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rikardo1979
22-03-2016, 06:04
Not sure if this is the right place to ask so if not please move elsewhere

I am pretty new to this community and I like to find a lot of useful stuff here and some very clever and helpful people around

I am computer geek and have been with comps since early 90's. I spend a lot of time online doing a lot of stuff and I use, administrate or moderate on many forum sites and communities.
I work on a lot of forum systems like myBB, phpBB, XenForo, etc...

I really miss some bit and pieces here especially some kind of a user ranking system, or award system. The reason being as for me as a new user I do not know how to find the right person who can help. Or if I do find some post very helpful how do I say thank you or how do I say I like some stuff without unnecessary posts like "that was it, thank you", "thanks, that helps" which just flood the whole threads and forum in general.
Thank you can brows pages after pages of this kind of replies which are not really helpful to someone who search some answers.
Hope you got my point here :D

Is this something what can be taken for a consideration? Any chance to have something like this here maybe?

CageyH
22-03-2016, 06:17
What is wrong with a polite "thank you" and an acknowledgment that it has fixed your problem.
Saying "I like" the post does not say if it was helpful or not in resolving an issue.

rikardo1979
22-03-2016, 06:19
What is wrong with a polite "thank you" and an acknowledgment that it has fixed your problem.
Saying "I like" the post does not say if it was helpful or not in resolving an issue.

nothing wrong, but is just flooding board with replies which are not useful and helpful to anyone else.. so simple "Thank you" button do exactly this ;)

rikardo1979
22-03-2016, 06:31
Also I do not see any notification no my panel when there is new reply in subscribed threads. Is there an option to enable this somewhere but I do not see it? And I dont mean to receive notification emails ;)

Scooby
22-03-2016, 07:07
If it is anything like the rep system on Wigwam I'd say "no thanks". Whilst it's not always the case, some of the highest rated people are only there because they have a coterie of followers who simply agree with whatever they say. Often they are rude and dismissive to any outsider and their rep is the opposite of their actual usefulness and helpfulness. Of course, this is a different forum, but my feeling is that this system breeds bullies and sycophants by encouraging cliques and mutual back slapping.

Just my view of course.

jollyfix
22-03-2016, 07:41
The reason being as for me as a new user I do not know how to find the right person who can help.
I am not sure what you mean by this Richard. There are loads of experts on this forum who are more than happy to help out etc. Why not just post a thread and they would find you. They would comment on that thread if they wanted to, not because they have to. Would you just want to mail them questions?

rikardo1979
22-03-2016, 09:26
I am not sure what you mean by this Richard. There are loads of experts on this forum who are more than happy to help out etc. Why not just post a thread and they would find you. They would comment on that thread if they wanted to, not because they have to. Would you just want to mail them questions?

nope :)
I always think out of the box. You looking at this as an User but I see this from other side, like admin.

With this system where people reply just to thank you simply flooding the whole board with tons of messages with no value for anyone, apart from user you thanking you or you liking his/her post.
All this messages have no value what so ever for others. They just fill the space and make it more difficult for you as a user trying to search for informative stuff. I have to just dig through pages and pages to find posts which actually have some technical or informative value

So posting a new thread without searching is big :nono::nono:in the forum etiquette and in most places against the rules. In places where I am administrator or moderator we strictly advice people to search and read before they create new thread.
So if this is found the thread is merged or post moved and user kindly advice once to not to do so. 2nd time is usually a warning...

And to be honest to search this place is a real nightmare...

sq225917
22-03-2016, 09:30
I don't need smoke blowing up my arse. Like any forum you learn who to trust and who's full of it. Do we really need a points system.

rikardo1979
22-03-2016, 09:33
I don't need smoke blowing up my arse. Like any forum you learn who to trust and who's full of it. Do we really need a points system.

you dont get my point here at all
is not about points and ego ... is about to keep the place tidy...so reduce posting stuff where you write "thanks" or anything like it ... ;) where you can simply press Thanks or Like button instead

rdpx
22-03-2016, 09:43
All this messages have no value what so ever for others. They just fill the space and make it more difficult for you as a user trying to search for informative stuff. I have to just dig through pages and pages to find posts which actually have some technical or informative value


If there was a rule saying that all posts had to have some informative or technical value then I for one would probably have to stop posting here, which would be a shame.

narabdela
22-03-2016, 09:50
If it is anything like the rep system on Wigwam I'd say "no thanks". Whilst it's not always the case, some of the highest rated people are only there because they have a coterie of followers who simply agree with whatever they say. Often they are rude and dismissive to any outsider and their rep is the opposite of their actual usefulness and helpfulness. Of course, this is a different forum, but my feeling is that this system breeds bullies and sycophants by encouraging cliques and mutual back slapping.

