View Full Version : Garage Conversion
As per the title, I have an opportunity to build a room within a room in my brick built garage. As I said the walls are single brick sat on a concrete pad. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible, so it'll be a floating floor and then 3x2 stud wall with rock wool insulation throughout. I'm getting a joiner to do the stud work for me.
So there are two points really, first does anyone have any useful tips before I start? And secondly and probably more importantly, what size should I make it? Two of the dimensions are fixed. The width will be 9ft, maybe a couple of inches more. The height will be about 7ft, possible reducing toward the back of the garage. So what length should I make it? I can go to about 16ft. Should I make it as long as I can, or does the golden ratio come into effect? I have no clue about these things, so any input would be most welcome. I use Harbeth P3ESR's at the moment.
Thanks for any input...
Golden ratio (or any other acoustic ratio for that matter) certainly doesn't hurt. Generally, being of the caveman persuasion I'd suggest 'as large as practical' and if it's golden or another acoustic ratio then so much the better (although if you can avoid a direct multiple, well & good). Thing is, the dimensions of the room are only one factor and usually aren't the dominant one since construction materials are quite likely to have a larger effect and there are always things you can do to disperse or damp things out as required. Like speaker cabinets, it's generally better to have them over-sized. If you've got too much of something, there are things you can do to get rid of what you don't need. It's generally harder to increase what doesn't exist in the first place.
A floating floor isn't the beau ideal, ditto for stud-walls, but then, most houses are built like that, so you've plenty of company. I suspect it'll leach out some bass energy though. If possible, you might want to look at a couple of concrete plinths coming up through the floating floor to put the speakers on. Granted that does tie you to specific positions; you could use George Cardas's guidelines http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php which may help provide a general guide. Not a panacea, but they should serve as a starting point. That's my quick & dirty take anyway. Of course, it's all very easy for us to make suggestions since it's not our money. ;) Hence the reason I suggest doing what you can to hedge your bets rather than necessarily following any fixed / proscriptive formula.
Some of the soundproofing plasterboard might help a bit with the bass leaching.. just hope your strong coz they weigh a ton lol
Thank you Scott, that looks like a good place to start at least. Thanks for taking the time to reply...
Cheers buddy
Some of the soundproofing plasterboard might help a bit with the bass leaching.. just hope your strong coz they weigh a ton lol
That's a good point too, thank you
I did what you are intending to do about 7 years ago. I have a large double garage and built a room in half of it. As it was single skin I (yes I did all the work:D) put Synthaprufe on the external walls (lovely job!) then battened it all. A carpenter friend sourced all the materials for me which included fibreglass insulation that he said was not only for heat insulation, but had acoustic deadening properties as well, Cellotex sheets and acoustic grade plasterboard (a 1200x2400 sheet weighed about 80lbs) Two of us tried to put the plasterboard sheets up for the ceiling.......:lol:even with supports we failed and ended up with one "holed" board. it took three of us to do the ceiling.
My room is about 9.5ft x 19ft. Not an ideal shape but it is as it is. I get an LF boom prob around 200Hz, but with clever tuning it is not too much of a problem. What it does give me is :-
A virtually sound-proofed room
Somewhere I can listen with no hassle
It is a shit-hole most of the time:D
Mine is a concrete floor. I painted it, and put 2 layers of underfelt and an old carpet that we just renewed in our bedroom and it is very good.
StanleyB
29-03-2016, 17:49
It is a shit-hole most of the time:D
One man's shit hole is another man's paradise :).
I did what you are intending to do about 7 years ago. I have a large double garage and built a room in half of it. As it was single skin I (yes I did all the work:D) put Synthaprufe on the external walls (lovely job!) then battened it all. A carpenter friend sourced all the materials for me which included fibreglass insulation that he said was not only for heat insulation, but had acoustic deadening properties as well, Cellotex sheets and acoustic grade plasterboard (a 1200x2400 sheet weighed about 80lbs) Two of us tried to put the plasterboard sheets up for the ceiling.......:lol:even with supports we failed and ended up with one "holed" board. it took three of us to do the ceiling.
My room is about 9.5ft x 19ft. Not an ideal shape but it is as it is. I get an LF boom prob around 200Hz, but with clever tuning it is not too much of a problem. What it does give me is :-
A virtually sound-proofed room
Somewhere I can listen with no hassle
It is a shit-hole most of the time:D
Mine is a concrete floor. I painted it, and put 2 layers of underfelt and an old carpet that we just renewed in our bedroom and it is very good.
Aye my son in law sometimes uses it.. says its heavy, even for him, and he is a big lad.. as you say a 2 man job just getting it in position sometimes.
Interesting thread.
Ive been thinking about trying to do something similar.
With no prior knowledge or experience, I thought of building a breeze block room, straight off the concrete floor.
I would want it as sound proof as possible but my worries were noise escaping through the roof of this new room and through the door into it.
Any thoughts on how to overcome the noise "bleed" problem.
Rothchild
29-03-2016, 18:56
What are your priorities? Sound proof or 'nice' sounding? (you can (sort of) do both but it's exceptionally costly and difficult for a space that size).
There are a whole bunch of calculators online for working out what the problems are going to be based on the dimensions you have, I'm afraid you're unlikely to have sufficient adjustable space to make a significant difference to the modes/nodes that will occur with those dimensions - you need something at least as long as the lowest frequency, a 20Hz wave is something like 13m long.
Anyway try searching for room mode calculators, theres one here: http://amroc.andymel.eu/
Also worth looking at the john sayers studio forum, lots of thoughts, plans and discussion around the various issues of soundproofing and acoustic treatment. http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php
I converted my garage in to my studio room, I set in a very large gap between the exterior and interior walls - enough to put celotex in for thermal regs and a bunch of super dense rockwool for the acoustics. My initial gut reaction tip on what you've said so far is don't float the floor (unless you have a very clever plan to isolate it from the walls.
Rothchild
29-03-2016, 18:59
Interesting thread.
Ive been thinking about trying to do something similar.
With no prior knowledge or experience, I thought of building a breeze block room, straight off the concrete floor.
I would want it as sound proof as possible but my worries were noise escaping through the roof of this new room and through the door into it.
Any thoughts on how to overcome the noise "bleed" problem.
Sound proofing relies on mass, air tightness and isolation - truely soundproof rooms cost a lot in part because of the air conditioning you need - to be sound proof it needs to be airtight, which can make other activities (such as breathing) complicated! ;-)
The previous owner did the garage conversion here, and it works very well acoustically, despite being miniscule. Concrete floor, plasterboard ceiling, mixture of brick and breezeblock walls, and (crucially) no parallel walls ... certainly, be creative with an asymmetric floor plan if you want to avoid the square/rectangular boom-box problem.
Wow! Thanks for all the replies. I'll check out some of the links and do a little more research. There's always more to read and learn it would seem...
Thanks again
Audio Advent
29-03-2016, 22:23
Here's an interesting DIY sound-proofed room in a garage: http://www.trustmeimascientist.com/2014/03/31/how-to-build-your-own-soundproof-rehearsal-room-when-you-have-no-idea-what-youre-doing/ - interesting because they've just gone for it with no prior experience.
There was a long running blog of someone's hifi room build I followed a while back too - might have been on pinkfishmedia.net? Although that was on a grander scale and was in a work warehouse.
Make a 2D diffuser or two - I think they look great:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2c/d5/05/2cd5051d8fc1c470922f789e8d334db1.jpg
Bit of a complex problem In 2 parts.
Soundproofing the room is easily doable by using Resilient channels betwixt Studs / Rafters /joists And the Gypsum board sheets.
IF really Keen use Fireguard type Gypsum board (twice as heavy at only a moderate cost upcharge)
Fiberglass Or Rockwool Insulation in the stud/joist voids Won't hurt. But it IS the resilient channel doing most All of the hard soundproofing work.
Making the resulting surfaces amenable to listening to music As opposed to a soundcontaining (mostly :-) Echo chamber is a Surface texture / treatment exercise.
Yeah, z bar is essential for decoupling the surfaces
So after three years, I'm resurrecting this thread! The garage room is not only back on, but will be starting this weekend! :carrot: I've only really waited about thirty years for this, so I'm stoked. The problem is, the more I read the more I get confused about what I need to do. The garage is a single brick construction on a concrete pad. It's completely detached from the house. The volume levels I listen at are usually no more than 85ish dB or thereabouts, more often than not it'll be lower than that.
