View Full Version : Hana SL Vs AT33PTG/II
It's getting closer to new cartridge time.
Being a fan of the AT150MLX I have, I was wondering if anybody has had a chance to listen to both the AT33PTG/II and the Hana SL?
If so, what are your opinions?
I know cartridges are a personal taste thing, but I have read good things about the AT and the Hana. The AT can be had for about £100 less as well (if you shop around), which is always a consideration.
That is a saving of about half of a Denon 301 mk2. ;)
Of the Hana I can tell you nothing. But I can share a view on the AT33PTG/II.
I'm currently using one and it's gradually caused me to change my opinion of AT cartridges, to the point where it's now a permanent resident in my arm and the SAE 1000LT now lives carefully tucked away in a drawer - and I never thought that would happen.
It does require careful set up though to get the best from it and you do need to put some some hours on the cart before it starts to give of it's best (where've we heard that before?). Fine adjustment of the anti skate allowing the stylus to "float" centrally in the groove really paid off - something I'd previously scoffed at. Oh, and partnering kit plays a huge part in whether this works for you or not.
http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee481/bob4333/hifi%20stuff/RIMG0008.jpg (http://s1230.photobucket.com/user/bob4333/media/hifi%20stuff/RIMG0008.jpg.html)
My 33 is now sweet and insightful and exhibits NONE of the nasty traits sometimes levelled at AT MC cartridges: in particular no sibilence or spitty over bright treble. Bass is taught, clean and well controlled rather than just a mass of low end power. Perfect? No. If I had a mix of some of the SAE's bottom end and the AT's top it just might be: overall I think I'm trading boogie for accuracy - both enjoyable traits when the time is right but as mentioned it's the AT33PTG/II that stays in situ now. I also found it to be quite an improvement on the ATOC9/II from the same manufacturer.
Buying cartridges is absolute agony. You can't really tell until you get it home, in your room with your kit and after you've sat listening for as few days. I doubt this is the last cartridge I'll ever buy but if future adventures turn out to be duds I'll be quite happy to go back to the 33.
Thanks Bob.
As an SAE1000LT owner, that is most helpful.
A very useful comparison for me.
I can only echo Bobs words. It takes very careful setup and 20+hrs running before it settles. I found loading critical as well at first but this seems to become less of an issue after it's run in. This is not a colourful cartridge, its neutral in presentation and quite revealing and may take you some time to adjust to the presentation, It tracks superbly as well...
I have ordered an AT33PTG/II :)
My first proper MC.
I have read in several places that the Hana SL presentation was a similar style to a 2M Black.
Before I buy one, I would like to hear it first.
The AT33PTG/11 was on my list as well Kevin so will be interested to know how you get on with it.
If you have any budget left you could always try a Denon 301 mk2 - you may be surprised.:)
If you have any budget left you could always try a Denon 301 mk2 - you may be surprised.:)
That is the plan ;)
I have ordered an AT33PTG/II :)
In which case Kevin, I would be very interested to see what you make of it.
The 20+ hours mentioned by Neal (NRG) has the emphasis very much on the +. For me it was sounding pretty good at this point but didn't go truly sweet until at least 50. Now whether this was down to my persevering (fiddling) with the set up or just becoming more familiar with it or indeed something else changing I'm not sure.
But as we both have a common reference with the SAE I shall be interested in your perceptions if you care to share them.
Bob
No problem Bob. I am happy to share my findings.
The set up on my arm should be relatively easy to tweak. I have on the fly VTA.
It's also much easier since I bought the Feickert Protractor NG to get the cartridge set up accurately.
I still have a feeling that much fiddling will be involved.
Excellent.
Looks like you may be able to bring a degree of science and accuracy to what is otherwise a very intuitive process, especially doing real time VTA adjustment. Forgot to mention it was the VTA in the end that I think made the biggest difference.
Sounds like you'll get there faster than I did.