Just my view of course.

Not just yours. :thumbsup:

rikardo1979
22-03-2016, 09:55
If there was a rule saying that all posts had to have some informative or technical value then I for one would probably have to stop posting here, which would be a shame.

no you can post what ever you like if it comply with rules ;) but whats the point posting a reply with message "Thanks" What this gives me, as a user searching something???

jandl100
22-03-2016, 10:06
a post saying thanks or "I agree" shows that there is backing/support for the original post.
A rep or award will probably not be seen or noticed by most people and so would not convey that information to the AOS community and would be largely wasted.

awkwardbydesign
22-03-2016, 10:11
Richard, I think you may be misunderstanding the ethos or mood of this forum. It's more of a social medium, rather than technical. Taking time to thank people fits in nicely, although there is help available if you need it. I use various fora for different things; the 'Wam for bake-offs, diyAudio for building stuff, pfm for circular arguments, Audio Asylum for US based questions, Vinyl Engine, Lenco Heaven, etc.
You could make AOS more efficient and streamlined, but then what would Marco have left to do? Leave it as it is, I say.

rdpx
22-03-2016, 10:14
no you can post what ever you like

Thanks

awkwardbydesign
22-03-2016, 10:19
Thanks

If you had a thank you button you could have saved 20 seconds there.

walpurgis
22-03-2016, 10:22
you can post what ever you like if it comply with rules

Correct. Common sense and courtesy apply of course. The occasional bit of discord happens, but is moderated efficiently as need be.

rikardo1979
22-03-2016, 10:25
a post saying thanks or "I agree" shows that there is backing/support for the original post.
A rep or award will probably not be seen or noticed by most people and so would not convey that information to the AOS community and would be largely wasted.

you can clearly see on 1st post how big the reputation is ;) actually much better and more clear than reading 3 pages of replies ...

http://snag.gy/sqCHn.jpg

rdpx
22-03-2016, 10:25
If you had a thank you button you could have saved 20 seconds there.

Thanks

rdpx
22-03-2016, 10:28
you can clearly see on 1st post how big the reputation is ;) actually much better and more clear than reading 3 pages of replies ...

http://snag.gy/sqCHn.jpg

Actually I rather like this idea.

Marco, can we have as system where we can draw big blue arrows onto the posts that we like please?

Thanks.

:cool:

rikardo1979
22-03-2016, 10:29
If you had a thank you button you could have saved 20 seconds there.

no he could save me to scroll page down ;)

jandl100
22-03-2016, 10:31
you can clearly see on 1st post how big the reputation is ;) actually much better and more clear than reading 3 pages of replies ...


Not really.

I would have to go back to the post to see if it had been awarded anything - usually I am looking for the next post.

rikardo1979
22-03-2016, 10:33
It's more of a social medium, rather than technical.

Obviously I am in wrong place than :) as I looking for information and not dating site :P
:oops:

jandl100
22-03-2016, 10:35
I'm sure Marco will put on his pink tutu for you if you want to meet up. :thumbsup:

struth
22-03-2016, 10:38
I was on a sports site that used rep points and tbh there was some amount of clique repping went on...likes as well. When the cliques got outdone by the norms they then demanded all were reset to 0 as they were behind.... It was a farce as i had the most;) and wasnt in a clique lol

Marco
22-03-2016, 11:33
Richard, I think you may be misunderstanding the ethos or mood of this forum. It's more of a social medium, rather than technical.


Lol... No it isn't, Richard. Perhaps, that's simply your perception? I know where you're coming from, but the reality is that AoS is choc-full of very experienced audiophiles/music lovers and there are also a number of genuine experts in their field, who technically know their stuff and are on hand and willing to help any members who need it.

However, that advice/expertise is framed within a community of genuinely nice people, which creates the friendly and informal vibe that AoS is renowned for.

I think that's perhaps where you're getting the "social medium" aspect from. I dislike the rather 'cold' and detached atmosphere that exists on other forums, where often you feel as if you're interacting more with a 'computer-generated entity' than a fellow human being. So the 'warm & cosy' vibe on AoS, created to contrast that, is entirely deliberate and a big part of what the forum is about.


pfm for circular arguments..


I think that's rather unfair now on pfm and doesn't reflect the reality. Since Tony's booted a number of long-time selfish irritants, who were simply there because they enjoyed a (circular) argument and to ram home their 'opinions', to the detriment of others, pfm has vastly improved in that respect, and is now, IMO, a very good and informative forum. It's certainly the only other forum I read other than here.


You could make AOS more efficient and streamlined, but then what would Marco have left to do? Leave it as it is, I say.

Lol... Indeed, can't have me 'wearying'!

However, I think that "efficient and streamlined" somewhat misses the point. We like to think that the forum is well run, but things happen 'organically' here, rather than in a structured or regimented manner, which Richard (the OP) appears to want, and given his background in computing (and his associated analytical brain) that is not entirely surprising ;)

Hopefully, Richard will understand what I mean by that. So we won't be introducing any 'reputation system' here (not least because of what Grant has outlined in relation to cliques), even though I fully appreciate and understand Richard's reasons for requesting such, as I feel it would detract from what makes AoS uniquely AoS, and the 'organic spontaneity' that makes it special.

Marco.

rikardo1979
22-03-2016, 11:41
In this case we can close this thread as it will not serve any purpose from now :)
Thank you all
:cheers:

Marco
22-03-2016, 11:47
Lol... What are you like? :D

You seem to want to impose 'control' on things. Not everything is so quickly 'done and dusted'. What if others have something else they want to say on the subject? Therefore, the thread will remain open to allow for that. Indeed, we only close threads here in exceptional circumstances, usually only to stop circular arguments.

Marco.

rikardo1979
22-03-2016, 11:53
I dont understand the point:confused: but fair enough ;)
Nice day and chat about ...ahmm..not sure what:scratch:

jandl100
22-03-2016, 11:59
I think that's rather unfair now on pfm and doesn't reflect the reality. Since Tony's booted a number of long-time selfish irritants, who were simply there because they enjoyed a (circular) argument and to ram home their 'opinions', to the detriment of others, pfm has vastly improved in that respect, and is now, IMO, a very good and informative forum. It's certainly the only other forum I read other than here.

Ah, that's interesting.
I might well give PFM another go -- I'll see if the 'right' people have been booted! :lol:

CageyH
22-03-2016, 12:02
By the way Richard - are you are aware that a rating system already exists here?
The "Rate this thread" link near the top of this page will do what you want.

walpurgis
22-03-2016, 12:08
I dont understand the point:confused: but fair enough ;)
Nice day and chat about ...ahmm..not sure what:scratch:

You can't expect a discussion to end just like that. Your point had interest to some and maybe further comment will be forthcoming.

Marco
22-03-2016, 12:17
Ah, that's interesting.
I might well give PFM another go -- I'll see if the 'right' people have been booted! :lol:

Lol - well for me, most of them have. There are still a few belligerent idiots there, but every forum has some. IMO, the vibe over on pfm now is so much better than it used to be, and hi-fi topics are now no longer almost immediately derailed by the 'agenda monkeys'.

Marco.

anthonyTD
22-03-2016, 13:00
So Basicaly, instead of giving a real reply, we resort to the equivilent of text messaging! :doh:
Where we are not interested in the slightest in having a conversation with the recipient, just want to get our message across,:scratch: Because that's the way i feel about those who use texting on a regular basis to comunicate, and IMHO the reason many youngsters have no idea how to engage in real world conversations, when face to face with the recipient.
Yes, lets go that way! :rolleyes:

Macca
22-03-2016, 13:11
It's all a bit 'Facebook' isn't it?

This is a community site first, a resource second. Although it is a good resource.

We should be using the internet to facilitate normal, face to face contact, not to replace it. You get these youngsters 'texting' to each other even when they are sat in the same room. What's that all about?

Barry
22-03-2016, 14:07
Richard, if you want to find out if a particular subject has been discussed, then just use the 'Search' facility at the top right corner and enter in the appropriate 'keywords'. If you can't find what you want, or feel your question hasn't been answered to your satisfaction, then start a new thread and state exactly your query.

A good amount of factual (and largely technical) information has been lodged in The Knowledge. This is a valuable resource and is continually updated and added to.

Apart from some occasional thread drift, most threads remain on track and an acknowledgment of the usefulness of a reply, when appropriate, is what keeps this
forum the friendly place it is.

Joe
22-03-2016, 14:49
and hi-fi topics are now longer almost immediately derailed by the 'agenda monkeys'.

Marco.

ITYM 'no longer almost immediately derailed'!

Joe
22-03-2016, 14:54
Lol... No it isn't, Richard. Perhaps, that's simply your perception? I know where you're coming from, but the reality is that AoS is choc-full of very experienced audiophiles/music lovers and there are also a number of genuine experts in their field

And there's me, of course, but no forum's perfect.

CYUfPTeE0DM

awkwardbydesign
22-03-2016, 16:11
My comment about it being social is similar to Macca's comment. I know there are technical, helpful people here (hello Firebottle), but that isn't immediately obvious. Unlike say, diyAudio or Vinyl Engine. And as for the pfm comment, when did it change? I am talking about maybe a month ago. I don't know what it was like in the past.
I'm not complaining about any of the fora, just giving my perceptions. I use all of them as needed.

Puffin
22-03-2016, 16:11
I stopped reading at the end of the first page.

Marco
22-03-2016, 17:42
ITYM 'no longer almost immediately derailed'!

Lol... Ta. I meant to put 'now' before the 'no'. Now edited!

Marco.

sq225917
22-03-2016, 17:54
Marco, I decree that you can now delete this thread, it has served its purpose. Just think on the handful of kb storage space you can save on your server ;-)

Marco
22-03-2016, 17:59
My comment about it being social is similar to Macca's comment. I know there are technical, helpful people here (hello Firebottle)...


Indeed, and also 'hello' Jez (Arkless), AnthonyTD, Lurcher (Nick), to name be a few... ;)


...but that isn't immediately obvious. Unlike say, diyAudio or Vinyl Engine.


Yup, I know where you're coming from - and that's intentional. The last thing I'd want is for AoS to be portrayed as a bland, humourless 'database' for technophiles or 'solder monkeys', so the social vibe here is an integral part of the forum, in terms of it being first and foremost a community of like-minded people, sharing similar goals, although we all have our different ways of achieving them.

diyAudio is an excellent forum, and does what it 'says on the tin' nicely. However, I don't really rate VE, as for me it represents precisely what I've referred to above and I find it overly, bordering on obsessively, moderated. In short, it completely lacks 'soul', which is something that I'd like to think runs deeply through AoS.


And as for the pfm comment, when did it change? I am talking about maybe a month ago. I don't know what it was like in the past.
I'm not complaining about any of the fora, just giving my perceptions. I use all of them as needed.

I know you weren't complaining, and constructive feedback is always welcomed. I was simply addressing some of your observations and providing some insight of my own.

In terms of pfm, if only a month ago you felt that there were still circular arguments taking place, then I haven't seen any of those. I'm talking more about 12 months ago and before, where it was rife. I read the forum regularly and can see massive improvements in that respect since then, and not before time either, as the irritants and circular argument fetishists were getting away with murder and dragging the whole place down.

On a side note, I was saddened to hear of the recent passing of Markus Sauer, one of the mods there, from cancer. He was a good guy and an integral part of pfm. Life sucks sometimes.

Marco.

Marco
22-03-2016, 18:00
Marco, I decree that you can now delete this thread, it has served its purpose. Just think on the handful of kb storage space you can save on your server ;-)

:lolsign:

Save bandwidth at all costs!

