View Full Version : Getting the best sound quality from a Raspberry Pi
I have covered software in another thread, but what improvements can be made to the RPI to improve SQ
As this thread is a little cold, I will throw in what I think on the topic for discussion. I am not claiming to be particularly knowledgeable in this, and please remember we are solely discussing absolute sound quality.
1. The biggest issue with the RPI is the 5 volt power supply. This is typically a cheap switching device (noisy) and should be replaced with the best linear power supply you can afford.
2. No devices attached to the RPI should make use of the 5 volt supply. That means external hard drives and DACs etc should have their own power supplies.
3. Cables attaching the hard drive and DAC should have their 5 volt wires internal wires disconnected. In the case of the DAC it should be a sophisticated cable constructed without 5 volt internal wires. From the RPI onwards all cables matter.
4. Music should not be streamed by Wi-Fi but hard wired to devices like hard drives, SSDs and NAS. If practical these devices should be close by, to enable short cable runs.
5. RPI models with no Wi-Fi built in are preferred to those that do. (thanks Rikardo 1979)
6. If you must use Wi-Fi say to control the RPI remotely then use a USB extension cable to move the WI Fi dongle away from the RPI (thanks Rikardo 1979)
7. Find the best software for SQ - this may mean selecting software that sacrifices functionality such as streaming music or movies from the Internet. See other thread on software http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?44464-Sound-quality-of-streaming-software-for-Raspberry-Pi
8. I have no idea if putting the RPI in a more sophisticated box (say wooden) helps SQ :)
Strangely quiet ?
Am I the only one thinking that in a Audiophile system one should be looking to extract the last once of sound quality from the source.
No. But you can defo do better than an RPI if funds allow.
jollyfix
21-04-2016, 08:27
No. But you can defo do better than an RPI if funds allow.
:popcorn: Tell us more Justin...
The Black Adder
21-04-2016, 08:40
As this thread is a little cold, I will throw in what I think on the topic for discussion. I am not claiming to be particularly knowledgeable in this, and please remember we are solely discussing absolute sound quality.
1. The biggest issue with the RPI is the 5 volt power supply. This is typically a cheap switching device (noisy) and should be replaced with the best linear power supply you can afford.
2. No devices attached to the RPI should make use of the 5 volt supply. That means external hard drives and DACs etc should have their own power supplies.
3. Cables attaching the hard drive and DAC should have their 5 volt wires internal wires disconnected. In the case of the DAC it should be a sophisticated cable constructed without 5 volt internal wires. From the RPI onwards all cables matter.
4. Music should not be streamed by Wi-Fi but hard wired to devices like hard drives, SSDs and NAS. If practical these devices should be close by, to enable short cable runs.
5. RPI models with no Wi-Fi built in are preferred to those that do. (thanks Rikardo 1979)
6. If you must use Wi-Fi say to control the RPI remotely then use a USB extension cable to move the WI Fi dongle away from the RPI (thanks Rikardo 1979)
7. Find the best software for SQ - this may mean selecting software that sacrifices functionality such as streaming music or movies from the Internet. See other thread on software http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?44464-Sound-quality-of-streaming-software-for-Raspberry-Pi
8. I have no idea if putting the RPI in a more sophisticated box (say wooden) helps SQ :)
Points 3 and 6 look interesting. Not heard of these before so. A linky to where they have been discussed would be good.
Regarding No. 3. - What is the reasoning behind this? I use a powered USB drive with mine so is it still best to disconnect the 5v wires in the cable?
And No. 6 - Again, what is the reasoning behind this? Will any length of cable do?
Thanks
The Black Adder
21-04-2016, 08:45
No. But you can defo do better than an RPI if funds allow.
If funds allow I'm sure that will be the case... but funds would need to be quite substantial I take it.
The RPI for me (and others I know) has been bloody brilliant so far and for the money it's slaps a wet fish in the face of plenty of expensive spinners in regards to SQ.
Stratmangler
21-04-2016, 09:31
Points 3 and 6 look interesting. Not heard of these before so. A linky to where they have been discussed would be good.