This is what made me start to take the subject a bit more seriously: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQDa7suJn64
It's a bit long winded but Michael Fremer certainly knows his stuff and you can wizz through it and cherry pick. Record cutting and VTA comes in around 38 minutes.
Bob
Hoe do you run yours Bob? Is the arm tail down, flat or up? Mine is tail down...
I mucked about with it a fair bit, then inspired by the Fremer vid I bought a cheap USB 'scope off ebay (about 12 quid IIRC).
I tried to replicate what Fremer was on about and think I got close to what he was saying about VTA. I finished with a slightly tail up / head down rather than horizontal which seems to tie in with his theory. It really would be nice to be able to change VTA on the fly which is why Kevin's views will be extremely useful.
Changing the VTA on my arm is easy but not overly precise: but I seem to recall Fremer saying that you need 4mm at the arm pillar to change 1 deg at the head end. Raise or lower the pillar half a mil and you might struggle to hear what you've actually done.
But this is only what suited me and it would be strange indeed if we all ran the same set up given the variables involved between systems.
Bob
The AT33PTG/II was waiting for me when I got home.
It's installed and sounding rather splendid. I can't wait for it to break in and see what it's really made of. :cool:
anubisgrau
13-04-2016, 17:53
I wish I found Hana SL in Japan on a recent trip. I wanted to get one to try and pass it to a friend as a gift, but sadly, no one I spoke to has ever heard of it, both in big (Yodobashi) and small shops.
It's installed and sounding rather splendid. I can't wait for it to break in and see what it's really made of. :cool:
Going in the right direction then. Fingers crossed. Good idea, think I'll join you. :cool:
walpurgis
13-04-2016, 18:18
Getting a new MC always seems a bit of a special occasion. Glad you're enjoying the experience Kevin. How do you find the sound of AT so far compared to using MMs?
First LP down, and it sounds a little bit bright.
This is likely to be the case for about 40 hours apparently.
The soundstage and separation are superb though.
walpurgis
13-04-2016, 19:25
I think sometimes the impression of MC brightness can be due to the better resolution and transparency at the top and through the mid that good MCs have, compared to many MMs.
anubisgrau
13-04-2016, 19:27
but ATs can be really bright.
Now listening on my headphones, and it's superb.
As you say, transparency and resolution are very apparent. I am happy with the choice to go for the AT33, but I am still wanting to hear a Hana SL. ;)
but ATs can be really bright.
This isn't really bright. I would say nicely detailed.
My first impressions were of a cartridge that still needs to break in, but shows a lot of promise.
It has the AT sound I like of the 150MLX, but with a wider sound stage and better resolution.
walpurgis
13-04-2016, 19:56
I am happy with the choice to go for the AT33, but I am still wanting to hear a Hana SL. ;)
At that money. You owe it to yourself to try and get a listen to the ZYX R50 Bloom H.
Or go for the bargain Yatra I have found. ;)
I am just questioning if I "need" more than this for now.
walpurgis
13-04-2016, 19:59
but ATs can be really bright.
I've not used them, but reading user reviews, I gather the AT-32 and AT-33 variants suffer less from a perceived top forwardness than other AT MCs.
walpurgis
13-04-2016, 20:05
Or go for the bargain Yatra I have found. ;)
I am just questioning if I "need" more than this for now.
Ah. I'd forgotten you had one. Funny thing is, I find the Bloom as enjoyable as the Yatra.
I have not bought the Yatra yet.
So many cartridges, so little money... :eyebrows:
I have a Hana SL, I like it. When I get a chance I will do a comparison with the VDH 103r I also have.
Floyddroid
13-04-2016, 22:07
I would be interested to know your findings Nick.
I have a Hana SL, I like it. When I get a chance I will do a comparison with the VDH 103r I also have.
I have a Hana SL, I like it. When I get a chance I will do a comparison with the VDH 103r I also have.
Hi Nick,
would be interested to hear your thoughts on the Hana SL.
