Wanted: Interesting MC phonostage. What have you? [Archive]

StanleyB

07-11-2009, 12:19

The MC version is the TC-760LC,
http://www.homehifi.co.uk/products/images/TC-760LCff.jpg
also known as the Revolver Phono 2.
http://www.brecklandaudio.co.uk/images/phono2.jpg
Not sure if I got any of those left over at the moment. If I do, yours for £50, instead of £180 for the Revolver branded one.

The TC-750 is quite good for the price. I use it on my high output MC cartridge.

If you are only looking to play with them for a while, you don't have to buy them. Just sort out the postage and send them back when you are finished:).

DSJR

07-11-2009, 13:53

Do you usually carry these in stock? I had no idea they existed...

The croft is brilliant for me, but the AVI phono-stage tends to soft clip (deliberately) too much and sounds soft-n-soggy as a result...

Marco

07-11-2009, 14:40

Hi Jerry,

You said "interesting", so how about one of these:

http://www.joynetmall.com/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=24&products_id=512

I know you're not averse to importing toys from abroad, and I can tell you from experience that it is quite superb. It's one of those Jap products which punches way above its weight - a 'giant-killer' a bit like the Denon DL-103, etc.

It's relatively unknown in the UK, but the few people I know who've imported one are absolutely delighted with it. You also get MM, too, thrown in for free, enabling you to switch from one to the other at the touch of a button!

I'd easily compare it to many well-known commercial designs at up to £700, and it looks like a veritable little jewel, too (typical Japanese build quality)! :)

It would certainly be an interesting one to try and add to the extensive list of Jerry's 'test subjects' :cool:

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure

07-11-2009, 15:18

marco

am i to asume that would be more apropriate with my oc9 than the naim boards i currently use?
have you heard any comments on how this might compare to alex's pre-amps?

Marco

07-11-2009, 15:48

Hi Hamish,

I've never tried one with an OC-9, however one would presume that the combination would work well, given that AT will likely have designed the PEQ20 with their own cartridges in mind. It certainly worked very well with the AT-33PTG I heard it with.

Having heard the PEQ20 and knowing Naim boards from old, I'd say that the PEQ20 is likely to be better if one is using an OC-9.

As for Alex's phono stages, having heard those (indeed I am testing one at the moment), I would suggest that these are at a different (superior) level again from either of the above, especially his top models. Alex is a bit of a specialist in his field.

The PEQ20 is definitely worth a punt, though - it's a really lovely little device! :)

Marco.

Dave Cawley

07-11-2009, 15:59

To A.O.S. members the A.N.T. MC SE is a tad over £400.

Marco likes the Ltd version as did David Price see his review here http://www.soundhifi.com/images/Kora%20master.pdf

Regards

Dave

Marco

07-11-2009, 16:05

Like it? It's bloody awsome, and not far off the Croft's all-valve phono stage (about £2.5k's worth), which is a major compliment :)

It all depends how much Jerry wants to spend. The PEQ20 is a rather special little box for not a lot of money.

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure

07-11-2009, 16:22

To A.O.S. members the A.N.T. MC SE is a tad over £400.

Marco likes the Ltd version as did David Price see his review here http://www.soundhifi.com/images/Kora%20master.pdf

Regards

Dave

been on holiday dave? not seen you round these parts for a little while...

The Vinyl Adventure

07-11-2009, 16:23

jandl100

07-11-2009, 16:36

The MC version is the TC-760LC, also known as the Revolver Phono 2.

Not sure if I got any of those left over at the moment. If I do, yours for £50, instead of £180 for the Revolver branded one.

If you are only looking to play with them for a while, you don't have to buy them. Just sort out the postage and send them back when you are finished:).

Thanks Stan

If you do have a 760LC I'd love to try it. Can you find out if you do have one before 6.15 this evening? - there's a couple of interesting items on eBay! ;)

... and if you can get it to me by next Friday that would be ideal. :)

If it does the biz for me I'd be happy to pay £50 to take it off your shelves.
____

I'd like a 'decent' phonostage as a "spare". The one in my Unison Research UnicoPRE is actually pretty damn good, but I'd like a decent portable 'stage to take to a BakeOff next Saturday and also for the HiPie SHow next March.
____

Thanks for the Jap 'stage link, Marco - that does look mighty interesting - but it doesn't meet my deadline for next weekend! :scratch: If Stan's machine doesn't work out I may look at that more closely.