Marco.

Audio Advent
23-03-2016, 00:41
And to be honest to search this place is a real nightmare...

I tend to use google for searching forums as forum search functions aren't particularly as good, especially some forum software where you can't seem to search for phrases, only getting results for each individual word in any context!

Maybe people don't know this google search method? You use the "site" function and a search looks like this:

Apples and pairs site:theartofsound.net

Note that there's no space between "site", ":" or the domain name.

That will search any page in the artofsound.net domain (including any subdomains, though for theartofsound.net there is only the "www" subdomain) for the words "apples", "and", and "pairs" .

Because it's Google, you can then use other boolean terms and characters. So to search for the whole phrase "Apple and Pairs" on AOS, you type:

"Apple and Pairs" site:theartofsound.net

or you want "apple" and "pairs" on the same page you can use:

apple NEAR pairs site:theartofsound.net

or

apple AND pairs site:theartofsound.net

etc etc ect

(sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs with google!).

So there should never really be any problem searching any website or forum, just use google instead of the forum's own search facilities.

Audio Advent
23-03-2016, 00:47
I dont understand the point:confused: but fair enough ;)
Nice day and chat about ...ahmm..not sure what:scratch:

If searching the forum is the reason for wanting the rep points, then hopefully you've continued reading the thread and my last post is helpful?

You don't know what you're going to miss if you don't stick around to find out !

Audio Advent
23-03-2016, 00:59
you can clearly see on 1st post how big the reputation is ;) actually much better and more clear than reading 3 pages of replies ...

http://snag.gy/sqCHn.jpg

Your example is from a specific type of forum that seems dedicated to solving technical problems for people - I've been on those type of forums before and actually the rep points people get are not an indicator of the quality of their replies! Often the people with high rep counts are geeks with no life who live on the forum simply to gain rep points and try to be the very first to jump on to the most simple of questions.

You also find that they can be rude and very unhelpful to people who have more complicated problems to solve or are looking for alternative solutions to the usual ones - they often don't listen and become arrogant (a mark of the type of person looking for rep points ...).

The most helpful person for your particular question could be someone with the exact specific knowledge you need but who doesn't often get involved in all the trival simple things - how will their reputation points be awarded?

All you do is end up rewarding people who help the most often but it's no real indicator of the quality of their help or depth of their knowledge in particular areas.

And then the thanking bit I find a social pain in the arse on forums - do you have to thank people for every reply? Or only when the reply is of an arbitrary quality of helpfulness? Then you find people just thanking their friends for agreeing with them when they weren't even involved in the discussion.

Pointless IMHO and creates completely the wrong vibe; a cold, detached, impersonal vibe.

rikardo1979
23-03-2016, 05:43
I tend to use google for searching forums as forum search functions aren't particularly as good, especially some forum software where you can't seem to search for phrases, only getting results for each individual word in any context!

Maybe people don't know this google search method? You use the "site" function and a search looks like this:

Apples and pairs site:theartofsound.net

Note that there's no space between "site", ":" or the domain name.

That will search any page in the artofsound.net domain (including any subdomains, though for theartofsound.net there is only the "www" subdomain) for the words "apples", "and", and "pairs" .

Because it's Google, you can then use other boolean terms and characters. So to search for the whole phrase "Apple and Pairs" on AOS, you type:

"Apple and Pairs" site:theartofsound.net

or you want "apple" and "pairs" on the same page you can use:

apple NEAR pairs site:theartofsound.net

or

apple AND pairs site:theartofsound.net

etc etc ect

(sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs with google!).

So there should never really be any problem searching any website or forum, just use google instead of the forum's own search facilities.

thank you for this short google search lesson :) maybe it going to help some others but for me this is nothing new ;)

http://snag.gy/h0cZp.jpg

This was done for fun for me back in 2012 as I have learned nothing new(almost)

rikardo1979
23-03-2016, 05:47
Your example is from a specific type of forum that seems dedicated to solving technical problems for people - I've been on those type of forums before and actually the rep points people get are not an indicator of the quality of their replies! Often the people with high rep counts are geeks with no life who live on the forum simply to gain rep points and try to be the very first to jump on to the most simple of questions.