Hi Nick,
would be interested to hear your thoughts on the Hana SL.
As I say, I like it, good value for money. But without any common reference describing the sound would be little use. I used it in 12" Ortofon arm (RS-309). Tracked very well, low subjective distortion, good detail, good tone, not in your face HiFi, Don't have it in a working turntable ATM, missing it.
Clive197
23-04-2016, 16:03
I'm looking for a back-up cartridge for my Cadenza Black and have narrowed it down to the AT33Sa or the Hana SL both of which have Shibata styli similar to my Cadenza.
I'd be most interested in Nick's view of the Hana. Also I wonder what the SQ difference is between the AT33Sa & AT33PTG/II?
hifi_dave
23-04-2016, 16:08
The Hana has more body and weight than the Cadenza. It's an altogether more involving sound, more like Ortofons of old.
I have several very happy Hana customers now.
David (MCRU) went to the "Stulus" London show this weekend with my Hana SL and a VDH Retipped 103r, so if you were planning on going to that tomorrow, it might give you a chance to hear one.
Clive197
23-04-2016, 17:06
David (MCRU) went to the "Stulus" London show this weekend with my Hana SL and a VDH Retipped 103r, so if you were planning on going to that tomorrow, it might give you a chance to hear one.
Hi Nick
I went today, spoke to David but he told me that he didn't have a SL at the show.
Typical, was he playing music in the room?
Clive197
23-04-2016, 17:36
Typical, was he playing music in the room?
No ��
Just asked him. The Hana would not fit in the clearaudio arm for some odd reason. Will find out more next week.
Hi Kevin, what is your conclusion to the overall SQ of the AT33PTG cartridge?
Is it better than the 2M black?
I prefer it to the 2M Black. If it is "better" or not is down to personal taste.
I am still tempted to buy the Hana SL next week. :eek:
Clive197
24-04-2016, 12:14
Hi Kevin, what is your conclusion to the overall SQ of the AT33PTG cartridge?
Is it better than the 2M black?
With respect your not comparing like for like, one is a MC while the other is a MM. One would normally expect the AT in this instance to be better than the 2M.
I don't completely agree with that statement. I don't think that just because it's an MC it will be better. The 2M Black is a top of the range MM and is being compared to a mid range MC.
It would be interesting to compare the AT33 with a Music Maker III or an IQ3 and see how it does.
Bit unfair to judge the AT against the 2M as they are quite different cartridges and I agree with you Kev they do things differently and it is probably just a matter of taste.
The 2M however can certainly show a clean pair of heels to many MC cartridges, I certainly don't believe a MC cartridge is necessarily better than a MM. I will return the 2M one day with a new stylus but like yourself it's nice to try something new and explore MC's.
The other night however I was listening to my M55e/ Jico SAS and I felt it was better than either the 2M or indeed most MC cartridges I have heard! Unless you get the loading/head amp/SUT absolutely bang on with MCs they are tricky beasts to get right :)
I am not sure if you will like the Denon 301 mk2 if you find the At33ptg your cup of tea as the Denon has probably a mellower sound, not at all Hifi with a fairly neutral top end. You might find it a tad dull compared to the AT, just a heads up Kev.:)
Look forward to you thoughts on the Hana SL if you do buy one.
Clive197
24-04-2016, 12:52
I don't completely agree with that statement. I don't think that just because it's an MC it will be better. The 2M Black is a top of the range MM and is being compared to a mid range MC.
It would be interesting to compare the AT33 with a Music Maker III or an IQ3 and see how it does.
I agree that MC's are not definitely better than MM's. I was being specific to this example.
IMO MC's and MM's have different presentations and therefor aren't directly comparable. Personal preferences aside.
Bit unfair to judge the AT against the 2M as they are quite different cartridges and I agree with you Kev they do things differently and it is probably just a matter of taste.
The 2M however can certainly show a clean pair of heels to many MC cartridges, I certainly don't believe a MC cartridge is necessarily better than a MM. I will return the 2M one day with a new stylus but like yourself it's nice to try something new and explore MC's.