Regarding No. 3. - What is the reasoning behind this? I use a powered USB drive with mine so is it still best to disconnect the 5v wires in the cable?
And No. 6 - Again, what is the reasoning behind this? Will any length of cable do?
Thanks
Your USB HDD will not have its power legs connected on the USB connection. It's a non problem.
On point 6 I'm not sure what the OP is on about - it looks to me like he's on about connecting the Pi wirelessly, yet mentions controlling the Pi remotely from a wireless device.
Some clarification is required.
With respect to a NAS being the repository for the files, if it's connected to the network then it doesn't make a blind bit of difference whether it's sat next to the Pi or if it's in a cupboard under the stairs.
If the NAS is sat next to the Pi it's likely to be annoying because of disk activity noise.
I use wired connections wherever possible because they're more dependable than wireless connections, and generally have greater bandwidth.
No. But you can defo do better than an RPI if funds allow.
I too would like to hear what you think is better than an RPI. :)
Points 3 and 6 look interesting. Not heard of these before so. A linky to where they have been discussed would be good.
Regarding No. 3. - What is the reasoning behind this? I use a powered USB drive with mine so is it still best to disconnect the 5v wires in the cable?
And No. 6 - Again, what is the reasoning behind this? Will any length of cable do?
Thanks
Please remember I am no authority on this, but are throwing these things up for debate
Anything that has potential to disturb the 5v supply running the RPI itself is top be avoided. Just reading around the topic will quickly show that the DAC should be self powered and that the best interconnects can be constrcted without the need to carry the additional 5v power. I think the hard drive interconnect is much less critical, but its an easy job to lift the 5v link in the end of the cable, so why not do it to be sure.
Regarding the wi fi dongle - anything that has the potential to disturb the well-being inside the RPI should be tried. It looks a simple and quick idea to move the dongle away from the main box. With radio signals the inverse square law applies so a lot of benefit will result from 0.5 to 1m cables.
Your USB HDD will not have its power legs connected on the USB connection. It's a non problem.
On point 6 I'm not sure what the OP is on about - it looks to me like he's on about connecting the Pi wirelessly, yet mentions controlling the Pi remotely from a wireless device.
Some clarification is required.
With respect to a NAS being the repository for the files, if it's connected to the network then it doesn't make a blind bit of difference whether it's sat next to the Pi or if it's in a cupboard under the stairs.
If the NAS is sat next to the Pi it's likely to be annoying because of disk activity noise.
I use wired connections wherever possible because they're more dependable than wireless connections, and generally have greater bandwidth.
I think I agree with you about no need to sever the redundant 5v from a powered HDD, (read above) that's why I put it up for discussion.
Sorry if I was not clear about Wi-Fi. Its seems from discussions with a number of people that a hard wired stream from say a HDD is better that using wi-fi to bring in the music. A wi fi dongle to talk just to the RPI may be a necessary evil if you want to control the system remotely
Stratmangler
21-04-2016, 13:37
I think I agree with you about no need to sever the redundant 5v from a powered HDD, (read above) that's why I put it up for discussion.
Sorry if I was not clear about Wi-Fi. Its seems from discussions with a number of people that a hard wired stream from say a HDD is better that using wi-fi to bring in the music. A wi fi dongle to talk just to the RPI may be a necessary evil if you want to control the system remotely
You're still not clear about the WiFi, but I can clarify one thing.
If your Pi is connected to your LAN via ethernet you do not need a WiFi dongle to communicate with the Pi to control the system remotely.
You do need to know the IP address of the Pi, but armed with that knowledge you should be able to control the device using a web browser or proprietory interface on any computer device on your network, be they wired or wireless.
This business about direct connection between Pi and HDD - you're better off using a powered HDD, as the power legs of the USB cable are redundant.
You still have the potential issue of HDD activity noise, but this will vary from HDD to HDD.
It's probably better to have a remotely sited NAS somewhere on the network, but not in the main listening area.
hughandella
21-04-2016, 21:36
No. But you can defo do better than an RPI if funds allow.
