View Full Version : Excellent report on this year's Munich show
Check it out: http://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?10531-2016%E5%B9%B4%E5%BE%B7%E5%9C%8B%E6%85%95%E5%B0%BC% E9%BB%91High-End%E9%9F%B3%E9%9F%BF%E5%B1%95%E5%AF%A6%E6%B3%81%E 5%A0%B1%E5%B0%8E-Munich-High-End-Show
The Germans don't half know how to do things right! :exactly:
Marco.
Yeah I was going to post that... amazed this forum has ignored it so far, really.
He uses a 4 year on Nikon costing about a grand. Good camera.
TechDAS AF3. Nicest looking of the bunch of TechDAS TTs.
walpurgis
08-05-2016, 13:17
Not heard of any of those brands. I'm sure some of it will be excellent, but there's some awful looking gear there. I just hate 'blingy' looking stuff. The young guy doing a demo looks like he'd just crawled out of bed with yesterday's clothes still on.
Virtual-Symmetry
08-05-2016, 13:24
You wont have heard of them cos your probably like me have zero interest i the tripe.
walpurgis
08-05-2016, 13:25
:lolsign:
Not heard of any of those brands. I'm sure some of it will be excellent, but there's some awful looking gear there. I just hate 'blingy' looking stuff. The young guy doing a demo looks like he'd just crawled out of bed with yesterday's clothes still on.
I've heard of most of the manufacturers that showed at Munich and actually listened to many of them. If you really haven't heard of any of them then you should investigate them further because, outside of the UK, many are very well known. Munich is a really fantastic show and a 'must go' if you are really interested in audio innovation. The majority of the stuff on show is very 'high end' in price though (and, to be fair, in quality) - there is a lot of weird, extreme and visually tasteless stuff, but the show is huge and there are good sounds to be heard.
---------
Alternatively, if one is the kind who thinks anything they can't afford must be a con or shit, then I suggest you stay at home (not aimed at you Geoff).
Our shows don't get even vaguely close IMHO. In fact by comparison they are embarassingly bad.
walpurgis
08-05-2016, 16:04
Alternatively, if one is the kind who thinks anything they can't afford must be a con or shit, then I suggest you stay at home.
That's rather pointed. Presumably for my benefit?
I know there's no logic to it, but the descriptive phrase 'High End' really irritates me.
That's rather pointed. Presumably for my benefit?
No, sorry, not aimed at you.
Frazeur1
08-05-2016, 16:46
I find the Munich show always a good thing to follow, if nothing else but to kind of stay in the loop and be able to see what is going on in other parts of the world. I would love to be able to go,check it out someday.
I do think sometimes it is easy to just put the head in the sand and go on without giving an honest effort to hear other gear that maybe outside of each of our sometimes admittedly small realms. When I have given the effort, I usually come away quite pleased.
There can be something for everyone, doesn't mean it has to be expensive, or cheap for that matter. The main thing is to just enjoy the music, no matter what.
By the way, my comments are pointed at myself here, no finger pointing intended, especially as I really don't know anyone here, but working on it!
walpurgis
08-05-2016, 17:07
No, sorry, not aimed at you.
OK Mark. No worries! It's easy to get the wrong end of the stick. :)
Yes, sorry again, I should have made it clearer, I can see how it looks like it was intended for you.
rigger67
08-05-2016, 17:25
I know there's no logic to it, but the descriptive phrase 'High End' really irritates me.
Any time I read those words my mental thesaurus just substitutes them with "EXPENSIVE" ;)
Virtual-Symmetry
08-05-2016, 17:51
OK Mark. No worries! It's easy to get the wrong end of the stick. :)
:whistle: News for u Mark if i was rolling in money i would never buy equipment like that.
I don't think it was intended specifically for you either, Andre (even though what he wrote may indirectly apply to you); it was more Mark making a general statement, if I've read him correctly :)
I certainly wouldn't entertain buying what I refer to as overpriced 'badge-fi' either, but I suspect that some of the gear demonstrated at Munich was very expensive for more justifiable reasons.