The other night however I was listening to my M55e/ Jico SAS and I felt it was better than either the 2M or indeed most MC cartridges I have heard! Unless you get the loading/head amp/SUT absolutely bang on with MCs they are tricky beasts to get right :)
I am not sure if you will like the Denon 301 mk2 if you find the At33ptg your cup of tea as the Denon has probably a mellower sound, not at all Hifi with a fairly neutral top end. You might find it a tad dull compared to the AT, just a heads up Kev.:)
Look forward to you thoughts on the Hana SL if you do buy one.
The Technics EPC-310 currently fitted is certainly make me think about things!
Clive197
26-04-2016, 10:05
Ok, I've pulled the trigger on a HanaSL (it would have been rude not too) and should get it in a few weeks. I've also decided to get the Audio Technica AT33Sa next April on my trip to Japan. I think barring accidents the 3 cartridges that I will own will be my last.
I will be nterested to hear your thoughts of the 33SA and of course the Hana SL when you get them.
It is one I considered, but went for the much cheaper 33PTG.
Ok, I've pulled the trigger on a HanaSL (it would have been rude not too) and should get it in a few weeks. I've also decided to get the Audio Technica AT33Sa next April on my trip to Japan. I think barring accidents the 3 cartridges that I will own will be my last.
Bloody hell Clive hope it's nothing serious?
I am considering a Hana SL myself so will be interested in your review.
Clive197
27-04-2016, 16:53
Slight addition to my plan. After surfing the interweb, I found a brand spanking new Audio Technica AT33PTG/II at a great price and when I phoned the supplier he gave another £40 off, so without wishing to be rude I bought it.
I'm still going with the previous plan, it just means I'll have 4 cartridges.:D:D:D
A nice dilemma to be in.
I hope to be ordering a Hana SL soon, unless I can convince the wife I really need a nice Dynavector XX2ii.
I think it will be the Hana which gets the sanction.
hifi_dave
28-04-2016, 08:59
Don't hesitate too long as the prices are to rise.
A weak Pound, strong Yen and European distributors moaning that the prices in the UK are too low, are to blame.
I hope to be in a suitable position tomorrow (pay day ;)).
Clive197
28-04-2016, 10:07
Don't hesitate too long as the prices are to rise.
A weak Pound, strong Yen and European distributors moaning that the prices in the UK are too low, are to blame.
Very interesting, I was partaking of a little surfing last night and came across the Japanese site for Audio Technica. It was in Japanese but with description and price in yen which was understandable. The cost, using my handy currency converter was quite a little higher than over here.
So may well have to rethink a purchase on my visit to Japan
Just one question - how similar is the SL to a 2M Black?
I have read that if you like what the 2M Black then a Hana SL is a good choice of MC cartridge for you. How much truth in this is there?
Clive197
28-04-2016, 12:02
Just one question - how similar is the SL to a 2M Black?
I have read that if you like what the 2M Black then a Hana SL is a good choice of MC cartridge for you. How much truth in this is there?
Probably very similar as they both have Shibata stylus profiles, except that one is MM & the other MC, which as already discussed will give a different presentation. Personal preference apply here, they are both similarly priced.
I have heard both but not at the same time. My personal preference is MC but you pays your money and takes your choice.
hifi_dave
28-04-2016, 12:54
The Hana has more body and presence. The Black is thinner, brighter.
That sounds right up my street.
walpurgis
28-04-2016, 14:05
MCs and MMs do not necessarily have different sound characters.
I've had MCs that you'd swear were pretty average MMs and non MCs that sound like what many would say an MC sounds like.
An Ortofon MC1 Turbo that passed through my hands, could have been mistaken for a cheap MM.
My ADC 10E Mk.IV MM (induced magnet actually) souded virtually identical to the Denon DL-103R I had. The similarity was striking, especially through the mid and top.
