Any turntable thoughts you lot...?

[Haselsh1]

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab240/Haselsh1/0515CARB_zpslpyvzahc.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/Haselsh1/media/0515CARB_zpslpyvzahc.jpg.html)

Having owned sprung subchassis turntables and solid turntables I have come out in preference for the non sprung variety. Do any of you have any views of this turntable by Pro-Ject...? Are there any reliability issues that you know of...? How good is the tonearm...?

My partner Sue and I are currently in the middle of re-inventing our lives together including a move of house and location. This involves a substantial re-invention of the Hi-Fi.

Many thanks for any advice offered.

[daytona600]

very nice sounding deck indeed

Pro-Ject’s RPM 10 Carbon is a most impressive performer at its price, offering a sound that will amaze those people returning to the vinyl format, yet still impress veteran vinyl junkies” “It has a deep, dark, powerful character that goes straight to the music in the groove. This is doubtless down in large part to its virtually inaudible rumble, fine speed stability and good tonearm performance – all of which contribute to its authoritative mastertape-like sound.” Outstanding Product Sound 85% Hi-Fi News

[Audio Al]

Hi
I own a 10.1 with upgraded speed control and the ground it base unit , I am happy with the performance , no issues so far
Have used it with 304 Denon , Shelter 5000 and a Goldring Eroica L
My TT is dark Grey with a white platter :)

[vouk]

It is indeed a very good sounding deck; a friend has it and is very pleased with it. Looks really nice in the flesh as well.
I have always thought quite highly of their tonearms, they represent very good vfm and I've seen them handling some top notch (even exotic) cartridges.
And their products do have a very good reliability record.
-j.

[The Chronicals]

I've owned a few of the RPM tables, im currently with the RPM6.

Fantastic units, the only minor niggle I found with the earlier 9C tone arm is the separate aluminium head shell. I could never get it to be spirit level straight, and it annoyed me endlessly. I'd set everything with various protractors and spirit levels - soon as i wound the screw up on the bottom of the headshell it would go out of alignment. Same happened on my dads RPM5.

I now use a 9CC one piece carbon arm which is serving me wonderfully! but pricey at £500, and it looks like that one has the 9CC arm, so all good.

[sq225917]

Better speed stability exists for less.

[HackneyRF]

I couldn't comment on performance Shaun but aesthetically even though I'm not so fond of carbon it looks terrific. My wife says we can have one. ;)

[hifi_dave]

You can have a Nottingham Analogue for less money.

[Jimbo]

http://www.10audio.com/sites/default/files/field/image/VPI_Prime_b.jpg

[rdpx]

I fancy this one...

http://www.emporiumhifi.com/head-office-norfolk-suffolk/goldenote-bellavista-black-leather-ltd-edition-turntable/

With leather (it's a way of life)

R

[walpurgis]

I fancy this one...

http://www.emporiumhifi.com/head-office-norfolk-suffolk/goldenote-bellavista-black-leather-ltd-edition-turntable/

With leather (it's a way of life)

R


I'd be more inclined to buy something you can get parts for easily and will be able to continue getting parts for.

[YNWaN]

If the VPI pictured above is similar money I would expect it to be a strong choice.

[YNWaN]

Looking at the spec of this particular Project raises one concern with me that may, or may not, be relevant. Obviously extensive use is made of carbon fibre and a lot of it can be seen on the arm, chassis and the top of the base plate. However, the real technical advantage of CF, and why it is used in boats, planes and cars for example, is its very high stiffness to mass ratio. In the case of this deck that property is not being made use of(other than in the arm) and it just being used as cladding on the chassis to look cool (the chassis is actually made from MDF and steel pellets so quite a heavy item). You can tell from the CF weave that the chassis is just wrapped in CF as the pattern would be quite different at the sides if it were otherwise. This doesn't necessarily mean that the deck doesn't perform well but it does suggest that the inclusion of CF is just for looks rather than any mechanical advantage. The arm is a different matter and the arm tube does seem to make use of the actual mechanical properties of CF :).

