View Full Version : Exposure 1010 vs Rega Brio R
Hello AOS,
My 1st post here (after the obligatory welcome sign-in), would appreciate some advice please.
I'm currently looking at the acquisition of a decent budget amp to go with an oldie, but goodie Pioneer PD-S801 and driving Ruark Talisman ll speakers. Have been doing a bit of swotting and the Exp 1010 and Rega are definite shortlist amps. Haven't really seen any info on how they compare to each other, on one hand there is the smoothness and slight roll-off of the 801 and the lively Ruarks and would ideally like a sound that is reasonably lush but detailed. Would I be looking for something neutral in character to achieve that ?
£500 is the budget and don't mind used versions of either, although the 1010 seems a rare find and might be able to go to 2010S2 on the used market. Both amps are well regarded and I can get a demo of both at Doug Brady. I briefly owned the Brio R some years ago but speakers at the time weren't in the same league as the Ruarks.
Any thoughts on comparison with these 2 amps appreciated and any alternatives, not really looking at the likes of Arcam, NAD, Marantz etc.
Thanks
walpurgis
08-04-2016, 10:19
£500 might get you a decent used Sugden A21a or Creek Destiny. Check the reviews out on these. They are good amps.
£500 might get you a decent used Sugden A21a or Creek Destiny. Check the reviews out on these. They are good amps.
Good shout. Hadn't really considered Sugden's valviness.
A bit leftfield from my original post but what about passive pre-amp and controlling my Linn LK140 ? I have no experience of passive amps, I'm sure it will function as intended but is the LK140 good enough ?
I used to be indecisive......:rolleyes:
walpurgis
08-04-2016, 11:05
A bit leftfield from my original post but what about passive pre-amp and controlling my Linn LK140 ? I have no experience of passive amps, I'm sure it will function as intended but is the LK140 good enough ?
I used to be indecisive......:rolleyes:
I doubt you'd gain much from that arrangement. Basically, you'd just be putting another hurdle in the way of the signal. The simpler the better is the way wherever possible. Many passive pre-amps are not very rewarding to use.
The Sugden is not 'valvey'. It is clean and lucid, as a good Class A solid state amp should be. It's a pretty refined sound.
I doubt you'd gain much from that arrangement. Basically, you'd just be putting another hurdle in the way of the signal. The simpler the better is the way wherever possible. Many passive pre-amps are not very rewarding to use.
The Sugden is not 'valvey'. It is clean and lucid, as a good Class A solid state amp should be. It's a pretty refined sound.
Understood, will abandon the pre idea.
southall-1998
08-04-2016, 12:30
Saying that the A21a is as close you can get to a valve, is plain bullshit IMO.
The A21a is a very much solid state sounding. It is a clean, ''sharp'' and focused sounding type of class A amp. Match it wrong and the suggie will tell you about it!!
But that doesn't mean the Sugden is a harsh/spitty sounding amp though.
IMO, the A21a series II is better. Thanks to a bigger power supply. The bass is fleshed out more. These can be bought second for around £780-950 from time to time.
S.
I wouldn't go for either amp at this budget.
I'd go for something like a Sony TA-F670ES or TA-F770ES. £500 is a very sensitive budget; you can get a dog, or get a fabulous amp. Yes it's the same at any budget, but £500 is a 'sweet spot' IMHO (second-hand) with diminishing returns kicking in hard after for 99% of amps.
Am not convinced that either a Brio R or 1010 would be a substantial upgrade from what you have. In anycase, if you're looking at an Exposure 1010, then you should also be looking at second hand Exposure 2010 or XV if you wanted to use Exposure.
As above there are lots of big Sony amps around for that money and mostly a fair bit less. They are pretty good too. Even the sony ta fb940 qs is pretty good far less the 770es which was there top integrated i think.. Ive a 940 and its a nice amp...even has full remote
Saying that the A21a is as close you can get to a valve, is plain bullshit IMO.
The A21a is a very much solid state sounding. It is a clean, ''sharp'' and focused sounding type of class A amp. Match it wrong and the suggie will tell you about it!!
But that doesn't mean the Sugden is a harsh/spitty sounding amp though.
IMO, the A21a series II is better. Thanks to a bigger power supply. The bass is fleshed out more. These can be bought second for around £780-950 from time to time.
S.
Shane, please excuse my ignorance with regard to the assumption that Class A operation involved valves. I have most probably formed this incorrect fact based around my Laney guitar amp with valve output stage, I therefore stand corrected.