Clive197
28-04-2016, 16:02
Geoff, a MC1 Turbo wasn't one of Ortofon's high points and on a personal note I don't think they were as good as a cheap MM.
walpurgis
28-04-2016, 16:17
Geoff, a MC1 Turbo wasn't one of Ortofon's high points and on a personal note I don't think they were as good as a cheap MM.
It was pretty dire in my opinion Clive. The Sumiko BP is hardly better, another inadequate MC that came my way (very briefly).
hifi_dave
28-04-2016, 16:36
The Ortofon MC1 Turbo is not a good example of high o/p MCs.
And another comparison, how does it compare to the Nagaoka MP500 please?
Being a tad impatient, I have ordered an SL so I can see what all of the fuss is about. ;)
Hana SL is in the house :carrot::carrot:
Off to do some brush cutting, so won't have time until tonight for a play.
Hana SL is in the house :carrot::carrot:
Off to do some brush cutting, so won't have time until tonight for a play.
Can't wait to hear your thoughts Kevin!:)
hifi_dave
07-05-2016, 10:05
Hana SL is in the house :carrot::carrot:
Off to do some brush cutting, so won't have time until tonight for a play.
That took it's time..:scratch:
Bank holiday in France on Thursday.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7561/26832815466_1208c26582_z_d.jpg
First impressions.... It's very good.
Just listening to Stanley Road, and as Mr Weller says
You do something to me, Something deep inside :eyebrows:
Clive197
07-05-2016, 12:36
That looks really great Kevin. I'm still waiting for mine but David says its imminent.
Would be interested to read your thoughts on comparison with your AT33PTG/II which I also have. (Still in box unused..yet)
Ammonite Audio
07-05-2016, 12:57
I will have a Hana SL in for evaluation shortly. If it's as good as people say, and can hold its own against other players in roughly the same price bracket, I'll add the Hana range of cartridges to the shop.
It can certainly hold it's own. I am very happy with this.
The top end does not seem as extended as the AT, and it sounds a little less HiFi.
It seems like it is a very good cartridge but as I am only on my 3rd side it is far too early to pass judgement.
I just hope that the journey continues like it has started.
Ammonite Audio
07-05-2016, 13:48
Hana recommend loading in excess of 400 ohms - what are you using?
Not enough.
100 ohms at the moment.
Time to make some new loading plugs.
hifi_dave
07-05-2016, 16:16
That looks really great Kevin. I'm still waiting for mine but David says its imminent.
Would be interested to read your thoughts on comparison with your AT33PTG/II which I also have. (Still in box unused..yet)
I had two of each at the beginning of the week but now all gone apart from one HE.
Not bad for something no one had heard of a few weeks ago.
Firebottle
07-05-2016, 20:02
Not enough.
100 ohms at the moment.
Time to make some new loading plugs.
Just try it with no loading plugs, loading is 805 ohms. :)
Is was going to ask you about this as I saw it on the spec sheet.
RobbieGong
07-05-2016, 21:24
Fabulous Kevin, Genuinely hope it really hits the ole g spot (g for groove that is, what were you thinking :eek: :lol: )
If you like it half as much as I do the Ortofon QB then you'll be a very happy bunny indeed :)
Not enough.
100 ohms at the moment.
Time to make some new loading plugs.
30ohms o/p impedance? You probably need 7~10 times that for correct loading........
As Alan mentioned, I am now using 805 ohms, and I have to say I really like the cartridge footprint what it costs.
I am sure that there is better out there, but it will be more expensive and probably only a little bit better (law of diminishing returns etc.).
What I like - the detail, the tonality, the body to the sound. It does not seem to do anything wrong. It is certainly one of my better cartridges (not that I have many really good cartridges). As I said before, it is very musical and less HiFi sounding than the PTG/II. I like both, but the SL will be staying installed for a while to get it fully run in.
