Floss your Prog Gloriosity here

[The Deacon]

This music discussion section of the forums is nigh DEAD so we have to inject some life into it.
And what is more live-giving-potent than progressive rock?


Who are the prog mens here?
(We want pictures of your collection.)

What you sturdy mens listen to of late?

[rigger67]

I don't know if I'm a full prog fan, but I have always loved Yes.

I've tinkered with Tull, jousted with Genesis, courted King Crimson and entertained Emerson, Lake and even Palmer, but none have come close to Chris Squire, Steve Howe and Jon Anderson.
The rest are optional, though obviously Rick's presence makes anything that bit more special ...

I just don't really "feel it" with any other prog bands to the same level as I seem to get everything Yes did.

When I say Yes, I'm not talking about the Buggles years or even the Trevor Rabin stuff - none of that felt like the band I grew up with.
Weirdly enough, the excellent tribute band, Fragile, do a slowed-down, more proggy version of Owner Of A Lonely Heart and I actually prefer it to the original effects-laden turd that Trevor Horn shat out whilst seated on a golden thrown in the depths of some knob-infested studio.
Knobs on the mixers, obviously ..

When I say prog, I'm not talking Floyd, Zep or Rush. Nor Marillion, The Moody Blues or Dream Theater.

The Yes Album is my favourite, though I also love Close To The Edge, Yes, Time and a Word, Fragile, Relayer, Topographic Oceans and Going For The One. Another surprisingly good record is Magnification, though I can take or leave a lot of their stuff from Drama onwards.

Early Genesis is good though.
I like Peter Gabriel.
He'd be fun to have a pint with, though it would probably be some twig-ridden craft ale from Mozambique or something ..

[surv1v0r]

I find music genre classification to be nigh on impossible.

Are Yes, Jethro Tull, Genesis, King Crimson, ELP, Pink Floyd, Rush, Marillion, The Moody Blues the same genre? I would say not.

Perhaps you could list what exactly you mean by "Prog Gloriosity" ;)

[rigger67]

Are Yes, Jethro Tull, Genesis, King Crimson, ELP, Pink Floyd, Rush, Marillion, The Moody Blues the same genre?

No, they're not.
Yes, they are.
It depends how you look at it :scratch:


I worked in music retail for over ten years and believe me, some artists are simple, others very difficult to pigeon-hole .. as well they should be, given the complexity of art in general and music, specifically.

I don't actually feel the need for a lot of the classifications, certainly not from a retailing/customer point of view, anyway.


I went into Rise in Bristol the other day and was bemused by the genres there. Same in HMV. "Urban" is not a thing, but then the crossovers between soul, funk, hiphop, RnB and dance have long been blurred ..


I think Tower had it right :

- Classical (with a separate, closed-off room and its own sound system)
- Rock and Pop
- Soul
- Specialist : Jazz, Blues, Country, World, Folk, OSTs, Reggae

Anything else is just semantics.


For the record, all the artists you listed would be in the Rock and Pop section.


My favourite artist, Lewis Taylor, used to play lead for the Edgar Broughton band but is a white soul singer, and his albums are what I call "Prog Soul", even though he's in a class on his own (in more ways than one).
But I put him in the Soul section, while Prince was in Rock and Pop, but is another one who straddles more than one genre.

Lewis Taylor's very career - and ultimate demise as an artist - was defined by pigeon-holing.
Universal, his label at the time, didn't like the second album he recorded following his critically-acclaimed eponymous debut.
They thought it was a decent enough record but like the first one they couldn't put it in a box, meaning they didn't really know how to market it.
Should they advertise in soul magazines, or play on the classic rock angle he personally had, or go for a mainstream audience ??
(Robbie Williams had a worldwide number one with one of his songs - Lovelight - a few years later so that may well have worked)

In the end, he wrote and recorded an entirely new album - Lewis II - and put that out instead.
You can still buy the other one as it was later released as The Lost Album :mental:


I think there's an analogy with football here.
I love utility players and being a Leeds fan Paul Madeley is perhaps the best example, but they do still exist despite becoming rarer in the last few years.
Clubs usually have one man who's played in a variety of roles and with varying degrees of success, but they don't always like it.
I think it's human nature - and an effect of natural prejudices - that we label and judge everything and everyone to better understand it.
James Milner can't play in the middle.
Javier Mascherano is too small to be a centre-back.
Gareth Bale's just a left-back.
Ronaldo's a winger.
Rooney can't play in midfield.
Actually, that last one's true, but you get what I mean ?
Similarly, musicians and singers MUST be labelled.
I really love Lyle Lovett, Michelle Shocked and kd lang, but can I find them in a record shop ? Can I f..
They're country, but they're also jazz, singer-songwriter balladeers, swing, folk, acoustic pop .. they're unclassifiable and I love that about them.
I'd much rather listen to artists like that than another Coldplay album that sounds just like the last one did.

Snobbery, I know, but most of us are one way or the other.


So in answer to your original question, yes they are the same category but it's not Progressive Rock because that section doesn't exist in my virtual shop :lol:

[rigger67]

On a different tack, but returning to Prog Gloriosity, my mate Darran lives in a little village just outside Lewes, near Brighton.
He also used to work in music retail and has a broad and slightly bonkers spectrum of tastes.
He really loves weird (to me) indie from the 80s like Scraping Foetus Off The Wheel. Heard of them ? Well, maybe you haven't because they used to change their name a lot, though it always had the word "Foetus" in there somewhere.
He also loves 4AD stuff, early British electronica, a fair bit of jazz, classical and prog rock.

We're both big Yes fans and went to see the Symphonic tour in Brighton together.

One sunny day a couple of years ago, I drove across to see him and his family and as his wife was working we decided to take the kids into Lewes and have a nose around. He has a girl and a boy and the latter was still a baby so we spent the afternoon mincing around a market town with a pushchair and two kids in tow. We're both quite big blokes. Very Brighton :eyebrows:

Anyway .. we pass a church hall and see a sign saying "ROGER DEAN EXHIBITION NOW ON !" and quickly dropped whatever vague plans we had and hot-footed it inside.
It was glorious.
A real mixed bag of the man's art, from eight foot canvasses used as Yes albums (the later ones) to small pencil sketches, designs for his Hobbit-style house that actually got built in Thailand (not a squared edge anywhere) and lots of calligraphy, oil and watercolours and odd bits of product design and memorabilia. There was a small merchandise stall too, offering calendars and t-shirts. The man himself actually walks around Lewes in a black bomber jacket with his own logo on the back, which I find hilarious :mental:
He lives there, in case you're wondering ...

Fast forward to this year and Darran's just turned 50. For this milestone, his whole family clubbed together to buy him a new turntable - a Pioneer PL-30-K from Amazon - and he was made up as he's still got hundreds of records from his Our Price days, but had nothing to play them on - kids can take over a man's life, can't they ?
Better yet, his father-in-law bought him the new Yes Progeny triple vinyl collection, showcasing the classic live performances from the early 70s.

Darran works from home and his house is opposite the village pub and the post office/shop a few doors down from it.
A couple of weeks ago he spotted a familiar figure standing right outside his front gate with a bunch of cardboard poster tubes. The white-haired man crossed the road and went inside the store, and emerged tube-less, presumably having posted some of his wares around the world.
Darran stepped outside, smiled his charming smile and said "Excuse me, Mr Dean, but would you mind signing something for me ?"
Roger Dean entered his house, took a Sharpie from his pocket and signed his beautiful signature across the glorious, full-colour booklet accompanying the collection, proclaiming "Blimey ! I don't remember that one ? They owe me some royalties for that little lot .." and left muttering to himself, no doubt happy to discover one of his images had been reworked for the new compilation but also slightly miffed he wasn't told.

Either way, Darran's chuffed to nuts :eek:

[Firebottle]

I'm loving your posts Paul, real passion.

Also quite liked the 'and slightly bonkers spectrum of tastes. '

I've recently bought a couple of old Rick Wakeman LP's and have had Caravan - 'For Girls who grow plump in the night' in my collection forever.

The CD collection is very broad but does include The Ultimate Yes Album plus 'Pictures at an Exhibition' by ELP.

:cool:

[rigger67]

Also quite liked the 'and slightly bonkers spectrum of tastes. '





That's a known phenomenon among record shop staff.
Along with an endless ability for making lists, we end up with a very quirky personal selection of musical loves, likes, tolerates, dislikes and hates.

