View Full Version : A little help needed with regards Step Up Transformers
Wakefield Turntables
26-03-2016, 19:39
I considered the Hashimoto HM7 route but cannot be bothered with the expense and wait. I'd something more bespoke and have decided to try and get something special brewed up from companies in the UK. I'd like a pair of custom made Silver transformers for a new SUT to go with either a new Silver Meister II SPU or a Audionote IO1. So who in the UK makes the best wound transformers? Would a company like Stevens/Billington be the best in the uk for this job?
I'd speak to Nick (lurcher) about this, as he's got quite a bit of experience in this area :)
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
26-03-2016, 19:54
The Io has a very low output and 1ohm coil impedance, so it has very specific and challenging requirements in terms of SUT compatibility. I'd be looking at Audio Note's own SUTs, but they are not cheap. Good SUTs are not cheap and there's no easy way round that fact.
Wakefield Turntables
26-03-2016, 20:02
The Io has a very low output and 1ohm coil impedance, so it has very specific and challenging requirements in terms of SUT compatibility. I'd be looking at Audio Note's own SUTs, but they are not cheap. Good SUTs are not cheap and there's no easy way round that fact.
Yep I agree but wouldn't it be fun to try and produce something ourselves?
Wakefield Turntables
26-03-2016, 20:03
I'd speak to Nick (lurcher) about this, as he's got quite a bit of experience in this area :)
Marco.
Yep it's on my "to-do" list, I'll be discussing this with him next week if I remember to call him.
Ammonite Audio
26-03-2016, 20:07
Yep I agree but wouldn't it be fun to try and produce something ourselves?
Of course, but it will still be expensive, and getting things hum-free will be an epic challenge.
Yep I agree but wouldn't it be fun to try and produce something ourselves?
...and without the 'audiophile desirability' premium attracted to the AN badge! Think SPPV ;)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
26-03-2016, 20:12
Of course, but it will still be expensive, and getting things hum-free will be an epic challenge.
Not if you know the right people.
...and without the 'audiophile desirability' premium attracted to the AN badge! Think SPPV ;)
Marco.
Yep I'm doing a little lateral thinking, this could be quite cool cos I'd probably have just the one SUT between both system, the ST80SE would then be sold and the cost wouldn't be quite so bad.
CornishPasty
26-03-2016, 20:14
Sowter? They do a range of transformers and there's some good info on their site. Not a kings ransom either. I'm not sure if Nick Gorham doesn't use Sowter trannies.
Yep I'm doing a little lateral thinking, this could be quite cool cos I'd probably have just the one SUT between both system, the ST80SE would then be sold and the cost wouldn't be quite so bad.
Yes, but also remember that SUTs are *very* cartridge and phono stage dependent, and as such should be used as pairings (along with a partnering cartridge), rather than as individual entities. At the end of the day, it's all about creating sonic (and electrical) synergy.
In that respect, I doubt you'll ever be able to have a 'one size fits all' SUT.
Marco.
CornishPasty
26-03-2016, 20:54
Yes, but also remember that SUTs are *very* cartridge and phono stage dependent, and as such should be used as pairings (along with a partnering cartridge), rather than as individual entities. At the end of the day, it's all about creating sonic (and electrical) synergy.
In that respect, I doubt you'll ever be able to have a 'one size fits all' SUT.
Marco.
Very much so. Getting the pairing right is not always easy.
In my previous post I didn't mean to imply that Nick used Sowter transformers in his phono stages, merely that I thought he used Sowter transformers in some of his designs.
In my previous post I didn't mean to imply that Nick used Sowter transformers in his phono stages, merely that I thought he used Sowter transformers in some of his designs.
Both have been true in the past, and probably will in the future. Sowter step ups are great value for money, but I can only echo what Marco said, the pairing between a transformer and a cartridge seems to be more important that the absolute performance of the transformer.
Doesn't answer your question, Andrew, but following on from what Marco and Nick said about matching ... the Hashimoto HM-3 transformers are the ones to have if you want both SPU and Io capability. They're cheaper than the HM7, and I can't hear any difference tbh. With around 10K Ohm loading on the secondary, the two switchable windings give: 40x and 5.5 Ohm load for the Io; and 20x and 22 Ohms for the SPU ... which is, luckily, just about perfect matching for both, ime.