Marco

07-11-2009, 17:23

Hi Jerry,

No worrries, oi understands :)

Mind you, there's a chance that if you ordered it today, you might get it for Friday - I've seen it happen ;)

Whose bake-off are you going to?

Hamish,

The PEQ20 is definitely one to note. Personally, though, I'd love to hear an OC-9 (or AT-33PTG) through one of these:

http://www.joynetmall.com/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=24&products_id=3085

...and into Alex's limited MM phono stage, or the Croft. I reckon that it would be an awsome combo.

It's interesting that AT have recently designed quite a few step-up transformers. As well as the 2000T, above, there is also the 3000T:

http://www.joynetmall.com/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=24&products_id=1910

...And the top of the range 5000T:

http://www.joynetmall.com/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=24&products_id=81

This suggests to me that Audio Technica feel that the best way to use their cartridges is in conjunction with a dedicated SUT - a view I would wholly concur with :)

They're certainly not building all these SUTs just for the good of their health! ;)

Marco.

Dave Cawley

07-11-2009, 18:14

This suggests to me that Audio Technica feel that the best way to use their cartridges is in conjunction with a dedicated SUT

I don't think they do, its Japanese thing!!

Dave

Dave Cawley

07-11-2009, 18:20

Hi Hamish

Been busy, still am!

The D200 and f/2.8 will go on eBay next week.

Dave

The Grand Wazoo

07-11-2009, 18:39

This suggests to me that Audio Technica feel that the best way to use their cartridges is in conjunction with a dedicated SUT

I don't think they do, its Japanese thing!!

Dave

My theory's always been that cartridge makers know coils, so they stick to what they know - and put coils in a step up.

Spectral Morn

07-11-2009, 18:42

Hi Jerry

Hows about a Chord Coral mk1. Balanced outputs and RCA single ended or RCA balanced (ie 4 RCA inputs)...excellent with adjustments internally to select impedance and capacitance.

Had it listed here before and would consider selling for the right price was £1800 new.

Link http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3627

Regards D S D L

Marco

07-11-2009, 19:04

My theory's always been that cartridge makers know coils, so they stick to what they know - and put coils in a step up.

There's a lot of sense in that, Chris :)

I doubt that I'll ever use MC cartridges any other way, unless I buy one which doesn't have a dedicated SUT designed to use with it, and that's unlikely.

Dave,

It might be a Japanese thing, but in my experience, 'Japanese things', as you put it, are very often worthwhile! Their audiophiles are renowned worldwide for being rather knowledgeable and discerning.

Examples of stuff Japs have a 'thing' about (and for good reason):

1) S-shaped detachable headshell (and high-mass) tonearms, such as the Jelco 750 and numerous other similar types of arms I could mention. In the UK, we stupidly pooh-pooh them, yet we know how excellent the Jelco and others of its type are.

2) Direct-drive turntables - need I say more? ;)

3) Big, classic, speakers like vintage Tannoys.

4) High quality valve amplifiers.

I could go on...............

Basically, they know what they're doing! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Dave Cawley

07-11-2009, 19:16

Guys, I think you are missing the point here! Virtually all Japanese cartridge makers make SUT's, why? because they wind coils, cartridge or transformer. They are there to make money, by any way they can. And why not?

Find me a Japanese audiophile using a 33 or OC9 with a SUT and I'll eat my hat, but find a DL-103SA Japanese audiophile using a transformer and they can buy me a beer, or three!

Having trawled the Akihabra district I know my onions.............. Oh BTW many have new Tannoys, brand new, and ones you have never seen before! and not small either.

Dave

Marco

07-11-2009, 19:31

Guys, I think you are missing the point here! Virtually all Japanese cartridge makers make SUT's, why? because they wind coils, cartridge or transformer. They are there to make money, by any way they can.

I don't disagree with you Dave, but there's a bit more to it than that.

The Germans, Greeks and Italians (who along with the Japanese make up the biggest percentage of world's most discerning audiophiles, and they spend the most money, too!) love SUTs - for good reason.

Keith Aschenbrenner (a German), for example, designed the superb A23 SUT as a result of his passion for the DL-103. It was nothing to do with him seeking to make pots of cash - that was never on the agenda with such a niche product. He simply believed that what he was doing was the best solution in an audio sense.