Shane, please excuse my ignorance with regard to the assumption that Class A operation involved valves. I have most probably formed this incorrect fact based around my Laney guitar amp with valve output stage, I therefore stand corrected.
Actually you were half right, 'valve sound' is often associated with a lack of 'grain' or 'grit' in the sound, which due to a lack of crossover distortion in Class A solid state amps, can have the same impact of sounding less 'rough' than usual solid state.
Saying that the A21a is as close you can get to a valve, is plain bullshit IMO.
The A21a is a very much solid state sounding. It is a clean, ''sharp'' and focused sounding type of class A amp. Match it wrong and the suggie will tell you about it!!
But that doesn't mean the Sugden is a harsh/spitty sounding amp though.
IMO, the A21a series II is better. Thanks to a bigger power supply. The bass is fleshed out more. These can be bought second for around £780-950 from time to time.
S.
By the way Shane, I'm a big fan of your Pioneer PD75 a real bruiser of a player, saw one in a shop in Manchester 20-odd years ago, proper Japanese over-engineering, how do you find it ?
southall-1998
08-04-2016, 17:12
Nick,
The ''Bullshit'' bit wasn't aimed at you personally. Not to worry, I only bite back at idiots!
Its just that there are some people. Who over exaggerate, on perceiving the A21a sounding just like a warm cuddly valve amp.- This sometimes bloody irritates me.
I've only recently acquired the PD-75 CD Player. Yes, the build quality is stunning, and the unit weighs nearly 15kg! TBH, I haven't yet listened to it through my system.
Only vaguely heard it working at the sellers gaff last week. Sounded competent, and not overly bright through the man's system.
S.
hifi_dave
08-04-2016, 17:16
I really don't know what 'class-A' sound is. I've heard 'class-A' amps sound fat and mushy or clean and bright, so I assume it's the way they are implemented. Personally, I wouldn't consider an amp just because of it's class. You need to hear them and decide.
my MF one certainly wasnt mushy.... I probably should have kept it tbh looking back; such is life though. I heard a mk1 sugden once, and it was nice.
southall-1998
08-04-2016, 17:22
my MF one certainly wasnt mushy.... I probably should have kept it tbh looking back; such is life though. I heard a mk1 sugden once, and it was nice.
Which MF amp was that, Grant?
S.
It was an A1000 Shane.... superb bit of kit, and many think their best in a time when little cash was spared ... piano blacked over brass or something like that. 50 w class A
http://izayoizero.myweb.hinet.net/20120317b.jpg
southall-1998
08-04-2016, 17:34
http://izayoizero.myweb.hinet.net/20120317b.jpg
Gosh man....Look at that :stalks:
S.
Still got the handbook and a sales poster of the time. You never know, I might win lottery and find another lol.
Nick,
The ''Bullshit'' bit wasn't aimed at you personally. Not to worry, I only bite back at idiots!
Its just that there are some people. Who over exaggerate, on perceiving the A21a sounding just like a warm cuddly valve amp.- This sometimes bloody irritates me.
I've only recently acquired the PD-75 CD Player. Yes, the build quality is stunning, and the unit weighs nearly 15kg! TBH, I haven't yet listened to it through my system.
Only vaguely heard it working at the sellers gaff last week. Sounded competent, and not overly bright through the man's system.
S.
No worries Shane, early days I know but if you ever want to move it on, do please keep me in mind.
Hopefully back on topic, any more info on the 1010 Exposure, anybody ?
southall-1998
08-04-2016, 22:09
No worries Shane, early days I know but if you ever want to move it on, do please keep me in mind.
Hopefully back on topic, any more info on the 1010 Exposure, anybody ?
I'll let you know first, only if I decide to sell, Nick. But TBH, I wouldn't be happy posting the PD-75. Even though I've got the original box.
Its too fragile and beautiful! To be handled by those courier working dorks!
Have you also heard the ''Elite'' version of the PD-75?
S.
I'll let you know first, only if I decide to sell, Nick. But TBH, I wouldn't be happy posting the PD-75. Even though I've got the original box.
Its too fragile and beautiful! To be handled by those courier working dorks!
Have you also heard the ''Elite'' version of the PD-75?
S.
Don't worry Shane, it was a very casual enquiry, you've only just got it, please enjoy it. The 75 was a rather aspirational piece for me back in its day, never a hope I'd own one but I was like the kid in the sweet shop and other such cliches. Never actually heard one, just seeing it, well that's gonna sound amazing !!!!!
