Turntable shelf - any point?

[Mikeandvan]

Hi, was just about to take the plunge earlier and buy an Apollo record shelf for my Heybrook TT2, they sell at £125, when I thought why not just buy a bog standard shelf big and sturdy enough for a TT and use that instead, I've a feeling there'll be absolutely no difference in sound! And will likely cost no more than £25, let alone £125! Any ideas on a good shelf 'type' to use? And does one really need spikes?:rolleyes:

[Audio Al]

If you have a TT shelf bolted to a wall you have maximum isolation , No vibration / separation

You won't get that with a floor standing shelf

[struth]

as long as its a solid wall.

[Macca]

If you have a solid floor then I'd say save the money.

If not a wall shelf is almost mandatory - I'd pay the extra for a proper one if it were me. I think it will affect the sound.

[CornishPasty]

I bought two lengths of slotted metal frame and four brackets from B&Q. These are bolted to a solid wall and support two shelves. The lower one carries 20 kilos of turntable and phono stage. Cost me about 30 quid.

[337alant]

For me if you have a suspended wooden floor a solid wall then an a wall shelf is a no brainier and there is quite a benefit in sound quality, bass slam, more neutral mid range and less miss tracking distortion in the treble, the difference is more noticeable with suspended turntables such as the Linn LP12 mine was very susceptible to footfall
Personally I wouldn't do it any other way but you also have to put the wall shelf in the right place in the room which is not in the middle of the speakers and not in a corner of the room, half way along a side wall seemed best to me

Alan

[Mikeandvan]

If you have a TT shelf bolted to a wall you have maximum isolation , No vibration / separation

You won't get that with a floor standing shelf

Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant do I spend £125 on a 'turntable shelf', or just buy a 'normal' shelf (but still wall mounted). I wouldn't use any shelf that stood on the floor as I know what a pain they are, you just walk across the floor and the needle jumps, but the point I'm making is do I buy an 'audio' shelf - at an inflated price, or just a normal 'wall mounted' shelf - as long as its on the wall, there can't be that much difference surely?

[Marco]

Hi Mike,

Yes, if the "audio" wall shelf in question has been specifically designed to offer benefits of increased isolation. Also, which "normal" wall-mounted shelf are you referring to? I can't think of anything on the market that's of the appropriate size and rigidity to house a turntable properly.

Also, you need adjustable spikes if you're to properly level the turntable - and to do that, you need to be able to make small incremental adjustments.

Marco.

[CageyH]

A well mounted, nice thick shelf will probably do. If your turntable has adjustable feet, you can get away without spikes. If it does not have adjustable feet, get a plinth with adjustable spikes, or make one.

As I wanted to mount my shelf on a vertical beam, the HiFi racks Podium was perfect for me.

[jollyfix]

Build or adapt a shop bought shelf Mike, depending on your skills with tools etc. I have never liked the look of the metal ones, and as for the wooden shelves personally i would make one myself, so much cheaper.

[karma67]

Personally I wouldn't do it any other way but you also have to put the wall shelf in the right place in the room which is not in the middle of the speakers and not in a corner of the room, half way along a side wall seemed best to me

Alan

could you expand on why please

[Macca]

could you expand on why please

Room nodes are worse in those places so you'll get - or may get - feedback through the stylus. You want to site the deck somewhere where standing waves are at a minimum.

[337alant]

Room nodes are worse in those places so you'll get - or may get - feedback through the stylus. You want to site the deck somewhere where standing waves are at a minimum.

Yes that's it Macca , its finding the ideal position in the room to get the best out of the wall shelf.
That said sometimes you don't have a choice where you can fit it and at least the wall shelf will still give good isolation.
Like Marco said where can you find the ideal sized wall shelf that will suit a turntable, you have to custom build or buy a purpose designed turntable shelf really.'
IMO the shelf should be on inverted spikes for the ideal isolation, you can also experiment with shelf material I ended up with 20mm thick perspex, Ply or MDF are good as well but I dont like glass.
I bought a Custom Design support and its good but DIY from Metal or wood is also pretty easy if you have the skills

Alan

[mikmas]

I bought two lengths of slotted metal frame and four brackets from B&Q. These are bolted to a solid wall and support two shelves. The lower one carries 20 kilos of turntable and phono stage. Cost me about 30 quid.

Ditto - and I used 1 inch thick Birch ply cut to size for shelving, works fine. That said, my deck has a suspended chassis with very effective oil damping so footfall has never been a problem ;)

Did consider one of these for a while though:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?37258-Isolation-Plinths
(Oscars Audio in the Trade section)

[Mikeandvan]

Thanks for replies, think I'll try and make my own one, if I can be bothered, if not just buy one for £125, when you factor in time/labour its not that bad, but there's the satisfaction with making your own! Bit limited with siting, as my room consists of a kitchen at one end and full length windows/door onto juliet balcony at the other, so hi fi must go along one wall. Is it really that bad to have record players/amps etc inbetween the speakers?

