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Gazjam
04-04-2016, 15:34
Due to a significant upgrade to my 300B SET power amp I wondered if I was now getting the best out of the system with the cables I had.

Very happy with what I had in but just got...you know...curious? :)
Would different cables make any difference...was I getting the most out of my system with what I had?
So thought I'd do some reading and take a punt on a few different cables, see what they would do (or not!)
So began my next mission!

I'm using this thread to keep a track of my cable schennanigans, which I'll update as and when.
Looking at 3 areas; Digital connection between Dac and source, Interconnects and finally Speaker cable.
Ever curious if I can get better, chances are I might...or might not.
Won't know unless I try eh?

First up:
1) Digital hookup between Dac and Transporter

I had already been on a bit of a journey with this one...
First of all I used RCA to RCA, starting with Belden 1694A from Mark Grant.
After a few different cables in there, pure silver, silver plated, rhodium plated RCAs, litz construction etc, I came to the realisation that in my system even a Belden 1694A terminated with BNC's bettered any RCA cable I'd tried. So BNC better than RCA connection, cool.

Wondered though if a better cable might make an inprovement, so took a punt on one of these:
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Kit%20pics/Cables/3.jpg
It was a LOT better sounding to me than the Belden cable, so colour me happy. :)
Wrote about that cable here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?41208-Black-Cat-digital-cable-holey-moley!&highlight=holey+moley (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?41208-Black-Cat-digital-cable-holey-moley%21&highlight=holey+moley)

My dac/source offers choice of RCA, BNC and AES/EBU connections...and if BNC was better than RCA, what about the other one?
Was always curious about AES connection as compared to BNC.
Various arguments for both scattered across various forums, different specs and different uses for both cable types really brought home the need to just flippin' try both in your own system with your own ears.
Thats all that matters to me.

Going back to specs for a moment, there are some significant differences between BNC spdif and AES/XLR conenction?
BNC uses 75 ohm cable, AES uses 110 ohm.
AES cabling is fully balanced, and carries more voltage than BNC, to allow for longer runs without signal degridation due to noise on the cable.
BNC has better (apparently) impedance matching with precise 75 Ohm connectors, supposedly better for jitter rejection.
Depending on who you read, AES is supposedly terrible for digital as it works in higher frequencies which AES cable is NOT suited for due to RF/EMI and all that good stuff.

To me, all of this stuff is moot...
The only important factor and true test would be if any of these differences/advantages translate into better sound quality?
Who cares if it measures better if it sounds worse?
Again, you REALLY need to not pay attention to what you read but to what you hear...in your own system with your own ears.

I was curious about the best sounding digital hookup between my Young Dac and Transporter, and as I had all the options seemed a shame not to try 'em all.
So I set about tracking down the best sensibly priced XLR cable.
A cable by DH Labs from the USA kept coming up as a bit of a special cable, lots of positive buzz about it being able to embarass far more expensive cables.
http://www.silversonic.com/docs/products/D110.html
On the American Devialet forums, for instance, a guy there chooses to use it between his Devialet 200 and Bryston BDP-2.
This kit costs £5490 and £3125.
The guy obviously has a few bob and if it was good enough for him and his system it was good enough for me! :eek:

So postie brought it in today:
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Kit%20pics/D110%20XLR%20Digital%20cable/20160404_123531_HDR.jpghttp://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Kit%20pics/D110%20XLR%20Digital%20cable/20160404_123638_HDR.jpghttp://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Kit%20pics/D110%20XLR%20Digital%20cable/20160404_123656_HDR.jpg
Solid, really well constructed cable with connectors (apparently) DH Labs make themselves to get the best out of their cable...very high quality.
http://www.silversonic.com/docs/products/images/graph-D110.jpg

So hooked it up between the Transporter and my Young Dac and sat back for a listen.
Even fresh out the packet AES connection is NOTICABLY better.
With some time on it theres even a fair chance it will improve again.
The Blackcat cable is now connecting my Oppo bluray to the Dac, and sounds very nice too.
Result. :)

I'm very impressed and a little bit surprised, given that I'm using an extremely good BNC cable and the maker of the Transporter says AES was added to it "as an afterthought".
Absolutely goes to show don't go by what you read online, use your own ears.
Many factors as to why and how?
Ccould be the AES implementation in my Dac is better than BNC, could be the cable construction itself, the voltage difference and its interaction with my Dac...lots of things.
(but not expectation bias you understand...:eyebrows:)

Seriously though, I'm really curious about DH Labs cables now...
They do a complete range and hooking up my kit with their XLR cable is quite a dramatic improvement over what I had in before.
I'm so impressed with it and what its done to the sound of my system I'll be looking into their Interconnects and Speaker cables in the future.

To be continued...





2) Interconnects
Currently using Brians Klotz MC5000 with silver MS Audio plugs between Dac, Phonostage and Pre, and between my Pre and Power amp.

tbc...

3) Speaker cable
Using this stuff, braided Cat5e cable: http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html (http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html)

tbc...




(http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html)

rikardo1979
04-04-2016, 15:46
3) Speaker cable
[/COLOR]Using this stuff, braided Cat5e cable: http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html (http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html)

tbc...




(http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html)

I did have a same pair made myself few years ago. Than I made few other cables...now, few months ago I bought Chord Epic Twin, never going back to old stuff..

Gazjam
04-04-2016, 15:48
Big difference Richard between the Cat5 and the Chord Epic twin then?
Can borrow a set from my local dealer handily enough...

Firebottle
04-04-2016, 15:53
Due to a significant upgrade to my 300B SET power amp

Go on spill the beans........how?..............what?

We NEED to know :D

Gazjam
04-04-2016, 15:56
Go on spill the beans........how?..............what?

We NEED to know :D

The glowey bits on the 300Bs are now glowing a lot better Alan. ;)

lurcher
04-04-2016, 16:05
As to what: Lower noise fillament supply.
As to how: Ahh, well, that would be telling

:-)

Gazjam
04-04-2016, 16:16
See me being deliberately vague there Nick?
Me no spill...
:-)

rikardo1979
04-04-2016, 16:46
Big difference Richard between the Cat5 and the Chord Epic twin then?
Can borrow a set from my local dealer handily enough...

yes, really big difference :) I am a big skeptic when it comes to cables. Or better said I was :D Until I have tried pair of those which I have ordered very same day.
My dealer lend me a pair for home demo and I kept it for more than a week until my pair arrived :D I just couldn't go back to old cables

rikardo1979
04-04-2016, 16:51
these were my old cables

http://images4.static-bluray.com/htgallery/56861.jpghttp://images2.static-bluray.com/htgallery/56863.jpghttp://images.static-bluray.com/htgallery/56888.jpg

still got them somewhere in box :D I can send it to anyone who would take them . FREE :D for postage

jandl100
04-04-2016, 17:19
Ah, so proper audiophile cables can be better than cheap / pro stuff?

SURPRISE !!! ;)

Now I wonder what will happen with interconnects and speaker cables? :whistle:

Gazjam
04-04-2016, 17:19
Will try to have a listen to the Chord speaker cable you like Richard, can get a loan set I'm sure.


Thanks. :)

rikardo1979
04-04-2016, 17:31
Will try to have a listen to the Chord speaker cable you lke Richard, can get a loan set Im sure.


Thanks. :)

you not going to be disappointed, I am confident on this

Firebottle
04-04-2016, 17:40
As to what: Lower noise fillament supply.

:-)

Excellent :thumbsup:

Gazjam
04-04-2016, 18:29
Excellent :thumbsup:

Makes a helluva difference Alan, more than I expected.

Having a listen tommorow to the Firebottle MC stage out on loan.
Hoping it will be a cheap upgrade to the MC Stage in my Firebottle Plus...but its very very good already so who knows? :)

Gazjam
04-04-2016, 20:56
Ah, so proper audiophile cables can be better than cheap / pro stuff?

SURPRISE !!! ;)

Now I wonder what will happen with interconnects and speaker cables? :whistle:

Me too :)

CageyH
05-04-2016, 19:00
Ah, so proper audiophile cables can be better than cheap / pro stuff?

SURPRISE !!! ;)

Now I wonder what will happen with interconnects and speaker cables? :whistle:

Jerry,

The Atratus III is based on a relatively cheap cable compared to some "audiophile branded" stuff. ;)

Jimbo
05-04-2016, 20:05
Will try to have a listen to the Chord speaker cable you like Richard, can get a loan set I'm sure.


Thanks. :)

I run the Chord Epic twin cable Gaz in my system. Wouldn't use anything else, it has trounced every other speaker cable I have tried!

Gazjam
05-04-2016, 20:13
Sure you've tried a few exotic ones in your system too Jim, will pay it some attention!

SLS
12-04-2016, 06:51
I've just ordered a passive pre-amp from Khozmo and was going to these standard pro cables:

https://www.studiospares.com/Lead-Finder/Leads-XLR/Pro-Neutrik-XLR-Male---Female-Lead-60cm-Red_579152.htm?ne=AwAAAAgAAAAEA1JlZAsAAAAEAzAuNgsA AAAEAzAuNg==

Frazeur1
12-04-2016, 14:45
Gaz, I used that same AES/EBU cable between an ARC DAC-7 and CD2 player several years back. I also have used quite a bit of DH Labs cable, the BL1 interconnects in both single-ended and balanced, and also the T14 speaker cables.

One can certainly spend a lot more for cables if one wants, but this stuff I feel for the most part comes down to just solid construction, good connectors etc. and maybe a lot less foo/magic dust?

Gazjam
12-04-2016, 15:33
Timothy,
Get the same impression with the DH Labs stuff, having been stung by foo cables in the past.
Dont hear much about them here in the UK, but pretty consistent great reviews of the stuff online.

Seems to hit that sweet spot compared to more expensive wires.

Frazeur1
12-04-2016, 16:58
Indeed! Enjoy, good stuff.

SLS
04-05-2016, 13:04
I've just ordered a passive pre-amp from Khozmo and was going to these standard pro cables:

https://www.studiospares.com/Lead-Finder/Leads-XLR/Pro-Neutrik-XLR-Male---Female-Lead-60cm-Red_579152.htm?ne=AwAAAAgAAAAEA1JlZAsAAAAEAzAuNgsA AAAEAzAuNg==

Perfectly happy with these 0.6m XLR analogue interconnects.

Curiously I saw a similar cable at Mark Grant. In fact it is almost identical. They use the same Neutrik connectors. The MG uses Canare L4E6AT mic cable, which costs about £1.40/m. The StudioSpares uses SOMMER SC CLUB SERIES II MIC/LINE cable, which is possibly better as it is made from OFC copper and has marginally better shielding. It is slightly cheaper at just over £1/m.

https://markgrant.co.uk/audio-cables/37-xlr-to-xlr-single-cable-canare-l4e6at-star-quad-balanced.html#/22-length-0_75_metre

So effectively the same pro and consumer cables, the most costly bit (the connectors) being identical. StudioSpares costs £24 for a pair, Mark Grant £50.

I suppose Mark Grant also give you a nice box, StudioSpares are sold loose.