Marco.
pure sound
08-05-2016, 18:14
Not heard of any of those brands. I'm sure some of it will be excellent, but there's some awful looking gear there. I just hate 'blingy' looking stuff.
You have to remember that people buy HiFi for a variety of different reasons. One of those is sound quality but to many people looks are just as important and peoples' tastes vary not only in terms of sound but also in terms of what they'd have in their home. There's a lot of it I don't find attractive but it's obvious that some people do. It takes all sorts.
There were some utterly mental turntables there this year.
jandl100
08-05-2016, 18:40
Cor blimey, I'm turning into an old fogey like Geoff and Andr'e :wheniwasaboy: :lol:
So much bling. Meh.
Fascinating to see so much high£$-wonga product, though. I guess it must be selling, so the audiophile market is a lot stronger than we give it credit for here in the insular UK.
Insular indeed, plus Brits tend rather too much to want something for nothing! ;)
Our hi-fi shows, in comparison, are a joke.
Marco.
jandl100
08-05-2016, 18:57
Interesting to see so few high end panel speakers - it's almost all cones and domes in a box. Fancy boxes, often enough, but still boxes.
Very few horn speakers, too.
Certainly not the case in other years i.e. the two I have been, Jerry. I am back there next year defo. One year on, two years off. Enough delta change to make it worthwhile then.
Go once before you die, hi-fi fans.:D
twickers
08-05-2016, 21:19
Certainly not the case in other years i.e. the two I have been, Jerry. I am back there next year defo. One year on, two years off. Enough delta change to make it worthwhile then.
Go once before you die, hi-fi fans.:D
For the food and the beer, yes.
What none of those photos picked up on was (obviously) what wasn't the photographer picked up on; Like for example the launch of some truly welcome BRITISH hifi re-launches including:
New IMF stand mounters
New and probably the best ever B139
LS3/5a
This might not sound significant amongst all of the "bling" but I have it on good authority (:eyebrows:) that most of this year's production of all of the above was commissioned just at the Munich show. Sad in some respects as the UK is now the smallest market for even UK produced hifi (including a lot of relatively small cottage industry). What is that saying about the UK support for it's own hifi industry, what is left of it? That, perhaps, give's some indication of just why most Uk hifi shows are insignificant by comparison. It's not that we cannot put on a good show, but the argument amongst even some smallish companies is "why bother in the UK"? It's no secret amongst traders and manufacturers that UK shows don't even wipe their own noses these days. We're too small a market in these days of the "global village".
Good to see Falcon doing so well though, more power to Jerry (not of our parish, although he's a pretty cool guy too!)
Just read BMW have bought the MOC, so next year is the last Hi-End show (at least at that venue).
Reliability of source unknown but no reason to believe it is wrong.
anubisgrau
08-05-2016, 21:58
well as i mentioned before somewhere, it could be sour grapes (never been there and this year i was weighing virtually by tuesday evening), but from my perspective it really looks like you need a very good planning and preparation, especially if you have a bit of a specialist taste. on the other hand, there's no place where you can hear some mental WEs from the 30s, vox olympian, thomas mayer, audiotekne and similar in one go... so it's really a must. that said i hate this camera roll from the link...
walpurgis
08-05-2016, 22:07
Oh yes Gordan. I would so like to hear the Vox Olympians. However, I would have to sell everything including the wife to buy a set! :)
Looking at all that fancy gear in the numerous pics at beginning I have to say... what is it with huge speakers? I mean who will want stuff that size? I understand its a show to show off, but it is to me, a bit in your face "for the rich" imo of course... people are more than welcome to their opinions .... Think I'd rather have what ive got actually.:)
anubisgrau
08-05-2016, 23:59
there's tons of senseless things, that's why i said that one needs a good planning.
this is shockingly ridiculous in every possible sense, even before the price...(not because it comes from where i live but i don't give them a credit for that...)
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/04/trafomatic-audio-elysium-ultimate-power.html
this is shockingly ridiculous in every possible sense
Well, not ridiculous in the sense of 250TL make a really good SET if you can drive them whell.
Nowt wrong wi' a bit of aspiration...