Anyway, onto possibly more mundane matters....has anyone heard an Exposure 1010 ? Any good ? If so, I'll sort an audition and buy it if I like it too; possibly my most pragmatic hifi decision EVER :yay:
This ... http://2ndhandhifi.co.uk/product/talk-electronics-hurricane-3-preamplifier-tornado-2-power-amplifier/
Their lively and involving sound should blend well with your Ruarks.
Talk electronics are still very much in business, and have excellent service/support.
I use a Rega Brio R, and would say that the value is in the excellent phonostage (improved over the previous 'plain' Brio). For around £300 secondhand, the R is a no-brainer if you think vinyl might be in your future. It has a very slightly 'fuller', richer sound than the exposure or linn.
brian2957
09-04-2016, 04:45
+1 for the Brio R . I've been using it for some time now in my system . :)
Lots of good advice here. Fully agree the A21a is nothing like valve amp. Also that the mk2 is a better amp to my ears. I also agree that the 1010 and Brio would be unlikely to offer an upgrade. As to what would? You'll certainly get more bang for buck if you buy used. What you should look for, will depend on what attributes you prefer: more drive and authority will probably need a bigger SS amp. If it's delicacy, space and openness, have a listen to some of the valve contenders. a Puresound A30 can now be had for under £500 used, as can a few recent/current amps.
If you can get to a bake-off or find forum members near to you who are happy to let you listen, you will benefit greatly from hearing for yourself.
A bit leftfield from my original post but what about passive pre-amp and controlling my Linn LK140 ? I have no experience of passive amps, I'm sure it will function as intended but is the LK140 good enough ?
I used to be indecisive......:rolleyes:
Despite what Geoff says this is an option worth considering - get a passive on sale or return and try it. . By using a passive you are not adding a hurdle but removing an unnecessary gain stage that is adding noise and distortion to the signal. You will be able to hear what your Pioneer is actually doing and you will get music, not just sound.
walpurgis
09-04-2016, 10:18
Despite what Geoff says this is an option worth considering - get a passive on sale or return and try it. . By using a passive you are not adding a hurdle but removing an unnecessary gain stage that is adding noise and distortion to the signal. You will be able to hear what your Pioneer is actually doing and you will get music, not just sound.
Yes. I take back my observations. I'd assumed the LK140 was an integrated amp. As it's a power amp, as I've now realised, a passive may be worth trying.
Thanks but on further reading it appears Linn power amps have very low input impedance which necessitates an active to make any worthwhile improvement. Going to take my time with this one but thanks for all the help/insight so far.
Will probably end up going for the best integrated I can afford when the time's right.
Well I've used a Linn LK100 with a passive and it works fine. Maybe that is the exception with Linn power amps but I doubt it.
Well after declaring I was going to bide my time, I have a 1010 incoming, got it for a good price I think, will report findings when it lands.
Thanks for all suggestions so far gents.
My Exposure 1010 amp arrived yesterday and have only had some very brief listening at low volume, in short, hugely impressed so far, seems to project an enormous soundstage through the Ruarks, fed by the old stalwart Pioneer player. Seems to posses ample power for my room, so a bit chuffed at the moment. Absolutely going to stop box swapping now pending some more serious volume level testing. My first bit of Exposure kit and think I've made a good choice.
My Exposure 1010 amp arrived yesterday and have only had some very brief listening at low volume, in short, hugely impressed so far, seems to project an enormous soundstage through the Ruarks, fed by the old stalwart Pioneer player. Seems to posses ample power for my room, so a bit chuffed at the moment. Absolutely going to stop box swapping now pending some more serious volume level testing. My first bit of Exposure kit and think I've made a good choice.
Good for you, I had a lot of fun when I used an Exposure 2010. There's a lot to be said for the simpler, lower powered amps in some ways - a good example here is how many people seem to prefer the lower range Expo integrateds over the 3010 series.
Does the exposure sound rather bright, neutral or warm? Just would love to et more listening impressions. Thanks
Does the exposure sound rather bright, neutral or warm? Just would love to et more listening impressions. Thanks
Definitely doesn't sound bright in my set-up, quite smooth with a very good dose of detail, highly recommended by me. Have had it running LOUD a couple of times and it was spot on, retained all the qualities I like about it at lower levels, runs cool too. Probably one of the more spacious sounding amps I've owned too, I've absolutely nothing negative to say about it. Well built and looks great in that minimalistic way that many appreciate. It may be entry level but it's very, very nice.
I would say the new Exposure sound is on the lively side of neutral. Not bright.
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