Thorens TD 125 & SME 3009 + SME 2000 Plinth

[dantheman91]

Hello Guys


Well this huge beast came my way this morning :D:eek::eek::eek::D:D:D Playing sweet as a nut and sounding superb it has a V15 type 3 cartridge :eyebrows:...Think ive done my back in turntable number 8 :lol:
This one is a keeper without a doubt

More pictures after ive had a session :cool: - Needs setting up correctly the arm doesn't run to the run out groove...but otherwise both channel equal speed is good but will need a new belt as its been in someones loft for a good 10 years i was told...

Bit of a surprise i bought a pair of speakers from this guy i asked if he had any turntables he said one but its at a friends so 3 months of waiting and shes here....needs a little tinkering but otherwise fine....

Anyone in the Bournemouth area know how to set up these SME arms?

[struth]

Looks good Dan.. Nice arm the 3009. You should find articles re setting up online. Maybe vinyl engine? Been after another one myself lol.
Dont know the tt but they say they are good.great find

[Stratmangler]

Nice TT - I have one too, although it's not been used since my Techie landed.
The plinth is the SME2000, and dampening the plinth is beneficial to the sound, as it dampening the top plate of the TT with cork and caulk.
Removing the underneath of the plinth helps too

If the arm isn't getting to the runout it may be that the internal cabling is too tightly twisted to permit that much travel.
It needs strip down and investigation, whatever the cause.

Nice catch :)

PS - just noticed the bit in the thread title about the SME2000 plinth - it doesn't show up from the forum main page :doh:

[dantheman91]

If the arm isn't getting to the runout it may be that the internal cabling is too tightly twisted to permit that much travel.
It needs strip down and investigation, whatever the cause.

Nice catch :)

Hi Chris

I dont think its the wiring ive inspected and it seems the anti skate bar "I Think" on the side of the arm is catching on the arm lift and needs to be raised its far too low at present in accordance to set up this will hopefully be the fault ...im no expert in this so i will have to get someone in the know how to have a look the bearings seem fine...will be well worth getting her going sounded superb on test run earlier...:)

Its one of those things....give your one a run re live the old magic....:)

[dantheman91]

Looks good Dan.. Nice arm the 3009. You should find articles re setting up online. Maybe vinyl engine? Been after another one myself lol.
Dont know the tt but they say they are good.great find

True classic.......Top spec in its day.....

[struth]

Think there was a thread earlier re this same problem. Cant remember exactly the problem now.. Might have been arm lift fitted wrongly.... Ask Barry(aka the fount master)

[dantheman91]

Think there was a thread earlier re this same problem. Cant remember exactly the problem now.. Might have been arm lift fitted wrongly.... Ask Barry

Cheers Dude....

[walpurgis]

The SME 2000 plinth gets a slating from some, but there are things that can be done to improve it. Sensible extra bracing inside and under the top board. Getting rid of the 'boingy' suspension springs, filling the holes in and sitting the board on thick Sorbothane pads. Having the lid removable helps too.

[struth]

Considered replacing the springs with sorbothane on my 160 Geoff... I believe Thorens had an option on some of their sprung decks for this when you bought them. Might be an interesting thing to try.

[walpurgis]

The VPI HW19 turntable has the top board suspended this way. I had one and it works.

[killie99]

Is it an optical illusion or is that a 12" arm? If it's a 12" arm it's not fitted at the correct distance.
Honestly, ditch the SME 2000 plinth, for around £100 you'll make a huge improvement to the sound. I managed to bag a bespoke plinth on ebay for about £40.

[dantheman91]

Hi Stuart

I will keep it in original spec...It a "9 SME not a "12....might be the picture misleading....

Cheers

[dantheman91]

Updated photos of my current problem with the wider weight catching on the arm lift....hopefully i just need to alter the counter weight but not alter the VTF in the process and hope the rubber is not perished which is a strong possibility...as its been in a loft for sometime...:rolleyes:

[struth]

The main weight needs rotating so the rider weight is parallel with the arm. that may cure it; certain to help Dan.

[dantheman91]

The main weight needs rotating so the rider weight is parallel with the arm. that may cure it; certain to help Dan.

Hi Grant

Im going to have a go a altering the counter weight to vertical as stated is it a small Allen key screw for the bolt?

[struth]

yeah, a small hex or allen. should be like this.... the flat bit is flat at top

https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.M8b952462916e67bcc100524d85a6e6eeo0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300

The lift arm ass may need moved a little toward the arm too depending

[Barry]

yeah, a small hex or allen. should be like this.... the flat bit is flat at top

https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.M8b952462916e67bcc100524d85a6e6eeo0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300

The lift arm ass may need moved a little toward the arm too depending

Hi Dan,

The playing weight/transverse balance weighrod has drooped, suggesting the rubber decoupling bush has perished. Try slackening the socket-headed grub screw (needs an Allen key to do this) and rotate the weighrod assembly counterclockwise so it is parallel with the bedplate, as shown in Grant's photo.