When it is run in, I may try and do a back to back comparison. Until that point, I don't think that many people would be disappointed with one of these. Definite vfm, and a "SPPV" contender.
One thing I don't like about the Hana - the stylus guard.
It's a bit fiddly putting it back on, but this is a minor complaint bearing in mind what this cartridge does musically.
Having followed your voyage of discovery on this Post Kevin, I am feeling that the AT33PTGii maybe my next choice of cartridge.
I have been following a blog similarly elsewhere and one chap went a lot further than you with his quest but this time used a VPI turntable and his list of cartridges included a Audio-Technica OC9 // AT150 MLX // AT33PTG // AT33PTG/II / Zyx Airy 3 // Zyx 4D // Ortofon A90 // Soundsmith Paua and he found the AT33PTG/II the best sounding of ALL of them.
You need to hear the Hana SL as well. ;)
It's a fuller bodied sound than the AT33PTG/II, and quite possibly my preferred choice.
I have the minor distraction of an EPC-U205mk3 that I am dealing with right now. A really dynamic cart that desperately needs a Jico SAS.
Ammonite Audio
11-05-2016, 09:16
I'd like to hear the AT33-SA, but it's quite a bit more expensive than the PTG.
I would as well, but you have to stop somewhere.
I'd like to hear the AT33-SA, but it's quite a bit more expensive than the PTG.
This has a higher output than the AT33Ptgii and a diamond line contact stylus. Could be quite an explicit sounding cartridge!
Ammonite Audio
11-05-2016, 09:58
This has a higher output than the AT33Ptgii and a diamond line contact stylus. Could be quite an explicit sounding cartridge!
A Shibata stylus, to be specific!
A Shibata stylus, to be specific!
Ah yes that's what there called. Similar to the 2M black?
This brings me back to another thread. The At33SA has an aluminium cantilever with a Shibata tip,mane the AT33PTG/II is boron with a microline? Why the big price increase for the AT33SA?
Just checked - they both have boron cantilevers.
This brings me back to another thread. The At33SA has an aluminium cantilever with a Shibata tip,mane the AT33PTG/II is boron with a microline? Why the big price increase for the AT33SA?
The AT33SA also has a Boron cantilever. I expect the price differential is all down to the diamond quality and difficulty in manufacturing a shibata profile. Also the AT33SA has different windings and internals.
RobbieGong
11-05-2016, 12:26
I've often read the term 'sophisticated profile' with regards to the Shibata stylus. It is classed as a 'high quality' stylus profile. Might have read that with regards to Ortofon Shibatas but I believe it applies generally with regard to Shibatas. They are known for digging deep into the groove resulting in lots of detail retrieval amongst other things ...
anubisgrau
11-05-2016, 12:54
This brings me back to another thread. The At33SA has an aluminium cantilever with a Shibata tip,mane the AT33PTG/II is boron with a microline? Why the big price increase for the AT33SA?
A Russian DST clone retails at $10,000 with alu cantilever and agricultural spherical needle tip. There are many strange things on our planet...
I've often read the term 'sophisticated profile' with regards to the Shibata stylus. It is classed as a 'high quality' stylus profile. Might have read that with regards to Ortofon Shibatas but I believe it applies generally with regard to Shibatas. They are known for digging deep into the groove resulting in lots of detail retrieval amongst other things ...
There is a good thread on vinyl engine about the different diamond profiles.
Microline profiles also dig deep, but in a slightly different way.
An interesting read - http://www.astrasuite.com/astrablog/audio-technica-at33sa-mc-phono-cartridge-shibata-stylus/
Spectral Morn
11-05-2016, 17:19
Having followed your voyage of discovery on this Post Kevin, I am feeling that the AT33PTGii maybe my next choice of cartridge.
I have been following a blog similarly elsewhere and one chap went a lot further than you with his quest but this time used a VPI turntable and his list of cartridges included a Audio-Technica OC9 // AT150 MLX // AT33PTG // AT33PTG/II / Zyx Airy 3 // Zyx 4D // Ortofon A90 // Soundsmith Paua and he found the AT33PTG/II the best sounding of ALL of them.
