View Full Version : New Streaming Set Up - But What?
Background
As the hard drive on my Lenovo Ideacentre Mini PC has now failed (and I have no inclination to fix it), I have the opportunity to start again with a non PC based streaming installation.
http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee481/bob4333/hifi%20stuff/R0010126%20copy.jpg (http://s1230.photobucket.com/user/bob4333/media/hifi%20stuff/R0010126%20copy.jpg.html)
The Lenovo, (left stack in pic, middle row) running Windows 7, was dedicated to retrieving music from a USB connected hard drive, pushing the signal into a Leema DAC / Musical Fidelity Pre amp and thenceforth into the rest of the system. It had no other duties apart from running iTunes and MediaMonkey. The pre amp has been replaced since the pic with an Audio Research LS27.
As it was all computer based it meant that I also needed a screen on the wall, keyboard and mouse. It all ran fine until the HD failed. So, I’m now looking for a dedicated streamer.
Wants and Assumptions
Top priority is sound quality, closely followed by user interface. The PC derived stuff provided convenience rather than astounding SQ and was third in the ranking after CD (Leema Antilla IIs) with the top spot going to Vinyl. Give me a streamer that equals Vinyl SQ and I’ll junk everything else....:lol:
The new player will be app / tablet controlled so that I can lose the touch screen off the wall. Under this approach my DAC will also be surplus and therefore sold.
I am assuming the HD will not plug straight into a network player so I guess I’ll need to invest in a NAS UPnP device. There’s no interest in streaming around the house so I assume I can connect this directly into the back of the new player with an Ethernet cable. Correct?
Looking at.....
Pioneer N-50A discounted to £369
Pioneer N-70A around £900
Cambridge CXN £699
Cyrus Stream Xa around £1200
But - I’ve not heard any of these and am not overly sure the subtleties will be immediately apparent during an auditioning session, in a different room with different downstream kit, so I’m looking to narrow the field.
Expectation
It’s going to sound better than the mini PC derived sound and I can reduce my box count. Playing my iPod via a Pure i20 dock sounds better than the PC.
Questions?
1. Of the units listed, is there any single “stand out” player? My instinct and reading of reviews leads me to the Cyrus player – but the cash is still in pocket so I have choices.
2. Are there any players not listed that I should be considering? If there's a compelling reason to do so I'm prepared to spend more than the Cyrus, but SQ had better be good.
3. As I’m going to have to start again and rip my entire CD collection to files what format should I use? Assumption this time around is FLAC.
4. Any recommendations for a NAS storage device? Western Digital has served me well over the years. 3TB should easily future proof me.
5. Anything I’ve missed or should be aware of.........?
I'm not precious about any of this and am more than prepared to listen to views - so give me what you've got.
Simon_LDT
31-03-2016, 12:48
If it's just for music, what about a Raspberry Pi? I recently got one for streaming and playing all my hi-res files and it works a treat. Lots of members here have set up NAS storage to work with these and you should be able to hook it up to your existing DAC and then onto the rest of the system. Can be controlled using a phone/tablet/laptop, etc and there are plenty of easy to install Linux based operating systems you can try.
Well it's a thought, but I'm not overly looking to rekindle my love of computer based systems.
I definitely don't want a screen on the wall again so I'd need to look closer into this to see what's required. I have a feeling at the back of my mind that the PC processed audio wasn't giving me the best option in terms of sound - or maybe it was just the way it ran iTunes? Don't know.
Another vote for the Raspberry pi, I went from a Logitech Touch feeding a Bushmaster dac to a pi/Iqaudio dac combo and never looked back, for very little cost it's well worth a shout.
Simon_LDT
31-03-2016, 13:36
If you had a mini-pc I assume it had a fan/s? That doesn't help, plus the Power supply noise, etc are not friendly with SQ.
The Pi is linux based, which runs smoothly without any bloat of typical PC systems, no fans either. I'm no expert on this as I've only just recently got mine set-up and running, but I know there are others on here that are running all kinds of storage based systems off it, either by wired or wireless ethernet.
I was in a similar situation as you, albeit I was running my laptop into my DAC and yes it sounded pretty good but it was cumbersome and I had to use a pretty long cable to the DAC which I didn't like. I was looking at building a mini-pc but decided against it after finding out about the Pi.
Hopefully others will chime in soon.
rikardo1979
31-03-2016, 13:49
depend on how much you want to spend. there are great streamers from Naim, Linn...
But if you have a time and you like to fiddle around than RPi is great stuff. I using 3 at home, each for different purpose
But I going to buy Naim Superuniti soon so that is going to be my main music solution
Wayne Bull
31-03-2016, 18:13
Raspberry Pi - iQAudio Pi-Dac+ = Superb
My issue with buying a streamer is the fact that they continually change models, meaning older ones lose support, they don't stream all providers, they are far too expensive for what they do. Why spend hundreds of £'s on something that's out of date in a year or so.
Operating systems on android and iOS change as well, this also makes some apps outdated and unsupported.
My advice would be to buy a Pi setup for under £100, try it, if no good for you then try a dedicated streamer.
With my Pi I can access my NAS drive thereby playing every format. I can stream Qobuz and Tidal at full resolution, I can Airplay Spotify or Apple Music ( airplay isn't my preferred method but Spot and Apple aren't supported in Bubble uPnP across app yet ).
I can't believe people spend £100's and even £1000's on streamers, when at the end of the day they aren't any better than a Pi. Look at Bryston, they are entering the streaming market with....... A box with a Pi in it, and I bet it's more than £100 lol.
Streamers live and die by how good their apps are, and you just need to read all the reviews whether it be Android or iOS to see that they are all generally fairly average.