I'm hoping that the length of the internal room will be about 16.5' x only 9' by about 7 ' 2" high, so not brilliant dimensions. The width of the room is my main problem, but I can't do anything about that. Room absorbers, bass traps and diffusers will be used throughout (diy). As with most garages the floor rums off toward the door.
Following is my plan of action up to now, but as above, any advice would be most welcome...
So I'm aiming for the room within a room principle 2" x 4" Studs with rubber resilient strips (10mm thick x 100mm wide) on the top and bottom sections of the studs, which will all be set 10mm or so from the garage walls. Metal Resilient channels mounted directly to the roof joists and plasterboard attached to those. Breathable membrane will form the back of the studs with walls and ceiling having RW3 Rock Wool insulation and 15mm Acoustic plasterboard attached. 5mm gaps all around sealed with Acoustic sealant. There will be only one door into the place and so I'm thinking of the heaviest door I can find (maybe a fire door? I'm not sure). The floor will be 2" x 4" joists, lessening to 2" x 2" at the other to compensate for the slope. 50mm Celotex insulation and topped with 22mm chipboard.
For breathing, which was mentioned earlier and I'm sure you'll agree a necessary requirement, I'm thinking of an Axia (or some such) heat recovery unit.
Am I way off the mark here, will it be a pig and just not work, are there much better options? If so then please let me know before I start. We're surrounded by other houses and it's pretty quiet at night round here and I will listen late into the evening...
One other question I'm totally unsure about is, should I construct the floor and ceiling first then build the stud walls on top of the chipboard and fastened to the ceiling plasterboard (using the rubber strips)? Or screw the stud directly, well through the rubber resilient strips, to the concrete slab? Then attach it to the ceiling joists, again through the rubber strips? I know there is much written about this subject, but I'm reading conflicting theories as is always the case. If you can offer any thoughts then please do..
Thanks all
Sherwood
21-05-2019, 14:21
A lengthy video but well worth watching for a major project https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d9WmjTJniI&t=726s
He deals with both sound isolation and acoustic treatment
A lengthy video but well worth watching for a major project https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d9WmjTJniI&t=726s
He deals with both sound isolation and acoustic treatment
Thanks buddy, I'll take a look!
paulf-2007
21-05-2019, 17:42
My listening room is in the garden, 4" X 2" stud with ship lap on the outside and plasterboard inside, with 8" rockwool pressed into the 4" cavity. The floor is raised wood with celotex insulation between the joists. Ceiling also has 8" rockwool between the 4" cavity.There is virtually no sound outside, there are aluminium double glazed French doors. Room treatment is 4' X 2' X 2" absorption panels at first reflection points on right wall and ceiling and on the back wall, left wall is where the French doors are so have kilo serge wool curtains as used in vocal booths.
Pigmy Pony
21-05-2019, 19:35
Interesting thread.
Ive been thinking about trying to do something similar.
With no prior knowledge or experience, I thought of building a breeze block room, straight off the concrete floor.
I would want it as sound proof as possible but my worries were noise escaping through the roof of this new room and through the door into it.
Any thoughts on how to overcome the noise "bleed" problem.
A fire door will help quite a bit with the soundproofing. If the door connects the garage to the house it will probably be a building regs requirement anyway. I also think that keeping the concrete floor as opposed to having a suspended floor, would be better too. Screed the concrete, then tile or lay some form of hard flooring, and/or rugs/carpeting to fine tune the acoustics.
Pigmy Pony
21-05-2019, 20:01
So after three years, I'm resurrecting this thread! The garage room is not only back on, but will be starting this weekend! :carrot: I've only really waited about thirty years for this, so I'm stoked. The problem is, the more I read the more I get confused about what I need to do. The garage is a single brick construction on a concrete pad. It's completely detached from the house. The volume levels I listen at are usually no more than 85ish dB or thereabouts, more often than not it'll be lower than that.
I'm hoping that the length of the internal room will be about 16.5' x only 9' by about 7 ' 2" high, so not brilliant dimensions. The width of the room is my main problem, but I can't do anything about that. Room absorbers, bass traps and diffusers will be used throughout (diy). As with most garages the floor rums off toward the door.
Following is my plan of action up to now, but as above, any advice would be most welcome...
So I'm aiming for the room within a room principle 2" x 4" Studs with rubber resilient strips (10mm thick x 100mm wide) on the top and bottom sections of the studs, which will all be set 10mm or so from the garage walls. Metal Resilient channels mounted directly to the roof joists and plasterboard attached to those. Breathable membrane will form the back of the studs with walls and ceiling having RW3 Rock Wool insulation and 15mm Acoustic plasterboard attached. 5mm gaps all around sealed with Acoustic sealant. There will be only one door into the place and so I'm thinking of the heaviest door I can find (maybe a fire door? I'm not sure). The floor will be 2" x 4" joists, lessening to 2" x 2" at the other to compensate for the slope. 50mm Celotex insulation and topped with 22mm chipboard.
For breathing, which was mentioned earlier and I'm sure you'll agree a necessary requirement, I'm thinking of an Axia (or some such) heat recovery unit.
Am I way off the mark here, will it be a pig and just not work, are there much better options? If so then please let me know before I start. We're surrounded by other houses and it's pretty quiet at night round here and I will listen late into the evening...
One other question I'm totally unsure about is, should I construct the floor and ceiling first then build the stud walls on top of the chipboard and fastened to the ceiling plasterboard (using the rubber strips)? Or screw the stud directly, well through the rubber resilient strips, to the concrete slab? Then attach it to the ceiling joists, again through the rubber strips? I know there is much written about this subject, but I'm reading conflicting theories as is always the case. If you can offer any thoughts then please do..
Thanks all
The length of the room needn't be a problem - partition about 2 metres and install a little kitchen and bog. Then you need never leave! :)
. I also think that keeping the concrete floor as opposed to having a suspended floor, would be better too. Screed the concrete, then tile or lay some form of hard flooring, and/or rugs/carpeting to fine tune the acoustics.
Good advice. Especially if you are putting a turntable in there.
Good advice. Especially if you are putting a turntable in there.
+1
I have a suspended wooden floor, so have ended up decoupling everything, which I didn’t need to do in my old concrete-floored house.
So after three years, I'm resurrecting this thread! The garage room is not only back on, but will be starting this weekend! :carrot: I've only really waited about thirty years for this, so I'm stoked. The problem is, the more I read the more I get confused about what I need to do. The garage is a single brick construction on a concrete pad. It's completely detached from the house. The volume levels I listen at are usually no more than 85ish dB or thereabouts, more often than not it'll be lower than that.
I'm hoping that the length of the internal room will be about 16.5' x only 9' by about 7 ' 2" high, so not brilliant dimensions. The width of the room is my main problem, but I can't do anything about that. Room absorbers, bass traps and diffusers will be used throughout (diy). As with most garages the floor rums off toward the door.
Following is my plan of action up to now, but as above, any advice would be most welcome...
So I'm aiming for the room within a room principle 2" x 4" Studs with rubber resilient strips (10mm thick x 100mm wide) on the top and bottom sections of the studs, which will all be set 10mm or so from the garage walls. Metal Resilient channels mounted directly to the roof joists and plasterboard attached to those. Breathable membrane will form the back of the studs with walls and ceiling having RW3 Rock Wool insulation and 15mm Acoustic plasterboard attached. 5mm gaps all around sealed with Acoustic sealant. There will be only one door into the place and so I'm thinking of the heaviest door I can find (maybe a fire door? I'm not sure). The floor will be 2" x 4" joists, lessening to 2" x 2" at the other to compensate for the slope. 50mm Celotex insulation and topped with 22mm chipboard.
For breathing, which was mentioned earlier and I'm sure you'll agree a necessary requirement, I'm thinking of an Axia (or some such) heat recovery unit.
Am I way off the mark here, will it be a pig and just not work, are there much better options? If so then please let me know before I start. We're surrounded by other houses and it's pretty quiet at night round here and I will listen late into the evening...
One other question I'm totally unsure about is, should I construct the floor and ceiling first then build the stud walls on top of the chipboard and fastened to the ceiling plasterboard (using the rubber strips)? Or screw the stud directly, well through the rubber resilient strips, to the concrete slab? Then attach it to the ceiling joists, again through the rubber strips? I know there is much written about this subject, but I'm reading conflicting theories as is always the case. If you can offer any thoughts then please do..