To do the job properly, I would recommend you send the entire arm off to Audio Origami for a service and replacement of the decoupling bush. (Sadly SME no longer service the 3000 series arms.) It shouldn't be too expensive.

You shouldn't have need to move the arm lift assembly.

Barry

[dantheman91]

Hi Dan,

The playing weight/transverse balance weighrod has drooped, suggesting the rubber decoupling bush has perished. Try slackening the socket-headed grub screw (needs an Allen key to do this) and rotate the weighrod assembly counterclockwise so it is parallel with the bedplate, as shown in Grant's photo.

To do the job properly, I would recommend you send the entire arm off to Audio Origami for a service and replacement of the decoupling bush. (Sadly SME no longer service the 3000 series arms.) It shouldn't be too expensive.

You shouldn't have need to move the arm lift assembly.

Barry

Hi Barry , Guys

I now have the weighrod parallel to the bed plate i think its perished as their is still movement in the stub but only slightly The question is can the arm be used OK as it is for the time being this appears to be a very common problem i'm guessing not but worth asking someone in the know how? I see theirs a pair of coupling on eBay @ £24 i shall order these in the next week and get ask the local HI-FI guys i know and use for repairs to see if they can fit it but it seems its not as easy as it looks :doh: what is a bargain is soon to be turned into a headache i see but all in the name of fun...:mental:

Thanks
Daniel

Many Thanks Guys
Daniel

[dantheman91]

Anyone......:eyebrows:?

[petrat]

Both turntable, arm and cartridge are highly rated ... the plinth less so. Yes, it is certainly worth a bit of work, both in terms of sound quality, and resale value ... cartridge, arm and turntable were top of their manufacturer's catalogues, and have not diminished in capability (or weight!) over the years.

IME a new belt and a bit of oil in the main bearing often make a huge difference . Make sure everything is dead level ... first the plinth/box edges, then the turntable platter, which is adjusted from underneath (the 3 big white knurled knobs). Look at pictures of the SME 3009 online and check it's set up more or less as others do. It should still work with a drooping weight until you get it fixed. There are quite a few threads on the 125 on AoS ... including a restoration with pictures iirc ... which I can't find :doh:

[Stratmangler]

Anyone......:eyebrows:?

I'm guessing this turntable is not well rated round here....:mental:

As I read it, your question relates to your SME3009, not your turntable.
The motor unit and arm were not a paired item - Thorens used to supply the same motor unit in a plinth and with a Thorens arm.
Your motor unit will have been ordered as just that, a motor unit, and the plinth would likely as not been purchased as a seperate item, as would the tonearm.

I do not have the same version of the arm that you have, so I have little to suggest.

[struth]

Would be inclined to get oo to service it too... These in tip top nick still make serious money so worth spendind a bit. The 125 is a decent deck. I would follow Geoffs advice re strengthening the top and putting sorbothane pads in.

[dantheman91]

Hi Guys

Many Thanks i'm gonna have to look into getting it serviced ETC..The thorens seems to run fine of both 33 & 45 and runs stable on the strobe..but a new belt would be in order im going to get it sent of for a full service and check over...

[killie99]

The motor unit and the arm are indeed excellent.
There are several things to check on the motor unit. If you are turning the white suspension adjusters and you feel any resistance then STOP!!!!! These will have gone slightly brittle over the years and the threads may well now be full of crud. Any extra force will cause the threads to get damaged. If you can easily get the white cups out give them a good wash with soapy water and use a toothbrush to clean the thread. Before refitting them smear a tiny amount of vaseline on the threads and they will rotate very easily. Just make sure you don't cross thread them when you're refitting them. If you can't get them easily out you'll need to try and smear a bit of vaseline onto the threads in situ and gently work them back and forth until they loosen up and are able to be removed for cleaning.

Is yours a MK1 or a Mk2? I've never had a Mk1 so I'm unsure about the electronics in it.
If it's a Mk2 you feel up to the task, have a look at the electronic speed control. If it's never been removed then you will need to remove it and as a minimum replace the 2 electrolytic caps, and while you've got it in bits you might as well replace all the pots, they are dirt cheap to buy. Perform the speed calibration procedure to (it's available on vinylengine) make sure the pots are set correctly, remove all the old oil out of the well, give the well and spindle a good clean and refill with new oil.
I did a write up on Wigwam a couple of years ago on my TD125, you can read it here (http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?106342-TD125-Restoration) . I think some of the pics are messed up (1 pic shows my TD125 pretty much as it is now in it's new plinth instead of the old one) but the text will give you the gist of what I did. With a bit of care and attention these are superb decks. Good luck!