I could probably start another thread just talking about music retail, but as you work with other people over a period of time, their tastes tend to rub off on you.
The funny thing is, sometimes the opposite happens.
Take, I don't know, say .. Jeff Buckley.
To me he always sounded like a whiny, nasal, shoe-gazing cockwomble.
To others, he's a god.

"Oh but you simply must listen to Grace ! It's amazing !!"

So I did. On their insistance - and in exchange for the whole of Headhunters and most of Bitches Brew I put myself through it. Again. And then again the next week, ad infinitum.

I still don't get it and I hate him more than ever.

On the other hand, I quite like Nick Drake after thinking I'd probably loathe him. I even own a couple of albums now.
Similarly, I got into Japan (a band I "missed" somehow), Cocteau Twins and Eels, who I really thought I would despise but actually I bloody love them now and own most of their back catalogue.

Even now I get people saying "You got me into jazz ! Thanks, mate !!" every so often ..

I even DJed a wedding last summer and the bride turned out to be an old customer of mine.
If we'd drawn a Venn diagram of our music tastes it probably should've been me marrying her, but that's another story ... :eyebrows:


Going back to prog, I had a stoner mate when I was about 17 or 18, who worked with me at Sainsbury's. He drove a brown Allegro that was worth less than the sound system and I swear you could drive it home just on the bass bins in the back.
All he listened to was dub and Gong and a smidge of early Floyd.
Class bloke. Really lovely guy.

There's a definite link between dub and prog, have you ever noticed ??
I went to see Lee Perry and Mad Professor last week and despite a smattering of "Yoot", the majority of the audience was my age or older (I'm 49) and most looked like they owned a few Roger Dean gatefold sleeves.

I can't for the life of me imagine what the connection is though ... :peace:

[walpurgis]

There's a definite link between Dub and Psy/Trance too. 'Skylon' by OTT?

[Spectral Morn]

Yes I would say I like Prog, Greenslade, Renaissance, No Man, Turning Point, The Watch, PFM, Passport, Camel, early to mid 80s King Crimson, Alan Parsons Project, Kaipa, Starcastle, Pavlovs Dog, Gong (mid period, through to the jazz rock period), UK, Bruford etc.

I like the usual suspects too.

[The Deacon]

Survivor wrote: "Are Yes, Jethro Tull, Genesis, King Crimson, ELP, Pink Floyd, Rush, Marillion, The Moody Blues the same genre? I would say not."




You are just trying to be smart.


Of course they are. (With the exception of Rush ,which are in a genre all their own. This genre is hight, "Ordure" aka " Excrement". Okay, Rush did do two or three of those foul, verbose, preachy "prog-OPERA" lps.

[surv1v0r]

Dear Deacon

I suspect that even in French your posts would make less sense than the views expressed by rigger67. The whole idea of "musical genres" is totally subjective. Where would you position Cream, Weather Report, The Goddamned Grateful Dead, Soft Machine, Hendrix, Yardbirds, etc., etc., etc.?

I too think that I think Tower had it pretty much correct:
Classical Rock and Pop Soul Specialist : Jazz, Blues, Folk, Country, World, OSTs, Reggae

Like or loathe an artist, it is the music that counts, not the classification :)

[The Deacon]

I recently pidgeon-holed CREAM on (what turned out to be) a metal"prog" forum as being heavy rock and they, all to a man - drew ranks and laughed me outta there.

You never know what mindset your dealing with on the internet. Also , more importantly maybe, what AGE.


Of course music is the main thing, but - face it - music DISCUSSION forums would be nothing if it were not for the exercise of differentiating music and comparing the sound of one lesser-known band to one better-known. I mean, what ELSE would there be to write of: countless reiterations of a band's history and discography; what toothpaste Wakeman currently uses?

Labelling, putting down hard-bordered definitions, semantics are what music forums are all about. The reality perhaps of course is not - when this music was first being made, do you think the bands had an idea, a ridgid "prog" template which vigerously had to be adhered to? Of course not. Take for instance what is considered a "quintessential" prog lp - "Nursery Cryme". Three tracks are not what I'd consider prog in the least.