In HIS system, might not be true in yours.
RobbieGong
11-05-2016, 17:35
In HIS system, might not be true in yours.
+1 thought the same........ careful, there are some blinkin good carts amongst that lot.... ;)
So which would you pick to go in my system?
julesd68
11-05-2016, 17:52
I've not heard the Hana, but I certainly wouldn't want to give up any of the extended treble that my recently bought AT33PTG/II gives me.
My previous MM carts were ever so slightly rolled off in the treble and I'm enjoying the extra insight this cart brings. It certainly makes a great match with my Fidelity FRT-3 SUT.
A big bonus for me is that it does an equally good job with pop, rock or classical - a great all rounder.
I have not heard any rave reviews about the Hana SL yet but there is plenty of enthusiasm for the AT33PTGii out there and it is used in a great variety of systems.
Some of the things you mention Julian are what I am looking for in my next MC cartridge so again this endorses my thoughts in considering the AT33PTGII .
RobbieGong
11-05-2016, 19:07
So which would you pick to go in my system?
In your set up and having an idea of what you like, The Hana SL and / or the AT33SA :)
In your set up and having an idea of what you like, The Hana SL and / or the AT33SA :)
Forgot about the AT33SA Rob,it does look a tasty proposition.
To be honest the Denon 301 mk2 is right up there with the best I have heard in my system and I am nervous of spending a load of dosh on another cartridge at the moment.
No harm in having an eye on the next one though!:)
RobbieGong
11-05-2016, 19:29
Forgot about the AT33SA Rob,it does look a tasty proposition.
To be honest the Denon 301 mk2 is right up there with the best I have heard in my system and I am nervous of spending a load of dosh on another cartridge at the moment.
No harm in having an eye on the next one though!:)
Totally understand Jimbo. I'm a one cart kind of guy. If it hits the spot in that special way it's job done for me until such time. ;)
I think you would be happy with either.
I have just popped the AT33 back on and after the EPC-U205mk3 with it's elliptical stylus, it sounds superb.
Deep powerful bass, glorious mid range and extended (but not bright) highs.
I think you would be happy with either.
I have just popped the AT33 back on and after the EPC-U205mk3 with it's elliptical stylus, it sounds superb.
Deep powerful bass, glorious mid range and extended (but not bright) highs.
You are probably right there Kevin. No cartridge gives you absolutely everything you want but you can find much to like with many and I would presume the Hana and AT33 hit the spot in different ways.
I sometimes think cartridges are like boxes of chocolates, there are many in there that are very different but you can enjoy them all for there own unique flavour!:)
Clive197
20-05-2016, 13:09
YeHa! Finally my Hana SL has arrived at Clive Towers. Over the weekend and through next week I intend to run both cartridges (Hana SL & AT33PTG/II) and the do a comparison the following week-end. I don't think they will match or better my Cadenza Black but you never know I could be in for a surprise.
Clive197
28-05-2016, 11:09
Here we are 8 days after my last post. I have spent considerable time running-in the 2 cartridges which are the subject of this thread. After watching the Michael Fremer video that Bob4333 kindly posted I spent some hours setting both cartridges up with the tools I had available, so that obviously excluded oscilloscopes and specialised computer software that Michael Fremer says are needed.
I used the latest HiFi News Test Disc to establish tracking & Bias (both cartridges set at 2grms using a digital scale with platter mat removed as per the video) also checked the resonance frequencies for the cartridges in my Origin Live Encounter IIIA.
The reasonant frequency for the Audio Technica AT33PTG/II was 9hz with the Hana SL coming in at 11hz, both being within the green zone according Vinyl Engine. Interestingly both cartridges needed a slight lift of 2mm at counterweight end to get tonal balance correct to my ears. This according to Mr Fremer gives an extra half a degree vta.
