Bi-Amping confusion

[Boyse6748]

Default Bi- Amping Confusion
Dear All,

HELP!!!!!!

Perhaps there is someone in the forum that could explain ? (As there is no definitive information on the Internet, which makes sense !)

I am currently bi-amping / bi-wiring my system ( Horizonal) which to me makes sense, as the left and right channels remain, as though using one stereo amp. ( according to my test disks )

Now.... I have tried vertical bi-amping, i.e. One amp for one speaker ( Left & Right). As described in many internet diagrams.

However, when tested, the Left & Right channels are coming out of each speaker ( which looking at the diagram, seems obvious). I.e., No defined left and Right channels ..????

To me, the Horizonal setup appears more natural, (Real Stereo), whereas, the Vertical doesn't sound too deferent..... But the is no defined left or Right.

Very confused.... So why both options ? (when one is true stereo and the other is most certainly not).

I know all the stuff about different amps to drive Bass and Treble, but that's not what I'm asking, or perhaps it's just a case of going with what you like?

Kit is:-

Townsend Rock 7 / SME V / Benz Wood / Whest Two / Spendor A5S / Quad 909's x Two etc, etc.

Any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated.

Peter

[walpurgis]

Here are two schematics that illustrate the differences:

Bi-Wiring

http://i63.tinypic.com/s3fw3o.jpg

Bi-Amping

http://i64.tinypic.com/xldylt.gif

[Stratmangler]

Default Bi- Amping Confusion
Dear All,

HELP!!!!!!



Photos of how you have wired it might help us diagnose it if you get the same results following the above diagram.

[lurcher]

Very confused.... So why both options ? (when one is true stereo and the other is most certainly not).

Both are true stereo (if done correctly). One way gives better LR separation (one amp per speaker) and the ability to make sure the HF and LF are matched (though the balance isnt), the other way, one amp for LF one for HF, different amp gain might alter the HF/LF balance.


However, when tested, the Left & Right channels are coming out of each speaker

Well, you may have got it wrong then.

The major reason you would want to use one amp for LF, and one for HF is if the two requirements are different, for example, you might want to use a big mosfet amp for LF, and a sweeter valve amp for HF. Or you may want to go three ways, if the crossover can do it.

[Arkless Electronics]

A theoretical benefit of "horizontal bi-wiring" is that the treble is being handled by a separate amp from the one driving the power hungry woofers and so is "just ticking over" with little load on the power supply, even when the bass is thumping out...

[danilo]

Erm.. it reads like you are running a left and right input from your Source to EACH amp !
Should be feeding Only one channel per amp.
Bi amping, IMO, as in without a line level crossover is only useful If one's speakers are Power Pigs and one's onhand amp(s) are low power / not up to the job.

[Boyse6748]

Thanks nick,

I think my post has been misunderstood, the question I'm asking is why the difference between horizontal and vertical bi amping ,, one works... The other appears not to. Well, not in the context I'm refereeing.

A geat answer, but not the one I was expecting.

Sorry but there are no wiring anomalies.

Old but not thick ,,,,,!!!!!!

Boysey

[Arkless Electronics]

Erm.. it reads like you are running a left and right input from your Source to EACH amp !
Should be feeding Only one channel per amp.
Bi amping, IMO, as in without a line level crossover is only useful If one's speakers are Power Pigs and one's onhand amp(s) are low power / not up to the job.

Indeed it does. There HAS to be some such wiring anomaly for the described problem to occur.

[Boyse6748]

http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/nn416/VintageAudi0/Stereo%20Configurations/6_Horizontal_Bi-Amp.jpg

This is the way it is .

Peter

[Arkless Electronics]

The diagram is correct but IF you have moved to vertical bi wiring you need to put both "rights" to one amp and both "lefts" to the other......

[Boyse6748]

That's just the way it is !!

Sounds good to me.

Even so.... Vertical didn't work for me..... Still confused !!! (Don't know why)

Boysey

[Arkless Electronics]

Oh and input leads back to as in the diagram if you've gone the other way with it of course!

[Boyse6748]

Yep,

But that's horizontal.....

Still confused ( sorry just a mechanical engineer speaking)

Boysey

[Kit1cat]

Are you using a pair of RCA splitters to send audio to both channels of each amp in your vertical set up?

look at the bi-amp guide under FAQ in this link.

https://www.amptastic.com/

[Arkless Electronics]

You need "Y" leads or two sets of outputs from your pre amp. If horizontal, ie one amp for bass and one for treble, then you need to feed each amp left and right signals from the pre, making sure you keep the channels the correct way round, ie "right" channel on both power amps for one speaker, "left" channel on both power amps for other speaker.
If going vertical ie one amp for each speaker, then you need to connect both inputs of one power amp to "left" from pre and both inputs of other channel to "right" from pre.
Hope this helps :)

Edit. Just seen reply from kit1kat and splitters are the same as "y" leads...

[ScottL]

What was said above. You need a splitter of some kind to vertical bi-amp. TTBOMK, the theory assuming 2 identical stereo power amplifiers & a 2-way speaker, is to ensure each has the same (notwithstanding stereo variations) current draw & power-supply load, in comparison to horizontal bi-amping where the LF amplifier needs to pump considerably more current than the HF. YMMV.

[lurcher]

You need a splitter of some kind to horizontal bi-amp as well, unless you have a mono switch.

[ScottL]

Good point. ;)

[Barry]

See if this helps: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?5818-Basics-amp-General-Bi-amping-and-Bi-wiring.

[Rush2112]

Hi Peter, great front end, so all that has been said above is valid, for me my preference was always one amp one speaker using two amps which are of course identical, in my case it was MF P180's having also tried, one running the HF the other running LF. The issue is always splitting the pre amp output and that brings into use other variables too "Y" RCA's different interconnect cables possibly etc etc Fortunately the P180"s had bridged mode so much simpler to execute. My advice is use your ears but try one option at a time listen to several tracks etc before swapping to the alternative configuration.

[Rush2112]

PS I have owned both many stereo amps and pre amps and power amps including mono blocks for me some of my most musical systems were with mono blocks namely Lumley Reference M120's although I now use a Krell stereo power amp !