I'll buy a dedicated streamer when I find one that can do all the streaming providers and have a reliable non crashing app and the hardware is still supported in 10 years time ;)
Wayne Bull
31-03-2016, 19:04
My issue with buying a streamer is the fact that they continually change models, meaning older ones lose support, they don't stream all providers, they are far too expensive for what they do. Why spend hundreds of £'s on something that's out of date in a year or so.
Operating systems on android and iOS change as well, this also makes some apps outdated and unsupported.
My advice would be to buy a Pi setup for under £100, try it, if no good for you then try a dedicated streamer.
With my Pi I can access my NAS drive thereby playing every format. I can stream Qobuz and Tidal at full resolution, I can Airplay Spotify or Apple Music ( airplay isn't my preferred method but Spot and Apple aren't supported in Bubble uPnP across app yet ).
I can't believe people spend £100's and even £1000's on streamers, when at the end of the day they aren't any better than a Pi. Look at Bryston, they are entering the streaming market with....... A box with a Pi in it, and I bet it's more than £100 lol.
Streamers live and die by how good their apps are, and you just need to read all the reviews whether it be Android or iOS to see that they are all generally fairly average.
I'll buy a dedicated streamer when I find one that can do all the streaming providers and have a reliable non crashing app and the hardware is still supported in 10 years time ;)
Superbly put Mikey
rikardo1979
31-03-2016, 20:21
My issue with buying a streamer is the fact that they continually change models, meaning older ones lose support, they don't stream all providers, they are far too expensive for what they do. Why spend hundreds of £'s on something that's out of date in a year or so.
Operating systems on android and iOS change as well, this also makes some apps outdated and unsupported.
My advice would be to buy a Pi setup for under £100, try it, if no good for you then try a dedicated streamer.
With my Pi I can access my NAS drive thereby playing every format. I can stream Qobuz and Tidal at full resolution, I can Airplay Spotify or Apple Music ( airplay isn't my preferred method but Spot and Apple aren't supported in Bubble uPnP across app yet ).
I can't believe people spend £100's and even £1000's on streamers, when at the end of the day they aren't any better than a Pi. Look at Bryston, they are entering the streaming market with....... A box with a Pi in it, and I bet it's more than £100 lol.
Streamers live and die by how good their apps are, and you just need to read all the reviews whether it be Android or iOS to see that they are all generally fairly average.
I'll buy a dedicated streamer when I find one that can do all the streaming providers and have a reliable non crashing app and the hardware is still supported in 10 years time ;)
trouble is that RPi is not to everyone taste ;) You need at least some computer background to be able to set this properly.
I do have 3 RPis, but again, I live with computers since 90's :) and I just love RPi.
But give it to the majority of people and I guarantee it is going to end up in drawers...I know it as I was setting up a lot of them for friends, friends of friends ... none of them is using it anymore.
I started with Raspberry the day they came out with 1st one and I still using them. One is my media server, one is main multimedia solution with Kodi, 3rd one is inside of old Roberts radio...
But is not made for masses...it was designed as an learning platform and is great for that purpose and more if you like to fiddle with it
Background
As the hard drive on my Lenovo Ideacentre Mini PC has now failed (and I have no inclination to fix it), I have the opportunity to start again with a non PC based streaming installation.
http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee481/bob4333/hifi%20stuff/R0010126%20copy.jpg (http://s1230.photobucket.com/user/bob4333/media/hifi%20stuff/R0010126%20copy.jpg.html)
The Lenovo, (left stack in pic, middle row) running Windows 7, was dedicated to retrieving music from a USB connected hard drive, pushing the signal into a Leema DAC / Musical Fidelity Pre amp and thenceforth into the rest of the system. It had no other duties apart from running iTunes and MediaMonkey. The pre amp has been replaced since the pic with an Audio Research LS27.
As it was all computer based it meant that I also needed a screen on the wall, keyboard and mouse. It all ran fine until the HD failed. So, I’m now looking for a dedicated streamer.
Wants and Assumptions
Top priority is sound quality, closely followed by user interface. The PC derived stuff provided convenience rather than astounding SQ and was third in the ranking after CD (Leema Antilla IIs) with the top spot going to Vinyl. Give me a streamer that equals Vinyl SQ and I’ll junk everything else....:lol:
The new player will be app / tablet controlled so that I can lose the touch screen off the wall. Under this approach my DAC will also be surplus and therefore sold.
I am assuming the HD will not plug straight into a network player so I guess I’ll need to invest in a NAS UPnP device. There’s no interest in streaming around the house so I assume I can connect this directly into the back of the new player with an Ethernet cable. Correct?
Looking at.....
Pioneer N-50A discounted to £369
Pioneer N-70A around £900
Cambridge CXN £699
Cyrus Stream Xa around £1200
But - I’ve not heard any of these and am not overly sure the subtleties will be immediately apparent during an auditioning session, in a different room with different downstream kit, so I’m looking to narrow the field.
Expectation
It’s going to sound better than the mini PC derived sound and I can reduce my box count. Playing my iPod via a Pure i20 dock sounds better than the PC.
Questions?
1. Of the units listed, is there any single “stand out” player? My instinct and reading of reviews leads me to the Cyrus player – but the cash is still in pocket so I have choices.
2. Are there any players not listed that I should be considering? If there's a compelling reason to do so I'm prepared to spend more than the Cyrus, but SQ had better be good.
3. As I’m going to have to start again and rip my entire CD collection to files what format should I use? Assumption this time around is FLAC.
4. Any recommendations for a NAS storage device? Western Digital has served me well over the years. 3TB should easily future proof me.
5. Anything I’ve missed or should be aware of.........?
I'm not precious about any of this and am more than prepared to listen to views - so give me what you've got.
Been using the pi for some time. It gets easier all the time and Moode audio player software is excellent. Fairly easy to set up; plenty folk here who can help. You can use your HD on it plugging it direct into its usb socket. It can be used wifi, but its better on end of an ethernet for my money. Works through a browser of any tablet. SQ is as good as you will hear, and cost pennies in the grand scheme of things.