Thanks all
Does the garage have a flat or pitched roof?
If pitched, then have the ceiling follow the pitch up to help increase ceiling height.
Floor, could you do a concrete slab on celotex rather than chipboard on timber stud?
If so, cast the slab with a small gap around all sides and build the walls off the slab with flexible ties to the brick wall.
Instead of 15mm acoustic plaster on timber stud, consider: 9mm ply onto the timber stud, all joints sealed and taped, then 9.5mm plaster board over the top with staggered edges (i.e. they dont line up with plasterboard edges) all edges sealed and taped.
Best of luck
Does the garage have a flat or pitched roof?
If pitched, then have the ceiling follow the pitch up to help increase ceiling height.
Floor, could you do a concrete slab on celotex rather than chipboard on timber stud?
If so, cast the slab with a small gap around all sides and build the walls off the slab with flexible ties to the brick wall.
Instead of 15mm acoustic plaster on timber stud, consider: 9mm ply onto the timber stud, all joints sealed and taped, then 9.5mm plaster board over the top with staggered edges (i.e. they dont line up with plasterboard edges) all edges sealed and taped.
Best of luck
Hi Simon,
The roof is flat unfortunately so have to live with that height restriction. I can't do the concrete slab either. I was going to fasten every floor joist directly to the slab so it should be very solid. Celotex between and 22mm chipboard on top. Will that not be solid enough? As for the ply, that sounds like a good idea. Is that much better than a single 15mm acoustic plasterboard? Does the 9.5mm plasterboard have to be acoustic stuff or is it just standard? Also would you put green glue between the ply and plasterboard?
Thank you all for your suggestions, really is helpful!
Hi Simon,
The roof is flat unfortunately so have to live with that height restriction. I can't do the concrete slab either. I was going to fasten every floor joist directly to the slab so it should be very solid. Celotex between and 22mm chipboard on top. Will that not be solid enough? As for the ply, that sounds like a good idea. Is that much better than a single 15mm acoustic plasterboard? Does the 9.5mm plasterboard have to be acoustic stuff or is it just standard? Also would you put green glue between the ply and plasterboard?
Thank you all for your suggestions, really is helpful!
Just watch cold bridging with the floor, but it should be pretty solid if joists are fastened to slab. Don't overfill voids, more like 75% of depth, same for wall fill, and consider Rockwool instead of celotex
Regular plasterboard over the plywood. The trick is to stagger joints, and seal and tape the 2 layers independently with non-setting mastic. Just screw through plasterboard into joists should be ok.
Plywood layer also makes fitting things to wall/ceiling easier.
best of luck
Just watch cold bridging with the floor, but it should be pretty solid if joists are fastened to slab. Don't overfill voids, more like 75% of depth, same for wall fill, and consider Rockwool instead of celotex
Regular plasterboard over the chipboard. The trick is to stagger joints, and seal and tape the 2 layers independently with non-setting mastic. Just screw through plasterboard into joists should be ok.
Chipboard layer also makes fitting things to wall/ceiling easier.
best of luck
Thanks again. I was going to fill the voids in the wall and the ceiling with RW3. Celotex or Kingspan was for the floor only. I'll certainly consider the ply over the studs, but it does add well over £100 to the price. Ply has gotten expensive!
Appreciate your input...
Mike Reed
23-05-2019, 19:53
Have you thought of the electrics? Heating? (sorry but I've just scanned the previous posts). Concrete floor over suspended any time for me. Decent underlay and carpet on top finishes it off and you achieve more height; always a bonus.. All assuming it's dry, of course. A nice rectangular 9'+ x 16'+ is good. Just okay for rear-firing ports, ESLs and anything, really, but you'd need your seating position to be a foot or two away from the rear wall, so anything less than 16' does compromise things for future speaker changes.
Kit position ? Next to seat is best, with possibly a 'wall' to shield any t/t etc. Otherwise between/behind the speakers assuming you have a remote.
Have you thought of the electrics? Heating? (sorry but I've just scanned the previous posts). Concrete floor over suspended any time for me. Decent underlay and carpet on top finishes it off and you achieve more height; always a bonus.. All assuming it's dry, of course. A nice rectangular 9'+ x 16'+ is good. Just okay for rear-firing ports, ESLs and anything, really, but you'd need your seating position to be a foot or two away from the rear wall, so anything less than 16' does compromise things for future speaker changes.
Kit position ? Next to seat is best, with possibly a 'wall' to shield any t/t etc. Otherwise between/behind the speakers assuming you have a remote.
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your post. Yes the electrics are already in the garage. Might upgrade the consumer unit as it's quite old now. I watched the video posted earlier and that was helpful with regards soundproofing. He describes sound like water. If there's a hole the sound will escape. So.. no holes! Surface mount plug sockets and no downlights. I also checked out the Cardas speaker placement calculator, so have an idea of where the Snell E/III's I have at the moment will go. Also read somewhere that a good start for the seat placement is 38% from the back wall, so I'll start there or near to it and see how it goes. I would very much prefer a solid concrete plinth, but I don't think it's a viable option. I'll have another think, maybe give a mini-mix concrete place near me a call tomorrow and see exactly the cost and if they can pump it from the street into the garage. I probably only need about 1.5m3, probably less.
As for the heating etc. I'm thinking of a heat recovery system from Vent Axia or some such. They're relatively cheap and will keep fresh air moving all year round. Heating will be a suitable electric radiator for now.. I'm hoping that with all the insulation it'll maintain a decent temp?
I appreciate the comments, it keeps me thinking and making sure I'm not missing anything.
Thanks all
DarrenHW
24-05-2019, 23:37
Does the garage have a flat or pitched roof?
If pitched, then have the ceiling follow the pitch up to help increase ceiling height.
Floor, could you do a concrete slab on celotex rather than chipboard on timber stud?
If so, cast the slab with a small gap around all sides and build the walls off the slab with flexible ties to the brick wall.
Instead of 15mm acoustic plaster on timber stud, consider: 9mm ply onto the timber stud, all joints sealed and taped, then 9.5mm plaster board over the top with staggered edges (i.e. they dont line up with plasterboard edges) all edges sealed and taped.
Best of luck
Just watch cold bridging with the floor, but it should be pretty solid if joists are fastened to slab. Don't overfill voids, more like 75% of depth, same for wall fill, and consider Rockwool instead of celotex
Regular plasterboard over the plywood. The trick is to stagger joints, and seal and tape the 2 layers independently with non-setting mastic. Just screw through plasterboard into joists should be ok.
Plywood layer also makes fitting things to wall/ceiling easier.
best of luck
I completely agree with all the advice Simon has given you. Most importantly he's highlighted the potential issues you will encounter with cold bridging, damp, mould, etc... yes, heat recovery will help, but will be fighting a losing battle!
Your existing concrete floor will most likely be in direct contact with the soil beneath it and through capillary action will subsequently be as wet as the ground around it, yes, the roof does offer some protection, but not as much as you'd think. As you've said, being a garage floor, it's graded towards the door opening and is therefore at exterior ground level at its lowest point, meaning rain water can find its way straight in. None of these things matter if the building is being used as a garage, there will be a good amount of air movement, very little in contact with floor and as it's a garage it doesn't matter if it's a bit damp ,it has a massive door opening and you're only going to store a wet car in there anyway!
Even if the external walls have a DPC, single leaf brick walls, are wet walls. By this I mean, when it rains the brick absorb the rain and are then very happy to pass it on to any absorbent material either touching it (timber), or near it (plasterboard) due to evaporation. Treatments and membranes can be used to slow this down, but... Again, not a problem for a garage as the walls are free to breathe, but cut off half it’s circulation and it will let you know about it!
Neither of these issues are insurmountable, nor are they necessarily expensive to remedy. However, fail to address them and you will inevitably build in problems and potentially affect the structural integrity of the building. Sorry to be blunt, but in my humble opinion, that is a risk you will be taking
I'm not playing Billy Big Bollocks and trying to piss on your parade, from your post's you've clearly put a lot of thought into this, you're emotionally invested and I imagine this will be a significant financial outlay for you. I've worked in construction full time since 2010 and I'm currently working with brick faced, timber frame houses, which is essentially what you'll be creating and I feel, good, simple, low cost building practice is missing from your plans, i.e. weep vents, cavity trays, building fabrics...