This MSB Dac...phoaar!
Display needs to be red though not white. :D
http://www.my-hiend.com/leoyeh2/2016a/SGH_0691mm.jpg
Love the Industrial design, out of curiosity checked the price?
This Dac or two bedroom semi detached....uhm...ok, point taken.
Looking at all that fancy gear in the numerous pics at beginning I have to say... what is it with huge speakers? I mean who will want stuff that size? I understand its a show to show off, but it is to me, a bit in your face "for the rich" imo of course... people are more than welcome to their opinions .... Think I'd rather have what ive got actually.:)
What are you talking about? Speakers can never be big enough.
At least with the speakers you can see where the money goes. I'm bet some of the 'hi-end' amps are just £500 worth of bits in a fancy case.
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/e707dd5482a80c565f84506a844f8d15.jpg
jandl100
09-05-2016, 07:54
^ :nono: she's a 2 foot tall midget
Sad in some respects as the UK is now the smallest market for even UK produced hifi (including a lot of relatively small cottage industry). What is that saying about the UK support for it's own hifi industry, what is left of it?
I was talking to one retailer the other day, and asked about the demographic of his customers .... pensioners, he replied. Must be a different story in the emerging economies, judging from the pallets of gear destined for the far east I saw last time I was visited EAR.
The UK is a now about vintage gear and DIY. Far East will catch up in 20 years or so.
Neil McCauley
09-05-2016, 11:17
Our shows don't get even vaguely close IMHO. In fact by comparison they are embarassingly bad.
I agree 100%
walpurgis
09-05-2016, 11:37
The UK is a now about vintage gear and DIY.
I'd say there is truth in that. Certainly with a proportion of more serious Hi-Fi buffs. And I don't think it's necessarily about being skint either. Scarce and good vintage equipment can cost an awful lot of money. As can high quality new component parts. Investment in tools and materials can also be expensive. There are many 'hobbyists' in Hi-Fi (I include myself), who really enjoy the satisfaction from the refurbishing, tinkering and building aspects and new equipment obviously won't offer this.
jandl100
09-05-2016, 11:49
I think that should be ....
The UK AOS is a now about vintage gear and DIY.
;)
Look at the number of people using old Garrards and Lencos. Or getting kit custom-made.
I don't think the money has anything to do with it, either. It's about getting exactly what you want.
We're not very good with ourselves. For the most part, we are a bunch of overly critical, skeptical, unbelieving, unappreciative gits. Any sign of a hi-fi show in this country and we slag it to bits on online forums.
We destroy the confidence it takes to help us believe we can do better. Therefore, we don't, and that's half the reason we're in the mess we are now WRT the UK hi-fi scene and manufacturing.
False postulation? Or not? More than a degree of truth I reckon.
I'd say there is truth in that. Certainly with a proportion of more serious Hi-Fi buffs. And I don't think it's necessarily about being skint either. Scarce and good vintage equipment can cost an awful lot of money. As can high quality new component parts. Investment in tools and materials can also be expensive. There are many 'hobbyists' in Hi-Fi (I include myself), who really enjoy the satisfaction from the refurbishing, tinkering and building aspects and new equipment obviously won't offer this.
Intrestingly we are more toward our own speakers etc and seem to forget about thequality of many continental stuff. My speakers fetch a lot in europe and middle east etc but are pretty much unknown here....tis or was handy thpugh as i picked mine up at a fraction of their worth
We're not very good with ourselves. For the most part, we are a bunch of overly critical, skeptical, unbelieving, unappreciative gits. Any sign of a hi-fi show in this country and we slag it to bits on online forums.
We destroy the confidence it takes to help us believe we can do better. Therefore, we don't, and that's half the reason we're in the mess we are now WRT the UK hi-fi scene and manufacturing.
False postulation? Or not? More than a degree of truth I reckon.
I thought everyone went to shows to see just how bad you can get £100K of speakers and electronics to sound? Or to get a listen to the latest crappy jazz-lite audiophile release?
must be just me then ;)
I don't think the money has anything to do with it, either. It's about getting exactly what you want.