You also find that they can be rude and very unhelpful to people who have more complicated problems to solve or are looking for alternative solutions to the usual ones - they often don't listen and become arrogant (a mark of the type of person looking for rep points ...).

The most helpful person for your particular question could be someone with the exact specific knowledge you need but who doesn't often get involved in all the trival simple things - how will their reputation points be awarded?

All you do is end up rewarding people who help the most often but it's no real indicator of the quality of their help or depth of their knowledge in particular areas.

And then the thanking bit I find a social pain in the arse on forums - do you have to thank people for every reply? Or only when the reply is of an arbitrary quality of helpfulness? Then you find people just thanking their friends for agreeing with them when they weren't even involved in the discussion.

Pointless IMHO and creates completely the wrong vibe; a cold, detached, impersonal vibe.

yet again nothing new to me as I was moderating that place for about 2 years where is now +800k users :) so that was a hell of the task some days

jandl100
23-03-2016, 06:40
I tend to use google for searching forums as forum search functions aren't particularly as good, especially some forum software where you can't seem to search for phrases, only getting results for each individual word in any context!

Maybe people don't know this google search method? You use the "site" function and a search looks like this:

Apples and pairs site:theartofsound.net

Note that there's no space between "site", ":" or the domain name.

That will search any page in the artofsound.net domain (including any subdomains, though for theartofsound.net there is only the "www" subdomain) for the words "apples", "and", and "pairs" .

Because it's Google, you can then use other boolean terms and characters. So to search for the whole phrase "Apple and Pairs" on AOS, you type:

"Apple and Pairs" site:theartofsound.net

or you want "apple" and "pairs" on the same page you can use:

apple NEAR pairs site:theartofsound.net

or

apple AND pairs site:theartofsound.net

etc etc ect

(sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs with google!).

So there should never really be any problem searching any website or forum, just use google instead of the forum's own search facilities.

Wow - no - amazing. I really didn't know that!

:thumbsup:

Marco
23-03-2016, 08:07
Neither did I. Nice one, Sam :thumbsup:

Marco.

Macca
23-03-2016, 08:28
news to me too - and useful, as I can never get the site search function to work for me.

jandl100
23-03-2016, 08:32
There you go, Richard - what a useful thread this has turned out to be. ;)

rikardo1979
23-03-2016, 09:08
There you go, Richard - what a useful thread this has turned out to be. ;)
last few post, they make me laugh. Sorry but its damn obvious what is this about but i don't give a...

jandl100
23-03-2016, 09:20
I don't know what you are reading into this, Richard, but you are reading it wrong!

What's wrong with people learning new and useful stuff, even if it wasn't what you originally intended? :scratch:

Marco
23-03-2016, 10:21
last few post, they make me laugh. Sorry but its damn obvious what is this about but i don't give a...

Yeah, you'll have to clarify that for me too, Richard, as I haven't got a clue what you're referring to.

Marco.

rdpx
23-03-2016, 10:46
When using the tapatalk app, there is the option available to "like" posts.

This doesn't seem to translate into anything on the main site mind you.

I had also never thought about using Google to search the forum, but I doubt I will use it very often...

Ulysses
23-03-2016, 11:26
If it is anything like the rep system on Wigwam I'd say "no thanks". Whilst it's not always the case, some of the highest rated people are only there because they have a coterie of followers who simply agree with whatever they say. Often they are rude and dismissive to any outsider and their rep is the opposite of their actual usefulness and helpfulness. Of course, this is a different forum, but my feeling is that this system breeds bullies and sycophants by encouraging cliques and mutual back slapping.

Just my view of course.

:thumbsup: Yep, totally agree

Marco
23-03-2016, 12:17
Indeed, I abhor that kind of nonsense and certainly wouldn't allow it to happen here :nono:

Marco.