The Sweet Floral Albion article #32 has an intelligent , 67 point observation on the necessity/or no of blurry formal
demarcations ,of cramping, circumscribing genre protocols for Psychedelic music.
This article can, of course, be read by progheads just by substituting the word "psych" with "prog". (Only bear in mind,
psych is likely harder to differentiate than is prog.)

I very much recommend peeps search this out on the web.

[rigger67]

I would put Rush in heavy rock ahead of any of the other names mentioned.

The internet is all about opinions.
Period.


Merci pour tes contributions interessants, mon ami :kiss::kiss:

[Floyddroid]

I love prog and neo prog. Listening to Big Big Train at the moment. love em! http://theprogmeister.com/big-big-train-stone-and-steel/


This music discussion section of the forums is nigh DEAD so we have to inject some life into it.
And what is more live-giving-potent than progressive rock?


Who are the prog mens here?
(We want pictures of your collection.)

What you sturdy mens listen to of late?

[Haselsh1]

I have been a huge Prog Rock fan since 1973 when I was fourteen.

These days my main form of musical pleasure is Ozric Tentacles whom I think are everso kind of Proggy. They have the classic Prog guitar doodlings melted in with some serious synth. The whole lot is syncopated to hell and back and makes foot tapping really thoughtful.

Their early stuff is by far the best, maybe Pungent Effulgent, but their more recent stuff is far better (or more heavily) produced. All of their stuff is a much better buy on vinyl than digital. Apart from the Ozrics though, I am one of the many who is buying all of the old classics on reissued vinyl.

[Haselsh1]

I would put Rush in heavy rock ahead of any of the other names mentioned.

The internet is all about opinions.
Period.


Merci pour tes contributions interessants, mon ami :kiss::kiss:

I really shouldn't have to say this here on this forum but yes, the internet and particularly this forum are all about opinions and discussions. As far as I am concerned, if you don't like this forum, fuck off and find another. Long live speech and discussion.

[walpurgis]

Yeah. I like Ozrics too and Eat Static. Great stuff! :D

[Haselsh1]

Yeah. I like Ozrics too and Eat Static. Great stuff! :D

Oh yeah, Eat Static, Shpongle, Younger Brother, Leftfield... bring it on.

Strangely though, don't like the new Underworld album.

[RichB]

Yeah. I like Ozrics too and Eat Static. Great stuff! :D

I saw them on the same bill in Newcastle many years ago... Great night what I can remember of it. Took me all night to walk home in a somewhat dazed and confused state afterwards.

[The Deacon]

I just made a post on Walking Dead Season 5 to my forum.

Ozrics (and Porcupine Tree) bring me to mind of this: some 80 -odd episodes so far of fecking SAME OLD, SAME OLD.

Regurgitation ad nauseum.

I have only "Live Underslunky" and "Strangitude" and thats all you need by them - no more than two titles. You can replace 'Pungent Efflungent" with either of those and makes no diff. They say "Erpland" is their best one.


During 90s two similar hippie-spacerock bands were on the obscure Poor Man's Record label (or something like that) : Ear Candy (3 lps I know of) and Mynd Music . Long spaced psychedelic instrumental rambles. Good luck finding them.

[Pierre De Grenoble]

First prog album ever was King Crimson's Court of..( no need to discuss that one cos it's a given :sofa:)

never sure what constitutes "neo-prog" or if Shpongle and Eat Static qualify but I love their stuff anyways.

it's what floats yer boat at the time I guess.

Always loved Porcupine Tree, but not so Steve Wilson. Saw him live last year and I reckon watching paint dry would have been more interesting.

I'm also fond of a lot of Dub never saw the link to Prog though. I truly do blame John Peel for that...

and as for my liking of dodgy erotic and cozmic disco 12" 45's I blame my psyche :confused:

[Haselsh1]

First prog album ever was King Crimson's Court of..( no need to discuss that one cos it's a given :sofa:)

never sure what constitutes "neo-prog" or if Shpongle and Eat Static qualify but I love their stuff anyways.

it's what floats yer boat at the time I guess.

Always loved Porcupine Tree, but not so Steve Wilson. Saw him live last year and I reckon watching paint dry would have been more interesting.