In my experience in the UK most people dont actually know what they want, but they do know what it would cost in parts if they could make it themselves, and thats the most they are prepared to pay for it (whatever it is).
Beobloke
09-05-2016, 13:26
I'd be interested to know how many of the people with strong 'anti' opinions here have actually been to the Munich Show...
Yes, some of the music is terrible, yes, some of the stuff is hideous and yes, I can't afford nearly all of it, but I'm glad it's around. As an example, Burmester's prototype flagship loudspeakers that weigh 500kg and have both "audiophile" and "loud" modes were an absolute riot and prove that the Germans most certainly do have a sense of humour. However, more seriously, I assume that they wouldn't have bothered coming up with the idea if they didn't think they could sell some. Also, in addition to the affordable items mentioned earlier, I see no-one has mentioned the new Cyrus ONE amplifier - a UK designed and built £699 integrated with Bluetooth streamer, line level inputs, an MM phono stage and 100W per channel. It did a sterling job of driving a pair of £12,000 Marten loudspeakers, to my ears. It wasn't all madness...
As you may have gathered, I went last week and I had a great time. For what it's worth, my highlights were:
- Kharma. Always one of my favourites but this time they had a real live jazz singer, Lyn Stanley, in their room, singing along with a recording of herself on a big open reel tape deck. Both her and the system sounded fab.
- Audio Technica's working prototype of their new flagship cartridge was very interesting and sounded very promising indeed.
- Elac. The new 'Miracord' turntable looks very nice, despite its lack of 6 record autochanging abilities! Their new flagship Concentro loudspeakers also sounded very impressive and looked like nothing they have ever done before - very unusual.
- Monitor Audio. The PL500IIs certainly looked like they belonged at Munich in size terms and sounded absolutely superb, despite the room being a bit small for them. However, when one considers that they bear a price tag less than some of the cables on display, this surely makes them something of a bargain, even if this is all relative?
- Acoustic Signature - a stand full of gorgeous and huge turntable filth. Glorious.
- Transrotor - See above!
- JBL D66000 Everests - Last time I heard these I was underwhelmed, but clearly they gel very well with Mark Levinson electronics.
- Meridian DSP-8000 - nothing new here, but one of my favourite ever loudspeakers and the display pair were metallic purple. As this would match our lounge colour scheme perfectly, I can only assume this was some sort of subliminal subterfuge!
But my stars of the show, probably very predictably:
- B&O Beolab 90s. Their apparently strange looks in the pictures I have seen make much more sense in the flesh. So does their sound. Utterly astonishing to my ears and I sat spellbound on my numerous visits to their room.
I really would urge anyone who even has a passing interest in hi-fi to visit this show once. My flights were £57 return from Gatwick and a hotel room for one night can be had from about £70 if you plan ahead. Heck, even if you don't want to stay the night you can get a 6:20am flight out and a 9:55pm one back and have a full day at the show (it isn't enough, though...)
walpurgis
09-05-2016, 14:37
- Meridian DSP-8000 - nothing new here, but one of my favourite ever loudspeakers and the display pair were metallic purple. As this would match our lounge colour scheme perfectly, I can only assume this was some sort of subliminal subterfuge!
You have a metallic purple lounge? :eek:
jandl100
09-05-2016, 14:39
Yup, more power to the Munich Show. Not that it needs it! I've not been but pics and reports from Justin etal have sung its undoubtedly well-earned praises.
It clearly caters to lesser mortals as well as Russian oligarchs, internet billionaires and oil sheikhs.
I love hifi and have been known to spend a bit on it myself, but for some reason the Munich show just doesn't appeal.
I've even been offered an all expenses paid visit to it, but I turned it down.
I dunno. :scratch:
I'm not 'anti' the show at all, but .... y'know....
I would consider going, but I'd rather go to the Rocky Mountain one as I'm a chav and prefer American food to German.
Beobloke
09-05-2016, 16:15
I'm not 'anti' the show at all, but .... y'know....
I would consider going, but I'd rather go to the Rocky Mountain one as I'm a chav and prefer American food to German.
