View Full Version : Heybrook TT2 project
hi,
just bought this a a second tt,i fancied a bit of a project,put a bid in a won. we shall see how it compares to the fruitbox!
will the ittok work ok or have i got to source another arm?
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/_57hiho_zpsexpvbijv.jpg
Virtual-Symmetry
22-05-2016, 21:01
I could think of better arms mate
:D
so can i ! :)
i feel an alphason may be what's required:eyebrows:
Virtual-Symmetry
22-05-2016, 21:03
Yup
Virtual-Symmetry
22-05-2016, 21:06
'Xenon' what id fit on it
i was thinking more of the alphason HR100mcs
The HR100 is nice but the Ittok will also work on it fine (I wouldn't bother with the Xenon).
Wakefield Turntables
22-05-2016, 21:46
I Wouldn't spend a grand (that's what it'll cost) on the top Alphason arm, especially as your mating it with a sprung suspension TT.
You knew this was coming, didn't you?
774.
Virtual-Symmetry
22-05-2016, 21:48
Yeah right mark :rolleyes:
Jamie: I doubt you would hear much difference between the two alphas
You knew this was coming, didn't you?
774.
what about the 774sm,1 up from the 774 original
I Wouldn't spend a grand (that's what it'll cost) on the top Alphason arm, especially as your mating it with a sprung suspension TT.
im not spending a grand mate,half that will get the arm
IIRC the people who made he SM also made an arm for Heybrook, although I have no experience of either. Bit of info here: http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=20375
Are you planning any mods, or just a bit of spit and polish?
hi shane,
im not sure at the moment,it seems to be in good condition so i'll have to wait till the weekend to check it out and collect.
its a bit of an impulse buy,ive done a lot of reading up today on them and thought id see how it compares to my lp12.
from all accounts it doesn't have the boomy bass that my pre cirkus lp12 has (or so ive read) and i like the cast sub chassis compared to the linn pressed steel one.
what would your suggestions be regarding mods?
I've not come across anyone who's made any significant improvements to the basic structure, so I think you'd get the most benefit from looking at the motor and power supply. I have to add that I've never tried any mods myself, so I can only suggest what I think might make a difference, rather than offer the benefit of experience.
Virtual-Symmetry
23-05-2016, 05:05
Rather have the original '774' any day on sound quality terms, however i could not live with the Engineering Quality, the reason i got shut of my last one & one of the reasons i use SME
I know what you mean Andre, but it fits in well with the very slightly agricultural engineering of the TT2, and sounds sublime. If I'd been clever enough to design an arm when I did the TT2, I'd like to think I would have come up with something like the 774.
Virtual-Symmetry
23-05-2016, 07:33
If i had plenty of time id have probably bought another '774' stripped it, had a few things re engineered sent it off to have a top notch finish applied.. I never liked the cast section that hold the Anti-Skate lever but do love the removable wand idea with cart mounting block, & always like arms with no head shell to speak of, probably the reason i used to like the Syrinx 'PU-2' for that.
Yeah right mark :rolleyes:
Jamie: I doubt you would hear much difference between the two alphas
Yes - right andre :rolleyes:
Virtual-Symmetry
23-05-2016, 09:32
:flasher:
Beobloke
23-05-2016, 12:07
IIRC the people who made he SM also made an arm for Heybrook, although I have no experience of either. Bit of info here: http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=20375
The Heybrook arm was actually made by Alphason. It was loosely based on the Delta but of a higher specification.
Just bought a 774 so now I'm back in the club :fingers: :dance::yesbruv:
Virtual-Symmetry
23-05-2016, 12:50
Great you need an armboard now. Its nearly an SME pattern, you will have to take a bit out because of the base connector
Arkless Electronics
23-05-2016, 13:01
The original Heybrook arm was probably the worst ever offered for sale!! They literally dropped to bits!
Don't remind me, Jez! It was a dreadful thing. All the mechanical integrity of a piece of well matured Stilton.
I don't think that's a problem, Andre. My 774 dropped straight onto a standard TT2 SME arm board without modification. The only problem you'll find is that the arm lift lever fouls the lid if you close it with the lift up. Sometime I'll take a few mm off the end of the lever. It's longer than it needs to be anyway....
thanks all,
do you think shane it worth making a armboard using the 2 layers of ply or something else,
i made one for my AR turntable using ebony and that made a big difference,with the tt2 though its a lot bigger so warping may be a problem, i could thinking about it use ply and veneer in ebony.
here's the arm,fitted with an xtc counter weight,the original is there its suffering from the dreaded sagging :(
all in so far it stands me in for £360.:carrot::carrot: lets see if it turns into a linn beater :)
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/_zpsjrfd0wwm.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/_57popkp_zpsqcavvmrc.jpg
Virtual-Symmetry
23-05-2016, 16:35
Guy at Puresound might have an Arm board for it..
cool,i'll fire of an email,thanks Andre :)
Pretty sure Guy has some arm boards but if not then yes, it's just two sheets of 9mm ply glued together, with a couple of m4 bolts through the bottom sheet. I don't have the drawings but I can take measurements off mine if needed.
thanks matey,he's only got mk2 boards which are shorter,yes?
Virtual-Symmetry
23-05-2016, 18:43
The older ones having a Taller, Narrow Rocker switch!! Nathan [Nuff] has one..
DIY with Birch Ply then..
Hi Jamie.
Nice TT2! I do like this turntable and I have regretted selling mine I must admit.
A while ago Shane uploaded the armboard measurements to a thread I started when first bought mine.
I've just taken a screen shot of them so not brilliant quality I'm afraid. Keep the updates coming mate!
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/85107a657abb327f4c34ee380307ce51_zpshrn44of7.jpg
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/349e9f7fbdfa458d1230beca508b114e_zpssc2tx4dd.jpg
Did I? Jesus, my memory's shot to bits! That's the right drawing though.
There's a lot of confusion about what constitutes a mk1 or a mk2, and in fact it didn't work like that. The main changes over the first few years were the platter (black or polished), the plinth (ply top layer or MDF), the switch (big and clunky or smaller and less clunky) and the chassis (fabricated steel or cast alloy). That was the order in which they were changed, but they didn't all happen at the same time, so a steel chassis could be found with either type of plinth, switch or platter, but you won't find an alloy chassi with the early plinth, switch or platter. There were also minor mods to the motor very early on, and well into the alloy chassis era the lid became a clear moulding rather than smoked. Much later the TPS1 arrived, and later again, towards the end of production, the plinth was completely redesigned with a half-length armboard but these seem to be pretty rare. Over the last few years I've kept an eye on eBay and most of the forums where TT2 discussions are likely to come up, and the only one of those I've come across is Guy's.
The majority of TT2s out there will be alloy chassis with the original plinth and will look like this one, but you could find one that looked exactly the same but had a steel chassis; indeed, I can't be certain which chassis this one's got!
Virtual-Symmetry
24-05-2016, 03:44
I thought the black platters came about due to quality control issues with the the polished ones?
Go on Shane warn him about the little red arrows adjacent to the suspension Springs when setting up :eyebrows:
Lol that's the factory pre set Spring positions isn't it?
Krrect, as they say down 'yer. The first two or three batches of 100 platters had to be sprayed black due to casting blemishes. Most would polish up ok now, but on or two looked like they had severe acne. The Spring positions were set using triangular stickers in standard positions. They didn't need to be individually set because the springs were very consistent.
pure sound
27-05-2016, 08:49
Krrect, as they say down 'yer. The first two or three batches of 100 platters had to be sprayed black due to casting blemishes. Most would polish up ok now, but on or two looked like they had severe acne. The Spring positions were set using triangular stickers in standard positions. They didn't need to be individually set because the springs were very consistent.
I still have a big bag of those Heybrook springs. They do vary by +/- 2mm I'd guess. I was told (by Barry who used to build TT2's there) that the matching was in terms of the unloaded height. If you line 20 or 30 up on a table you can group most of them into 3's of similar height. That's how I supply them when people order anyhow.
I still have the correct authentic belts too which were a very high quality item. I'd like to know who the manufacturer was, the bags are unmarked. I was told that they were by the same manufacturer who made the longer Linn belts although I recently heard that that manufacturer is no more hence Linn's recent price hike on belts.
Hi, do you think it's worth changing the springs for new ones?
pure sound
27-05-2016, 09:48
It depends how well you are able to set the suspension as is. Springs should theoretically carry on working to spec provided their elastic limit isn't exceeded but people do occasionally report 'sag'. I'm not really sure why that should occur. Even with a really heavy arm they aren't loaded that much by the suspended mass. What I don't have are the rubber bushes that go at either end. You might want to check they are fully rejuvenated. Some people (divers) recommend silicone grease for keeping rubber items supple & functioning properly.
