PDA

View Full Version : The 211s Have Landed - And Taken Off Again!!!



User211
26-05-2016, 12:37
Spent this last Monday morning driving the new Porsche 718 around the Porsche Experience tracks at Silverstone. Drove 4 different variants of the 718 selected from the pic below.

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Porsche%20Exp/IMG_20160523_084138231_HDR_zps1osm4ckj.jpg

It is good fun up there, and you can arrange to do what I did by phoning up Whittlebury Hall hotel (the one that does the Hi-Fi Show) as they do quite a good deal on a night’s stay and Porsche Experience in one. It is cheaper than you might think. My session was free (not the hotel stay, though), including breakfast and lunch, but hey, I am a customer.

On the way back I went past KevinF’s house and stopped in for a chat and a quick listen to his current Audio Note Tomei (http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/amps_integrated/tomei_01.shtml), driving his Audio Note E loudspeakers with his Origin Live TT (Upgrades-to-Origin-Live-turntables-a-review-of-sorts (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?44613-Upgrades-to-Origin-Live-turntables-a-review-of-sorts)).

A while back I had taken my own 211 monoblocks around and that was documented by this thread: The 211s have landed (http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?76621-The-211s-have-landed)

Kevin now has rather nicer AN Es than in that visit. Thus far I have heard the AN P4 monos, the Kegon monos and Kegon Balanced (which he reviewed for Hi-Fi Critic recently), the 8 Watt 2A3 Kageki and this time the Tomei. These have been used with M5 and M8 preamps and AN 4.1 DAC.

The Tomei is between the Jinro and the Ongaku, which are all based on the Ongaku circuit. Output is quoted as 18 Watts by AN, though the original Ongaku of Japan is rated as 27 Watts. I am completely ignorant of the differences and reason for the power rating differential between the UK and Japanese efforts.

This was only a brief visit, with a few tracks heard.

From the line up of AN amps above, this integrated is by far my favourite. That is chiefly because it showed a very similar set of traits and general all round goodness that my 211 monos did.

So why was it so good in my book? The 18 Watts available from the Tomei still managed to produce a huge soundstage projecting right into the room many feet forward of the speakers, but still with excellent depth portrayal and detail rendition. The drive capability seemed far better than any 300B or 2A3 AN amp variant heard so far, very surprising considering the rated power. Not ultimately as capable as the Austria Analogue’s 80 Watts nominal – there is a limit to what 18 Watts can do, obviously, but much, much closer in terms of drive capability than perhaps you would expect.

Kevin has his AN Es angled in at what appears to be almost 45 degrees at the moment. From the other end of the large lounge, this really did work. One wonders what you are actually hearing, in the sense that the cross over point of the left and right channels is well before the seated position i.e. the right channel must be bouncing off the left hand wall before it gets to you to a large degree, but it certainly worked brilliantly in practice. The bass response at the far end of the room is also generous compared to that experienced much closer to the speakers i.e. at the point where the degree of inflection meets exactly with the left and right ear. Give me the longer listening distance every time, though.

The overall result was really quite close to the AA monos – far closer than the 300B or 2A3 variants. Detail rendition was, I would say, excellent. Definitely a fabulous amp.

What we’ve learnt is that if you want to peel a pair of AN Es wide open, and create a superb soundscape with excellent depth and detail, then a 211 based amp would appear to be the way to go. The power rating isn’t so much what is relevant here, it would appear that a high quality 20 odd Watt 211 amp will do the job very nicely.

The overall effect is very natural and real sounding, in the way that valve amps seem to be able to deliver, possibly by clipping well and adding a little something to the input source. But hell, at the end of the day, we’re in the business of listening rather than measuring here, and this is a fine example of technical prowess becoming irrelevant when you hear the sonic results of this particular implementation of thermionic madness.

Respect to PQ for this amp. It is for me the best of his I have heard. I’d be curious to hear the cheaper Jinro in the same situation to assess the differential, or indeed the more expensive Ongaku. None of these options can be regarded as excellent value for money by most, and indeed I don’t think they are. But that doesn’t stop the Tomei from being very good indeed, if you are prepared to pay the required wonga.

BTW: the Tomei was loaded with ELROG 211s, but Kevin rates the Psvane 211 replica as very good too.