[Haselsh1]

Looking at the spec of this particular Project raises one concern with me that may, or may not, be relevant. Obviously extensive use is made of carbon fibre and a lot of it can be seen on the arm, chassis and the top of the base plate. However, the real technical advantage of CF, and why it is used in boats, planes and cars for example, is its very high stiffness to mass ratio. In the case of this deck that property is not being made use of(other than in the arm) and it just being used as cladding on the chassis to look cool (the chassis is actually made from MDF and steel pellets so quite a heavy item). You can tell from the CF weave that the chassis is just wrapped in CF as the pattern would be quite different at the sides if it were otherwise. This doesn't necessarily mean that the deck doesn't perform well but it does suggest that the inclusion of CF is just for looks rather than any mechanical advantage. The arm is a different matter and the arm tube does seem to make use of the actual mechanical properties of CF :).

Yes Mark, if this thing were indeed solid worked carbon fibre it would be an awful lot more than just over £2k. The VPI would definitely be my choice but it is £4k. Not really very competitive. Of course £2.5k would buy me a Gyrodeck and an Origin Live arm but that of course is sprung.

[Jimbo]

Yes Mark, if this thing were indeed solid worked carbon fibre it would be an awful lot more than just over £2k. The VPI would definitely be my choice but it is £4k. Not really very competitive. Of course £2.5k would buy me a Gyrodeck and an Origin Live arm but that of course is sprung.

Hi Shaun, I think I could get you a VPI Prime for quite a bit less than 4K. I have heard this deck and it is stunning!

[Haselsh1]

Hi Shaun, I think I could get you a VPI Prime for quite a bit less than 4K. I have heard this deck and it is stunning!

OK James, I have only ever seen it advertised for £4,000 and of course that is before I have even factored in a decent MC and phono stage. I'll keep a look out for one but it would have to be brand new.

[Jimbo]

OK James, I have only ever seen it advertised for £4,000 and of course that is before I have even factored in a decent MC and phono stage. I'll keep a look out for one but it would have to be brand new.

I will find out just how much a new VPI Prime would cost you.

[vouk]

I'd be more inclined to buy something you can get parts for easily and will be able to continue getting parts for.


Bluenote (now Goldnote) products have been imported/distributed by Audioflair in the UK for some time now; you can also order any parts directly from the factory in Italy and, to the best of my knowledge, there are no issues with parts availability whatsoever.

[YNWaN]

As I wrote though, my concerns don't necessarily mean it doesn't sound OK and I do rather like the look of the carbon fibre. If the choice of a solid deck is for practical reasons then fair enough but personally I prefer suspended designs on sonic grounds.

[walpurgis]

You can have a Nottingham Analogue for less money.

Yeah. I love their products. If I wasn't already sorted, I'd definitely be taking a look in that direction.

[hifi_dave]

They are properly designed, practical, reliable, beautifully made and with no unnecessary bling.

[Haselsh1]

Yeah, back around 1997 I owned a Spacedeck/Spacearm and even got to chat with the man himself at his workshop. I guess if I was going to spend around £3k on a deck I would love a Hyperspace with Spacearm but that would mean keeping the current cartridge. Not a bad thought really

;)

[hifi_dave]

The Hyperspace is £2930 and is "where the magic begins" as Tom used to say.

[Haselsh1]

Here we go again you guys, just a thought, but...

My current TD160B MkII has recently been re-plinthed with a solid Maple variety which made a staggering difference to the overall level of detail. Would there really be any point in re-springing it and fitting a very costly Origin Live tonearm...? Then fitting to the OL a mid priced Dynavector DV20L...?

Like I said, just a thought.

[sq225917]

Dv20l is a bit meh.

[struth]

Here we go again you guys, just a thought, but...