[hifi_dave]

Excellent advice..:thumbsup:

[dantheman91]

The motor unit and the arm are indeed excellent.
There are several things to check on the motor unit. If you are turning the white suspension adjusters and you feel any resistance then STOP!!!!! These will have gone slightly brittle over the years and the threads may well now be full of crud. Any extra force will cause the threads to get damaged. If you can easily get the white cups out give them a good wash with soapy water and use a toothbrush to clean the thread. Before refitting them smear a tiny amount of vaseline on the threads and they will rotate very easily. Just make sure you don't cross thread them when you're refitting them. If you can't get them easily out you'll need to try and smear a bit of vaseline onto the threads in situ and gently work them back and forth until they loosen up and are able to be removed for cleaning.

Is yours a MK1 or a Mk2? I've never had a Mk1 so I'm unsure about the electronics in it.
If it's a Mk2 you feel up to the task, have a look at the electronic speed control. If it's never been removed then you will need to remove it and as a minimum replace the 2 electrolytic caps, and while you've got it in bits you might as well replace all the pots, they are dirt cheap to buy. Perform the speed calibration procedure to (it's available on vinylengine) make sure the pots are set correctly, remove all the old oil out of the well, give the well and spindle a good clean and refill with new oil.
I did a write up on Wigwam a couple of years ago on my TD125, you can read it here (http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?106342-TD125-Restoration) . I think some of the pics are messed up (1 pic shows my TD125 pretty much as it is now in it's new plinth instead of the old one) but the text will give you the gist of what I did. With a bit of care and attention these are superb decks. Good luck!

Hi Stuart

Im not sure if its a MK1 or 2 surley it would say next to the 125? The advice given is excellent but is way out of my area of expertise :mental:. I will get round to getting it fully serviced but i think its going to be a long term restoration which is fine one thing is that this is a holy grail for me but others might not think so i just love the look but sounded excellent on test run till i hit the problems on post 1*...

Many Thanks for the great advice im always open to try new things with turntables its all a learning curve in the end so will come in handy for the future

PS your 125 looks superb.....

Cheers
Daniel

[killie99]

If it doesn't say it's a Mk2 on the plate next to TD125 then it's a Mk1. The speed controller is totally different on Mk1 and Mk2 but the basic idea is the same - ie a load of pots to adjust voltages. There is loads of info on VinlyEngine.

[dantheman91]

If it doesn't say it's a Mk2 on the plate next to TD125 then it's a Mk1. The speed controller is totally different on Mk1 and Mk2 but the basic idea is the same - ie a load of pots to adjust voltages. There is loads of info on VinlyEngine.

Hi

Im guessing its a MK1 to so even rarer then the MK2 then? Im looking forward to what can be achieved when the deck is currently set up I would guess i would get to know the problems with the plinth but i just love the look granted the whole unit is 1972 and its in the HI-FI year book and advertised as a whole unit...:D. Comes done to what you like in the end yes its gonna have its problems but i jumped at the chance to own a classic piece of HI-FI though this is turntable number 6 :mental:

Cheers

[DSJR]

The 125 mk1 had a removable main bearing housing and with far tighter tolerances than the sloppier mk2 model. I disagree with Beobloke about the sonic standard of this mk1 deck, finding it very good indeed and well up to say, a Jelco 750 arm or similar. The 124/125 broken-rib mat is good I think, the flatter mk2 mat isn't. I placed a NAS Space mat (£20) on the rubber one and there was just enough spindle left for the record to locate on. The Spacemat is ever so slightly darker sounding than my usual cork preference, but this seems to suit the deck best I thought.

My TD125 had a rebuilt Rega R200 arm and the stock plinth and the sound was perhaps less 'sexy' than more coloured alternatives, but I thought it more 'accurate' especially in the bass, which was as tuneful as the pressing would allow. The suspension may need work, or possibly the more accurately made Linn LP12 springs (I believe the combined weight of platters and top plate are similar to the LP12 platters and sub chassis) would be better - one of my 125 springs was deliberately? bent to allow some sort of eccentricity for centring the top plate, but as a result a piston-like bounce was all but impossible, even for me (once able to sort out the worst LP12's in the direst dark days of the early 80's).

As to the rest, a new belt every couple of years or so is essential too, as the stock one is a bit too 'stretchy' for its own good. There's no reason actually, why an LP12 belt shouldn't work in all honesty, as long as it doesn't foul the belt guide (you cannot do this with a TD150/160 and siblings I think because of the motor pulley and guide width)

Setting up an SME is easy and manuals can be got for not too much on ebay I think.

