Problems with mission 774 tone arm

[vinyljunky]

Had al mad moon around my gaff Wednesday gone.My vinyl reproduction sounded like it would if you had a really dirty stylus he brought his scales around( mine got nicked and I haven't replaced them yet).Anyhow we checked the tracking force the Zyx yatra tracks between 1.5 to 2.5 the tracking was at 1.7 so we upped it to 2.1 revelation the fuzzyness gone clear coherent sound now today I've got the same fuzzy muddied sound back again I wonder if I have a problem with the counter weight moving because without checking I wonder if the tracking force is back to were it was:scratch: ps or have I got a problem elsewhere

[karma67]

check the stylus isn't covered in sh*t first.

[vinyljunky]

Haven't got a magnifying glass but the stylus seems clean enough

[karma67]

just a thought,maybe mark the counter weight and see if it moves when being used.

[vinyljunky]

I'll borrow my mates scales set the tracking force then mark the counter weight what would be the reason for a counter weight moving on this arm real head scatcher :steam:

[karma67]

i dont know to be honest,when i had mine it was fairly tight to turn.are all fixing bolts tight for the arm tube?

[vinyljunky]

Yeah everything seems tight the gel like material in the centre of the counter weight does not seem very stable hifi can make you wanna blow your brains out gonna take up bog snorkelling instead:mental:

[walpurgis]

Do not overtighten the clamping screw that holds the arm tube. The clamp section is a white metal alloy that can break.

Have you checked that the fine wires leading away from the arm to the mini plug/socket at the back are not pulling? They should be lightly coiled.

Is the bias/anti skate set right? If you are tracking at around 2g, you may need one bias weight quite far out on the small shaft or two further in.

VTA is very important with ZYX MCs, try raising and lowering the arm a bit.

Are you using damping fluid. It is beneficial with many MCs. I use it with my ZYXs.

Ensure that the lead tags on the cartridge pins are firmly fitted. A poor contact can make funny noises.

The counterweight is unlikely to move, unless you move it.

[vinyljunky]

Will check the vta wires seem tight on headshell :scratch:

[vinyljunky]

Checked the tracking force bang on 2.5 so cleaned the stylus another couple of times hey presto sexy sound back thing is this yatra seems to collect fluff like it's going out of fashion so now looking for a really good stylus cleaner happy days was nearly considering selling the deck taken the fuse out of the Semtex under the deck it's not going boom now:gig:

[struth]

what you cleaning the records with?

[vinyljunky]

Grant with some funky cleaner I got from my local record store and a micro fibre cloth I had a goldring 2300 on a rega rp6 and it didn't seem to atract the shit like this yatra does:scratch:

[walpurgis]

this yatra seems to collect fluff like it's going out of fashion

I've not had any problems with ZYXs picking up excess fluff or dirt.

[vinyljunky]

Geoff it must be the way I'm cleaning the stylus looking for a good stylus cleaner

[struth]

Tbh, cleaning the records with a vacuum cleaner and good brush n fluid will solve your problems. |If any pals near you have one, then take some records round for a clean, or maybe a shop closebye will do it. well worth it. Not a heap thing to set up, but if serious about vinyl then the sooner the better. Had a Sinatra record on today and it popped twice on same track...I was horrified and it was promptly cleaned and put back on... No Pops now lol

[walpurgis]

Geoff it must be the way I'm cleaning the stylus looking for a good stylus cleaner

Apart from lightly brushing off any occasional fluff, I don't clean my styli (or records).

[torstoi]

I've had this issue with my Yatra too,
mine seems to be a dirt collector and it's really baked to the tip, so cleaning off to get the diamond shiny like glass again takes quite a bit of effort, care, a juweller's magnifier, small carbon brush & careful use of cleaning fluid.
Got a cheap jeweller's magifying glass for like 2 bucks from a big electronic store & that does perfectly. ebay will sort you out no doubt the same.
Also have an Audio Technica oscillating cleaner I use inbetween,
but my experience with the Zyx is I have to remove it from time to time to give it a fluid supported & entire clean up with magified sight.
Otherwise I don't get the baked dirt off by just occational oscillating carbon brushes entirely and the sound slowly degrades to much less than the Zyx is capable of.

Does the Zyx go well in a 744 ?
I'd like to get a 744 for a DM101 I have no arm for, yet....and if the Zyx works well in the Mission, that would be nice to try.

edit: VTA important with Zyx is my finding also..by listening I thought mine preferred a minimal amount of nose down to exactly level
& nose up was really bad as far as I remember.

[walpurgis]

Did you mean 774 Torsten?