My current TD160B MkII has recently been re-plinthed with a solid Maple variety which made a staggering difference to the overall level of detail. Would there really be any point in re-springing it and fitting a very costly Origin Live tonearm...? Then fitting to the OL a mid priced Dynavector DV20L...?

Like I said, just a thought.

you could probably use the money wiser Shaun imo. There is a limit to how good a td160 will get, and where you are now its probably fairly high up. Would be inclined to go with some of the other options. Quite fancy a Notts myself but way out of my league. Would like to hear the lenco in PE as well.

[walpurgis]

Nothing wrong with what you have Shaun. The TD160 is very decent and the LV-V is pretty capable. Spend the money on a nice low output MC or Decca and get a good phono stage to match. I reckon you'll stop pondering over the TT then mate.

[Audio Advent]

Yes Mark, if this thing were indeed solid worked carbon fibre it would be an awful lot more than just over £2k.


Solid carbon fibre wouldn't be using its beneficial properties either, unless it was some kind of composite internally - easier and cheaper to fill with MDF than solid carbon fibre to probably similar effect.

[Audio Advent]

What is the lifestyle re-boot though and how does it match up with a new turntable?

Is it just that you want something, anything new to try or that you want something in a particular style/feel (so perhaps moving away from so much of the vintage, traditional turntable idea)?

[DSJR]

Here we go again you guys, just a thought, but...

My current TD160B MkII has recently been re-plinthed with a solid Maple variety which made a staggering difference to the overall level of detail. Would there really be any point in re-springing it and fitting a very costly Origin Live tonearm...? Then fitting to the OL a mid priced Dynavector DV20L...?

Like I said, just a thought.


No point at all - sorry... And I don't mean to be pithy or negative.. The 160 has a ceiling, beyond which I don't believe you can take it. Enjoy it for the beautifully restored item that it is.

I'm not a fan of OL tonearms I'm afraid as my idea for a high end tonearm is to make it as inert as possible, not to add resonances to make it sound more 'exciting' - in my opinion...

DV20? have you seen the cost of Dynavectors these days? Bloomin' ridiculous for the quality offered.

I have to say that, looking at the decks pictured in earlier posts, appearance is all and sod what's inside as you cannot see it. The NAS AceSpace would I'm sure give any of these a good run for their money and the Hyperspace is a refinement above imo, but they just don't LOOK flash enough and lack the shiny polished platters and stick-on carbon-fibre trimmings that make them look so self important. Sorry, but Tom Fletcher LISTENED to his finely engineered designs and where the important bits are concerned, like the main bearings, he made them to last decades - My old Mentor is now thirty years old and the chap who bought it from me in the mid 90's still had it a few years ago and the bearing was still perfect - this with a platter weighing thirty odd kilos!!! Trouble is, it looked like a Rega on steroids, all in black with the all important graphite top platter sitting on dull aluminium spacer discs, but it sounded amazing in a totally non-invasive way.

[IslandPink]

Does the Hyperspace really cost £2930 now ?
Wow - I bought mine for about £1600 about 6 years ago.
More plugging for NA here - I was sold on graphite or similar materials under the record after I tried a Boston graphite mat on the Garrard 401.
The only thing I'll say is the Nottingham decks despite their mass still benefit a lot from another form of motor with more direct drive - I use the Verus motor pod from Teres - this way the bass sounds more like an idler-drive. Not sure if the Project can do anything clever, but as it's belt drive , well .... same problem. Depends what sort of music you really want to sound good, in that case.

[DSJR]

£1600 for a Hyperspace is more TWENTY years ago sir! A pal owned one which was stolen and had to be replaced in 1997 or thereabouts. When I first visited hifi Dave in his current place in 2009 or so, the Hyperspace was around £2500 I vaguely remember and the current Dias was around £3500 I think.

Not sure about direct driving that heavy platter as the inertia should see off the fully motor decoupled silicone belt drive vagaries. I did try a Wave Mechanic with one once and liked what it did. A shame it's so expensive.