Techno Commander
23-03-2016, 20:04
Id rather receive a thank you than a faeces-book style finger. :)

YNWaN
23-03-2016, 20:19
Ah, that's interesting.
I might well give PFM another go -- I'll see if the 'right' people have been booted! :lol:

Perhaps not all of them - I'm still a member of said forum and a regular poster ;). As Marco says, a number of people who were primarily interested in arguing for the sake of it (when they actually had nothing new to contribute) have stopped posting but you do still get some repetitive posting - that's the nature of the beast I'm afraid; it's the same people every time so I just ignore them.

Regarding topic drift, I would say that this forum suffers significantly less than many and, on the whole, the moderation works very well (but then there are a lot of moderators ;)).

awkwardbydesign
23-03-2016, 20:45
:thumbsup: Yep, totally agree
Noooo! "3,273,071 point(s) total" I have no idea what that actually means. Except that mine is bigger than yours?
Or not.

twickers
23-03-2016, 22:31
Maybe a rating system for Moderators? If they do a good job, as voted throughout the year, they can leave. If not they have to stay.

struth
23-03-2016, 22:36
Maybe a rating system for Moderators? If they do a good job, as voted throughout the year, they can leave. If not they have to stay.

There is only one way out of this job......


https://youtu.be/8t9x_y3vFic?t=16

walpurgis
23-03-2016, 22:37
Could we have a rating scale for ratings please? If a rating is crap, we should be able to indicate this. :eek:

YNWaN
23-03-2016, 22:45
I've 'rated' your suggestion and have started another thread to discuss it in detail.

twickers
23-03-2016, 22:48
Noooo! "3,273,071 point(s) total" I have no idea what that actually means. Except that mine is bigger than yours?
Or not.

The Wam rating system is broken, has been for years. If a new member with just a handful of posts gets repped by someone with a high rep score, they automatically get a 'reputation beyond repute'. Waste of time.

YNWaN
23-03-2016, 22:59
Yes, I have a "reputation beyond repute" so, as you say, obviously broken :).

Ulysses
24-03-2016, 07:27
Noooo! "3,273,071 point(s) total" I have no idea what that actually means. Except that mine is bigger than yours?
Or not.

Alas, yes yours is much bigger than mine.

As a rule of thumb, it's inversely proportional to how nice you are (of course you Richard [and others] are exceptions to that rule), but basically the more you have, the more you'll start to resemble this guy ;)


http://images.intouchweekly.com/uploads/images/file/28598/american-psycho-patrick-bateman.jpg?fit=crop&h=510&w=680

awkwardbydesign
24-03-2016, 11:09
Alas, yes yours is much bigger than mine.

As a rule of thumb, it's inversely proportional to how nice you are (of course you Richard [and others] are exceptions to that rule), but basically the more you have, the more you'll start to resemble this guy ;)


http://images.intouchweekly.com/uploads/images/file/28598/american-psycho-patrick-bateman.jpg?fit=crop&h=510&w=680

I actually do look rather like him! And I have an axe.

Macca
24-03-2016, 11:47
A man should have at least one axe.

walpurgis
24-03-2016, 12:14
A man should have at least one axe.

I have two. :)

CageyH
24-03-2016, 12:27
I have two axes, a splitting maul and a chainsaw but a low rep on HWW.

Firebottle
24-03-2016, 12:40
I actually do look rather like him! And I have an axe.

Now you're beginning to worry me :eek:

Macca
24-03-2016, 12:41
Only now?

myles
24-03-2016, 13:19
Indeed, I abhor that kind of nonsense and certainly wouldn't allow it to happen here :nono:

Marco.

All hifi forums seem to have cliquey nature about them, whether it be 'bigging up' sellers and their products or just general ass-kissiness. A thumb-up, like button or just comments of approval, it makes no difference how it is evidenced. Buying secondhand isn't easy, as you just don't know how tainted the recommendations are.
Still, it passes the empty minutes in between real life.

struth
24-03-2016, 13:41
All hifi forums seem to have cliquey nature about them, whether it be 'bigging up' sellers and their products or just general ass-kissiness. A thumb-up, like button or just comments of approval, it makes no difference how it is evidenced. Buying secondhand isn't easy, as you just don't know how tainted the recommendations are.
Still, it passes the empty minutes in between real life.