I don't remember matching springs for height, but Barry certainly assembled more TT2s than anyone else, so he would know. The whole thing about Spring alignment is because of a coil spring's natural tendency to lean in one direction under load according to how it's wound, which can be predicted from the relative positions of the ends of the coils. IIRC, the TT2 spring ends were both on the same side of the spring, so one side of the spring had "more coils" than the other. By ensuring that the three springs were correctly aligned, the leans counter-acted each other.
I very much doubt that the springs would sag significantly, they're very lightly loaded. Equally, I've never come across any deteriorated spring seats, but if there was a problem they would probably be the most difficult part of the whole turntable to replace, as the company that mounded them has disappeared long since. I don't remember who supplied the belts, but it's quite likely that we used the same supplier as Linn. Ivor was always very helpful.
I'd be a bit careful about using silicon grease on the Spring seats. The ability to adjust the suspension from above depends on the spring not rotating when the bolt is turned. If you grease the Spring seats, make sure that the suspension nut rotates really easily on the bolt thread, and make really sure that none of the grease migrates upwards to where the bolt passes through the plinth. A tight fit there is essential to making sure the suspension adjustment doesn't go off over time.
Why does this stupid phone insist on spelling Spring with a capital s ?
pure sound
27-05-2016, 12:35
Thanks for that. I guessed the need for careful alignment had something to do with a spring's tendencies but wasn't sure what the exact cause was. Makes good sense although I prefer tension springs for suspension purposes if springs are going to be used.
well i picked it up today and have just finished putting the ittok on,i have to say that although its easier to level, setting the springs is a real pain in the arse,unlike linn you cant simply twist the springs round you have to undo the nuts to do it,the nuts for the springs sit in the rubber lower bushes and are held captive.
the red paint lines on the springs are no where near the marks on the chassis,but i got there in the end :)
im listening to pink floyds the division bell and i sounds rather good,there seems to be more slam than the lp12 and more detail.
cant wait to try it with the 774 arm now,i fear the lp12 might end up on ebay!
heres a pic of the underside:)
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/IMG_0351_zpsaitllcwl.jpg
spinning,
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/IMG_0352_zpspxi63sw6.jpg
Looking good Jamie. I always liked these decks
Virtual-Symmetry
29-05-2016, 19:35
Aye put the LP12 on flea bay that's a good lad
:thumbsup:
walpurgis
29-05-2016, 19:55
Very nice Jamie. It'll sound a treat with the 774! :)
cheers geoff,grant and andre,
geoff i dont suppose you have a spare 774 counter weight you wanna flog?
walpurgis
29-05-2016, 20:09
geoff i dont suppose you have a spare 774 counter weight you wanna flog?
No. But I'm planning to have my lathe up and running soon and may experiment with making counterweights (and other bits).
Does anybody know what the 774 counterweight stub thread is?
i can tell you in mm if that helps?
looks like someone's had it in bits. Were the springs rotated out of their correct positions? Can't see how that would happen unless someone had taken it to bits, and yes, you would need to remove the nuts to correct that but once done, it won't need doing again. More strange is that chassis earth lead. It appears to be soldered to one of the springs, when it should be terminated with a solder tag held by a screw in that little threaded hole in the chassis just above the Spring. As it is at the moment one Spring is earthed but the chassis itself isn't.
walpurgis
29-05-2016, 20:37
i can tell you in mm if that helps?
I can measure the pitch etc. in metric, but it's pretty certainly not a metric thread. UNF maybe? I'll have to see if I can find my old thread gauges. I've probably got suitable taps somewhere buried away.
(having a good think about making a 774 inspired arm actually)
I'm liking your work young man. I felt guilty you were doing all this work on your turntable so to make myself feel better I dusted mine........now time for a rest zzzzzzzzz
looks like someone's had it in bits. Were the springs rotated out of their correct positions? Can't see how that would happen unless someone had taken it to bits, and yes, you would need to remove the nuts to correct that but once done, it won't need doing again. More strange is that chassis earth lead. It appears to be soldered to one of the springs, when it should be terminated with a solder tag held by a screw in that little threaded hole in the chassis just above the Spring. As it is at the moment one Spring is earthed but the chassis itself isn't.
dont worry about the earth i undid it to put the linn cable earth on,yes it earths onto the chassis,i think 2 out of the 3 lined up before i started,i tried it lined up but the bounce was crap,weight of the ittok perhaps?
it says in the owners manual that depending on the weight of the tone arm you can go either side of the red lines.
why is there 2 painted lines on one of the chassis spring points?
I'm liking your work young man. I felt guilty you were doing all this work on your turntable so to make myself feel better I dusted mine........now time for a rest zzzzzzzzz
yes mate dont over do it :)
Rush2112
30-05-2016, 06:34
Yes, Alaphson HRS 100MCS would be a good choice or something from Helius perhaps. Good turntable on its day well worth the effort to find the right arm.
why is there 2 painted lines on one of the chassis spring points?
Good question, to which I've completely forgotten the answer! Still, as long as you've got the bounce right you won't need to move them again. The flip-side of having springs that are difficult to rotate in situ is that once they're in the right place they stay put. It's worth noting that the Ittok, with its stiff heavy armlead, is one of the hardest to set up. The 774 will be somewhat easier.
spinning,
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/IMG_0352_zpspxi63sw6.jpg
That's a very cool looking turntable, Jamie. Bet it sounds great with those Mana'd 66s on the end! :cool:
Marco.
Very nice Jamie. It'll sound a treat with the 774! :)
Personally, I'd keep the Tik-Tok ;)
Both are good, just different strokes for different folks....
Marco.
Good question, to which I've completely forgotten the answer!.
ha ha!,a bit more tweeking this morning,looking at the springs again its only one that doesn;t line up (the front one).
the bounce its good which is as you say more important.ive ordered some new springs from guy just in case they are on the tired side.
That's a very cool looking turntable, Jamie. Bet it sounds great with those Mana'd 66s on the end! :cool:
she's sounding mighty fine,not a huge difference to the lp12 but i feel its better.
Marco.
Personally, I'd keep the Tik-Tok ;)
Both are good, just different strokes for different folks....
Marco.
bloody hell! someone thats prefers the ittok over the 774,perhaps i was a bit quick to rush out and get one,ive had 774 before and liked it,i dont think theres much in it to be fair to the ittok and personally the ittok looks more business like,solid and up to the job. id still like to try an alpahason at some point though.
Virtual-Symmetry
30-05-2016, 10:22
ofc Marco is clearly pulling your leg
Lol... That staunchly anti-Linn chip is firmly impregnated in your bonce, innit! :eyebrows: S'ok, I know why and understand.
Late Ittoks, IMO, are amongst some of the best engineered (and sounding) medium-mass gimballed tonerams ever produced. Also, in my experience, they work very well on TT2s, call it synergy - so no, Jamie, I wouldn't be in a major rush to change your tonearm.
By all means do so, if curiosity gets the better of you, and the Mission is undoubtedly a fine tonearm, but much will depend on the cartridge(s) you intend using on it. Unlike some others here, I'm a low-compliance MC fanboy, so an Ittok would be far better suited to my needs than a 774.
You should always think of T/Ts as a collection of parts, hopefully working together in perfect symmetry, so you have to ensure that you choose the right parts, which work together, in order to achieve said symmetry! ;)
Marco.
Don't discourage him, Marco. I'd be really interested to know how Jamie compares the one against the other. I've never been a great fan of the Ittok, it always seemed a bit of a brute to me, but it's years since I heard one so nowadays it's probably more blind prejudice. I do love my own 774 though, it sits very well with the ethos of the TT2.
shane it will have to go some,im just listening to,floyds is there anybody out there from the wall lp.the acoustic guitar sounds amazing,trouble is with both arms (fixed headshell) i fear i'll end up going insane with all the alignment,at the least a migraine lol.
Don't discourage him, Marco. I'd be really interested to know how Jamie compares the one against the other. I've never been a great fan of the Ittok, it always seemed a bit of a brute to me, but it's years since I heard one so nowadays it's probably more blind prejudice.
Lol... Each to his or her own. Agreed that the Ittok is a 'bit of a brute', but that's precisely why it works so well with low-compliance MCs! :)
My prejudice would be against flimsy, low-mass arms, fitted with cartridges tracking at feather weights (the complete opposite, for example, from Andre), and instead love 'battleship build' arms, weighing almost as much as an elephant's trunk, fitted with cartridges tracking at weights a cutting lathe would almost baulk at :eyebrows: as I value bass weight, authority and scale, and dislike the often lightweight, 'ethereal' sound of the former in comparison, but both the high and low-mass approaches are valid in their own right.