[karma67]

dave how does the space deck compare to the lp12?

[Audio Advent]

dave how does the space deck compare to the lp12?

Out of this world!

:rofl: Ahh.. " Out of this world! " hahahahaha

[YNWaN]

I've experimented with graphite as both a platter and mat material (I designed and had built a number of different mats). Unfortunately I wasn't convinced at the time but I remain open to persuasion.

As ever I have loads of opinions in this area but I've probably stirred up enough of a hornets nest on the Pink advert thread for now.

[PaulStewart]

Hi Shaun,

I just saw this thread, take at THIS (http://www.artaudio.co.uk/?page_id=31) it's the best deck I've owned and I've had some stunners. If you are interested, I can get you a good price on one.

[hifi_dave]

dave how does the space deck compare to the lp12?

Back in the day when we were Linn dealers, we used to sell the Notts Space Deck against the LP12. That was a no-brainer.

[IslandPink]

£1600 for a Hyperspace is more TWENTY years ago sir! A pal owned one which was stolen and had to be replaced in 1997 or thereabouts. When I first visited hifi Dave in his current place in 2009 or so, the Hyperspace was around £2500 I vaguely remember and the current Dias was around £3500 I think.

Not sure about direct driving that heavy platter as the inertia should see off the fully motor decoupled silicone belt drive vagaries. I did try a Wave Mechanic with one once and liked what it did. A shame it's so expensive.

I'm starting to remember I may have got the Hyperspace ex-demo which would account for the price of £1600. It was definitely around 2009.

The theory would suggest the 13kG platter would have more than enough inertia to keep things tight on bass and timing but when I tried out the Verus, then invited my local audio-buddy to come and hear the comparison from the Nottingham motor to the Verus, it took him about 5 seconds before he said "God, it's night and day isn't it? " . I also demoed the same comparison to a friend of mine from London who works at NPL and he was stunned about the implications : he left toying with the idea of mini research project trying to measure the rotational stability fluctuations caused by the stylus in the two cases.

[Audio Advent]

Hi Shaun,

I just saw this thread, take at THIS (http://www.artaudio.co.uk/?page_id=31) it's the best deck I've owned and I've had some stunners. If you are interested, I can get you a good price on one.

Good old two-motor design - works well on Alphason decks.

[Haselsh1]

Good old two-motor design - works well on Alphason decks.

Yeah, I had a Sonata back in the nineties and it was fantastic. Fitted with an HR100SMCS and a Kiseki Blue.

[Frazeur1]

I have been thinking of giving this deck a try, fairly inexpensive, and I already have a new Nagaoka MP-110 to throw on it:

http://www.opera-consonance.com/products/analog/LP6.3.htm

Not sure how they can call the tonearm a unipivot though....

[walpurgis]

I don't know it, but it looks interesting. From the description, I guess the arm unipivot has a steel point that bears into a downward facing conical brass cup. Not sure how a short platter spindle equates a low centre of gravity though, as if it really matters. They say the spindle is 'housed in a housing', odd terminology. I reckon they didn't read it through. If the dollar price converts to something around the £ price, as is likely. It will not be the only option at that money.

[Frazeur1]

It is $995 new in US money. Typically I like old school designs with proper plinth and all, but this thing has gotten some good remarks here and there, maybe not a lot, but appears interesting. I may have to take a little road trip and take a listen to it. Obviously buying something used can get more for the buck too.

[Haselsh1]

Yes, I see that the tonearm in the link uses horizontal and vertical bearings. That is not a unipivot...! Looks like a nice deck though. It would look nice sat on my now spare Pro-Ject plinth.

[YNWaN]

As Shaun says, this arm is not a unipivot, it doesn't look like it is (you can see the lateral bearings) and (weirdly) the manufacturers description, immediately after saying it is a unipivot, clearly goes on to describe a completely different bearing configuration - being generous I blame translation issues :).

[Haselsh1]

It must be Chinese...

:lol: