Help me choose some new speakers. Sugden A48-based second system

[Alex_darling]

Hey y'all,

Thought this place seems like the best place to ask these sorts of questions. Here's the situation:

I have a main mixing system based around some active ATCs, which I absolutely love. Spectacular but I spend quite a lot of my time working on this setup. When I want a break I go to my second setup.

Currently this is made up from a pair of Goodmans Havant SLs, a Sudden A48mk2, a Rega RP-1 and assorted digital sources (haven't settled on anything yet). It's not unknown for this system to be turned up to a pretty healthy level, so the efficiency of the Goodmans helps with the relatively low output Sugden.

I had considered some B&W DM7s for something a lot more relaxed across the mids than the Goodmans, but 1) I worry about rumble issues with these as I used to have a pair and remember them bottoming out regularly and 2) they're not the most efficient speakers, and I want to keep the Sugden at the heart of this setup for various reasons.

So... suggestions would be great! The Goodmans just HAVE to go. So many issues with these speakers...

Oh also budget is fairly tight. I don't have tonnes of expendable cash...

[Alex_darling]

Any suggestions guys?

[Arkless Electronics]

I think that rather than specific suggestions I would say you need something of decent efficiency and relatively easy load if you like it loud.... IME these amps can sound rather rough and shouty when really cranked up so although super efficient speakers such as used with low power valve amps aren't really necessary I would go for something that can give all the volume you need without using more than say 20W.

[Alex_darling]

Okay, I'll put it out there that I'm not the biggest Tannoy fan (which seem to be popular with the Valve crowd because of their efficiency I guess). I find they're far too coloured for my tastes.

Also I'm not looking to spend too much money, do you think this is possible?

[Alex_darling]

And thanks for the help by the way!

[Martyn Miles]

Hey y'all,

Thought this place seems like the best place to ask these sorts of questions. Here's the situation:

I have a main mixing system based around some active ATCs, which I absolutely love. Spectacular but I spend quite a lot of my time working on this setup. When I want a break I go to my second setup.

Currently this is made up from a pair of Goodmans Havant SLs, a Sudden A48mk2, a Rega RP-1 and assorted digital sources (haven't settled on anything yet). It's not unknown for this system to be turned up to a pretty healthy level, so the efficiency of the Goodmans helps with the relatively low output Sugden.

I had considered some B&W DM7s for something a lot more relaxed across the mids than the Goodmans, but 1) I worry about rumble issues with these as I used to have a pair and remember them bottoming out regularly and 2) they're not the most efficient speakers, and I want to keep the Sugden at the heart of this setup for various reasons.

So... suggestions would be great! The Goodmans just HAVE to go. So many issues with these speakers...

Oh also budget is fairly tight. I don't have tonnes of expendable cash...

Try a pair of the original Wharfedale Diamonds.
Remarkably good...

[Spectral Morn]

No.

First arrange demo's of speakers you like the idea of, or reviews of, fit your budget and are a sensible size for your room. Go listen, create a short list then arrange home demos of the short list then buy.

Speakers are one area you must, repeat must try in your own room, and system unless you have money to throw about and enjoy crap shoots in the dark.

There will be folks who will disagree and offer all sorts of pet recommendations but that's their taste, their system, their room.

You are in London, lots of good dealers - do it the old fashioned way and save yourself wasted money and grief. My view, based on years in the retail industry seeing folks not do this, and end up wasted money and time in hands back doing it the old fashioned way.

[struth]

what he said..... Being in London you have the best chance of auditioning stuff. tis the best way

[walpurgis]

Okay, I'll put it out there that I'm not the biggest Tannoy fan (which seem to be popular with the Valve crowd because of their efficiency I guess). I find they're far too coloured for my tastes.

Come and listen to mine. I reckon you'd soon change your mind and walk away gobsmacked at the sound quality. :D

[Scooby]

Id say try some Snell Js.

[tannoy man]

Mission 770 MK11 works well with the Sugden:) if its the nextel finished one im thinking about.

[Søren]

Give the recent JBL Studio series a listen. They are surprisingly good. They are efficient, and can go loud, without getting strident or harsh.

[jandl100]

Give the recent JBL Studio series a listen. They are surprisingly good. They are efficient, and can go loud, without getting strident or harsh.

Yup. I was thinking JBL.

Vintage ones - might need refoaming. Can often be had for a few-£100.
Remarkably good allrounders, imo.

Efficient, neutral, dynamic.

I had a pair of L110 Monitors - fab things. :)
(I dislike Tannoys, too ;))

[walpurgis]

What about these Tannoy Stratfords, just offered on here today:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?44606-FS-Tannoy-Stratford-Speakers

They sound surprisingly decent. Vibrant and musical.

[Søren]

Yup. I was thinking JBL.

Vintage ones - might need refoaming. Can often be had for a few-£100.
Remarkably good allrounders, imo.

Efficient, neutral, dynamic.

I had a pair of L110 Monitors - fab things. :)
(I dislike Tannoys, too ;))

JBL are quite often overlooked by the hifi community. Until recently, by me too. But i have to admit they still know a thing or two, about making great speakers.

[walpurgis]

JBL are quite often overlooked by the hifi community.

Not sure about that. Vintage JBLs certainly have quite a following. I think many older models are very desirable.

[Søren]

Not sure about that. Vintage JBLs certainly have quite a following. I think many older models are very desirable.

Absolutely, but i think that you either love them, or you don`t consider them "real hifi".

[danilo]

Hmm Clearly you haven't heard a decently tweaked/setup Pair of Tannoys.
No worries.. most haven't either :eyebrows:

Try these Audio Nirvana drivers.
The 8 inchers in Alnico.. are the Best Performers in the range.
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/nirvana.html
~95 db eff and Very Nice sounding drivers actually.

Full rangers can be Magical on a decent Class A amp..IF... it's up to the task.
Your Sugden may or may not be.. dunno. Only one way to be sure
Need to build your own boxes OR Pay more.
Never a free lunch.
PS: Harmon years JBLs are imo not even worth auditioning .. sadly

[Alex_darling]

Thanks for all this guys, really appreciated. You're opening me up to the idea of other speakers I'd never really thought of. I've heard the Stratfords, and I'm not the biggest fan to be honest! I get the 'involvement' thing but I'd also want something a bit smoother. My ATCs have shown me that linen-smooth and fun/musical can go hand in hand.

I'd be interested in trying out the JBL Studios. I've used JBL 4311s in the studio, and while there are much better speakers available nowadays, they're great and I'd be happy with a pair.

BUT, I ended up coming across some KEF Calindas which have been in the family since new and were sitting unused. Now, they're not exactly what I'd describe as fast or transparent, but I've fitted new tweeters and worked on the crossovers a little to match the sensitivity/curve with the B200 and they're now sounding really quite good. Best of all, they've cost me £zero. :)

I get the feeling the Sugden could do with a recap as it's still sounding a hair too laid back for me, and although it's not exactly powerful enough to drive the KEFs up to a decent level (they're pretty inefficient), it's working well for now and completely fatigue-free at normal listening levels.

Next up is an improved DAC (just using whatever/minijack/airport for digital audio at the moment) and something better to mount the turntable on as the Calindas have a system resonance of 19 Hz which is scarily close to the tonearm resonance of the Rega :doh:

[walpurgis]

The 19 Hz system resonance you quote for the KEF Calindas has to be incorrect. The speakers are rolling off by the time the bass gets down to around 45Hz. I appreciate ABR systems can behave oddly, but I reckon the resonance will be higher than you think.

[Alex_darling]

That's according to the original Calinda specifications. I agree it seems incredibly low and they definitely roll off much higher than that, but the cone and ABR wobble on when someone walks past the turntable (currently on a really flimsy table) is pretty alarming.

I remember having a similar problem with I had some DM7s...

[walpurgis]

found this: http://kef.com/html/en/explore/about_kef/museum/1970s/Corelli_Calinda_Cantata/index.html

The system resonance is quoted at 28Hz. Even that seems rather low and there's no mention of output amplitude at that point. I'm assuming it is pretty low, as they state bass output is at the -3db point by 40Hz. The 28Hz may just be the point at which the ABR goes out of phase with the main driver.