View Full Version : Music streaming boosts sales of vinyl
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36027867
Interesting article, stats, and video... Here's the thing: does it matter if youngsters today buying vinyl actually play it or not?
My view is no, simply because they're getting the tangible/tactile experience that they want (whether admiring the records on their wall as a piece of art) or holding them and reading the sleeves whilst listening to a download, which is fine. Most importantly, by buying records themselves, they're feeding the current vinyl resurgence, which helps keep it alive - and that's absolutely fine in my book! :)
Views please, ladies and gents?
Marco.
P.S I'd bet that if student Jordan Katende was given a record player for his birthday or Christmas (any kind of record player, simply to get him into the process of listening to records), he'd become hooked quite quickly, and would no longer see records as simply 'cool things to put on your wall'... ;)
Audio Advent
14-04-2016, 13:05
It has also been shown that music piracy does the same - they buy more physical copies than people who don't download pirate material, in general.
It's the new model of the music business - give the music away for very cheap to an audience millions of times larger than you would reach by restricting it, and then find the small percentage of that audience who want to support your music by buying physical copies, going to gigs, even crowd funding new albums and vinyl runs.
What you need is for the streaming services to advertise your physical releases, especially collectable ones, short vinyl or cassette runs.
MarginWalker
14-04-2016, 13:06
meh, i'd rather they listen to it as i'd like the vinyl resurgence to be a longstanding one rather than see it fade away over the next few years. That said it doesn't bother me if someone wants to buy a record and only use the download code, at least that way they are getting something tangible for their money which they may listen to at a later date if they catch the bug, or sell on if they dont. As long as hard to find records are being reissued,new ones being produced and record shops are staying open then I am happy.
skimminstones
14-04-2016, 13:23
Never thought any upsurge in vinyl will be sustained to be honest. At the moment for younger people its a fad, something new and can be seen to be a hipster going retro. But once they get bored with getting up to change the record every 20 mins, not being able to just click next or shuffle, start getting scratches etc.... it will die down again.
Audio Al
14-04-2016, 13:28
You have zero interaction with file base noise , But lots with LP's that have the full sound and interaction factor :eyebrows:
Just my opinion , other will disagree ;)
StanleyB
14-04-2016, 13:39
As someone pointed out to me quite recently. Music and porn have a lot in common. You can stream both, or you can get the physical medium for a more rewarding experience. And both come in a variety of styles.
"I have vinyls in my room but it's more for decor. I don't actually play them," Jordan Katende, a student in Manchester, told BBC News.
No.
I'm sorry, but no.
Music streaming boosts sales of vinyl (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36027867?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook)
The "7% have no TT" statistic is quite baffling really.
http://s19.postimg.org/m7z5dyxlf/89212649_people_who_buy_vinyl_624pie.png
sq225917
14-04-2016, 16:28
I always wondered why I thought jazz was wank, now I know.
my wife is a fan of "ragtime"....i hate it!!!
NIGE.
Dunno.. re the claimed revival.
I have a modest ( couple/three ~ hundred) Lps aquired over 40 yrs.
Recently went to buy /try a New LP.
But the shops are typically wanting ~40$ each.
Won't be many or likely Any at that price.
40 dollars is excessive. Online the are about 15/20 gdp inc postage... Amazon and ebay may be better than a shop.. Amazon ofter let you hear tracks. Off the download section of a vinyl..if i like i may go and get said record at best price.
From that link..
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii52/micared/image.jpg1_zpsmqvkgdoz.jpg
This did surprise me! Also using the term "vinyls" :steam:
I have a friend in New Brunswick that even after postage it's still cheaper for me to send a LP over to him than him buy over there.
40 dollars is excessive...
Uhh yeah! exactly My view.
Not unique though..Same prices at 3 'record' shops.
This Saturday is 'Record day' a moderately advertised annual event.
Where the rascals release newest recordings and take 1$ off their prices.
Won't be attending .. this year.
Shame that.. as I'm cobbling together a 'le Pacific' phono stage to better enjoy my vinyl.
Will have to, as you suggest, look at 'better' LP sources.
Interesting Age spread diagram..
My son's lady friend is interested in my old, bought new, Dual TT and Sherwood receiver. Which she is more than welcome to.
Audio Advent
14-04-2016, 20:50
As someone pointed out to me quite recently. Music and porn have a lot in common. You can stream both, or you can get the physical medium for a more rewarding experience. And both come in a variety of styles.
Exactly - those old VHS copies are a much more rewarding experience!
It isn't and has never been about 'VINYL'. It's 'RECORDS'.
The media fascination with 'vinyl' is weird - I think it's because those people who run these stories grew up with records in their youth and basically stopped listening and buying music in their twenties. Now in their forties/fifties they find it strange that people still listen and buy music - they gave up years ago. Hence Radio 5 yesterday asking people what the first record they bought was and then playing a snippet from it - basically acting like a music station of which there are hundreds.
It's just that some of us have never stopped listening and buying ;) For example here - http://www.recordplanet.nl/index.php?page=platenbeurs. Anyone going?:cool:
Beobloke
15-04-2016, 09:37
As I've said elsewhere, I think this is a good thing. When the hipsters move onto their next fad then we will be left with a good supply of mint second-hand vinyl. However, if they tried to play it, it would probably end up covered in fingerprints and largely destroyed by the inevitable Crosley record players that they would undoubtedly use to play it on!
StanleyB
15-04-2016, 09:42
It isn't and has never been about 'VINYL'. It's 'RECORDS'.
I would like to disagree with you. It is about the format. In this case vinyl.
That's a very good point, Stan. "Records" isn't a format. Language needs to be used that conveys the format, not the physical media which the music is stored on, hence 'vinyl' :)
Marco.
I wonder if the vinyl revival is symptomatic of a wider trend? What will be next? A brick size cellphone revival? Kettles that need an external heat source to boil? Cars that need cranking to start?
Or retro food? Will we see a revival in the mass-consumption of offal? Retro hipsters will surely take to that staple of my youth, tongue sandwiches. With a bit of Picallili, of course.
Oh yes please ;) and maybe square goes only while holding an 8lb baby boy in the old Highland way:D
Lol.. You'll have to explain that one! :scratch:
Marco.
walpurgis
15-04-2016, 13:37
Well I've dug out the phonograph and it's now firing on all cylinders!
StanleyB
15-04-2016, 13:46
Well I've dug out the phonograph and it's now firing on all cylinders!
Ai, the ol' woodburners. I remember them well :D.
Lol.. You'll have to explain that one! :scratch:
Marco.
Twas a blackadder quote...
Ali Tait
15-04-2016, 14:12
Not really a fad I don't think, vinyl sales have been increasing for the last eight years. Not really bothered whose buying it and for what reason, if the demand is there and it keeps production flowing, that can only be a good thing for us lot.
Twas a blackadder quote...
Ah, I see... I liked Blackadder, and watched a few episodes, but not enough of a fan of the series to remember any individual quotes! :)
Marco.
Not really a fad I don't think, vinyl sales have been increasing for the last eight years. Not really bothered whose buying it and for what reason, if the demand is there and it keeps production flowing, that can only be a good thing for us lot.
+1 on all counts. It's definitely not a fad, as there are various facets to the current resurgence in record sales - and it's not all to do with the whims of 'hipsters' either; it runs much deeper than that, at a fundamental level, and people realising that 'vinyl' has much to offer in various different ways, not simply as a music carrier.
The fact that it never died a death, as was predicted in the 1980s, and has continually remained alive, is proof positive, for me, that it 'connects' on various levels with the human psyche, and in a way that CD hasn't managed to the same degree. That is why, sooner rather than later, it is CD that will eventually go the way of the dodo, not 'vinyl', as like it or not, we're all slaves to our emotional responses...
Marco.
StanleyB
15-04-2016, 15:12
I wouldn't write CD off just yet. The more I have been listening to CD lately, the more I come to realize that I get a better signal to noise ratio from my CDP as a transport, than I get from my PC. And as far as detail and dynamic range is concerned: it's all there. Ideas such as MQA etc. are there just to make streaming sound as good as CD.
Sure, Stan, but in terms of its longevity as a commercial carrier of music for the masses, I feel that it's on borrowed time - and has been for a while.
This is simply because CD is floating in a 'no man's land', as folks wanting to hear their music digitally embrace streaming and downloads, and those who value the sound quality and/or tactility of records, are rediscovering (or discovering for the first time) the joys of analogue - and it's precisely because of that, and CD now lacking its own defined niche within the current marketplace, which will act as its final death knell.
There'll still be plenty of action in the second-hand CD market, though, for some years to come! :)
Marco.
walpurgis
15-04-2016, 15:35
CD won't be disappearing from my system in the foreseeable future. I get great sound quality from mine.
Same here, but I'm talking about commercially, and in the eyes of the unwashed general public. Unfortunately, it's their buying habits, not ours, which will define the outcome.
Marco.
I agree CD does seem to fall between the convenience of streaming and the retro-analogue loveliness of vinyl. From the enthusiasts point of view, anyway. Whilst I am inclined to agree with Stan re the sound quality issue we are not talking about massive differences here, not enough to be a factor with most people.
Vinyl is really like an analogue watch. Digital watches keep better time, last longer without repair, are more robust, and cheaper. And they've been around 40 years. But Rolex and Patek are doing better than they ever have.
......... Ideas such as MQA etc. are there just to make streaming sound as good as CD.
At a much lower data rate though that's suitable for streaming, in fact that is only one part of what MQA is supposed to offer.
Vinyl is really like an analogue watch. Digital watches keep better time, last longer without repair, are more robust, and cheaper. And they've been around 40 years. But Rolex and Patek are doing better than they ever have.
Indeed, which proves that we humans are predisposed to liking owning 'nice things'... And there has never been anything especially 'nice' about a round piece of mass-produced plastic, stuck inside a plastic case, no matter how good it sounds! ;)
Marco.
You get some nice digital stuff to though. There is something that brings you closer to your roots when you use an old watch that is as satisfying to touch as to look at. Vinyl records and especially shellac does this for me.
StanleyB
15-04-2016, 17:49
The 1000 oldest watches in the world are all analogue no doubt. All the analogue watches I bought in the last 25 odd years are still working. The digital ones have long died through failure of some sort in the electronics.
I have about 10 American pocket watches that range from 60 to 130 years old. They all run, and most still keep pretty good time. True they need servicing soon i'd expect but they are marvellous things
As small digression:
the Digi Clock in my wife's Acura runs fast ..since new, a couple of minutes each month..which adds up.. annoyingly quickly.
Other owners claim theirs lose time. Few to none have accurate clocks.
Skilfully manufactured by Matsushita ( panasonic etc parent) Hard to believe that they bungled the crystal frequency, but they clearly have.
That is pretty bad. Possibly an issue with the electronics rather than the crystal? Anyway Acura is a cool car.
Vinyl is really like an analogue watch. Digital watches keep better time, last longer without repair, are more robust, and cheaper. And they've been around 40 years. But Rolex and Patek are doing better than they ever have.
For whatever reason, I find it hard to get excited about watches. I have a Mondaine watch, which is based on a Swiss railway clock design. It's easy to see the time, no date setting, stopwatch or any poncey stuff like that. It's the only watch I own. (Well, there's also a Rotary one in a drawer somewhere but that stopped working about 15 years ago. I only kept it because the strap was almost new and I thought it might be re-usable).
I'm not excited about them either, although I appreciate a good watch. It just seemed like an appropriate analogy. At the time ;)
I know you guys all get lathered up with articles like this, but record sales are still only 2.7% of the music market, that's pretty small and outside forums is hype driven by the industry, as it's music that's bought and not easily copied.
It would be great to see the rise continue, anything that produces additional revenue for an artist is good, but less than 3% of market share is not something I would be planning a future on. That's a precariously small margin for any manufacturer and it's still a very niche product, especially if only around 50% of those are actually playing it!
Pre RSD hype ;)
It's also a real shame I'll miss RSD this year, first time in ages I won't be getting up at daft o'clock to join the line outside my old local record shop, I used to love that :(
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Just in case somebody missed this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/36044609/record-store-day-this-is-what-happens-inside-a-vinyl-factory
Hi Tim,
I know you guys all get lathered up with articles like this, but record sales are still only 2.7% of the music market...
Yup... No-one's getting "lathered up" or saying that record sales are going to usurp downloads or CD sales overnight, but that there has been a steady rise in sales over the last eight years or so, and that's continuing to grow.
Certainly interest in vinyl records is at an all-time high, since the heyday of the 70s, and that's not liable to die anytime soon, which is a good thing, unless you consider it otherwise? ;)
Marco.
I think it's brilliant, I've brought more LPs in the last 12 months than anything else, but it's still miniscule in the great scheme of thing's. What those overall sales figures can't ever factor in is how much music is pirated, it would be interesting to see how that pie sliced up?
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If the trend for vinyl catches on with the upwardly mobile in India, China and Brazil that is a huge market. I get the impression it is limited to the West at the moment. But you never know.
Well Genjing records were the only Chinese pressers. They reckoned vinyl was being picked up quite well with Chinese bands and felt the market could become huge. Not been going a long time i think but as you say its a potentially massive market in both directions
I think it's brilliant, I've brought more LPs in the last 12 months than anything else, but it's still miniscule in the great scheme of thing's.
No-one's saying any differently, Timbo-baby, but the fact is, it's becoming less 'minuscule' everyday....
Check out GZ Media - based in a tiny village outside Prague in the Czech Republic, but are the world's largest producer of vinyl records! http://www.gzvinyl.com/About-GZ/Summary.aspx
53,000 records were pressed in one day in April 2015.... :eek:
Check out this video and the accompanying report below it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/36044609/record-store-day-this-is-what-happens-inside-a-vinyl-factory
:cool:
Marco.
If the trend for vinyl catches on with the upwardly mobile in India, China and Brazil that is a huge market. I get the impression it is limited to the West at the moment. But you never know.
Well HMV in Hong Kong are selling turntables, that's a new thing and I think only happened during the last 12 month's. There aren't particularly audiophile, but they are available. I saw a really high-end shop in southern Thailand in February who had some really tasty turntables on display, so all encouraging
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If the 'newly rich' in China get into it, then that would be a large market, they have got money to burn and love to show it off. There are more billionaires here now than in the US.Sent from my
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That was my thinking. But not just for the millionaires. If it becomes 'desirable' in some lifestyle way to have a turntable and a vinyl collection on display in the living space that is a mass market with tens of millions of potential customers. It happened in the late 1960s through the '70s in the West with the affordable music centre. The millionaires will have high end and the masses will have a Crosley or similar.
That was my thinking. But not just for the millionaires. If it becomes 'desirable' in some lifestyle way to have a turntable and a vinyl collection on display in the living space that is a mass market with tens of millions of potential customers.
I completely agree with you, and hope that it happens, but is just showcases the sheep-like mentality of the general public, and their obsession with wanting to own the latest 'must have'. It really is pathetic and rather sad! :doh: :rolleyes:
Marco.
StanleyB
16-04-2016, 12:06
Given the size of the world population now, and the emergence of new markets where vinyl would not have been an affordable option in the seventies and eighties, I would say that the current volume of sales of vinyl is probably not far off from its glory days.
This graph is re sale since 73 i think
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160416/743207c6454768b2ba31047f264a3f41.jpg
And this shows sales recently
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160416/2870a6bed2f74383c9fa75608251c0df.jpg
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Uncertain about 'recordings sales' being a major or even significant income source for musicians.
A boy (now in his early 30's ) who was at my house with my sons most each and every day for a decade or more is a member of a band; " Marianas' Trench"
Biggish with preteens and and god knows who.. as I find their music as semi schreeech...and unlistenable.
Damn I've become My father.
Regardless, currently they each take home ~200K $ /annum. Significant certainly, but not Legendary Rock Star incomes.
He states that 10/15% of that is due to sales, bulk is from paid engagements/ concerts... touring basically.
Surprised me actually, as I had assumed sales was the mainstay income.
He claims that's not the case, this being fairly representative in his industry.
Perhaps those at more elevated status/ fame levels do better? Dunno.
skimminstones
16-04-2016, 17:58
I know you guys all get lathered up with articles like this, but record sales are still only 2.7% of the music market, that's pretty small and outside forums is hype driven by the industry, as it's music that's bought and not easily copied.
thats what ive always thought. News of 50% rises is great if they are jumping from 20% to 40% of market share. A jump from 1.3% to 2.7% isnt exactly worth shouting about frankly.
Uncertain about 'recordings sales' being a major or even significant income source for musicians.
A boy (now in his early 30's ) who was at my house with my sons most each and every day for a decade or more is a member of a band; " Marianas' Trench"
Biggish with preteens and and god knows who.. as I find their music as semi schreeech...and unlistenable.
Damn I've become My father.
Regardless, currently they each take home ~200K $ /annum. Significant certainly, but not Legendary Rock Star incomes.
He states that 10/15% of that is due to sales, bulk is from paid engagements/ concerts... touring basically.
Surprised me actually, as I had assumed sales was the mainstay income.
He claims that's not the case, this being fairly representative in his industry.
Perhaps those at more elevated status/ fame levels do better? Dunno.
Seems to have been the case for a while - touring plus the t-shirt sales - at $200K a year I wouldn't be complaining if I were him. Much harder and less well paid ways to make a living.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160416/2870a6bed2f74383c9fa75608251c0df.jpg
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Basically static from 1996 then 2008 it takes off. I wonder what happened in 2008? One of my brothers got married but I don't think that was it.
I wonder what happened in 2008?
AoS was born! ;)
Marco.
Ali Tait
16-04-2016, 19:23
LOL.
Surprised me actually, as I had assumed sales was the mainstay income.
He claims that's not the case, this being fairly representative in his industry.
It's most definitely the case, unless you are a top mainstream artist like Adele or Coldplay. For everyone else musis sales would hardly even pay the rent, let alone provide a living, so touring and direct sales is where they get by. Great for live music fans as there has never been so much live music around, tough for musicians as they have to tour constantly to survive.
I know and mix with many artists who find it a constant struggle, but music is their life and they are driven to it, but it's a very tough life. That's why I get on my high horse at times about so called music lovers who are quite happy to steal music by downloading it, or ripping music collection's and then selling off their CDs, both are copyright theft and directly effect the artists they claim to love.
If LP sales were 50% of the market, a lot of musicians would be very happy, as would I and the music industry, but I would eat my hat if that ever happened.
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, tough for musicians as they have to tour constantly to survive.
I know and mix with many artists who find it a constant struggle, but music is their life and they are driven to it, but it's a very tough life. .
Tough compared to what? Living in the slums of Lagos on a dollar a day? 12 hour shifts in a cold storage warehouse for minimum wage? I find I also have to work constantly to survive - well 5 days out of 7 anyway, and I suspect that is most people. So the short blip in history where even a moderately successful artist could expect to be a millionaire by their late thirties is over? Well there it is.
When I was young and I had no money I would borrow friend's lps and tape them, and they would do the same with mine. That has always gone on and always will. No artists starved to death because of it. (To my knowledge).
Ali Tait
17-04-2016, 08:53
Yep, here's me working seven days this week..
Tough compared to what? Living in the slums of Lagos on a dollar a day? 12 hour shifts in a cold storage warehouse for minimum wage? I find I also have to work constantly to survive - well 5 days out of 7 anyway, and I suspect that is most people. So the short blip in history where even a moderately successful artist could expect to be a millionaire by their late thirties is over? Well there it is.
When I was young and I had no money I would borrow friend's lps and tape them, and they would do the same with mine. That has always gone on and always will. No artists starved to death because of it. (To my knowledge).
Well that's you told, Tim.
http://youtu.be/Xe1a1wHxTyo
Tough compared to many people's perception of what a musicians life is like Martin, bit of a weird analogy really. But not surprising ;)
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Tough compared to many people's perception of what a musicians life is like Martin,
Ah well that is a different thing.
To get back to the OP's question, I can't say I am really that bothered what people do with the new records that they buy.
I think it's very odd that people would, for decorative reasons, buy LPs that they can't play, and I laugh and point at those people, but there's no law against being an idiot.
I don't tend to buy that much new RRP vinyl. If it's an old record I would generally rather find an old copy, and there is so much cheap good condition vinyl available I enjoy searching it out and finding it.
I seem to remember reading recently that the recent vinyl trend is actually quite damaging to the independent labels who never stopped making records. The argument was that the big labels closed down their pressing plants and the few plants left standing have been kept alive over the past twenty or so years by the tiny dance labels etc. With the resurgence, the big labels are throwing their money at the pressing plants and booking all available time for reprints of "Dark Side of the Moon" et al, and those small companies cam no longer get a look in, and so are in trouble...
R
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I think it's very odd that people would, for decorative reasons, buy LPs that they can't play, and I laugh and point at those people, but there's no law against being an idiot.
Now that's not very nice, is it? ;)
I'd have to strongly disagree, and can fully understand why youngsters would choose to do that (as indeed was outlined in the video) - and it hardly qualifies them as 'idiots'. Perhaps an 'idiot' is more someone who doesn't 'get' the concept of creating an 'old-skool vibe', with the room decor of a young person who's fashion conscious?
:eyebrows: ;)
Marco.
Now that's not very nice, is it? ;)
I'd have to strongly disagree, and can fully understand why youngsters would choose to do that (as indeed was outlined in the video) - and it hardly qualifies them as 'idiots'. Perhaps an 'idiot' is more someone who doesn't 'get' the concept of creating an 'old-skool vibe', with the room decor of young person who's fashion conscious?
:eyebrows: ;)
Marco.
It sounds suspiciously like you are trying to call me an idiot, but keeping deniability, Marco
[emoji12]
It might be a bit strong to call him an idiot, but he called them "vinyls", so I'll stand by it.
[emoji48]
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walpurgis
20-04-2016, 17:28
Words like 'ice' and 'thin' just seem to spring to mind somehow. :)
Words like 'ice' and 'thin' just seem to spring to mind somehow. :)
They say the ice is getting thinner, but it's all lies because they want more funding.
[emoji12]
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It sounds suspiciously like you are trying to call me an idiot, but keeping deniability, Marco
It might be a bit strong to call him an idiot, but he called them "vinyls", so I'll stand by it.
Not at all, hence why I put the word 'idiot' in inverted commas. The point was to indicate that your insult wasn't very nice, and also undeserved. He is no more an 'idiot' than you are - and you're definitely not an idiot.
I wouldn't condone the use of the term "vinyls" either, but he's a young guy, and that's what young guys call it :)
Marco.
Now that's not very nice, is it? ;)
I'd have to strongly disagree, and can fully understand why youngsters would choose to do that (as indeed was outlined in the video) - and it hardly qualifies them as 'idiots'. Perhaps an 'idiot' is more someone who doesn't 'get' the concept of creating an 'old-skool vibe', with the room decor of a young person who's fashion conscious?
:eyebrows: ;)
Marco.
Young people who are fashion-conscious mostly have silly beards and dress funny. They look like idiots, however intelligent they may actually be.
I recall when I was a lad we used to decorate our rooms with LP sleeves, though we also played the records.
The silly beards are really the clincher. There is no way back from that.
Stratmangler
21-04-2016, 11:23
Young people who are fashion-conscious mostly have silly beards and dress funny
...and that's just the girls :eyebrows:
'The modern young man', said Aunt Dahlia, 'is a congenital idiot and wants a nurse to lead him by the hand and some strong attendant to kick him regularly at intervals'. PGW
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