The writer/developer of Moode is a member here too.....whats not to like tbh.
Lovely system by the way...... oh and Marco loves his, which shows how good it can be.
Going in a different direction here.
Your system is a great one (Love the Orbe :)) so its resolving enough to show the difference between digital sources.
I have a Pi, a good one with IQ Audio Dac, built in linear PSU and passive pre.
Its good, but more (to me) "good for the money" than absolute good.
Each to their own but It's not as good as I'd hoped when I got it...so is used in an office 2nd system.
My Solution?
Find yourself a 2nd hand Logitech Transporter and use the digital out into your Dac. Seriously..its the best I've heard without paying 10K+
I dont say that lightly.
I've tried many routes to digital audio, had a self design/build Music Server which got a 5 star review in Hifi Choice (and I quote...)
"Sound quality that few CD Players can dream about. A degree of refinement that only the best record players can deliver."
...and the Transporter kicks it into the grass.
Compared it to a few of the Linn Streamers, the top one the Klimax IS better but not night and day...and the one-down Akurate is "different" not better imo.
The Transporter sounded better to me than all the others further down the range.
Had various other squeezeboxes from the SB3 to the Touch and even using its digital out the Transporter sits above them all.
A Squeezebox Touch into a Dac will NOT sound as good as the Transporter into the same Dac, especially if you use BNC or XLR digital hookup.
Transporter - good Dac - BNC or XLR digital cable and Job's a good 'un.
And it will be within budget too.
Cant help but think if you go down the Pi route yes it is cheaper, but if you have the money top spend you should as the Transporter is better.
In my opinion saving money here is a false economy, especially given the standard of the rest of your system.
Just my £0.02 :)
rikardo1979
31-03-2016, 22:06
Find yourself a 2nd hand Logitech Transporter and use the digital out into your Dac.
but that is discontinued product, isn't it? I quickly search and there are none in UK for sale
Discontinued yes Richard, but very much worth searching out in my opinion.
Buy it from Mars if it means you can have one. :)
rikardo1979
31-03-2016, 23:14
Discontinued yes Richard, but very much worth searching out in my opinion.
Buy it from Mars if it means you can have one. :)
im after Naim Superuniti as it is all in one package.
I am after amp, streamer for Tidal which can do good quality and is simple and intuitive.
I believe that is not easy to find any other solution better or close to it for same money.
If you know of something please tell me
Hi Richard,
If you want a Naim Superuniti then you should buy one! :)
Have you heard one though?
Its over £3500, which is a lot of money to spend if you dont know its better than anything else...
rikardo1979
01-04-2016, 05:31
Hi Richard,
If you want a Naim Superuniti then you should buy one! :)
Have you heard one though?
Its over £3500, which is a lot of money to spend if you dont know its better than anything else...
yup, I did hear it, tried it and waiting for demo piece for home test :)
It works great with our new speakers (Spendor D7) and I like to have all-in-one solution. I was trying to put something together in separates (amp+streamer) with same quality but could not find anything as good for same money. With decent amp and some simple solid streaming solution, the price was always higher. I talking about new gear here and not 2nd hand!
But if you have an better solution for same money or cheaper I would be more than happy to look into ;)
StanleyB
01-04-2016, 06:30
If you have that sort of money and you are happy with what you heard, then go for it. Most people have gone the Pi route, but I am still quite happy with my SB Touch.
rikardo1979
01-04-2016, 06:53
If you have that sort of money and you are happy with what you heard, then go for it. Most people have gone the Pi route, but I am still quite happy with my SB Touch.
edit: I would love to have something like this and spend £500 :D so if you have something what I can buy I would be more than happy ;)
I do use multiple RPi's myself :) Even as a main music streamer (locally stored files over NFS/SMB, and Tidal)
But I am not happy with the the Tidal implementation into and to operate I found it awkward. And because we are after new amp I decided to pick something decent and simple to work with that even my mum would be able to do :D
The Naim software in the device and all supported applications for multiple platforms makes my decision easier :) Its so well done and the support of the devices is great
Hi Rikardo,
You should get the Naim.
You've heard it and you like it...so go for it. :)
Sounds like it ticks all your boxes so it's what you should get.
rikardo1979
01-04-2016, 07:26
Hi Rikardo,
You should get the Naim.
You've heard it and you like it...so go for it. :)
Sounds like it ticks all your boxes so it's what you should get.
I still searching, every day :) honestly
No final decision is made, I have not ordered one just yet. I need to wait few weeks to put funds together so there is still time to find something better :) or same quality and cheaper?
StanleyB
01-04-2016, 07:34
There is a cracking good thread at http://theaudiostandard.net/thread/501/raspberry-based-audio-streamer-project that is well worth scanning through. Many of the guys who posted in that thread are also around here.
I myself used my old Sony Vaio VCP-Z1 as the basis for my music server. It is still a work in progress, but I decided to go that route so that I can keep all my audio and video related stuff on one machine. The laptop can be woken up from standby through my wifi network, and the DVD drive in it has been replaced with a bigger HD. I can control it via an Android app designed for the Touch. I have no doubt that it could run a Pi as well, and there are apps for that as well.
rikardo1979
01-04-2016, 07:44
Bluesound Node 2
Looks interesting
Your personal opinion on this device? Do you own one and had a chance to try?
Looks interesting
Your personal opinion on this device? Do you own one and had a chance to try?
Out of all the reviews I've read, and I've read them all for all devices, for me this one was the one I thought was for me. I'm a Tidal fan although currently use Apple Music as it let's the whole family (5 of us) stream for £14.99 a month total, I can't find a streamer that does Apple Music natively so thought I'd renew my Tidal sub purely for myself, which I've not done yet, but mainly because Apple Music isn't the same audio quality as Tidal, but for the price Apple is a no brainer.
The Bluesound team are former or current Naim employees and of all the reviews the Node 2 consistently marked it high for audio quality.
Would it beat my Pi, I'm not sure, would it be easier to operate, possibly, but then again it's always in the back of my mind, do I really need to spend another £430 on a device that doesn't do much more than I can do already.
I'd love something like the Cambridge CXN with the fancy colour screen and remote, but it's doesn't do Tidal or Apple, so again that one's out.
I looked at the Auralic Aries Mini, but again the app and device look glitchy for some users. In one video review it was mentioned that the Node 2 bettered it for sound quality.
So at the moment I'm using the Pi, I have just bought NuForce Icon iDo DAC/Headphone amp to plug my iPad in to send Apple Music to my amp, it arrives today so we'll see how that goes and sounds.
I think with streamers you first have to decide the services and features you want, then your budget, then you go with what machine you like the look of, in each price bracket I doubt there is much difference in audio quality.
It's just unfortunate for me, there is no one streamer that does all what I want it to do, there are dozens that do some and that's what is so frustrating.
The Superuniti looks great, and if it does what you want it to do then that's perfect for you, don't listen to us, listen to the music, after all that what really matters. I know where you're coming from as regards ease of operation, I've had a home cinema setup in my living room for over 10 years now and my wife still can't work it lol.
The only opinion that matters is you're own and at the end of the day it doesn't matter which one you buy, there will always be someone who says " what did you buy that for, you should have bought......."
PS: I don't own a 'proper' streamer........... Yet ;)
Check this YouTube video review out for the Bluesound Node 2, this reviewer is very good and gives a comprehensive run down on every gadget he covers. He's also done the Aries Mini, plus others.
https://youtu.be/K0lbdeDS-FM
rikardo1979
01-04-2016, 08:34
Out of all the reviews I've read, and I've read them all for all devices, for me this one was the one I thought was for me. I'm a Tidal fan although currently use Apple Music as it let's the whole family (5 of us) stream for £14.99 a month total, I can't find a streamer that does Apple Music natively so thought I'd renew my Tidal sub purely for myself. Mainly because Apple Music isn't the same audio quality as Tidal, but for the price it's a no brainer.
The Bluesound team are former or current Naim employees and of all the reviews the Node 2 consistently marked it high for audio quality.
Would it beat my Pi, I'm not sure, would it be easier to operate, possibly, but then again it's always in the back of my mind, do I ready need to spend another £430 on a device that doesn't do much more than I can do already.
I'd love something like the Cambridge CXN with the fancy colour screen and remote, but it's doesn't do Tidal or Apple, so again that one's out.
I looked at the Auralic Aries Mini, but again the app and device look glitchy for some users. In one video review it was mentioned that the Node 2 bettered it for sound quality.
So at the moment I'm using the Pi, I have just bought NuForce Icon iDo DAC/Headphone amp to plug my iPad in to send Apple Music to my amp, it arrives today so we'll see how that goes and sounds.
I think with streamers you first have to decide the services and features you want, then your budget, then you go with what machine you like the look of, in each price bracket I doubt they're much difference in audio quality.
It's just unfortunate for me, there is no one streamer that does all what I want it to do, there are dozens that do some and that's what is so frustrating.
The Superuniti looks great, and if it does what you want it to do then that's perfect for you, don't listen to us, listen to the music, after all that what really matters. I know where you're coming from as regards ease of operation, I've had a home cinema setup in my living room for over 10 years now and my wife still can't work it lol.
The only opinion that matters is you're own and at the end of the day it doesn't matter which one you buy, there will always be someone who says " what did you buy that for, you should have bought......."
PS: I don't own a 'proper' streamer........... Yet ;)
thanks
Looks you are in same shoes as myself :) I have been into this stuff for like 15 years, last 10 yeas into multimedia solutions.
I settled with video solution for our TV/home cinema, using Kodi. Use to have it on proper HTPC which I have sold after I started with Raspberry Pi which is still rocking. I just love that little device and cant imagine to have anything else hooked to my tv than RPi+Kodi combo
I use Tidal on it to at the moment, but the addon implementation is horrible. I hate it so much and thats what makes me start thinking of different, proper solution witch going to be "idiot" prove to operate. So RPi is out of the questions for me. I have tried all kind of OS, applications for it which none was good enough. I could live with such limitations as I live with computers my whole life but I need to think about my missus :)
I would like to try this Bluesound Node 2 as it really looks simple and well made softwarewise and similar to Naim. Yet again, no local dealer close to Poole :doh: so I have a choice, Southampton or Yeovil.
Than I would need to find an decent amp under £3k to go with this :)
The Android app, Bubble uPnP has built in control of Tidal that runs on my Pi.
Might be worth trying. Would save you a fortune. I used to use either my Tidal app (or Tidal on PC) to save artists, albums, playlists to my Tidal account, then I could use Bubble to stream it direct via the Pi to my amp. The Bubble app just used MoOde as the renderer, worked brilliantly.
In fact if I remember correctly, once you chose Tidal within Bubble, the interface was Tidal's.
rikardo1979
01-04-2016, 09:27
The Android app, Bubble uPnP has built in control of Tidal that runs on my Pi.
Might be worth trying. Would save you a fortune. I used to use either my Tidal app (or Tidal on PC) to save artists, albums, playlists to my Tidal account, then I could use Bubble to stream it direct via the Pi to my amp. The Bubble app just used MoOde as the renderer, worked brilliantly.
In fact if I remember correctly, once you chose Tidal within Bubble, the interface was Tidal's.
I am familiar with Bubble app but I was not aware about Tidal implementation. Will give it a go tonight ;)
Thanks for tip
Chunky70
01-04-2016, 11:38
Just buy a Gramofon. Only £50 or their abouts. Sounds brilliant:
https://gramofon.com/
Here's a review:
http://andreweverard.com/2015/08/14/review-network-music-and-more-with-a-gramofon/
Just buy a Gramofon. Only £50 or their abouts. Sounds brilliant:
https://gramofon.com/
Here's a review:
http://andreweverard.com/2015/08/14/review-network-music-and-more-with-a-gramofon/
Unfortunately doesn't do Tidal, review is 2 years old and was promising Tidal then, Gramafon website hasn't changed in the year since I last looked so don't hold your breath for Tidal being added, I hate it when these streamers are advertised with features 'coming soon' because they invariably never arrive.
Nice little gadget and I've checked them out before, along with Raumfeld, Cambridge, Auralic, Linn, SimAudio, Naim, Marantz, Pioneer, Sonos, Cyrus, I'm sure there's more, but you see where I am going with this, I'm pretty sure the Swiss Knife of Streamers just isn't out there :( :D
Chunky70
01-04-2016, 12:06
It does say Tidal coming soon on the website although they've been saying that since mid 2015! I only use spotify and stream from my own network and i love this little machine. Wi-fi is rock solid. Allplay radio is good as well. Such a shame their dragging heels on Tidal.
It does say Tidal coming soon on the website although they've been saying that since mid 2015! I only use spotify and stream from my own network and i love this little machine. Wi-fi is rock solid. Allplay radio is good as well. Such a shame their dragging heels on Tidal.
I think a lot of companies are the same, they promise things but never actually deliver on them, If I was buying any of them it would have to have the features installed at time of purchase just to be sure ;)
The review was dated 2104 and he mentioned Tidal was coming soon there too lol
Chunky70
01-04-2016, 12:18
I would imagine chromecast audio will get Tidal soon.
rikardo1979
01-04-2016, 12:22
I think a lot of companies are the same, they promise things but never actually deliver on them, If I was buying any of them it would have to have the features installed at time of purchase just to be sure ;)
The review was dated 2104 and he mentioned Tidal was coming soon there too lol
exactly this. If I buying stuff I want all features wanted by me to be implemented. I do not rely on promises :)
Well it's a thought, but I'm not overly looking to rekindle my love of computer based systems.
I definitely don't want a screen on the wall again so I'd need to look closer into this to see what's required. I have a feeling at the back of my mind that the PC processed audio wasn't giving me the best option in terms of sound - or maybe it was just the way it ran iTunes? Don't know.
Sorry for reposting my like for the audiophonics Pi kit but here goes.. seems to me to be an integrated solution with high quality components. I don't have one personally but maybe someone could chime in to report on the setup of this box.
http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-dac/audiophonics-raspdac-kit-diy-network-player-raspberry-pi-20-dac-sabre-v3-p-10384.html
http://www.audiophonics.fr/16485-thickbox_default/audiophonics-raspdac-kit-diy-network-player-raspberry-pi-20-dac-sabre-v3.jpg
rikardo1979
01-04-2016, 13:06
Sorry for reposting my like for the audiophonics Pi kit but here goes.. seems to me to be an integrated solution with high quality components. I don't have one personally but maybe someone could chime in to report on the setup of this box.
http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-dac/audiophonics-raspdac-kit-diy-network-player-raspberry-pi-20-dac-sabre-v3-p-10384.html
http://www.audiophonics.fr/16485-thickbox_default/audiophonics-raspdac-kit-diy-network-player-raspberry-pi-20-dac-sabre-v3.jpg
that is not for sale just yet and no UK distributor I am afraid
Unfortunately doesn't do Tidal, review is 2 years old and was promising Tidal then, Gramafon website hasn't changed in the year since I last looked so don't hold your breath for Tidal being added, I hate it when these streamers are advertised with features 'coming soon' because they invariably never arrive.
Nice little gadget and I've checked them out before, along with Raumfeld, Cambridge, Auralic, Linn, SimAudio, Naim, Marantz, Pioneer, Sonos, Cyrus, I'm sure there's more, but you see where I am going with this, I'm pretty sure the Swiss Knife of Streamers just isn't out there :( :D
You left out Squeezebox.... :)
Old, but does the lot.
that is not for sale just yet and no UK distributor I am afraid
It is, direct from France - and someone on this forum has already built one and reported back a while ago ... can't remember which thread though.
Not very straightforward as I recall although there is some support (in English) on the audiophonics forum.
that is not for sale just yet and no UK distributor I am afraid
I've got the kit version - you can buy them from Audiophonics (http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/appareils-hifi-dac/audiophonics-raspdac-network-player-raspberry-pi-20-dac-sabre-v3-p-10369.html) easily enough.
Have you looked at the Cocktail (http://www.cocktailaudio.co.uk/) kit? I've heard a lot of good things about the top of the range Cocktail X40 (http://www.cocktailaudio.co.uk/x40.shtml)
http://www.cocktailaudio.co.uk/img/x40_1.png
However, at the cheaper end they've recently released the Cocktail Pro X100 (http://www.cocktailaudio.co.uk/pro-x100.shtml)
http://www.cocktailaudio.co.uk/img/pro/pro_100-main.jpg
Bob4333, thats a wide spread question!
I have had a Pioneer N-50 and N-70A, both excellent streamers. The latter one (A-model) sounds absolutely marvellous with it's Sabre ES9016 chip and balanced outputs. the A-models have great USB drive handling and the control App on iOS is much better than most alternatives. (Of course demands a good wired/WLAN infrastructure for remote control and Spotify Connect and Internet Radio)
I also have a couple of Bluesound Node's, one is the new 2-model. The new BluOS 2.0 is quite good, up there with the best management apps (Sonos) These sound great, particularly the Node 2, improves upon the previous Node both via digital out and its analog outputs. Its equal or better than my older Pioneer N-50 but not up to the quality of the N-70A. Differences are not big though...
What i personally use for most of my primary Hifi is a Bladelius Embla Classic streamer/pre/DAC which is mostly fed flac files from internal SSD, external USB Hd or fed by a MacMini/Gustard U12 with Roon Labs software.
There is no doubt that Roon Labs gives the best handling and ux, and sound wise it is very, very close to the best i can manage digitally (which is Embla playing files from internal SSD)
The MacMini gets its music from a QNAP NAS and sounds absolutely best that way, don't use USB drives at the same time as using USB audio products imo!
To summarize, there are many roads that lead to Rome, but you need to find the one that fits your needs best! :)
rikardo1979
02-04-2016, 05:32
I am familiar with Bubble app but I was not aware about Tidal implementation. Will give it a go tonight ;)
Thanks for tip
The Android app, Bubble uPnP has built in control of Tidal that runs on my Pi.
Might be worth trying. Would save you a fortune. I used to use either my Tidal app (or Tidal on PC) to save artists, albums, playlists to my Tidal account, then I could use Bubble to stream it direct via the Pi to my amp. The Bubble app just used MoOde as the renderer, worked brilliantly.
In fact if I remember correctly, once you chose Tidal within Bubble, the interface was Tidal's.
I have tried the Bubble uPnP Beta last night and its brilliant. I like the cloud implementation, Tidal included. All works and it easy to navigate. Thank you for this information
So now I really thing I may stay on RPi solution even for music :D But for this I would need some good DAC for it cos now it is connected over HDMI into AVR.
With this solution I may buy a different amp now and maybe better as I can still use same budget which is £3.5k :D Not sure if that would be overkill for Spendor D7 which are at same price?
I would like to have some good British HiFi brand probably, Naim, Sugden...but I also like Copland CTA 405 or something like this
Glad Bubble worked out for you, for an amp it might be worth trying Firebottle's Air Power amp and borrow a pre amp to try it out. For the money it is superb and if I didn't already own a TQ Claymore that retailed at £3760 I'd have bought the Air as it was that close in audio quality with only subtle differences.
Don't be hung up on spending 3.5k on a new product, you could have something just as good if not better by spending it on something second hand.
Jerry (jandl100) on here might be able to advise on an amp, I think he's tried a few ;)
I paid around £1200 for my Claymore and there are plenty other deals to be had in here and other Forums.
My other amp is an older Claymore 2 and it kicks ass too, Jerry has the mk1 and swears by it. These can both be picked up for under £350, the Restek he is selling is a cracker too by all accounts, and it's £350 or so, remember the higher you go up the money chain doesn't necessarily gain you a helluva lot more in terms of sound.
If I'd read these forums BEFORE spending my money I'd have saved £100's.
A wide variety of opinions so thanks to all. Having read and digested the assembled views I realise perhaps it's a music server not a streamer that I need; assuming there's a distinction. Something akin to a "Juke Box" that gives me easy access to my CD collection or tracks thereof. How often do we put a CD on and listen to the whole thing? Well sometimes I know but not every CD.
I don't particularly need radio, wifi or the ability to pick up music in any room in the house - although if these features come along as baggage with a player and the SQ is excellent it won't stop me buying it. If it's a directly wired NAS device I need to hook into the player I presume I can load it via the desktop then plug it into the system.
Raspberry Pi seems to have got a lot of support but this looks like the start of a new hobby and not something I need right now. Maybe something on the back burner to try later in the year just to see if I can. Anyone point me to an "idiots Guide" so I can read it up?
The Logitec Transporter looks an intriguing piece of kit. They're still available new in the US for about £500 (without the Transnav knob) but are now a retired product. I can just imagine buying one, and finding out its faulty with the vendor 4000 miles away. Bit of a risk............
The Naim Superuniti is the answer to a different problem and I'm not ready to chuck everything else out as I appreciate what I get in terms of SQ. If I had to start again I'd buy the same again. For me it works that well. I know Naim has its fan base but on the two occasions I've auditioned Naim (amp and CD player) there was always something better sounding for the same or less cash. Maybe the Naim ND5 XS Network Player could be the breakthrough this time? I just loathe the auditioning process. Maybe I need to just suck it up and get on with it and see?
Yes the Lenovo mini PC did have cooling fans and undoubtedly would have dirtied the power supply at the very least. I won't go with PC driven streaming again, and one reason I wasn't exactly in tears when it went "pop".
Thanks Mike (AlfaGTV) for having a go at directly answering the question and yes, I now realise that it's a bigger question than first appears. The general silence in terms of comment on the players I've listed is deafening.
Bluesound and Cocktail Audio are not companies I'd looked at but will now.
As I've said, the cash is still in my pocket so I'll keep looking. Any further insight? Keep it coming.
rikardo1979
02-04-2016, 11:15
Glad Bubble worked out for you, for an amp it might be worth trying Firebottle's Air Power amp and borrow a pre amp to try it out. For the money it is superb and if I didn't already own a TQ Claymore that retailed at £3760 I'd have bought the Air as it was that close in audio quality with only subtle differences.
Don't be hung up on spending 3.5k on a new product, you could have something just as good if not better by spending it on something second hand.
Jerry (jandl100) on here might be able to advise on an amp, I think he's tried a few ;)
I paid around £1200 for my Claymore and there are plenty other deals to be had in here and other Forums.
My other amp is an older Claymore 2 and it kicks ass too, Jerry has the mk1 and swears by it. These can both be picked up for under £350, the Restek he is selling is a cracker too by all accounts, and it's £350 or so, remember the higher you go up the money chain doesn't necessarily gain you a helluva lot more in terms of sound.