Check wire dressing, which will be different with the SME plinth.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DSCF1418.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/DSCF1418.jpg.html)

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/TD125withR200withDecca.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/TD125withR200withDecca.jpg.html)

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DSCF1423.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/DSCF1423.jpg.html)

[dantheman91]

The SME is being sent away for the coupling bushes this week on wednesday i am also sending the Thorens in for a service as its due its probably never had one. Cant wait for its return and its not even gone yet.....:mental: thats what love is...:)

[killie99]

depending on the condition of the ones fitted on your TT you may want to snap these up (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ORIGINAL-COMPLETE-SET-SME2000-THORENS-TD125-MOTOR-BOARD-MOUNTING-BRACKETS-BOXED-/272216947662?hash=item3f6164fbce:g:ZT0AAOSwxp9W6ab 5)

[dantheman91]

Shes Home - Full service & New De Coupler Bushes

Just about to set her up for a test run........:eek:

Been waiting for this.......

[dantheman91]

Really Sounding Superb excellent sweet treble but with the delicate but tight bass the overall one that will be in the collection for a VERY long time....

The V15 Type II :eek: Great cartridge no wonder they get rave reviews....the 3009 is also gorgeous to look at im going to put it on periud amplifier later on Quad 3 series....:cool:

[petrat]

Excellent! It's really quite good, isn't it? TBH, for the music I play, I could quite happily live with a 125-3009-V15 set-up and would probably never want for anything else.

When I got back into hifi in the mid 90s, the mags were slagging off the 3009 ... nice mid, but no treble, bass, detail, whatever. When I got one, I realised that they were writing complete rollocks. Actually, most of my big mistakes in buying kit have come from believing what was written in the mags. Thanks goodness for forums like this ...

[dantheman91]

Excellent! It's really quite good, isn't it? TBH, for the music I play, I could quite happily live with a 125-3009-V15 set-up and would probably never want for anything else.

When I got back into hifi in the mid 90s, the mags were slagging off the 3009 ... nice mid, but no treble, bass, detail, whatever. When I got one, I realised that they were writing complete rollocks. Actually, most of my big mistakes in buying kit have come from believing what was written in the mags. Thanks goodness for forums like this ...

Hi Peter

I've just set it up to the main system and sounding very good on the Audio Notes , Musical Fidelity combo i think i will try a less powered amplifier like a Quantum thats low power but clean sounding and see how we do.....Bearing in mind mine was not made for lifting at 7 in the morning after i just got up....its a itch i needed to scratch. Currently its a competition between the Rega , Ariston X 2 , Thorens interesting so far.....:eyebrows:

[dantheman91]

The dreaded stop intermittently whilst playing has begun :scratch::steam::steam::steam::steam: it stopped last night but switched off and thought it would pass as the power tripped the other day from a new toaster....put the thorens on for a couple of hours to run it this morning woke up and wasn't spinning so indicating theirs something is wrong. Any thoughts ive ordered a new belt but suspicion leads to its something more which could be fatal....:steam:

Theirs always something when you're skint....:rolleyes:

[petrat]

Take the platter and belt off, and if the motor/pulley is spinning, then it's just a slipping belt. Given what you wrote, maybe leave it running without the belt/platter for a few hours to be certain?

[dantheman91]

Take the platter and belt off, and if the motor/pulley is spinning, then it's just a slipping belt. Given what you wrote, maybe leave it running without the belt/platter for a few hours to be certain?

Hi Peter

Sounds good ive taken the platter off and belt the the motor , pulley is running. Once its stopped with the platter on i can hear the motor running its just not spinning. I'll leave it running for a few hours just to be sure.

Thank You
Daniel

[dantheman91]

Update

Run the motor / pulley from 9.30 to 1.00 today and runs fine no stopping....so gonna run it for another couple hours to to make sure...and then try it with the belt on again and see if it does it again....

[Stratmangler]

Have you tried moving the speed selector back and forth, and also doing similar with the pitch control?
It wouldn't hurt to spray contact cleaner in there.

Mine stopped on a couple of occasions, and the switch back and forth thing sorted it out.

[dantheman91]

Have you tried moving the speed selector back and forth, and also doing similar with the pitch control?
It wouldn't hurt to spray contact cleaner in there.

Mine stopped on a couple of occasions, and the switch back and forth thing sorted it out.

Hi Chris,

Im not sure about doing anything technical on this what with the electrical boards im just ruling out the basics for now and hopefully all is well....but if any work does need to be done i'll send it off again well worth spending the money if thats the case..i'll take your advice as a back up if need it...:)