I'm quite happy to help you come up with a plan for the work (as I'm sure a number of other members will be), which will not only empower you with the knowledge to get the best out of this project, but also allow you to price materials and labour and get an idea of a timescale and finished product. I’m guessing you won’t have software to generate rendering, so if you pick up some A4 graph paper (readily available on eBay) a tape measure, a ruler and a pencil, draw out the floor plan and elevations (all from ground level) to scale (draw a 1000mm line on each page to indicate scale) scan them and upload them, I and any other member who so wishes, can print off a copy, overlay our plans and upload them with a description / explanation for your approval.
Any good contractor who's quoted on the work should have made you aware of these issues. If they haven't, they either don't know any better (unlikely), or they just want to get in, get out and get paid, will most likely not deliver on their promises and cut corners wherever they can. That said, the mention of heat recovery would suggest you do have someone who has an understanding of what will happen within the building, although it will not act as a heater, in fact it will constantly reduce the temperature.
As to the audiophile credentials of the building, I too would advocate the counter boarding of plasterboard over ply (the use of OSB instead could reduce costs) but with the sandwiching of a sound absorbing building fabric, this creates a quasi CLD arrangement and is effectively used in party walls of many apartments to meet sound test regulations.
Do you feel your corners need to be square? If you could live with losing the space, the corners could relatively easily be radius-ed having potential audible and visual benefits?
I’m surprised not more has been said about electrics. Hell yes, you should replace your consumer unit (a sub £100 investment) and make provision for a dedicated radial, associated sockets and earth. I suggest you start a new thread entitled “New HiFi Radial Install?” or words to that effect, you should receive a wealth of information, save yourself a small fortune (or spend a fortune, depending on your inclination) and if you’re really lucky get the details of a local spark who’s HiFi sympathetic?
Hi mate,
You have a PM:)
Great post, btw. Glen, you should take Darren's erudite advice on this matter, as a builder, as trust me, he knows what he's talking about!:cool:
Marco.
Wow Darren! Thanks for the generous info, that’s much appreciated along with your offer too. To be clear, I haven’t had a builder in at all, the only info I have is what I have read on the subject.. :eek: I do have a friend who’s in the trade and he’ll pop round to offer some advice as well.
I’m planning to build the stud away from the outer brick wall (only about 10 or 20mm) with breather membrane on the side nearest the brick. The garage door is staying in and there will be a useable 2 metres gap between the garage door and the end or the room, which will be OSB over the stud, with plasterboard on the other side, obviously. So there will be an air gap open to the garage door down the length of the side walls (about 5 metres). After thinking about a concrete pad laid over the existing one, I’ve decided to stick to joists running the width of the garage, with the same 10 or 20mm gap all around, with the stud built on top of that.
Does that sound reasonable or again am I way off the mark here? I’m no builder but myself and a very competent friend are building it all ourselves, apart from the electrician who’ll fit the new consumer unit.
Thanks again
I completely agree with all the advice Simon has given you. Most importantly he's highlighted the potential issues you will encounter with cold bridging, damp, mould, etc... yes, heat recovery will help, but will be fighting a losing battle!
Your existing concrete floor will most likely be in direct contact with the soil beneath it and through capillary action will subsequently be as wet as the ground around it, yes, the roof does offer some protection, but not as much as you'd think. As you've said, being a garage floor, it's graded towards the door opening and is therefore at exterior ground level at its lowest point, meaning rain water can find its way straight in. None of these things matter if the building is being used as a garage, there will be a good amount of air movement, very little in contact with floor and as it's a garage it doesn't matter if it's a bit damp ,it has a massive door opening and you're only going to store a wet car in there anyway!
Even if the external walls have a DPC, single leaf brick walls, are wet walls. By this I mean, when it rains the brick absorb the rain and are then very happy to pass it on to any absorbent material either touching it (timber), or near it (plasterboard) due to evaporation. Treatments and membranes can be used to slow this down, but... Again, not a problem for a garage as the walls are free to breathe, but cut off half it’s circulation and it will let you know about it!
Neither of these issues are insurmountable, nor are they necessarily expensive to remedy. However, fail to address them and you will inevitably build in problems and potentially affect the structural integrity of the building. Sorry to be blunt, but in my humble opinion, that is a risk you will be taking
I'm not playing Billy Big Bollocks and trying to piss on your parade, from your post's you've clearly put a lot of thought into this, you're emotionally invested and I imagine this will be a significant financial outlay for you. I've worked in construction full time since 2010 and I'm currently working with brick faced, timber frame houses, which is essentially what you'll be creating and I feel, good, simple, low cost building practice is missing from your plans, i.e. weep vents, cavity trays, building fabrics...
I'm quite happy to help you come up with a plan for the work (as I'm sure a number of other members will be), which will not only empower you with the knowledge to get the best out of this project, but also allow you to price materials and labour and get an idea of a timescale and finished product. I’m guessing you won’t have software to generate rendering, so if you pick up some A4 graph paper (readily available on eBay) a tape measure, a ruler and a pencil, draw out the floor plan and elevations (all from ground level) to scale (draw a 1000mm line on each page to indicate scale) scan them and upload them, I and any other member who so wishes, can print off a copy, overlay our plans and upload them with a description / explanation for your approval.
Any good contractor who's quoted on the work should have made you aware of these issues. If they haven't, they either don't know any better (unlikely), or they just want to get in, get out and get paid, will most likely not deliver on their promises and cut corners wherever they can. That said, the mention of heat recovery would suggest you do have someone who has an understanding of what will happen within the building, although it will not act as a heater, in fact it will constantly reduce the temperature.
As to the audiophile credentials of the building, I too would advocate the counter boarding of plasterboard over ply (the use of OSB instead could reduce costs) but with the sandwiching of a sound absorbing building fabric, this creates a quasi CLD arrangement and is effectively used in party walls of many apartments to meet sound test regulations.
Do you feel your corners need to be square? If you could live with losing the space, the corners could relatively easily be radius-ed having potential audible and visual benefits?
I’m surprised not more has been said about electrics. Hell yes, you should replace your consumer unit (a sub £100 investment) and make provision for a dedicated radial, associated sockets and earth. I suggest you start a new thread entitled “New HiFi Radial Install?” or words to that effect, you should receive a wealth of information, save yourself a small fortune (or spend a fortune, depending on your inclination) and if you’re really lucky get the details of a local spark who’s HiFi sympathetic?
What a cracking post and offer of help.
Round of applause required! :clapclapclap::clapclapclap::clapclapclap::clapcla pclap:
DarrenHW
27-05-2019, 19:20
Wow Darren! Thanks for the generous info, that’s much appreciated along with your offer too. To be clear, I haven’t had a builder in at all, the only info I have is what I have read on the subject.. :eek: I do have a friend who’s in the trade and he’ll pop round to offer some advice as well.
I’m planning to build the stud away from the outer brick wall (only about 10 or 20mm) with breather membrane on the side nearest the brick. The garage door is staying in and there will be a useable 2 metres gap between the garage door and the end or the room, which will be OSB over the stud, with plasterboard on the other side, obviously. So there will be an air gap open to the garage door down the length of the side walls (about 5 metres). After thinking about a concrete pad laid over the existing one, I’ve decided to stick to joists running the width of the garage, with the same 10 or 20mm gap all around, with the stud built on top of that.
Does that sound reasonable or again am I way off the mark here? I’m no builder but myself and a very competent friend are building it all ourselves, apart from the electrician who’ll fit the new consumer unit.
Thanks again
I'd be looking to incorporate a 50mm gap / cavity. The reason for this, would be to allow better air movement to help the building dry out and to avoid stagnant damp air build up. I know this will reduce the internal dimension, but in my opinion it's a sacrifice worth making. Further to this, if not already present, I'd retrofit weep vents one brick above ground level in the existing brick work. This is very cheap and simple, all you need to do is drill out the existing mortar and slide the vent in with a bit of flesh mortar to point it into place. Not only will this give the internal moisture somewhere to escape, it will aid air movement through the cavity.
Can I take it that as you're installing a breather membrane (a very good idea, I'd recommend using a reflective material) you'll be fabricating the panels and installing them as a freestanding structure within the building?