No pics I am afraid, Kevin can oblige if he feels that way inclined I would guess.

struth
26-05-2016, 12:42
Like the handbag....suits you sir:eyebrows:

User211
26-05-2016, 12:44
Thought I'd slip in a wheel shot for Marco...:)

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Porsche%20Exp/IMG_20160523_083849848_zpsygthufdx.jpg

Macca
26-05-2016, 13:11
Enough of the amps, what were the porkers like?

User211
26-05-2016, 16:07
The porkers? For having fun the top spec ceramic braked S was nice. The engines are rougher as they have gone from being flat 6 to flat 4, but with turbo charging. There's better torque at low revs, which meant you could go round the bendy circuit in a manual in 2nd gear, basically. That's actually pretty boring TBH as it all seems a bit too easy with no gear changing - so I deliberately did it LOL. In the PDKs, you just don't care but they do gear change around the circuit. Driving fast in PDKs is a cinch. Less so in a manual.

The 718 base is 300 BHP. That's plenty for a road car IMHO. Price is up a bit and at the mo there will be no discounts. Think 0-60 is about 4.8.

Thankfully they haven't messed the looks up like Merc did with their SLK.

My wife was behind me at one stage being driven by an instructor, as she freaked out a bit driving one herself. Apparently he was following me with a grin. Gillian reckons he was enjoying it and I was driving as fast as he was anyway. Pretty pleased with that TBH:)

I won't be ordering one - I'll keep mine for years TBH and the flat 6 is really nice - it does sound and feel better to my ears. Don't get me wrong though they still sound good. They are a bit more Subaru in nature I reckon.

Yomanze
26-05-2016, 16:41
Hmm the flat 6 is what makes a Porsche IMHO. Stunningly original engine design.

User211
26-05-2016, 17:16
There's been a fair few complaints about the flat 4 turbos... but at the end of the day on paper the 718s outperform the previous models.

Yomanze
26-05-2016, 17:19
True, but on paper a Casio digital watch outperforms my automatic movement Omega. :D

User211
26-05-2016, 17:23
Hey I have a 1967 Omega auto...:)

Yomanze
26-05-2016, 17:24
Hey I have a 1967 Omega auto...:)
Me too, a "superflat" Connie. :)

Macca
26-05-2016, 17:27
Macca's Entropic Law of Hi-Fi forums: No matter what the topic of the original post all unlocked threads will eventually become about watches.

struth
26-05-2016, 17:31
Hey I have a 1967 Omega auto...:)

Ive an 1891 Elgin :ner:

Marco
26-05-2016, 17:58
Thought I'd slip in a wheel shot for Marco...:)

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Porsche%20Exp/IMG_20160523_083849848_zpsygthufdx.jpg

GORGEass...! :D

You can't beat black wheels with red calipers and drilled discs :respect: I'm also noting the use of P-Zeros...


Spent this last Monday morning driving the new Porsche 718 around the Porsche Experience tracks at Silverstone. Drove 4 different variants of the 718 selected from the pic below.


So which one was best (read as most fun to drive)? :)

Of course it goes to say that this is far more interesting than any hi-fi bollocks! :lol:;)

Marco.

KevinF
26-05-2016, 18:22
...What we’ve learnt is that if you want to peel a pair of AN Es wide open, and create a superb soundscape with excellent depth and detail, then a 211 based amp would appear to be the way to go. The power rating isn’t so much what is relevant here, it would appear that a high quality 20 odd Watt 211 amp wi ll do the job very nicely.


...and back in the audio room .....

What Justin heard is primarily down to iron and component/wire quality. Elrogs are the cherry, but not the whole picture. I reviewed some Consonance Cyber 211s on the 'wam last year and they are a cheap-seats Ongaku design with IE OPTs, caps instead of interstage transformers, and all-copper. For the money they are astonishing value, and for not a lot are eminently tweakable.

I've not heard a Jinro in my system but the Tomei is madly dynamic. It uses a different power supply to the UK Ongaku that Andy Grove says is made to be *funky*. Silver in the secondaries and elsewhere adds a nice degree of sonic refinement to the funk. As with the Chinese Cyber amps installing (even) better quality caps and the like may well improve things further.