Other options I would consider include talking to Dave Slagle in NYC, who does fantastic stuff (incl. silver windings) at a 'reasonable' price, or the slightly cheaper option of a second-hand AN S2L.
Get Dave Slagle to make a pair in copper for your IO, they sound fantastic. He can also wind them in silver, the reports are great but the price is higher, your call.
Arkless Electronics
01-04-2016, 12:23
Or for the ultimate there is always a really good head amp.
My up market model was chosen in preference to Hashimoto HM7 by the AOS member that bought it after side by side comparison with HM7.
alcarmichael
02-04-2016, 16:05
Pieter at Tribute Audio apparently makes some of the best transformers on the market. I was very close to ordering a set until I received Jez's outstanding head amp. If you ask him nicely he might build you one. :cheers:
Pieter at Tribute Audio apparently makes some of the best transformers on the market. I was very close to ordering a set until I received Jez's outstanding head amp. If you ask him nicely he might build you one. :cheers:
I agree, I am lucky in having a pair he designed for the 103. However I don't think you will be able to get him to make any more now. He was planning on retiring, had signalled that he was doing no more for the DIY market, and the web page seems to have gone now.
Wakefield Turntables
02-04-2016, 16:44
The SUT is going to be part of a bigger overhaul of my entire valve system. So, I'm going to wait until the pre and power amp are sorted and then the 301 will be getting some more work.
alcarmichael
02-04-2016, 18:50
I agree, I am lucky in having a pair he designed for the 103. However I don't think you will be able to get him to make any more now. He was planning on retiring, had signalled that he was doing no more for the DIY market, and the web page seems to have gone now.
It was only a few weeks ago. I actually emailed him requesting recommendations as his site said he was no longer producing, he replied saying he was still going and needed to update his site to show that. Saying that the whole web site currently appears to be down so maybe he did pack it in.
It was only a few weeks ago. I actually emailed him requesting recommendations as his site said he was no longer producing, he replied saying he was still going and needed to update his site to show that. Saying that the whole web site currently appears to be down so maybe he did pack it in.
Hopefully its just a passing glitch thats stopping me seeing his site then.
alcarmichael
03-04-2016, 11:04
The SUT is going to be part of a bigger overhaul of my entire valve system. So, I'm going to wait until the pre and power amp are sorted and then the 301 will be getting some more work.
Are you not intrigued by the use of a head amp? I was all set to go the Hashimoto or Tribute SUT route until I was amazed by Jez's head amp. It really is impressive.
Wakefield Turntables
03-04-2016, 14:56
Are you not intrigued by the use of a head amp? I was all set to go the Hashimoto or Tribute SUT route until I was amazed by Jez's head amp. It really is impressive.
I've tried more head amps that I've eaten hot dinners (well maybe not that many). I have pretty well sorted NickG Lentek headamp just sitting on my window sill collecting dust. I think that just about says it all!
IslandPink
03-04-2016, 21:56
It's a shame Pieter is giving up, because his small signal transformers and step-ups were among the best in the world. The 'standard' 1:10 step-ups with cobalt-amorphous toroidal cores were the best I've heard for midrange tone and low-level detail . Currently I'm using some slightly bigger amorphous-core prototypes he did just before he retired, that have more inductance ( ~ 2.5H ) to give better low bass and timing with high-Zout cartridges like the 103 and 103R .
Having said that a head amp or anything SS or hybrid ( I had a go at a jFet/triode cascode input to my phono amp ) that has no low-end turnover due to the inductance will likely give tighter low bass and a bit more 'zip' to the rhythm than any step-up. Trouble is how to get the upper-mids and treble to sound natural. I was unable to achieve this in the cascode hybrid mod on the phono, in the end.
I haven't had a chance to hear any of the Hashimotos - what sort of construction details do they use ? - many things can matter for these small signals : cores, thickness of the laminations, wire, interlayer materials ....
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