For so many reasons I'm not going to go into if you’re really not interested, I’d strongly recommend you reconsider a concrete floor. If it’s cost related, based on your original 16’ x 9’ dimensions the material cost (including 100mm insulation) would be approximately £1000. If you can operate a shovel, lift a full bucket and drive a wheelbarrow you could do it yourself comfortably in a weekend, or in a day if you don’t mind getting a sweat on! Two experience workers could easily do this in a day and would charge you ~£150 each, or you could get the insulation in and get a barrowed concrete service.
I estimate a timber floor would be a little over half the material cost so appreciate the implication, but you will overcome so many potential problem (this is why <90% houses are built this way) and have a better sounding floor that will last longer than the building it been poured in.
If you’re just not interested then I’ll leave it there and stop banging on about it, but if there’s any doubt in your mind I’m happy to provide you with more information, help you with (simple) calculations and upload some sketches of how it could be done.
I'd be looking to incorporate a 50mm gap / cavity. The reason for this, would be to allow better air movement to help the building dry out and to avoid stagnant damp air build up. I know this will reduce the internal dimension, but in my opinion it's a sacrifice worth making. Further to this, if not already present, I'd retrofit weep vents one brick above ground level in the existing brick work. This is very cheap and simple, all you need to do is drill out the existing mortar and slide the vent in with a bit of flesh mortar to point it into place. Not only will this give the internal moisture somewhere to escape, it will aid air movement through the cavity.
Can I take it that as you're installing a breather membrane (a very good idea, I'd recommend using a reflective material) you'll be fabricating the panels and installing them as a freestanding structure within the building?
For so many reasons I'm not going to go into if you’re really not interested, I’d strongly recommend you reconsider a concrete floor. If it’s cost related, based on your original 16’ x 9’ dimensions the material cost (including 100mm insulation) would be approximately £1000. If you can operate a shovel, lift a full bucket and drive a wheelbarrow you could do it yourself comfortably in a weekend, or in a day if you don’t mind getting a sweat on! Two experience workers could easily do this in a day and would charge you ~£150 each, or you could get the insulation in and get a barrowed concrete service.
I estimate a timber floor would be a little over half the material cost so appreciate the implication, but you will overcome so many potential problem (this is why <90% houses are built this way) and have a better sounding floor that will last longer than the building it been poured in.
If you’re just not interested then I’ll leave it there and stop banging on about it, but if there’s any doubt in your mind I’m happy to provide you with more information, help you with (simple) calculations and upload some sketches of how it could be done.
Mate, your information and help is very much appreciated, thank you! I'm learning so much as I go along. I'll certainly take on board the things you have suggested and try and implement as much as is possible/affordable.
Thanks again Darren :cheers:
So as an update. After taking onboard some of the great comments on here, I'm bracing up my back and planning to lay concrete on top of the existing pad so as to level it. I always wanted to do it, but thought it was way more expensive than joists and chipboard. Talking to a builder friend, who uses someone.. 2m3 or thereabouts of concrete for £250 seems like a bargain to me!
After that's laid, I can start on building the actual walls etc. I'm also now going for double plasterboard. Because of width and cost constraints, I'm using 9.5mm standard, with 12.5 Acoustic on top, for the walls and ceiling. Hopefully that'll do the trick.. enough for my needs anyway.
Cheers
I'm also now going for double plasterboard. Because of width and cost constraints, I'm using 9.5mm standard, with 12.5 Acoustic on top, for the walls and ceiling. Hopefully that'll do the trick.. enough for my needs anyway.
Does anyone have thoughts about just fixing the plasterboard together in a staggered config. without anything in between, such as Green Glue? Mostly, online reviewers rave about the stuff, but it’s staggeringly expensive! Apart from Dennis Foley here (https://youtu.be/J7Qi42E5I9c)
Any thoughts/ideas or alternatives?
For over 20 years I have always specified non-setting mastic for sealing plaster board joints, corners etc, so a long time before anybody decided to upsell it by re-labelling it as something magic ;-)
Best of luck
For over 20 years I have always specified non-setting mastic for sealing plaster board joints, corners etc, so a long time before anybody decided to upsell it by re-labelling it as something magic ;-)
Best of luck
used to use that in caravans
DarrenHW
10-06-2019, 19:24
So as an update. After taking onboard some of the great comments on here, I'm bracing up my back and planning to lay concrete on top of the existing pad so as to level it. I always wanted to do it, but thought it was way more expensive than joists and chipboard. Talking to a builder friend, who uses someone.. 2m3 or thereabouts of concrete for £250 seems like a bargain to me!
Hi Glen, I'm glad you're taking this direction :respect:. Not only should you have a better "sounding" floor you also address many of the potential issues outlined earlier.
I'm guessing from your OP and the quoted figure of ~2m3 of concrete your slab will be 150mm thick? That's exactly what I'd recommend as at ~5m (taken from your stated 16' length) your on the limits of what concrete can do without cracking.
If your not thinking about laying the concrete on Polystyrene (not very expensive and available at most builders merchants https://www.insulation4less.co.uk/eps-70-100mm ) I suggest running a perimeter of 50mm Polystyrene to the external walls. You can use this as part of the shutter for the concrete which will give you something to tamp off, ensuing your slab is as level as possible and can provide the foundation for a rudimentary cavity tray. If that doesn't make sense I can provide a basic sketch to illustrate.
After that's laid, I can start on building the actual walls etc. I'm also now going for double plasterboard. Because of width and cost constraints, I'm using 9.5mm standard, with 12.5 Acoustic on top, for the walls and ceiling. Hopefully that'll do the trick.. enough for my needs anyway.
Cheers
What you have planned is what is required to pass residential sound testing on party walls. I prefer the idea of using PLY or OSB but completely understand the cost implication. I would prefer this as using different materials will significantly reduce vibration transfer. I have no alternative to Green Glue other than the aforementioned, personally I'd be a bit more creative.
I would consider using cork / vinyl / rubber sheeting. This is pure blue sky thinking on my behalf so I have no examples to share but, I know ~3mm cork is cheap and very effective for Slate/Cork/Bamboo isolation platforms, vinyl could be picked up at low cost in the form of vinyl flooring remnants and I believe neoprene is ready available and low cost. Just some random thoughts and based on nothing other than my own imagination so take it with a pinch of salt. I do however feel that any damping achieved would have little effect within the listening room but more outside of it, so probably wouldn't invest too much time or money into the endeavour, I'd rather spend it on more insulation!
thingfish
10-06-2019, 19:29
You will need a good graphic equaliser glen.,......,
You will need a good graphic equaliser glen.,......,
Any particular reason? :)
Thanks DarrenHW as always! I have fastened level battens to both sides of the garage as it not only runs off toward the door, but also left to right as well! So we can tamp off them and even though I’ve done it, they are level.. :stalks:
One thing I’ve read is to put the acoustic plasterboard on first then the standard on top. Is that right or will it make no difference?
I’ll have a think about what to put between them, if anything at all.
Thanks again all...
So we managed to lay the concrete pad toady.. This has been something I've waited 30 years for! Awesome!
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ss144/glenann/0/309ca145-d311-4542-aac5-9366f21386ef-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/glenann/p/309ca145-d311-4542-aac5-9366f21386ef)
Looks good. Looks very good.
How exciting! Look forward to following your progress Glen.
Looks good. Looks very good.
How exciting! Look forward to following your progress Glen.
Thank you both! I'll try and keep up with the pictures...
DarrenHW
16-06-2019, 17:35
Well done Glen :yesbruv:
Was it as much graft as you expected, what's your next step?
Well done Glen :yesbruv:
Was it as much graft as you expected, what's your next step?
I've been waiting for you to say something mate! I was worried you'd think I'd made a mistake or something! :lol: Actually, I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to do it, but me and a mate barrowed it all in about 35 minutes. It wasn't really that hard at all. My 76!! year old father in law tamped it all and another mate helped him a bit. It went really well. The father in law came back the next day and smoothed it all over, got those little ridges out, so it's all nice and smooth.
The electrician comes tomorrow to cost up the new consumer unit and look at where all the sockets should go. He knows a little about air con too, so I'll ask him about whether to have a split air system or go with the heat recovery and 2Kw radiator... Then I'm planning on starting with the stud walls, with ceiling after that. Exciting stuff!
DarrenHW
17-06-2019, 19:22
Yeah, concrete's daunting, but it's really just one big effort then a few hours hanging about waiting for it to turn. IMHO a far better solution than timber regardless of sonics.
I would really look at installing weep vents before proceeding with the studs. I know I'm like a scratched record, but they're easy to install, cheap and provide an exit for any water that materialises, either through rain penetration or condensation https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brick-Weep-Vents-Wall-Vent-Cavity-House-Ventilation-Colour-Pack-Size-1143/322894127499?hash=item4b2dfd618b:m:m_iNmWmyeQOCBgo 7zWnTyZw
I take it you'll be installing a dedicated electrical circuit for the HiFi? Again, I'd highly recommend starting a new thread for input from those far more knowledgeable than me. My advice would be to install a Radial over a Ring, terminate to one point and star out from there and do whatever you legally can to avoid fuses.
For me installing a dedicated Ring was a step up, converting it to a Radial was another, but doing away with 3 Pin fused plugs was a revelation! If you look at the links below you'll see it doesn't need to be expensive and your spark will genuinely love wiring them. You will have to manufacture your own mains cables but it's not difficult, it's very cost effective and with these bad boys the world's your oyster when it comes to wire choice.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/abb-panel-socket-16a-2p-e-250v-6h-ip44/6890f
https://www.screwfix.com/p/abb-straight-plug-16a-2p-e-250v-6h-ip44/3967x
It's been a learning experience, but I'm enjoying it so far! Did this all on my own, so please bear that in mind..
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ss144/glenann/0/eac5551b-5412-4283-bdb9-136a79d23a08-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/glenann/p/eac5551b-5412-4283-bdb9-136a79d23a08)
Coming along nicely. This is going to turn out pretty good from the look of it so far.
Coming along nicely. This is going to turn out pretty good from the look of it so far.
Thank you Macca, appreciate that..
Just another question everyone. It was mentioned earlier to use 9mm ply on the studs as a base layer instead of plasterboard. Then a layer of plasterboard on top. Firstly, would it be ok to use 9mm OSB instead as a base layer, then put plasterboard on top of that? If so would it need to be acoustic 12.5mm plasterboard or would standard 9.5mm do as the second/top layer? Also would a standard non-setting mastic need to be applied between the two layers, or could I get away with just putting them together, given their differing resonating properties? I would seal all joints of the OSB and finish all the gaps with Acoustic Sealant.
Appreciate any comments
Cheers
Also, I forgot to say, I would lap all joints as suggested too.
The first fix electrics went in yesterday. I also ordered the Heat Recovery unit. Next week, as I'm away this weekend, I'm going to order the rest of the needed materials, so any input with the above questions would be most welcome...
Thanks again all.
So after a weekend of food poisoning, I managed to take delivery of the insulation and remaining plasterboards. So did a little, whilst running on empty! What a nightmare!
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ss144/glenann/0/0fcfd332-22b7-46e4-badf-c13ed2f1d548-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/glenann/p/0fcfd332-22b7-46e4-badf-c13ed2f1d548)
RobbieGong
03-07-2019, 20:20
Coming along nicely Glen, but dont rush in after food poisoning, you'll be a bit wiped out so rest up a few days at least fella :)
Coming along nicely Glen, but dont rush in after food poisoning, you'll be a bit wiped out so rest up a few days at least fella :)
Thanks Rob, appreciate that. I've been in bed from Friday to Monday and only took it really easy today.. with a good sleep in between! :) It did properly wipe me out though. That's it now until the weekend, but every little helps.
So just a little update. Progress is being made, albeit slower than I would like!
This is the OSb layer attached and sealed..
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ss144/glenann/0/9b7a91a7-ab78-413e-8f19-d17c4e913842-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/glenann/p/9b7a91a7-ab78-413e-8f19-d17c4e913842)
Then a layer of Acoustic plasterboard..
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ss144/glenann/0/c9f8cc4a-3140-479d-8690-b302f2791755-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/glenann/p/c9f8cc4a-3140-479d-8690-b302f2791755)
And for now the resilient channels and insulation all done. Finishing the ceiling on Wednesday, with a double layer of Plasterboard. Just need a plasterer and hopefully it'll nearly be done!
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ss144/glenann/0/d65e064c-0c24-4b67-9dd2-0f96acc7f7f7-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/glenann/p/d65e064c-0c24-4b67-9dd2-0f96acc7f7f7)
What will the internal dimensions be when you've finished?
What will the internal dimensions be when you've finished?
Hi Martin, it's a bit smaller width wise than I wanted, but I can't do anything about that. So it'll end up being 8'10" wide by 16'2" long. The ceiling slopes from the back to the front from 6'10" to 7'2". Although it's not what you'd call cavernous, it's mine and I can do what I want with it! It's also pretty solid, in fact my mates are calling it 'The Bunker.'
That's still a decent space. You can get six foot between the speakers and still have them clear of the sides.
I did the same with half my double garage about 9 years ago. It is a single skin construction so I had the lovely job of Synthaprufing the whole of the interior walls of what would be the room, then battened out and acoustic fibreglass batts fitted, then 100mm of Celotex and then acoustic grade plasterboard. It is roughly the same size as your's and works very well. There is a bit of a bass hump, but that is smoothed out with 2 subs set to different phase (they both have adjustable phase 0 - 180) I sure you will enjoy the result. The great thing is it is about 40ft from the house, I could go deaf or die in there and no-one would know:eek:. Sound leakage is virtually non existent when you are outside. Sadly the pics I had of the construction went with my old Photophuckit account when they bolloxed it up.
Another step closer today.. I got plastered! :rolleyes:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ss144/glenann/0/1cbe4e0d-623f-4233-b96b-696dc0afa1df-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/glenann/p/1cbe4e0d-623f-4233-b96b-696dc0afa1df)
Why are the photo's blurry? Is it a Photobucket thing?
Why are the photo's blurry? Is it a Photobucket thing?
Think it's getting plastered that makes the image blurry! Looks good anyway Glen, coming together now. :)
Must be. Pb are useless. Most now want money. It's expensive hosting pics of course.
Tapatalk is way to go. Mobile phone take pic, post on tapatalk no middle man
Think it's getting plastered that makes the image blurry! Looks good anyway Glen, coming together now. :)
:lol: Good one!
Must be. Pb are useless. Most now want money. It's expensive hosting pics of course.
Tapatalk is way to go. Mobile phone take pic, post on tapatalk no middle man
Thanks for that, I'll check it out..
I might have sussed it.. Google Photo's. No, it didn’t work!
Getting close to where the real action starts now...
Getting close to where the real action starts now...
That's true! Just been going through the next steps. Paint, skirting board, finish fitting the heat recovery unit, electrician, carpet... move in, never leave! In celebration, I bought a new (well old) Thorens TD 125 in a beautiful Macassar Ebony plinth. It used to be Petrat's I believe. Can't wait to pick that up.
Just wondering, mods could you change the thread title to 'Garage Conversion' please?
Much appreciated, thank you.
https://i.imgur.com/ISG9lmI.jpg
This is the new turntable! Just looking for an arm to go with it. Any thoughts? Needs to be as far below a £1000 as is possible!
Bigman80
23-07-2019, 08:42
https://i.imgur.com/ISG9lmI.jpg
This is the new turntable! Just looking for an arm to go with it. Any thoughts? Needs to be as far below a £1000 as is possible!You're gonna get a boat load of recommendations with that Q
You're gonna get a boat load of recommendations with that Q
That is true! :lol: I did just email Jeff from Audiomods. The new series 6 looks nice. I originally thought about the Origin Live Onyx, which is quite a bit cheaper. On my previous 125 I had a Jelco 750E, which was great, but the prices seem to have gone through the roof!
Bigman80
23-07-2019, 17:34
That is true! [emoji38] I did just email Jeff from Audiomods. The new series 6 looks nice. I originally thought about the Origin Live Onyx, which is quite a bit cheaper. On my previous 125 I had a Jelco 750E, which was great, but the prices seem to have gone through the roof!It's a nice looking arm but the lack of adjustment options puts me off.
It's a nice looking arm but the lack of adjustment options puts me off.
Which arm do you mean mate? The OL or the Audiomods?
Bigman80
24-07-2019, 11:54
Which arm do you mean mate? The OL or the Audiomods?Both lol
Quick update.. Name the song?
https://i.imgur.com/CRVwNFkh.jpg
stairpost
25-07-2019, 21:01
Quick update.. Name the song?
https://i.imgur.com/CRVwNFkh.jpg
Wired for sound? :)
Wired for sound? :)
That's one I'd not thought of! :)
AJSki2fly
25-07-2019, 21:34
Quick update.. Name the song?
https://i.imgur.com/CRVwNFkh.jpg
Mirrorball
Mirrorball
Not the song I was whistling as I was painting...
Sherwood
25-07-2019, 21:49
Wonderwall
Wonderwall
It's all in the colour...
Bigman80
25-07-2019, 22:01
Whiter shade of pale?
White Room (with black curtains)
Room without windows
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11lI48B0LAs
walpurgis
25-07-2019, 22:43
Try lining the walls with corrugated 'eggbox' acoustic foam. Then you'll have an anechoic chamber and padded cell all in one! :)
White Room (with black curtains)
Tis the one I couldn't stop whistling! Drove myself mad with it :eek:
Tis the one I couldn't stop whistling! Drove myself mad with it :eek:
But you've got to get the black curtains and the tired starling (which oddly enough is my surname & I am a little weary)
rigger67
26-07-2019, 02:34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czjap6UrcJg
Hard wired smoke alarm?
Sorry if you've already mentioned but I only read the first few posts
Hard wired smoke alarm?
Sorry if you've already mentioned but I only read the first few posts
Oh... er... no. Seemed to have neglected that :eek:
Bit more progress today. The heat recovery unit is now more or less complete, just waiting until a August 5th for the electrician to wire it up!
https://i.imgur.com/f1ombe3h.jpg
Not the neatest job, but I've never done it before... hope it works!
This is the view inside, with the supply and exhaust cowls.
https://i.imgur.com/qKvDpBdh.jpg
Oh and started the skirting boards too.
Bigman80
28-07-2019, 03:20
Getting there.
Carpet was fitted this morning... stereo in, still echoes like a beggar, but....
its worked, it’s worked, it’s WORKED!! Played some music at loud levels and it can barely be heard from 5 feet away! I am so pleased. Thank you to all who gave me feedback on here. Don’t know if you can tell but I’m pretty thrilled. I’ll get some pics on when I get a second.
Thank you all so much.
brian2957
10-08-2019, 21:54
well done Glen , you're enjoying the fruits of your hard work .
Looks fantastic BTW :)
Look forward to the pictures.
Just a couple of pictures of the present state of the room. Still a work in progress, but we're getting there...
https://i.imgur.com/hMqryTG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jJbF4pV.jpg
Sherwood
13-08-2019, 16:20
Glen,
nice job. Not so sure about the DIY bass traps though. If you are interested, I have an unopened pack of Rockwell acoustic insulation you can have. It contains 4 1200mmx600mm blocks, ideal for 4 sizable acoustic panels. I bought two packs but found I only needed one pack for my listening room.
Not sure where you are in South Yorks but you are probably not too far from me. PM me if you are interested.
Geoff
AJSki2fly
13-08-2019, 16:25
Very nice Glenn, I wondered how you were getting along, how are you finding it acoustically?
Fabulous job. Life goals right there! :)
Pigmy Pony
13-08-2019, 19:24
Glen,
nice job. Not so sure about the DIY bass traps though. If you are interested, I have an unopened pack of Rockwell acoustic insulation you can have. It contains 4 1200mmx600mm blocks, ideal for 4 sizable acoustic panels. I bought two packs but found I only needed one pack for my listening room.
Not sure where you are in South Yorks but you are probably not too far from me. PM me if you are interested.
Geoff
I saw some identical bass traps in Carpetright's remnants corner :D
But I really like your funky white equipment rack (the one between your speakers, not the Kallax). Exactly what I could do with, where did you get it if you don't mind my asking?
Really nice listening space btw. Done a good job there :)
Indeed a lovely little bolthole for tunes. Very atmospheric
Glen,
nice job. Not so sure about the DIY bass traps though. If you are interested, I have an unopened pack of Rockwell acoustic insulation you can have.
First off, thank you all for your nice comments, it’s much appreciated! For the above quote, thank you Geoff, that’s a really nice gesture. I am in the process of making some bass traps as I have two packs of insulation left over. I was just waiting for the burlap material to arrive, which it did yesterday. Nevertheless, I appreciate the offer.
Very nice Glenn, I wondered how you were getting along, how are you finding it acoustically?
It’s ok actually. Better than I thought it would be. It needs work though. There is still pretty bad flutter echo and I need to spend time placing the speakers correctly. I plonked them using the Cardas calculator and haven’t bothered to move then since. Bass needs a little more body for me, but I’ll wait until I’ve built the bass traps. Then I can build the first reflection point absorbers. I’ll probably add a skyline diffuser at the back to complete the treatment if I can be bothered! :lol:
But I really like your funky white equipment rack (the one between your speakers, not the Kallax). Exactly what I could do with, where did you get it if you don't mind my asking?
Really nice listening space btw. Done a good job there :)
The rack is the one I’ve nicked from under the wife’s telly! It’s from Ikea as well, can be found here (https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/besta-tv-bench-white-s69061227/) It’s called BESTÅ. There’s an additional glass top you can buy for it I believe. Here it is.. (https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/besta-top-panel-glass-white-30196538/)
You've done a great job, enjoy the fruits of your labours.
AJSki2fly
14-08-2019, 07:24
It’s ok actually. Better than I thought it would be. It needs work though. There is still pretty bad flutter echo and I need to spend time placing the speakers correctly. I plonked them using the Cardas calculator and haven’t bothered to move then since. Bass needs a little more body for me, but I’ll wait until I’ve built the bass traps. Then I can build the first reflection point absorbers. I’ll probably add a skyline diffuser at the back to complete the treatment if I can be bothered! :lol:
You might want to consider hanging a triangular sail up in ceiling, an often overlooked large reflective flat expanse, I threatened this in our lounge and even though I gave a list of aesthetic and artistic reasons SWMBO firmly put her foot down and waggled her finger and head at me. :rolleyes::doh: I think I was pushing my luck a bit.:eyebrows:
walpurgis
14-08-2019, 07:25
Looks a very nice 'den'. Like the rack.
The thought did cross my mind, will any future owner spend ages converting it back into a garage? ;)
Sherwood
14-08-2019, 09:03
As Glen already has some acoustic insulation my offer is now open to other members. Namely, an unopened pack of Rockwell acoustic insulation. The pack contains 4 blocks, each 100mm thick and measuring 1200mm x 600mm. The 100mm version is the sweet spot for acoustic panels, and 1200mm x 600 mm a good sized acoustic panel.
Free to anyone who can collect from Warsop in North Notts (on the edge of Sherwood Forest).
So after a busy afternoon.. proper bass traps! :lol:
https://i.imgur.com/QA2e5k2.jpg
Sherwood
14-08-2019, 16:03
So after a busy afternoon.. proper bass traps! :lol:
https://i.imgur.com/QA2e5k2.jpg
Out of curiosity, what materials did you use to make the bass traps and has it made much difference to the acoustics?
Out of curiosity, what materials did you use to make the bass traps and has it made much difference to the acoustics?
I actually used three pieces of arris rail, I think they call it, as it's cut in a triangle shape. With a board top and bottom. Then some RWA45 insulation I had spare. Wrapped in burlap/Hessian.
It's certainly tamed any tendency to boom. The bass seems fully controlled. With some test tracks I don't feel the need to turn it down at all, which is a good thing I suppose.
AJSki2fly
18-08-2019, 06:02
Very nice job Glen, looks very professional. :)
At the insistence (yeah right!) Of my daughter, I 'had' to buy a TV for the room. A nice 65" Panasonic OLED fit the bill nicely. I have to say the picture quality from 4k and Standard Blu-Ray is astonishing.
https://i.imgur.com/KwxYX8U.jpg
Very nice job Glen, looks very professional. :)
That's really kind, thanks buddy. To say I've never done anything like this ever, I'm pretty chuffed tbh.
AJSki2fly
24-08-2019, 17:27
That's really kind, thanks buddy. To say I've never done anything like this ever, I'm pretty chuffed tbh.