If I'd read these forums BEFORE spending my money I'd have saved £100's.
Problem is that I have to rely on whats available to me from local dealers. I simply do not have a time to travel across the country to try and listen to other stuff. I working 6 days a week so no chance to do that
Raspberry Pi seems to have got a lot of support but this looks like the start of a new hobby and not something I need right now. Maybe something on the back burner to try later in the year just to see if I can. Anyone point me to an "idiots Guide" so I can read it up?
I found this a fairly straightforward guide when I first got into the Pi - gives you the basics to get started and after that you can try alternative hardware add ons, software players and such:
http://theaudiostandard.net/thread/1241/build-raspberry-based-audio-streamer?page=1&scrollTo=33612
The Logitec Transporter looks an intriguing piece of kit. They're still available new in the US for about £500.
Hi,
Do you have a link for this please?
Would like to like to pick up a spare.
Thanks.
I found this a fairly straightforward guide when I first got into the Pi - gives you the basics to get started and after that you can try alternative hardware add ons, software players and such:
http://theaudiostandard.net/thread/1241/build-raspberry-based-audio-streamer?page=1&scrollTo=33612
Thanks Mike, for the cost involved that looks like an interesting project for a wet afternoon or two. Might give it a go when the days go short again.
Bob
Hi,
Do you have a link for this please?
Would like to like to pick up a spare.
Thanks.
Sure.
Auction: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162024732856?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
BIN: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161467812078?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Used, but with a knob: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172151059508?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
There are more about but also in the US. Have to say they do look good.
Thanks.
Honestly Bob, I've never heard better sounding digital short of spending ridiculous ammounts of money, especially if you already have a good dac.
Top of the tree imo and just at the point where expensive diminishing returns kicks in.
The squeezebox software is bulletproof and despite no longer being officially supported by Logitech, theres massive user support from squeezebox forums.
All the streaming services are catered for and there is a massive ammount of plug-ins for internet radio, youtube you name it.
Check it out. :)
rikardo1979
03-04-2016, 08:54
I have just ordered AUDIOPHONICS I-Sabre V3 DAC ES9023 TCXO (http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-dac/audiophonics-i-sabre-dac-es9023-v2-tcxo-raspberry-pi-20-a-b-i2s-p-10657.html) with case (http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-dac/audiophonics-raspdac-kit-diy-network-player-for-raspberry-pi-20-dac-p-10511.html). I have few RPis at home so did not order full kit
Will see how it works :)
Thanks.
Honestly Bob, I've never heard better sounding digital short of spending ridiculous ammounts of money, especially if you already have a good dac.
Top of the tree imo and just at the point where expensive diminishing returns kicks in.
The squeezebox software is bulletproof and despite no longer being officially supported by Logitech, theres massive user support from squeezebox forums.
All the streaming services are catered for and there is a massive ammount of plug-ins for internet radio, youtube you name it.
Check it out. :)
I've been a SqueezeBox user since 2009, and was naturally quite nervous when Logitech stopped production of the client devices, hence I bought a spare Touch just in case.
I needn't have bothered, in fact I now have 2 Touches on the subs bench, as the Touch I was using in my kitchen system has now been superseded by an IQaudio Pi DAC running piCorePlayer/Squeezelite.
I my experience the SB clients (receiver/duet excluded), are extremely robust and reliable, and as Gaz states when used in conjunction with a good DAC can sound superb.
The other advantages are that firstly because it's open source, and supported by a large community, is pretty future proof, and secondly it offers compatibility with the new world of DIY Pi Clients/DACs...one can even choose from multiple different firmware offerings.
And there are plenty of controller (and even player) apps out there for your mobile devices
Once you get LMS running on a server, the rest is a doddle :)
rikardo1979
03-04-2016, 16:57
Ive just pulled out an old Nexus 5 from drawers and I have a perfect remote(Bubble uPnP (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bubblesoft.android.bubbleupnp) Beta) for RPi streamer with XBian (http://www.xbian.org/)/Kodi (https://kodi.tv/download/)(Tidal addon).
Now just wait for the Audiophonics RaspDAC (http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/appareils-hifi-dac/audiophonics-raspdac-network-player-raspberry-pi-20-dac-sabre-v3-p-10369.html), thanks to Rupert/@r100 and Rob/@RoggieB
http://snag.gy/LOyNb.jpg
Thanks to Mike/@mikeyb for bringing this Bubble app to this discussion ;)
:cheers:
No worries. You might need to pay for the full Bubble app as I think the streaming is limited to 15 minutes in the beta version?
rikardo1979
03-04-2016, 19:09
No worries. You might need to pay for the full Bubble app as I think the streaming is limited to 15 minutes in the beta version?
not sure just yet. I have found that you have limitation on songs in playlist only 16. I do not mind to buy this app if I find it to be good. Few more days of testing and will see
not sure just yet. I have found that you have limitation on songs in playlist only 16. I do not mind to buy this app if I find it to be good. Few more days of testing and will see
Ah that might be it, it was perhaps 15 songs before :)
rikardo1979
04-04-2016, 15:41
another limitation is that the cloud services like Tidal are not fully implemented and after a quick chat with developers he confirm he has no intention to do so.
So you can not really work with Tidal directly, edit playlists, add/remove albums/songs, etc... all this can be done only within app itself and is not going to appear on cloud service.