[struth]

Thanks for replies, think I'll try and make my own one, if I can be bothered, if not just buy one for £125, when you factor in time/labour its not that bad, but there's the satisfaction with making your own! Bit limited with siting, as my room consists of a kitchen at one end and full length windows/door onto juliet balcony at the other, so hi fi must go along one wall. Is it really that bad to have record players/amps etc inbetween the speakers?

lots of folk say it is... I say it aint... never had any problems in 50 years

[walpurgis]

lots of folk say it is... I say it aint... never had any problems in 50 years

Nor me.

[walpurgis]

I made a highly effective turntable wall shelf using a pair of these large and very rigid Wickes steel shelf brackets: http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Heavy-Duty-Bracket-White-495x330mm/p/530744

I mounted a 35mm piece of MDF on top, isolated with rubber bushes. It's been doing a grand job for years now.

[struth]

I remember buying a microwave shelve off ebay years ago.. it was a catering one and shelf was stainless.. had huge big box brackets... think its lying around my shed still unused.lol I got an apollo or similar next day and used it. cost more than I like to remember ... guess the brackets would handle 2 people easy :lol:

[Audio Advent]

When you can get a hifi wall shelf secondhand from £4 to £45 on ebay (ok, the £3.11 example was pick-up only) then you may think twice about bothering... unless nothing comes up after a while of searching of course..

Here are a couple recent results from the search "Target wall shelf" :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TARGET-HI-FI-WALL-SHELF-/222055796169

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Target-TT1-Wallshelf-/131699929394

..although many seem to go for about £70, £40 or less isn't particularly unusual. And then of course, with the right bracket to hold it close and strongly against the wall, a standard steel framed shelf can be wall mounted .

[Macca]

Thanks for replies, think I'll try and make my own one, if I can be bothered, if not just buy one for £125, when you factor in time/labour its not that bad, but there's the satisfaction with making your own! Bit limited with siting, as my room consists of a kitchen at one end and full length windows/door onto juliet balcony at the other, so hi fi must go along one wall. Is it really that bad to have record players/amps etc inbetween the speakers?

It does have an adverse effect on 'soundstaging' - whether that matters much is a personal decision. Ideally you want the speakers set up with nothing around them or in between them. I take it you can't have the speakers in front of the windows and the kit off to one side?

[YNWaN]

lots of folk say it is... I say it aint... never had any problems in 50 years

In my experience it does have a negative effect on sound stage. There are two main reasons why you see systems set up between speakers, 1/ at shows it means people are looking at the gear when they are listening and, 2/ it means you only need short lengths of that stupidly expensive speaker cable everyone tells you is needed :).

[walpurgis]

There are two main reasons why you see systems set up between speakers

In my case. There's no other place to site the turntable (between and slightly behind the big Tannoys). Can't say I've had any issues.

[YNWaN]

What issue would you expect? Unless you have tried it with the equipment sited elsewhere you can't rally compare (perhaps you have).

[walpurgis]

What issue would you expect? Unless you have tried it with the equipment sited elsewhere you can't rally compare (perhaps you have).

The obvious. Feedback. It never occurs. I did try other positions prior to using a wall mounted shelf and the system sounds just as good with the TT in its current and most logical location.

[Macca]

personally I wasn't talking about the turntable specifically but having a whacking great pile of kit in between the speakers - and not back from the plane of the speakers but level with the drivers.

There was a system set up like this at the last Cranage hall show, the one using the large JBLs, they had a rack between the speakers, placed so that it jutted out a little from the plane of the drivers. This is a really good way to ruin the soundstage.

The same rack, still placed between the speakers but a foot or two further back and it would not be a problem

[Mikeandvan]

Many thanks again for these relies, great help.

[YNWaN]

The obvious. Feedback. It never occurs. I did try other positions prior to using a wall mounted shelf and the system sounds just as good with the TT in its current and most logical location.

Ah, I see. I wouldn't expect any feedback with it positioned between the speakers, not obvious feedback at any rate (even less so on a wall shelf).

[struth]

Suppose if youve got a dedicated listening room its easier but in a living room you have to decide on many things... I have a wall which is all stereo and a small tv. Logic is that gear is in between. I have tried other configs in past but never noticed much if any difference. Again different speakers etc may behave differently.

[YNWaN]

It's a pretty minor issue in the greater scheme of things :).