Well I think you can feel quite smug, a big pat on the back, well done. You can come to the seaside and do mine if you like [emoji23]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Spectral Morn
26-08-2019, 09:21
Nice room :cool:
brian2957
26-08-2019, 10:05
Aye , great listening space . Well done Glen :)
Thanks all, appreciate the comments. Am so pleased with it, I can’t begin to tell you! Just sat now with the door open onto the garden, with some Miles Davis on really quiet and a poured bottle of I.P.A... bliss! :cool:
Vinyl turner
06-09-2019, 00:21
Darn !
I just came across your posts & read the first three & jumped to the last few (it being too late to read all 13 pages).
Your room looks a treat & you should be proud of it.
Something earlier on caught my eye, which you may have addressed - which is the acoustic'ness (if that is a word) of your door.
If you have a good solution then please ignore this.
If I were in your position I may be tempted to try something I remember from years ago as a child, which was the local doctors surgery - that was very small. So that patients could be assured some privacy the good doctor had a double door arrangement that always impressed me and I wonder if a similar could be fabricated today with better materials.
When I say double - that wasn't in the fashion of a pair of garage doors, it was one frame set with two individual doors hinged so as to open in opposite directions. The door to the waiting room looked like a normal room door and the inner one (to his consulting room) was a lot thicker.
When that one closed you could hear that sucking sound of it pulling tight into seals.
I seem to think it had a thick panel of that 1950/60s acoustic / open veined panelling on one face. Probably of the asbestos type in those days ! (a bit ironic for a doctor).
A decent threshold with a rubber seal should add to the isolation.
Just a thought and something I would experiment with if creating a room such as yours.
Darn !
I just came across your posts & read the first three & jumped to the last few (it being too late to read all 13 pages).
Your room looks a treat & you should be proud of it.
Something earlier on caught my eye, which you may have addressed - which is the acoustic'ness (if that is a word) of your door.
If you have a good solution then please ignore this.
If I were in your position I may be tempted to try something I remember from years ago as a child, which was the local doctors surgery - that was very small. So that patients could be assured some privacy the good doctor had a double door arrangement that always impressed me and I wonder if a similar could be fabricated today with better materials.
When I say double - that wasn't in the fashion of a pair of garage doors, it was one frame set with two individual doors hinged so as to open in opposite directions. The door to the waiting room looked like a normal room door and the inner one (to his consulting room) was a lot thicker.
When that one closed you could hear that sucking sound of it pulling tight into seals.
I seem to think it had a thick panel of that 1950/60s acoustic / open veined panelling on one face. Probably of the asbestos type in those days ! (a bit ironic for a doctor).
A decent threshold with a rubber seal should add to the isolation.
Just a thought and something I would experiment with if creating a room such as yours.
Hi Mark and thanks for your post! Unfortunately I couldn’t fit ‘double doors’ as there is a narrow walled walkway that wouldn’t allow for a door to open outwards. I went for a heavy fire door with very good weather seals all way around. The joiner allowed just enough space for them when he fitted the door. It shuts with a reassuring ‘thunk.’ There is some sound leakage from the door, but stand 10 feet away and it’s a non issue, regardless of volume.
I’m very pleased with it and it has become my hideaway.. sometimes I just sit in there for the peace and quiet, especially first thing in the morning! All in all, for me and my family, it’s a triumph.
If you didn’t know, we live with my disabled, elderly parents. They have a regular sized 3 bed semi. So me, my wife and two teenage daughters live upstairs in the 3 bedrooms. As you can imagine, life is not always ideal, so the garage has become a real hiding place... thanks again to all who helped along the way on here too!
Hi all,
Been away awhile listening and thought I’d post a quick update. The room has been used almost daily since finishing it. I always intended to treat the room but having spent so much time in the building process I lost a little impetus. Anyway, on Saturday I made a couple of quick sound absorbers using some spare insulation bats I had left... what a revelation. The sound has improved beyond anything I could have imagined! I made the bass traps early on, but the two absorbers have, without exaggeration, transformed the sound utterly. Any tendency towards harshness has gone. The sound is now so solid, detailed and has added weight and punch. I am gobsmacked, totally and utterly. I’m now going to build some form of diffuser for the rear of the room. Also a little treatment on the ceiling as there is a significant echo when clapping. I don’t want to overdo it though.
If you have the ability to add some absorbers, then I can only say it’s a must!
https://i.imgur.com/O05gCce.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oTYNUta.jpg
paulf-2007
21-01-2020, 09:37
Another believer, most people are box swappers and won't entertain room treatment in fear of it stopping their box swapping ways.
Any reason why you put the panel so far up the wall.
AJSki2fly
21-01-2020, 11:35
Hi all,
Been away awhile listening and thought I’d post a quick update. The room has been used almost daily since finishing it. I always intended to treat the room but having spent so much time in the building process I lost a little impetus. Anyway, on Saturday I made a couple of quick sound absorbers using some spare insulation bats I had left... what a revelation. The sound has improved beyond anything I could have imagined! I made the bass traps early on, but the two absorbers have, without exaggeration, transformed the sound utterly. Any tendency towards harshness has gone. The sound is now so solid, detailed and has added weight and punch. I am gobsmacked, totally and utterly. I’m now going to build some form of diffuser for the rear of the room. Also a little treatment on the ceiling as there is a significant echo when clapping. I don’t want to overdo it though.
If you have the ability to add some absorbers, then I can only say it’s a must!
https://i.imgur.com/O05gCce.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oTYNUta.jpg
Hi Glen, good to hear from you again and that you are enjoying and improving your listening room, the panels look very good.
It is very interesting the difference some simple panels/absorbtion material on walls and in corners can make. I have experimented in our lounge (my hifi room) hanging up some blankets against side walls and placing some on corners over old standard lamps in back corners behind me. I measured with REW and listened and there was a marked improvement in definition/clarity. I broached the panel subject with SWMBO (Sue Who Must Be Obeyed), saying I would make my own nice looking ones to blend in, the answer was an emphatic NO!:doh:
If you put ceiling panels up I read somewhere that it is best to have them about 2-3 feet in front of the speakers and for them to be suspended about 2-3 inches off the ceiling. So you should only need a couple in your room I think.
Will be interesting to hear how you find it if you do put ceiling ones up.
Any reason why you put the panel so far up the wall.
Er, no.. I wasn’t sure where to hang them really. The room is quite small anyway and I was trying not to put them too close to the floor. I can only drop them about 8” due to power sockets. Would you recommend that? If so what difference would it make do you think?
Hi Glen, good to hear from you again and that you are enjoying and improving your listening room, the panels look very good.
It is very interesting the difference some simple panels/absorbtion material on walls and in corners can make. I have experimented in our lounge (my hifi room) hanging up some blankets against side walls and placing some on corners over old standard lamps in back corners behind me. I measured with REW and listened and there was a marked improvement in definition/clarity. I broached the panel subject with SWMBO (Sue Who Must Be Obeyed), saying I would make my own nice looking ones to blend in, the answer was an emphatic NO!:doh:
If you put ceiling panels up I read somewhere that it is best to have them about 2-3 feet in front of the speakers and for them to be suspended about 2-3 inches off the ceiling. So you should only need a couple in your room I think.
Will be interesting to hear how you find it if you do put ceiling ones up.
Thanks Adrian, appreciate the comments. I’ll keep your thoughts in mind regarding the ceiling absorption too, thank you :)
RobbieGong
21-01-2020, 22:09
Nice one Adrian and well done again.
With regard to the panels and the resulting sound / presentation that's thrilling you, you may well have found your sweet-spot or pretty close, so as you say, be careful not to overdo it :)
Nice one Adrian and well done again.
With regard to the panels and the resulting sound / presentation that's thrilling you, you may well have found your sweet-spot or pretty close, so as you say, be careful not to overdo it :)
Thank you, I am very conscious of not overdoing it. The sound is pretty spectacular considering the modesty of the system. I'm blown away to say the least!
Paulf-2007 mentioned earlier why I placed the panels so high up the wall.. I don’t have an answer to that. Could anyone offer any suggestions as to the best height for the panels please, given the size of the room (9ftx16ft)? They can be easily moved.
Thanks in advance
hifinutt
26-01-2020, 20:34
brilliant , i am hoping to put some GIK acoustics ceiling panels up as soon as i can to help with acoustics
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