I'm also fond of a lot of Dub never saw the link to Prog though. I truly do blame John Peel for that...

and as for my liking of dodgy erotic and cozmic disco 12" 45's I blame my psyche :confused:

No mate, they are definitely not Prog Rock which effectively died out during the seventies. For me, real Prog Rock has to be King Crimson and ELP. I guess the really good early Gabriel and Hackett Genesis was Prog but the later stuff was just drivel. They only really produced two fantastic albums of Prog material. In real terms we saw the last of Prog Rock a very long time ago. It's a shame it was so short lived.

[Haselsh1]

Take for instance what is considered a "quintessential" prog lp - "Nursery Cryme". Three tracks are not what I'd consider prog in the least.


Nursery Chryme is nowhere near as Prog as is 'In The Court Of The Crimson King' and is only really representative of the early seventies. Likewise, most of the early ELP stuff is extremely Prog orientated. For me, the most Prog of any Genesis album was 'Foxtrot'.

[struth]

Genesis were always changing their style. They were one of my bands from late 60's up until gabriel left... Still liked some of the stuff they did and the cds.. Longs and shorts was good, but in a different way. Nursery C was an excellent album afaic.
Family was another superb band, with Roger C chanting away...boy, he could sing! Happy days musically those were.....can still here mum shouting turn that din down:D

[Haselsh1]

Genesis were always changing their style. They were one of my bands from late 60's up until gabriel left... Still liked some of the stuff they did and the cds.. Longs and shorts was good, but in a different way. Nursery C was an excellent album afaic.
Family was another superb band, with Roger C chanting away...boy, he could sing! Happy days musically those were.....can still here mum shouting turn that din down:D

LOL... I remember once asking my dad what he thought to Burning Rope and he just looked in a certain way and said "It's a bit raucous". He was right of course. That was their worst ever album of noise.

[Pierre De Grenoble]

Family was another superb band, with Roger C chanting away...boy, he could sing! Happy days musically those were.....can still here mum shouting turn that din down:DFamily were in deed a great band IMHO their first 5 albums (and that includes "old songs") are essential, but never in a million years were they a prog band."Dolls House" is a definite contender for a psych classic tho...

[struth]

Family were in deed a great band IMHO their first 5 albums (and that includes "old songs") are essential, but never in a million years were they a prog band."Dolls House" is a definite contender for a psych classic tho...

they crossed many boundries tbh. Starting blues into mainstream rock, of which its anyones choice f what is and isnt tbh. through to pop a bit. rhythm and blues., psych etc. . others I was devoted to from their start were Black Sabbath, Zeppelin and the groundhogs with Tony TS...

Aye, those were great days, and I'm getting all emotional doh....:)

Big shout for Frankie Miller as a chanter too.....:D

[The Deacon]

they crossed many boundries tbh. Starting blues into mainstream rock, of which its anyones choice f what is and isnt tbh. through to pop a bit. rhythm and blues., psych etc. . others I was devoted to from their start were Black Sabbath, Zeppelin and the groundhogs

Then you would be interested in a rare Daffodil blues sampler lp I have on the collectable tinfoil covers series.
Has Mayall, Tony McPhee,Clapton.....


....
I always confuse that Family "Dolls house" lp with Audience "House on the Hill" (which I just got a free copy of yesterday and I bin trying hard to get into it but can't - except for last part of side one.)

[Haselsh1]

For me, Prog Rock contained a level of musical complexity that had never been heard before and of course it made use of synthesisers which had just been invented a few years earlier. I love Bank's use of the ARP Pro Soloist especially during 'The Lamb'. Later on, I love the music of early Rush and their use of synthesisers. My one regret is that I never got to see the 'real' Genesis but I saw Yes many times and of course Rush.

[struth]

Then you would be interested in a rare Daffodil blues sampler lp I have on the collectable tinfoil covers series.
Has Mayall, Tony McPhee,Clapton.....


....
I always confuse that Family "Dolls house" lp with Audience "House on the Hill" (which I just got a free copy of yesterday and I bin trying hard to get into it but can't - except for last part of side one.)

Yes it sounds like a good album. I rarely listen to that stuff now. In fact i dont really listen to music much now alas.


For me, Prog Rock contained a level of musical complexity that had never been heard before and of course it made use of synthesisers which had just been invented a few years earlier. I love Bank's use of the ARP Pro Soloist especially during 'The Lamb'. Later on, I love the music of early Rush and their use of synthesisers. My one regret is that I never got to see the 'real' Genesis but I saw Yes many times and of course Rush.