Yes you're right, there are commercial reasons for, say, Audio Technica designing their SUTs, but it's also to do with the fact that people with very good ears believe that this is the best way of using a moving coil cartridge.

Having trawled the Akihabra district I know my onions.............. Oh BTW many have new Tannoys, brand new, and ones you have never seen before! and not small either.

Quite; neither are mine. Like I said, they're discerning and they know what they're doing! ;)

Marco.

Rare Bird

07-11-2009, 19:36

Shelter 901

Dave Cawley

07-11-2009, 19:48

Indeed, and we agree, apart from

Find me a Japanese audiophile using a 33 or OC9 with a SUT and I'll eat my hat, but find a DL-103SA Japanese audiophile using a transformer and they can buy me a beer, or three!

Time for a beer????

Dave

jandl100

07-11-2009, 22:12

Sorry to butt in here and post something On Topic :doh: (how embarassing for me) ... but I'm now sorted on the Phonostage front - have just bought a Moth series 30 'stage on eBay.

.... ah, but you've got to love this forum ..... carry on as you were ..... :eyebrows:

Dave Cawley

07-11-2009, 22:36

Moth series 30, can't find the spec on it?

Dave

Marco

07-11-2009, 22:36

Glad you've found something suitable, Jerry :)

Do keep the Audio Technica in mind for another time, though.

Trust me, if enough people here heard the capabilities of that little box it'd become as popular a phono stage as the Beresford is a DAC ;)

Marco.

Rare Bird

07-11-2009, 22:42

Moth series 30, can't find the spec on it?

Dave

Will the circuit be of help

http://www.stancurtis.com/downloads.htm

jandl100

08-11-2009, 07:08

It looks to be an 'interesting' design - loads of gain according to the seller who used a Denon 304 quite happily. Should be fine for my medium output Orty Rondo Bronze. I've long been an admirer of Stan Curtis's work so it should be interesting to have a go with it. :)
__

Marco - the Bake Off I mentioned is at Frank Marshall's (effem) down in Cornwall - advertised in the Wigwam forum. Fine chap, I've visited him a couple of times and done much hifi biz with him. Should be a good day. At least one other member of AOS will also be there.

Marco

08-11-2009, 10:00

Ah, Frank - yep, I know him well from the old days of the 'Wam cable wars! ;)

Yes, he's always came across as a nice guy; always willing to offer help and advice to people when he can, and knowledgeable too.

I think he's also a member here (can't remember the user name he registered with), but he's only posted once. I think that he prefers to devote his time to one forum, and he's been a Wammer for years. Give him my regards and tell him I said 'hello' :)

Marco.

DSJR

08-11-2009, 12:02

I had a Moth phono stage back in the 1990's. I'll be interested to read what you think of it..

Moth used to make the "Black-Head" SUT (:lol:) Has anyone tried one?

Marco

08-11-2009, 12:07

Yes it was quite good, as was their 'Flutterbuster' off-board PSU. Remember those? I used to use one with an Ariston RD11S, in the 80s :)

Marco.

DSJR

08-11-2009, 12:16

I never used a Flutterbuster, but I knew Moth-Mike from his late-seventies days selling Grado's (Transonic Imports to start with, who's bosses became mine twenty years later).

I believe Mike services Zeta arms these days too and he acted as intermediary with my Decca cartridge repair - maybe the Decca people themselves repaired it, but it was done very well and very quickly...

Marco

08-11-2009, 12:28

The Flutterbuster was pretty good and came in a nice oak box. It worked with all synchronous motor T/Ts and was easily as good as anything Linn were making at the time ;)

Marco.

The Grand Wazoo

08-11-2009, 13:29

The Black Head was a pretty good SUT for the price - I used one for a while. Tim dP design. I sold it on Ebay for more than I paid for it new.

The Headcase headphone amp was another one from that series. Another Tim dP design in the same long thin case as the Moth amps. I've still got it, though I changed a few things inside.

jandl100

08-11-2009, 18:34

I had a Moth phono stage back in the 1990's. I'll be interested to read what you think of it.

Aha - it sounds like you weren't very impressed. :lol:

Well, I'll give it a go and if it fails to please I'll move it on again sooner rather than later! ;)

___

Marco, yup, I'll pass your regards onto Frank and encourage him to post here.