Marco.
Virtual-Symmetry
30-05-2016, 14:17
Jammie those '774' wands are dead easy to set up, i wish all arms were like that..
Virtual-Symmetry
30-05-2016, 14:27
My prejudice would be against flimsy, low-mass arms, fitted with cartridges tracking at feather weights (the complete opposite, for example, from Andre), and instead love 'battleship build' arms, weighing almost as much as an elephant's trunk, fitted with cartridges tracking at weights a cutting lathe would almost baulk at :eyebrows: as I value bass weight, authority and scale, and dislike the often lightweight, 'ethereal' sound of the former in comparison, but both the high and low-mass approaches are valid in their own right.
Ive always been a Uni-Pivot kinda guy, best sounding bearings are no bearings.. The Mayware 'F4' was my all time fav arm, i sold it cos i had a moment of being pissed off with everything & just stuck the SME'3009' on for easiness :eyebrows: With uni's i like that feeling that the Styli is free to do what it wants without any restrictions from a bearing..
True enough Jamie, there are few exercises in hifi more vexatious than trying to compare arms. If it's singing with the Ittok, then let it sing, but I'm sure the temptation to compare will come soon enough!
Marco, the 774 is certainly lightweight, but it's anything but flimsy. The bearing block assembly is one of the most rigid in the business and it's this that makes it so special. There are many who'd swear it was a good match for the Denon 103. I'm not sure I'd agree with that but if I'm right in identifying a DL304 in Jamie's Ittok, I'd say the 774 would be a better match for that
Virtual-Symmetry
30-05-2016, 14:45
Just remember the '774' has a proper Anti-Skate
:sofa:
True enough Jamie, there are few exercises in hifi more vexatious than trying to compare arms. If it's singing with the Ittok, then let it sing, but I'm sure the temptation to compare will come soon enough!
Marco, the 774 is certainly lightweight, but it's anything but flimsy. The bearing block assembly is one of the most rigid in the business and it's this that makes it so special. There are many who'd swear it was a good match for the Denon 103. I'm not sure I'd agree with that but if I'm right in identifying a DL304 in Jamie's Ittok, I'd say the 774 would be a better match for that
its a nagaoka mp-500 :)
Ive always been a Uni-Pivot kinda guy, best sounding bearings are no bearings.. The Mayware 'F4' was my all time fav arm, i sold it cos i had a moment of being pissed off with everything & just stuck the SME'3009' on for easiness :eyebrows: With uni's i like that feeling that the Styli is free to do what it wants without any restrictions from a bearing..
I agree with all of that. However, beware any 'absolutes'...
Trouble is, in hi-fi, there is always some form of compromise to be had, (never a 'free lunch') and unfortunately unipivots aren't perfect either, as their superbly open (almost 'liquid') midrange is created at the expense of ultimate bass weight/authority. This was always the case, back in the day, when doing comparisons on an LP12, with an Ittok and Naim Aro, which neatly highlighted the differences in presentation between the unipivot and gimballed approach with tonearms.
Whilst I always liked what the Aro did in the midrange, I missed what the Ittok did in the bass, as the former lacked the 'heft' and low-end weight I seek from vinyl replay. It's all horses for courses though, and so you just have to decide what's right for you.
However, it's important to see arms and cartridges as pairings, and not as separate entities. Therefore, you should always choose your tonearm based on what cartridge you intend to fit, as that's ultimately what will give you the best sound :)
Marco.
Marco, the 774 is certainly lightweight, but it's anything but flimsy. The bearing block assembly is one of the most rigid in the business and it's this that makes it so special.
Absolutely, Shane. What I meant was 'flimsy' in appearance. I like 'industrial' looking tonearms, with nice 'fat' headshells, which house cartridges almost completely from view (one of the reasons I love the rather 'purposeful' look of SPUs), and so come from the school of thought that what looks 'right' is something like a Gray Research broadcast arm! ;)
Ultimately, I much prefer the best professional/broadcast equipment, to the domestic variety, and when I get around to it, intend fitting one of these to either a TD124 or Hammerite grey BBC Garrard 301: http://www.karmadon.net/shop/klon-tonarma-gray-206/
That's what you call a tonearm, lol! :eyebrows:
There are many who'd swear it was a good match for the Denon 103. I'm not sure I'd agree with that but if I'm right in identifying a DL304 in Jamie's Ittok, I'd say the 774 would be a better match for that
Never heard a DL-103 with a 774. It could work, but experience suggests there would be insufficient mass to fully optimise the Denon. For me, 103s always work best in fairly heavy, 'lossy' tonearms with detachable headshells.