Sure Shaun. As in the title it was a progression from standard rock..music has a habit of progressing then regressing a bit like the economy i guess and often diametrically opposite.

[Pierre De Grenoble]

For me, Prog Rock contained a level of musical complexity

don't think I ever thought of prog as strictly that.. to me it was more of a "thinking man's rock", though it usually had keyboards and a flute was a bonus... :D

I'd class this as a (much loved to me) prog tune.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukP8iVw1RvE

[The Deacon]

Place sucks.

Is no real real prog love or knowledge here.

[struth]

You have a bizzare attitude Ivor. Alas if the site members lack of knowledge bothers you then thats tough luck. It is first and foremost a hifi forum

[Floyddroid]

I'm a prog fan sir. I am a life long Camel fan and at this moment in mourning for the loss of Keith Emerson. I have staged two prog (indoor) festivals and run my own website. Modern faves include Big Big Train, Combination Head and The Tangent. Why not have a listen to my firs attempt at a Podcast? It can be found here...
http://theprogmeister.com/the-progmeister-progcast/


This music discussion section of the forums is nigh DEAD so we have to inject some life into it.
And what is more live-giving-potent than progressive rock?


Who are the prog mens here?
(We want pictures of your collection.)

What you sturdy mens listen to of late?

[RichB]

Place sucks.

Is no real real prog love or knowledge here.

You are Andre, Rare Bird, The Permed One and I claim my 5 pounds.

Welcome back :-)

[Barry]

You are Andre, Rare Bird, The Permed One and I claim my 5 pounds.

Welcome back :-)

If he is, he's moved a long way from the UK! :D

[Marco]

You are Andre, Rare Bird, The Permed One and I claim my 5 pounds.

Welcome back :-)

Lol... That thought had also crossed my mind. However, upon analysing the prose used, it's not really his style, particularly post #12, which is *so* un-Andre like, it simply couldn't be him, unless he was trying really hard to disguise himself.

Marco.

[Spectral Morn]

Place sucks.

Is no real real prog love or knowledge here.

Then sir educate us. I love prog, but I am no expert in the genre, plenty I have never heard off, but might like.

[Bazil]

don't think I ever thought of prog as strictly that.. to me it was more of a "thinking man's rock", though it usually had keyboards and a flute was a bonus... :D

I'd class this as a (much loved to me) prog tune.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukP8iVw1RvE

Really enjoyed that , a pity the vocals aren't up there with the music , nevertheless a very good track.

[RichB]

Lol... That thought had also crossed my mind. However, upon analysing the prose used, it's not really his style, particularly post #12, which is *so* un-Andre like, it simply couldn't be him, unless he was trying really hard to disguise himself.

Marco.


And my welcome back comment was genuine.

I liked that guy's ramblings on prog, trance and the specialist genres he enjoyed.

[Pierre De Grenoble]

And my welcome back comment was genuine.I liked that guy's ramblings on prog, trance and the specialist genres he enjoyed.

:thumbsup:

[Haselsh1]

Place sucks.

Is no real real prog love or knowledge here.

I guess then, as you are so obviously the fount of all Prog knowledge, you wouldn't mind contributing to this thread in a positive way rather simply being inherently negative all of the time...? There are always the ones who simply talk over everything and are experts in everything but absolute masters of nothing and never actually contribute anything much at all. I do though think that all of the genuine Prog masters on this forum frequently have sensible discussions on their music of choice and do so as forward thinking adults rather than spoilt little citizens.

[Haselsh1]

You are Andre, Rare Bird, The Permed One and I claim my 5 pounds.

Welcome back :-)

OMG...!!! Maybe he has emigrated in body but not in mind

;)

[Haselsh1]

Yes well, it is lunch time and I am just thinking about a Camel toe session later today. 'Dust and Dreams' methinks. Beautiful music from the great Andy Latimer.

[Marco]

And my welcome back comment was genuine.

I liked that guy's ramblings on prog, trance and the specialist genres he enjoyed.

Oh yes, me too. Unfortunately however, he also had other, shall we say, less desirable traits... :rolleyes:

Marco.