Can you clear your inbox Justin ?
tks
chris
If you don't connect the host +5v (VBus) line to your self powered USB device the host may not be able to enumerate/ detect insertion or removal of that device.
What would be the consequences of that Neal as, now it has been shown to improve SQ, there are progressively more and more cables becoming available without the 5v wires included.
As I said the device may not be detected! More here: http://www.yourfinalsystem.com/cable-design-f-a-q/147-how-do-data-only-usb-cables-work
I would also challenge the notion that removing VBus has been shown to improve sound quality. Maybe in some cases with an exceptionally noisy VBus it has but if that is the case then there are bigger PSU issues to on the host device that need fixing first.
As I said the device may not be detected! More here: http://www.yourfinalsystem.com/cable-design-f-a-q/147-how-do-data-only-usb-cables-work
I would also challenge the notion that removing VBus has been shown to improve sound quality. Maybe in some cases with an exceptionally noisy VBus it has but if that is the case then there are bigger PSU issues to on the host device that need fixing first.
Thanks Neil
My understanding is, that to give optimum SQ, the RPI should have a the most stable 5v power supply it can get (this applies to most devices). Anything that adds an additional drain/disturbance to that 5v is to be avoided. I think this was a real issue with early versions of the RPI which would cut out if going to 5v 'overload'. Bear in mind these are all things I have read via internet 'experts'. I have no first hand knowledge.
Cable designers would know better about the consequences of carrying a voltage signal alongside the music stream.
I think there maybe some misunderstanding in what you have read? Certainly a clean 5v supply is not going to do any harm.
IME the RPi can benefit from a clean 5v supply if the DAC used is a top hat design for the RPi like the IQAudio as the supply is common and also if using a SPDIF top hat board. The RPi USB power issues where due to limited current delivery of the design and also, as I found out personally, some poorly specified wall wart PSUs and strangely poorly made power only USB leads.
If using a self powered HDD for your music files you may well find that VBus is required for the RPi to detect the drive. The drive will have a minimal power draw (as it is self powered) and should not impact on the performance of the RPi or in other words a clean 5v supply is not going to enhance the HDD capability of delivering data to the RPi.
VBus is not a signal and there is no 'music stream' on USB. It's a data stream carried over a differential signal pair and as long as the cable you use meets the USB spec. IE USB compliant you should not experience any issues. However, there are non compliant USB cables about and some fancy audiophile ones that have no published electrical specifications and I would be wary of any claims regarding superior sound quality.
If it is found that a USB cable does make a significant difference then I'd be looking at the DAC more closely and asking if the DAC was designed correctly in the first place. There are a number of DAC designs that use internal USB isolation and are immune to changes in cables.
All IMHO of course! Others may disagree ;)
A quickie...
...does anyone know if the Raspberry Pi 3 sounds better than the previous version (and if so -why)?
Thanks,
Bonky
rikardo1979
08-05-2016, 16:33
A quickie...
...does anyone know if the Raspberry Pi 3 sounds better than the previous version (and if so -why)?
Thanks,
Bonky
RPi 2 should be better as have no WiFi and BT on board
OP2
OK; thanks. The Rp2 is the one I have.
BW
Bonky
RPi 2 should be better as have no WiFi and BT on board
OP2
That's not a reason for it to sound worse... People should compare the two & I highly doubt there'll be any difference.
There were similar arguments with the Squeezebox Touch. To be honest I could not tell the difference between WiFi and LAN on that either.
I have run RPi1 via LAN (USB output) and RPi3 via LAN and WiFi (SPDIF output via Digi+). In both cases I stream from a NAS. I cannot detect a difference between WiFi and LAN. You can also disable the Bluetooth in the RPi3, if you so wish. The WiFi on the RPi3 is very solid (and more stable than a WiFi bridge I had previously in the same location).
I run picore player and the RPi3 is powered by Li ion battery, which I suspect makes the most difference of all, as it did with the SBT.
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