my sleep. Brian (many thanks mate) sent me a ceraminc ball bearing which shall replace the standard thingy that Lenco supply. Brian's bearing got cleaned with IPA, then was ultrasonically cleaned. I've soaked it in 3-1 oil for the last 24 hours.

The birth of Frankensteinbearing!

18041

Old v New

18043

The old components of the bearing stripped out. The old ball bearing has been bagged for safe keeping. The felt washer has been soaked for 24hours. The circlip has been cleaned as has the thrust plate support disc, this time, ultrasonically cleaned, cleaned with Brillo and then finished with IPA. The thrust plate is bent and buggered so a new upgrade has been ordered. I've kept the original thrust plate (just in case).

Shiny!

18044

The external appearence is important. This has been cleaned and polished. All screws ultrasonically cleaned and polished. The shaft of the bearing has been flushed and cleaned with IPA. As always, the bearing spindle has been cleaned with brillo, cleaned off with IPA, and then ultrasonically cleaned. The bearing is about 90& complete and now just waiting for the thrust plate and spindle extender.

The workshop. Speaks for itself really.

18042

Franksensteinbearing will form the test bed of for cheap mods which have been recommended on Lenco Heaven. It shall be pitted against a vanilla bearing. The quest continues.

brian2957
18-09-2016, 17:56
Thats an excellent write up. This is the sort of info that's really needed by us Lenco modders when decide what modifications are needed to our decks. Did you give the spindle and ball bearing a clean down every time you tried something new?

Yes I gave them a thorough clean Andrew , although not as thoroughly as you it seems :) I was a vehicle mechanic in a past life and have a fair idea how to deal with this type bearing .

Got a link to the new thrust plate please Andrew ?

I will be watching this thread with interest . Thanks for keeping us up to date with your excellent work .

Wakefield Turntables
18-09-2016, 18:04
Got a link to the new thrust plate please Andrew ?

I've emailed Jolyon (a Lenco Heaven member) who produces a new bearing for £140. I also managed to find this http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=12308.0 I think he sells them in packs of two, I'm happy to split the cost if you fancy?

brian2957
18-09-2016, 18:10
Double post .

brian2957
18-09-2016, 18:14
I've emailed Jolyon (a Lenco Heaven member) who produces a new bearing for £140. I also managed to find this http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=12308.0 I think he sells them in packs of two, I'm happy to split the cost if you fancy?

Happy to do that Andrew .

I bought the bearing clamp from Jolyon . It's a very nice piece of work and he is very good to deal with .

I'm also thinking about one of these http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=11628.0 although maybe a bit steep at 54 Euros .

Wakefield Turntables
18-09-2016, 19:01
Happy to do that Andrew .

I bought the bearing clamp from Jolyon . It's a very nice piece of work and he is very good to deal with .

I'm also thinking about one of these http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=11628.0 although maybe a bit steep at 54 Euros .

Well 54 euros is quite expensive but I wonder if it's needed? I mean the old idler wheel in your deck is probably approaching 40 years old and the one in my Garrard is >50years old, they both probably work really well. But, a new idler has less wear and probably is probably even thickness which is something that worries me about my Lenco. Some members over on LH report reduced vibration into the platter, but how can they tell? Some report that the deck starts quicker and seems to be quiter, but, we have no idea of their deck's construction. It looks like the new idler wheels do make an improvement but again I think I would like to "know" the house sound of my Lenco before I start spending £54 on a new idler wheel. Just out of interest have you seen an other members making similar products?

walpurgis
18-09-2016, 19:08
I have ideas for making idler wheels. I may have a bash over the winter.

Quite a few other items in mind too.

Marra
18-09-2016, 19:37
I have ideas for making idler wheels. I may have a bash over the winter.

Quite a few other items in mind too.

This sounds interesting.Curious as to what the other items might be.

walpurgis
18-09-2016, 19:41
This sounds interesting.Curious as to what the other items might be.

Other Lenco parts, arm mounting plates and alternatives to 'V' blocks. Maybe Mission 774 arm bits. And I'm casting an eye over a Connoisseur BD1 to see if I can upgrade it.

brian2957
18-09-2016, 19:53
Well 54 euros is quite expensive but I wonder if it's needed? I mean the old idler wheel in your deck is probably approaching 40 years old and the one in my Garrard is >50years old, they both probably work really well. But, a new idler has less wear and probably is probably even thickness which is something that worries me about my Lenco. Some members over on LH report reduced vibration into the platter, but how can they tell? Some report that the deck starts quicker and seems to be quiter, but, we have no idea of their deck's construction. It looks like the new idler wheels do make an improvement but again I think I would like to "know" the house sound of my Lenco before I start spending £54 on a new idler wheel. Just out of interest have you seen an other members making similar products?

Well mines seems to be running very nicely at the moment so I'm not sure if this new idler wheel will improve on the old one . I suppose the only way to find out is to buy and try the new one .
I've never seen any other members making anything like this so I guess he has a bit of a monopoly .

brian2957
18-09-2016, 19:55
I have ideas for making idler wheels. I may have a bash over the winter.

Quite a few other items in mind too.

I would be interested in this too Geoff .

walpurgis
18-09-2016, 20:11
I see new idler wheels for sale with 'O' rings edges. I don't like that idea, the area of contact with the tapered motor shaft is too wide for my liking. I know there are other options, but may try something a little different.

I converted one of my plastic spare idlers to 'O' ring edge and it works, but I think I'd like a better engineered alternative.

http://i65.tinypic.com/1zxv3tv.jpg