:doh: Please don't tell me you'd prefer American "beer" to proper German beer as well?!
I'm not 'anti' the show at all, but .... y'know....
I would consider going, but I'd rather go to the Rocky Mountain one as I'm a chav and prefer American food to German.
Chav my arse! ;)
Now, the thing is, have you tasted *proper* German food, which is rather different from the sausage and sauerkraut fodder the country is 'famous' for?
Marco.
Yup, more power to the Munich Show. Not that it needs it! I've not been but pics and reports from Justin etal have sung its undoubtedly well-earned praises.
It clearly caters to lesser mortals as well as Russian oligarchs, internet billionaires and oil sheikhs.
I love hifi and have been known to spend a bit on it myself, but for some reason the Munich show just doesn't appeal.
I've even been offered an all expenses paid visit to it, but I turned it down.
I dunno. :scratch:
Lol - you're a daftee! You should defo go, as it's a league apart from anything done in the UK, and you can turn it into a little holiday. I think you'd love it, and yes, the beer (and proper German food) is superb :barrel:
Marco.
I really would urge anyone who even has a passing interest in hi-fi to visit this show once. My flights were £57 return from Gatwick and a hotel room for one night can be had from about £70 if you plan ahead. Heck, even if you don't want to stay the night you can get a 6:20am flight out and a 9:55pm one back and have a full day at the show (it isn't enough, though...)
Indeed, but why rush? Make a (long) nice and relaxing weekend of it, and see a bit of the city, too! No way would I go there simply for the show, without also taking in some of the sights :cool:
Marco.
:doh: Please don't tell me you'd prefer American "beer" to proper German beer as well?!
No the yank beer is terrible. If I can't get Guinnessed I stick to the wine. I can't tell the difference with that. After the first glass, anyway.
Would like to hear those crazy B & O speakers though.
jandl100
09-05-2016, 16:51
:stalks:
http://www.bang-olufsen.com/~/media/Content/Sound/BeoLab90/beolab-90-bang-olufsen-form-follows-function-4.jpg
paulf-2007
09-05-2016, 17:04
We're not very good with ourselves. For the most part, we are a bunch of overly critical, skeptical, unbelieving, unappreciative gits. Any sign of a hi-fi show in this country and we slag it to bits on online forums.
We destroy the confidence it takes to help us believe we can do better. Therefore, we don't, and that's half the reason we're in the mess we are now WRT the UK hi-fi scene and manufacturing.
IP
False postulation? Or not? More than a degree of truth I reckon.
I went to a show.....once. The chord room was rubbish, the dealers are as bad as estate agents in general. They only play wishy washy music, ok I know if you are hoping to find customers you don't want to put them off by playing music they may not like, but come on, anyone really interested in buying should be prepared to wait until they can get their choice played.
I've been to the Munich show and absolutely loved it. I would have gone the last two years but the timing hasn't been good for me. I will certainly go again. The U.K. is an astonishingly provincial market - in some ways this has strength but it also encourages xenophobia and a blinkered attitude to what is happening outside of the UK back garden.
I thought everyone went to shows to see just how bad you can get £100K of speakers and electronics to sound? Or to get a listen to the latest crappy jazz-lite audiophile release?
must be just me then ;)
Macca proves the point.
I just need more money so I can box swap super hi-end kit at will. Just for kicks, you understand. And to make you feel bad just because you can't.
:D
Spectral Morn
09-05-2016, 19:52
I would like to go and probably will. If next year is the last in the current location, then next year will be the year I go.
The Black Adder
09-05-2016, 20:00
This looks identical to my Thorens under the platter (well apart from the naff idler wheel).... Is this a new Thorens?
http://www.my-hiend.com/leoyeh2/2016a/SGH_0932mm.jpg
anubisgrau
09-05-2016, 20:01
Well, not ridiculous in the sense of 250TL make a really good SET if you can drive them whell.
it is ridiculous, everything is ridiculous about it.
price of 120k, concept of having 75w SET, a 1500V anode voltage etc.
it makes more sense to invest 100.000 into the best hi eff speakers in the world and spend the last 20.000 on the best possible, custom made SET amp with 801A, 211 or whatsoever than 120.000 into this ridiculous amp aimed to drive some shitty 80dB speakers costing another 120.000
this amp is not about music, it's more about a sad state of the market today but better not to go there.