To the consternation of some, I prefer my Tomei with E-HE SE Sig speakers, trading Alnico sophistication for Ferrite dynamic efficiency.

User211
26-05-2016, 18:48
GORGEass...! :D

You can't beat black wheels with red calipers and drilled discs :respect: I'm also noting the use of P-Zeros...



So which one was best (read as most fun to drive)? :)

Of course it goes to say that this is far more interesting than any hi-fi bollocks! [emoji38];)

Marco.
People spec Boxster's to look like an S but if it doesn't have red callipers it isn't an S.

Don't be silly - the most expensive S with ceramic brakes. Badass. Only he didn't know the price. In excess of £70K I think. Twas the white one.

Go and do it Marco. You'll 'kin love it.

Tyres vary seems like what they feel like putting on. No apparent logic I can determine.

User211
26-05-2016, 19:06
To be fair, the S, while awesome, is in some sense less fun. You have to push the base model to get where the S was a while ago with less effort. That actually makes the harder working car sound livelier and more fun. Push the S, and you really do move. It needs a better track than the Porsche Experience has.

KevinF
26-05-2016, 19:14
I had a memorable spin as a passenger in Justin's 6 cylinder Porker and was much impressed by the balance and braking, if less so by the grunt compared to my own Merc 5.4 V8. Nevertheless, life or death cross country journey, I'd choose the Porsche, no doubt. Agility trumps power. And now we are back to audio....

User211
26-05-2016, 20:08
Ah but both base and S 718 Boxster's are quicker... and mine is top end LOL.

Yes a dynamic amp indeed. Forgot to mention that important aspect.

So, gents, Porsche salesman that I am not, next Whittlebury Hi-Fi show why not kill two birds with one stone and do this: Spa-Stay-and-Porsche-Driving-Experience-Just-169pp*- (http://www.whittleburyhall.co.uk/Leisure/Offers-and-Promotions/Spa-Stay-and-Porsche-Driving-Experience-Just-169pp*-)

If they'll accept bookings for that weekend that is (oooh look they will at the mo and its a 911 Carrera!!! Look what else you get thrown in too.).

The 550A. 3 million to you. The one that took James Dean. The wreck of which has gone missing. All pics on this thread are lousy mobile efforts apologies forgot the camera. No creature comforts in a 550A.

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Porsche%20Exp/IMG_20160523_083820740_HDR_zpsxyr1dkyv.jpg

http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/User_211/media/Porsche%20Exp/IMG_20160523_083820740_HDR_zpsxyr1dkyv.jpg.html?so rt=3&o=10

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Porsche%20Exp/IMG_20160523_083827837_zpsuutzapvu.jpg

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Porsche%20Exp/IMG_20160523_084045003_zpsjjm371t3.jpg

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Porsche%20Exp/IMG_20160523_083801545_zpsivfxxkwd.jpg

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Porsche%20Exp/IMG_20160523_083812393_zpsj3ysypjt.jpg

jandl100
26-05-2016, 21:33
Proper bloke thread this. :lol:

danilo
27-05-2016, 00:36
:eyebrows: A high school friend had one of those Porsches.
Sans the goofy D Jag affected head rest though.
Same seats..Sans 'fire extinguisher' too, plus it had a muffler.
We beat the daylights out of the thing over an Entire summer.
Better in Memory that reality though.. as it was pretty well a Poser car.
Another friends' old Merc SL 300 would leave it for dead anywhere anyplace
Ie: it was Slooow 130 hp !?? really?.. 50 was more credible.
It was also Sketchy to OMG in corners. Brakes? plan wayy ahead.
This was late 60's .. an MGB of the day was of similar, arguably superior, performance.. 'nuff said.

However: IF he had kept it.. it would be worth a wheel barrow of $$ today. Nostalgia = $$$$$
Still.. looking at the piccies. Pretty in a primitive way.
Would I want it back? In a word: No

User211
27-05-2016, 07:26
Sounds like a croc. I had a mate with a 924. I hated it. Felt like a tank, was ugly and wasn't fast.

Not all were good by any means.

Mind you MGBs were fatal around bends. I wrote one off and so did my brother.

He did it with Rod Argent as a passenger and put him in hospital - he was a musician some may of heard of. Used to date his sister.