They were originally designed to be fitted to Denon's own 12" broadcast arms, which of course are heavier than any conventional 9" arm, and so that's why if you're using the latter you have to try and replicate the mass of a 12" arm, in order to hear what the cartridge is capable of.
Fortunately, that's easy enough to do on tonearms with detachable headshells, as all you do is fit a heavier one! :)
Jamie uses a Nagaoka MP500, which I know rather well. It's a superb MM cartridge, but it likes a bit of mass, so would work better on his Ittok than I suspect it would on a 774.
Marco.
I do know where you're coming from, Marco. Just because I lust after a Lotus Elise doesn't mean that I couldn't have fun in a series 1 Land-Rover!
Virtual-Symmetry
30-05-2016, 18:31
I agree with all of that. However, beware such 'absolutes'...
Trouble is, in hi-fi, there is always some form of compromise to be had, (never a 'free lunch') and unfortunately unipivots aren't perfect either, as their superbly open midrange is created at the expense of ultimate bass weight/authority. This was always the case, back in the day, when doing back to back comparisons on an LP12, with an Ittok and Naim Aro, which neatly highlighted the differences in presentation between the unipivot and gimballed approach with tonearms.
Whilst I always liked what the Aro did in the midrange, I missed what the Ittok did in the bass, as the former lacked the 'heft' and low-end weight I seek from vinyl replay. It's all horses for courses, though, and so you just have to decide what's right for you.
However, it's important to see arms and cartridges as pairings, and not as separate entities. Therefore, you should always choose your tonearm based on what cartridge you intend to fit, as that's ultimately what will give you the best sound :)
Marco.
I did notice a slight lack of Bass weight with the Mayware, but i did also notice a lack of it with the SME '3009, S2 Imp'. Cartridge matching was perfect for both.. However years later i realised that LP's sound crap bottom end wise compared to CDee, but i hate CDee with a passion & had no desire to use them in the future, i knew full well Vinyl can easily sound better than CD! i realised this when i started listerning to EDM 12" Singles there was a definite light at the end of the tunnel.
Life suddenly appeared from nowhere with the SME, Bass weight & depth id never heard before with this arm, certainly contradicted what reviewers said about it back in the day.. but it was too late to give the Mayware another go. However im very happy with this combo now. I can hear everything ive always wanted to get from vinyl all those years..I must have a sixth sence keep this Deck/Arm/Amp combo for the thirty odd years that i have..
My vinyl collection is now totally made up of EDM 12" Singles..
Im just working with a cassette deck that can beat CD [Which aint hard] :lol: 100% Analogue then chucky
:eyebrows:
I do know where you're coming from, Marco. Just because I lust after a Lotus Elise doesn't mean that I couldn't have fun in a series 1 Land-Rover!
Indeed - different tools for different jobs! :)
The problem is when you try and use the same tool for every job, hoping that it'll work, or that it'll achieve optimum results....
Marco.
walpurgis
30-05-2016, 18:44
Having used the DL-103 and other low compliance cartridges like Deccas in a variety of arms. I agree with Marco's view that they tend to like an arm with a fair bit of mass.
However, the Mission 774 is the exception to the rule.
The neat thing is the variable fluid damping. Its resistiveness gives low compliance cartridges something to work against and allows the cantilever suspension full excursion in all planes, making the arm suitable for use with just about any half inch mount cartridge.
The low mass means high compliance MMs can also be accomodated by using little or no damping.
It is a very fine sounding arm. Being pretty neutral compared to many arms and it seems to throw up little in the way of resonances to colour things.
I've used mine with (amongst others) old Ortofon SL15E MCs and Decca Londons with low compliance, to ADC's with extremely high compliance and the 774 just takes it all in its stride.
im finding this all very interesting,what cartridge would be a good match for the 774 arm?
Virtual-Symmetry
30-05-2016, 18:55
AKG P8 'ES' Super Nova
:sofa:
Having used the DL-103 and other low compliance cartridges like Deccas in a variety of arms. I agree with Marco's view that they tend to like an arm with a fair bit of mass.