YMMW.... of course.
Noting wrong with a 75W set, nothing wrong with 1500v anode, though more would have been better for a 250tL. You have more volts in your microwave. Just needs doing safely. I do agree the price tag is a bit "extreme".
Spectral Morn
09-05-2016, 21:55
This looks identical to my Thorens under the platter (well apart from the naff idler wheel).... Is this a new Thorens?
http://www.my-hiend.com/leoyeh2/2016a/SGH_0932mm.jpg
Its a belt drive, or idler from Audiosilente called the GIRADISCHI BLACKSTONE, price 36000 Euros :eek:
http://www.audiosilente.com/blackstone.html
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2014/08/audiosilente-blackstone-idler-drive.html
Stratmangler
09-05-2016, 23:41
I'm not 'anti' the show at all, but .... y'know....
I would consider going, but I'd rather go to the Rocky Mountain one as I'm a chav and prefer American food to German.
The German influence has been immense in the USA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language_in_the_United_States
The Black Adder
10-05-2016, 08:20
Its a belt drive, or idler from Audiosilente called the GIRADISCHI BLACKSTONE, price 36000 Euros :eek:
http://www.audiosilente.com/blackstone.html
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2014/08/audiosilente-blackstone-idler-drive.html
No freaking way... You have got to be pulling my aunties leg... THAT is a Thorens TD124 in a different body... everything is the same, even the strobe is in the same bloody place and even the bearing looks the same. A 36000 Euro TT fitted with a crappy elastic band idler too... wtf! Me thinks someone is taking the piddle.
Right... my TD124 is going on ebay for 36000 Euros...
walpurgis
10-05-2016, 09:07
No freaking way... You have got to be pulling my aunties leg... THAT is a Thorens TD124 in a different body... everything is the same, even the strobe is in the same bloody place and even the bearing looks the same. A 36000 Euro TT fitted with a crappy elastic band idler too... wtf! Me thinks someone is taking the piddle.
Right... my TD124 is going on ebay for 36000 Euros...
I'm sure it's very nice Jo. But the money buys two half decent cars with a lot more engineering in them. (yes. I know it's a bespoke product with a limited market)
Lol - you're a daftee! You should defo go, as it's a league apart from anything done in the UK, and you can turn it into a little holiday. I think you'd love it, and yes, the beer (and proper German food) is superb :barrel:
Marco.
This is without doubt correct. Jerry needs to hear MBL 101E Xtreme, in the same way I need to hear Apogee Grands or Full Range at Henk's in the Netherlands.
My next house will have a room capable of housing either of those Apogees - TBH Full Range to my re-build spec is the one I feel I'd go for.
It'll probably never happen but hey... you never know.
http://www.my-hiend.com/leoyeh2/2016a/SGH_2294mm.jpg
Insanity factor stratospheric.
The Black Adder
10-05-2016, 09:38
LOL.. boinkers.
daytona600
10-05-2016, 12:05
Kharma , Kondo , Silbatone & Wolf all sounding great this year
Sibatone using 1924 Western Electric 11a horns with 100 years old + valves VT1 & VT2 beyound ultra rare
lots of tape & turntable only rooms & almost no CD players at all just streamers
lots of mad valve amps on show & even madder turntables
lots of new streamers , Wifi , bluetooth systems
popped into the B&O room with new active flagship speakers with about a kilowatt of amps inside
DJ walked in & asked for the router password & streamed some very loud Techno direct from his phone in less than a minute
No freaking way... You have got to be pulling my aunties leg... THAT is a Thorens TD124 in a different body... everything is the same, even the strobe is in the same bloody place and even the bearing looks the same. A 36000 Euro TT fitted with a crappy elastic band idler too... wtf! Me thinks someone is taking the piddle.
Right... my TD124 is going on ebay for 36000 Euros...
More I reckon. Build a better copy tomorrow.
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