I have a Yatra in a 774 and it works very well using a little fluid damping. (I'm referring to the original 774, not the LC or SM)

It's also a very good arm for use with Decca Londons.

[torstoi]

my bad ! yes, the 774 excuse me. :)
Yes, I'd like the original one.

No xp with any Decca yet, but as I have the Zyx already, that'll be fine to get the deck spinning first off.

[struth]

maybe the stylus digs deep? . cleaning with fluids and without suction will in my experience probably make matters worse.

[torstoi]

My impression too the stylus digs deep.

You're right and Zyx obviously recommends against using fluid cleaners, but rather Zero Dust and such (I have as well)
Just I made the experience I don't really get the tip clean without, so being aware I don't want cleaner going up the cantlever pipe
I use it VERY carefully, very little...one by one, clean, brush...control & so on,, like at least 5-7 times till I have a satisfying result and shiny tip.

I'm aware I'm acting at my own risk, but see no real alternative honestly.
For best sonic performance the dirt has to come off somehow..

[walpurgis]

maybe the stylus digs deep?

Here's a photo of the ZYX R50 Bloom stylus.

http://i67.tinypic.com/14ac86.jpg

I believe the R100 series including the Yatra use a similar micro ridge compound profile line contact type.

[walpurgis]

I don't want cleaner going up the cantlever pipe.

You can't get fluid 'up the cantilever pipe' on the R100 H2 and Yatra. They use boron rods.

However, I don't use fluids to clean styli, as there's no way of knowing what effect they may have on the adhesive bonding the diamond tip.

[torstoi]

Fair point, especially if you have a RCM which helps a lot.
I also don't know what effect the fluid has on the adhesive bonding, so as I said, I'm aware it's at my risk using Lyra fluid,
which apart from the matter in particular has a good reputation.

I stand corrected...didn't know it was a rod, I guessed it was a boron pipe as some Technics MCs have them.

[walpurgis]

I guessed it was a boron pipe as some Technics MCs have them.

Yes. If I recall correctly, my Technics EPC-305MC had a Boron tube.

[Clive197]

You can't get fluid 'up the cantilever pipe' on the R100 H2 and Yatra. They use boron rods.



I thought capillary action would be the same irrespective of material used for the cantilever.

I had the same problem with gunk recently on my Cadenza Black and had to work at cleaning it for some time. I used AT607 stylus cleaner by dropping a few spots onto a carbon fibre brush and repeating this 5-6 times. Stylus now gunk free and shiny.

[walpurgis]

I thought capillary action would be the same irrespective of material used for the cantilever.

With a tube, but we are referring to Boron rods.

[karma67]

I thought capillary action would be the same irrespective of material used for the cantilever.

I had the same problem with gunk recently on my Cadenza Black and had to work at cleaning it for some time. I used AT607 stylus cleaner by dropping a few spots onto a carbon fibre brush and repeating this 5-6 times. Stylus now gunk free and shiny.

I had the same with my nagaoka mp500, it's cleaned with fluid they recommend and carbon fibre brush now

[Clive197]

With a tube, but we are referring to Boron rods.

I appreciate the difference but I always understood that capillary action can be a issue inside a tube or outside a rod. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[torstoi]

Capillar means it only works inside a tight enclosure.
Capillar force can make liquids go upwards against gravity even.
That does not work outside a rod or any element without a tight gap in some way.

[torstoi]

Capillar means it only works inside a tight enclosure.
Capillar force can make liquids go upwards against gravity even.
That does not work outside a rod or any element without a tight gap in some way.

[walpurgis]

I think Clive may be referring to the way surface tension can make liquids rise slightly up surfaces.

[Clive197]

I think Clive may be referring to the way surface tension can make liquids rise slightly up surfaces.

Thank you that man. I read somewhere that you should not use too much fluid on a stylus because the solution can make its way up the cantilever and damage the rubber at the top end.

[torstoi]

Agreed on both.. & I kind of knew what Clive was aiming at.

For sure if the fluid made it all the way up the cantilever, that'll be be by far too much fluid applied in first place, but practically is not easy to archieve, too.
Drowning the cart in fluid is no good idea anyway &
thus if someone chooses to use a fluid,
I would take the cart out from the tonearm, handling precision and sight is much better, use a jeweller's magnifier &
I try to apply only so much ideally that the dirt on the tip just soaks up a bit of the fluid & then brush
& repeat with a certain patience till the tip is clean.

Also I rather dive the diamond tip into the fluided brush to get the tip just contaminated by fluid
rather then sort of apply a drop of fluid onto the tip.