So to do so you would need to go to Tidal from app or from web browser and than you would see this changes in Bubble uPnP... not the best I would say so I am not sure I want to pay for app with missing feature like this is
rikardo1979
06-04-2016, 16:21
I just got the Lenovo Yoga 3 (http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/lenovo-yoga-tab-3-8-inch-16gb-tablet-129-99-argos-2426386?p=27736573) tablet yesterday so remote control for streaming is solved :)
There is a good deal on this now and I like the design with built in kick stand
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfXzaayXEAAqItg.jpghttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfXzafkWAAEjT-o.jpg
rikardo1979
07-04-2016, 14:43
lets have some fun tonight :D :cool:
http://snag.gy/Q2eE6.jpg
:dance:
lets have some fun tonight :D :cool:
http://snag.gy/Q2eE6.jpg
:dance:
I'll give you £50 for it right now, save you any grief ;)
rikardo1979
07-04-2016, 15:07
I'll give you £50 for it right now, save you any grief ;)
I am :cool: m8 :smoking: I use to work in SMT, running the whole production on automated machines and doing hand builds and rework, all sorts. Soldering down to 0201s so I should be fine
But thanks for your generous offer :ner:
Damn lol.
Be good to see it once finished as I've been watching these to do one myself but other HiFi buys have been getting in the way
rikardo1979
07-04-2016, 16:23
Damn lol.
Be good to see it once finished as I've been watching these to do one myself but other HiFi buys have been getting in the way
so you built one of these yourself before? As I am little bit surprised finding no instructions what so ever :scratch::confused:
so you built one of these yourself before? As I am little bit surprised finding no instructions what so ever :scratch::confused:
No, but keen to see what you think once built.
rikardo1979
07-04-2016, 19:42
No, but keen to see what you think once built.
I have done some bits tonight but I have realized I do not have all parts needed included in the kit :doh: my bad I haven't checked the site properly.
I can not wire the button and the screen as I have no wires for that :scratch:
But rest is mostly done, as there is not much to do anyway :D
http://snag.gy/tZFzf.jpg
Now the hardest part for me, software :violin:
I am not the guy who live in code so this going to take a while. I do not want to use what they offer. So I need to figure out how to use it with XBian which is an Kodi distro :D
But I think I have to leave it for weekend
]this is apparently a touchscreen prototype http://www.audiophonics.fr is working on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8YsMW2LqkI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8YsMW2LqkI
hughandella
13-04-2016, 07:01
A wide variety of opinions so thanks to all. Having read and digested the assembled views I realise perhaps it's a music server not a streamer that I need; assuming there's a distinction. Something akin to a "Juke Box" that gives me easy access to my CD collection or tracks thereof. How often do we put a CD on and listen to the whole thing? Well sometimes I know but not every CD.
I don't particularly need radio, wifi or the ability to pick up music in any room in the house - although if these features come along as baggage with a player and the SQ is excellent it won't stop me buying it. If it's a directly wired NAS device I need to hook into the player I presume I can load it via the desktop then plug it into the system.
Raspberry Pi seems to have got a lot of support but this looks like the start of a new hobby and not something I need right now. Maybe something on the back burner to try later in the year just to see if I can. Anyone point me to an "idiots Guide" so I can read it up?
The Logitec Transporter looks an intriguing piece of kit. They're still available new in the US for about £500 (without the Transnav knob) but are now a retired product. I can just imagine buying one, and finding out its faulty with the vendor 4000 miles away. Bit of a risk............
The Naim Superuniti is the answer to a different problem and I'm not ready to chuck everything else out as I appreciate what I get in terms of SQ. If I had to start again I'd buy the same again. For me it works that well. I know Naim has its fan base but on the two occasions I've auditioned Naim (amp and CD player) there was always something better sounding for the same or less cash. Maybe the Naim ND5 XS Network Player could be the breakthrough this time? I just loathe the auditioning process. Maybe I need to just suck it up and get on with it and see?
Yes the Lenovo mini PC did have cooling fans and undoubtedly would have dirtied the power supply at the very least. I won't go with PC driven streaming again, and one reason I wasn't exactly in tears when it went "pop".
Thanks Mike (AlfaGTV) for having a go at directly answering the question and yes, I now realise that it's a bigger question than first appears. The general silence in terms of comment on the players I've listed is deafening.
Bluesound and Cocktail Audio are not companies I'd looked at but will now.
As I've said, the cash is still in my pocket so I'll keep looking. Any further insight? Keep it coming.
I'm a bit late coming to this but I'd certainly look at Innuos http://innuos.com/en ---- I have one and the platform is open so lots of apps developed etc ..... excellent customer support too .... I will risk ire but I'm not a big fan of Naim sound and you can keep your current DAC etc ---- I've also been convinced that the USB/SPDIF conversion is as important as the DAC and personally use a SW1X transport for that job ..... you're welcome to come over for a listen if you'd like
I've taken the easy way out and gone for a ready made solution as opposed to a development programme.
A couple of days ago I took delivery of a Cyrus Stream X2, nipped out to Curry's and bought a Western Digital 3TB NAS and spent an hour setting it up and transferring files across. Couldn't believe how simple it was.
So the chain is NAS drive - Router - Stream X2 - DAC - Preamp - Poweramp - Speakers.
Even though it's only running on WiFi at present the result has astounded me.
The sound is rich and full, plenty of detail and sparkly delight, taught bass and shimmering cymbals. This is a night and day contrast to the PC derived signal which was perhaps convenient but not something you could fall in love with.
The Cyrus Cadence control app downloaded painlessly onto my Samsung Android 'phone and sort of controls things, but, what shall I say - "needs work" in terms of functionality. BubbleUPnP works better but there are a couple of others to try before I'm settled. Never thought I'd say it but I miss the functionality of iTunes. There is a possibility that Media Monkey can be configured to run the lot but that's an investigation in progress - unless anyone can advise me they've already done it?
The router and music room are on different floors in the house so I'm just studying the cable route the alarm people used so I can install a hard wired Cat 5e network without lifting too many floor boards. Seems doable.
So, thanks for the views, the demo offer from Chris (hughandella) and the insight into the RPi club. Takes me back to the Sinclair ZX81 in the early 80's. Now that WAS a hobby.:lol:
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