However, the Mission 774 is the exception to the rule.
The neat thing is the variable fluid damping. Its resistiveness gives low compliance cartridges something to work against and allows the cantilever suspension full excursion in all planes, making the arm suitable for use with just about any half inch mount cartridge.
The low mass means high compliance MMs can also be accomodated by using little or no damping.
It is a very fine sounding arm. Being pretty neutral compared to many arms and it seems to throw up little in the way of resonances to colour things.
I've used mine with (amongst others) old Ortofon SL15E MCs and Decca Londons with low compliance, to ADC's with extremely high compliance and the 774 just takes it all in its stride.
Nice one... It would be interesting, Geoff, to compare results, using the same turntable, with a 103 fitted to a 774, and one fitted with something which I've just described.
However, the test would need to be carried out on an idler or D/D, so that mass wouldn't affect suspensions, etc - a neutral platform, as it were, simply allowing the cartridge to do its stuff :)
Marco.
walpurgis
30-05-2016, 19:20
Nice one... It would be interesting, Geoff, to compare results, using the same turntable, with a 103 fitted to a 774, and one fitted with something which I've just described.
However, the test would need to be carried out on an idler or D/D, so that mass wouldn't affect suspensions, etc - a neutral platform, as it were, simply allowing the cartridge to do its stuff :)
Marco.
I agree. A comparison would be interesting and entertaining. Bear in mind that I have compared the 774 with a variety of arms, including high mass items, so I can guess well enough how things may sound. I'm not suggesting an alternative to the 774 would sound inferior by the way (unless it's an Ittok :D).
I guess I find out shortly if that's the case! Lol
walpurgis
30-05-2016, 19:37
im finding this all very interesting,what cartridge would be a good match for the 774 arm?
Virtually any cartridge.
Mine sounds gorgeous with the ZYX R100 Yatra or R50 Bloom MC in it and also turns in a great performance with a fine MM, namely an ADC 10E Mk.IV or Mk.II.
I have tried a huge range of other carts including. Many Denon MCs, Shure MMs, Deccas, Technics MCs, Ortofon MCs and MMs, Goldring MCs, Grados, etc., etc.
update,
new springs, belt and ply has arrived to make the ply tone arm board,got a nice cartridge coming courtesy of geoff,first spins will be on saturday.
happy days! :)
ive made the armboard up tonight and measured my holes for fixing from the original one,they are different to the photo measurements (see photo),mine are 143 and 173 down and 27 and 87mm.
when the tt's up and running i may go down the ebony route,it worked very well on my old AR tt.
Any news of the 774 yet, Jamie?
hi shane,
yep she's all up and running,and sounding rather nice!
i cant though make up my mind whats better,the heybrook or the lp12,its bloody close,they both do things that the other doesn't,i like the bass sound for sure though on the heybrook and i suppose its not a fair comparison because im using 2 different arms and 2 different cartridges and the linn also has a yannis tonearm cable,there's no definite winner,which by its nature makes the heybrook at the price very good for the money.
one thing ive noticed,the mission 774 seems too light for the springs,the bounce is very short and sharp,maybe some weight added to the tonearm board below the arm would help?
10 points if you can guess the cartridge!:)
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/IMG_0367_zps9b48iazk.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/IMG_0366_zpsyjdwwilt.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/IMG_0368_zpsaobxo3sx.jpg
walpurgis
16-06-2016, 18:45
10 points if you can guess the cartridge!:)
Do I get 10 points? :lol:
Do I get 10 points? :lol:
lol no it wouldn't be fair!
Virtual-Symmetry
16-06-2016, 21:01
Can you get a bit of 9mm copper plate, bond that to 9mm Marine ply. that should be heavy enough.
One thing I would do differently if I was doing another suspended turntable would be to try to ensure that each spring carried the same amount of weight. It might be an interesting exercise to add weight to the front end of the arm board to go some way towards achieving this.
Virtual-Symmetry
16-06-2016, 21:47
If i remember one of the additional suspension spring in the Source turntable was to compensate arm weight.
Any points on offer for knowing that you're playing The Wall by Pink Floyd?
Virtual-Symmetry
17-06-2016, 03:34
Any points on offer for knowing that you're playing The Wall by Pink Floyd?
& Side 1, Track: " Another Brick In The Wall Part 2"
now for sale chaps,see private exhibitions :)
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