DSJR

08-11-2009, 19:57

I'm not saying it was no good, as it may have sounded livelier with a preamp equipped with higher input impedance than my first AVI's 20K or thereabouts. It followed my first and much lamented Croft preamp and, as we know, Crofty makes some pretty darned good phono stages...

jandl100

10-11-2009, 13:12

Well, the Moth 30 has arrived - excellent sound quality, I suspect :) but the damn thing is faulty with a strong left channel bias so I'm sending it back, hopefully. :(
Bugger.

Stan - do you have the mc stage you mentioned?

Dave Cawley

10-11-2009, 13:26

My offer is still there, more expensive, but a "keeper" !

Dave

jandl100

10-11-2009, 13:31

My offer is still there, more expensive, but a "keeper" !

Dave

Thanks Dave - but £400+ is more than I feel I need to spend. The underlying sound quality of the Moth seems excellent - and that cost me £160. I'll look into Marco's Japanese AT reccy, I think!

Dave Cawley

10-11-2009, 13:59

OK, no problem.

Dave

Marco

10-11-2009, 15:43

I'll look into Marco's Japanese AT reccy, I think!

Hi Jerry,

Sorry the Moth didn't work out for ya; fingers crossed the AT does the biz! Shop around though for the best deal, (as if I need to tell YOU that, lol), as I'm not sure that the site I linked to is the cheapest.

You can get them from a few Jap sites, and also from the likes of Audiocubes.

Keep us posted on how you get on! :)

Marco.

DSJR

10-11-2009, 17:38

Is the Cambridge 640P such a total pile of poo that no-one here would give it credence???

I mean - plain case, made in China with very reasonable internal bits and a good MC stage to go with an excellent (apparently) MC one?

OK, it lacks cachet, as all Cambridge stuff does, but enough good has been said about it elsewhere for it to be a strong contender for not much dosh... Apparently, it can be taken further as well..

Surely it'sd not that horrid?

Mike Reed

11-11-2009, 12:38

JERRY,

Here's a proposition. You buy my Naim Prefix K for relative peanuts and spend a small fortune on a decent power supply. That's a Flatcap for pennies up to a Supercap for well over a grand used.

Oh, well ! Just a thought !

However, IF your deck has accessibility for this, and an SME socket on the arm, AND if your cart. shunts out no more than, say, 0.5mv, it's a marvellous little stage. Superline renders it redundant now, and the MCT I tried out was quite unbelievable (in a negative sense).

Problem is, my CDP is going rusty !

jandl100

17-11-2009, 09:04

Thanks for the comments and suggestions, folks.

The Moth has now gone back for a refund - took it to Frank's and opened it up - plug connections very difficult to access to redo the soldering and anyway, 1 blown cap and 2 areas of charred circuit board! :doh: Frank was not impressed with how it had been constructed, either.

So, ..... re: the Cambridge 640P - I've had one and yes, it really is that horrid. Well, OK - for the £60 or so you can pick one up for it's 'OK' but double the budget (a measly extra £60) and you can get something that ain't half bad at all ... I went to a MF XLPS3 then added a PSU. Hugely better than the Cambridge. Then on to a WhestTWO for under £300 - now we're talking quality! Kept that for quite a while but fancied a valve 'stage - Melos PS-1. Kept that a while then started looking around again. But in the meantime I bought a Unison Research UnicoPRE and that has a pretty good mc stage on it, even if the Melos was a tad better.

Tbh - I'd be sensible to stay with the UnicoPRE stage for a while, it is pretty damn good - I'll keep an eye on the classifieds and see what else comes along and do some research on that AT stage - I'll def need a separate stage for the PieFi Show next March ....

Naim, Mike? Yup, I've heard that those are excellent but I'm not gonna start faffing around with Naim PSUs at my time of life! :)

___

Oh dang - just remembered that with all the excitement of the Bake Off (including a great ecc83 shootout!) I forgot to mention Marco/AOS to Frank. :doh: Sorry - I'll drop him a PM with a link.

Marco

17-11-2009, 09:21

LOL! No worries, Jerry! How did the bake-off go? :)

Yes, definitely research the PEQ20... I'm not sure how much info there is on the 'Net in terms of user reviews, but all I can say is I've heard it in conjunction with an AT-33PTG (which in my opinion is miles better than an OC-9) and it was quite superb for the money - looks sexy, too (well, as far as transistor phono stages go)!

Marco.

The Grand Wazoo

29-03-2013, 00:14