Both cartridges failed to track as well as my Cadenza Black, close but no cigar.
I'm sure that it's the SQ that you are most interested in. Both cartridges truly excelled with the Hana SL just taking it giving a little more body and depth than my Cadenza but not quite as detailed and smooth. A truly excellent result considering that it's less then a third of the price. My only criticism is that it looks cheap and plasticy which is not for the same price what the AT33PTG/II does. This looks expensive and is well made. The AT also has great low end grunt but I found the top end a little brighter (certainly not as much as some AT's I've heard) than I prefer however much I fiddled with the vta.
To summerise, both cartridges are keepers and give my Cadenza a great run for the money, you would not be disappointed with either cartridges (plasticy Hana aside, which may in the future give an opportunity to modify the shell in the same way as a lot of you guys do to the Denon DL103).
Clive, thanks for taking time out to write this - user insights are always helpful. The Hana is something I'd not heard of until this thread but sounds like it should be on anyone's list when thinking of an MC cart in this price range.
The change in SQ with the AT33PTG/II as the hours accumulate has been more marked for me than any other cartridge I've owned. Makes you wonder what's going on in there, but as you say, a keeper.
Good stuff.:)
Note that price of the SH and SL versions are set to rise by £100+ (to £549) on 1st June, so if you fancy one is buy now 😉
The cheaper models will rise approx £60 too.
To summerise, both cartridges are keepers and give my Cadenza a great run for the money, you would not be disappointed with either cartridges (plasticy Hana aside, which may in the future give an opportunity to modify the shell in the same way as a lot of you guys do to the Denon DL103).
I have the Benz MC20E2-L which was also made by Excel. The electrical specs seem to indicate the generator is at least very close to the Hana models (also made by Excel) if not identical. It's an excellent cartridge for the money it used to go for (about 200EUR around 2010 or so), but it's held back by it's bonded elliptical stylus, and the built quality is horrible. It's ok where it matters the most, ie. stylus & cantilever, but the body is made of very skimpy plastic and the cart only weighs something like 4g. Being a relatively low compliance design, it was shipped with a 3g spacer/weight which is mandatory with most tonearms. I've always felt that cartridge has more in it that it's able to put out in stock form. The Hana range has obviously addressed the stylus tip issue and hopefully the body is also less resonant despite appearing 'plasticky'.
anubisgrau
29-05-2016, 15:11
I have the Benz MC20E2-L which was also made by Excel. The electrical specs seem to indicate the generator is at least very close to the Hana models (also made by Excel) if not identical. It's an excellent cartridge for the money it used to go for (about 200EUR around 2010 or so), but it's held back by it's bonded elliptical stylus, and the built quality is horrible. It's ok where it matters the most, ie. stylus & cantilever, but the body is made of very skimpy plastic and the cart only weighs something like 4g. Being a relatively low compliance design, it was shipped with a 3g spacer/weight which is mandatory with most tonearms. I've always felt that cartridge has more in it that it's able to put out in stock form. The Hana range has obviously addressed the stylus tip issue and hopefully the body is also less resonant despite appearing 'plasticky'.
it seems to be very popular to run some cartridges nude, especially those with plastic bodies prone to resonance. maybe you can try MC20E2/L like that...
it seems to be very popular to run some cartridges nude, especially those with plastic bodies prone to resonance. maybe you can try MC20E2/L like that...
The body construction is such that I don't think nuding it would be easy, but I have a solution... consisting of the stock spacer, a DIY graphite spacer and quite a bit of blutack. The cartridge is quite ugly in it's stock form with the 'hot pink' plastic body, adding some bluetack takes it into the truly horrible territory. It sounds pretty good though. I prefer the Ortofon MC10 Supreme, but I probably like the Benz better than the AT30E, though that one could go either way. The Benz has more oomph and sounds more dynamic, while the AT is more refined up top and generally more laid back.
http://i.imgur.com/NPt0HIZ.jpg
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