Bollocks

myles
24-03-2016, 13:54
Bollocks

Honestly, you can't see how hifi forums are? There are lots of good people with a lot of technical knowledge and are generally kind-spirited, but a new member has to do a lot of reading to filter them out from the shills, trolls, cliques and fraudsters.
There aren't many sites which don't have the negative baggage; TAS has impressed me. They don't seem to have any real cliques.

Macca
24-03-2016, 13:59
There are no shills, trolls, cliques and fraudsters here

myles
24-03-2016, 14:14
I was actually talking generally. I should have mentioned the worst of the lot; acolytes who appear as support for any senior member in their quest to quash any kind of 'revolution' by new or junior members.

Macca
24-03-2016, 14:41
I've no idea what you are trying to say other than 'forums are a bit like real life'.

myles
24-03-2016, 14:46
That hifi forums are in the main cliquey. Don't feel too bad about it though because it is only my opinion.

Macca
24-03-2016, 15:01
. Don't feel too bad about it though .

I'll do my best to pick up the pieces and carry on ;)

Do you think this forum is cliquey? I'd like to think not but it is hard for me to make an objective judgement.

jandl100
24-03-2016, 15:06
Well, all forums have their 'main characters' that post the most and therefore tend to dominate. And some clusters of personal friendship also occur and the resulting banter can appear a bit cliquey to those not in that cluster. But, well, that's real life, isn't it.
On AOS I don't find this offputting like I do on some forums.
I guess you just have to post more and get involved!

Marco
24-03-2016, 15:56
Apart from the OP, who else has voted 'Yes'? Come on, 'fess up! :eyebrows:

Marco.

YNWaN
24-03-2016, 15:58
Do you think this forum is cliquey?

Yes, I would.

walpurgis
24-03-2016, 16:05
Bollocks

Naughty Grant! :D

Marco
24-03-2016, 16:07
Yes, I would.

In what way, exactly? I guess all are to some degree.

Marco.

The Black Adder
24-03-2016, 16:10
Yes, I would.

Really?... I need more info on that. I hate Cliques and have found that with some other forums but I can't say this is a cliquey forum at all... everyone chats with each other and helps each other out if they can. That's how I see it.

walpurgis
24-03-2016, 16:15
No 'cliques' spring to mind for me. As far as I can tell, things here are pretty even handed. As they should be.

struth
24-03-2016, 17:20
Naughty Grant! :D

Was I?

Sozzy! Sure this will be accused a cliquiness too:doh: Not come accross any myself but if i do i will report it using the report facility.

Scooby
24-03-2016, 17:32
I think it's less cliquey than the others. For one, it has a critics corner that people aren't scared to use. Second, you can voice an opinion here without being attacked by a gang of half a dozen "know alls". Third, you can be a newbie and post an opinion without being reminded you are "new round here". Fourth you can dare to suggest it's cliquey without anyone saying its "bollocks".......oh bugger...........let's rephrase that one:

Fourth, you can raise the issue of cliquiness and it will be treated with good humour :)

walpurgis
24-03-2016, 17:36
Maybe we need a 'cliquiness' rating system. :eek:

struth
24-03-2016, 18:12
You cant please everyone, but at least we try to please some. Most don't give a hoot.... owls that for a quote....

StanleyB
24-03-2016, 18:15
Second, you can voice an opinion here without being attacked by a gang of half a dozen "know alls".
This is normally left to Marco and Macca :D. Most of us are always willing to listen and learn something new.

Marco
24-03-2016, 18:18
Oi, I'm just a daftee, and an amateur one at that! :D

Marco.

YNWaN
24-03-2016, 18:49
Hmm.. Perhaps 'clique' in the context of this forum isn't the right term as it suggests a number of smaller groups acting within a larger whole. However, there is a relatively small number of regular posters who know each other, share private jokes and generally support each other's views - in that sense they are a clique - at least that is my perception. As someone stated earlier though, such an element of clique is endemic to all forums, particularly if based on a subject as esoteric as hi-fi ;).

Roy S
24-03-2016, 18:52
'Clique' suggests that others are excluded (at least in my mind) & I haven't found that to be the case at all.

walpurgis
24-03-2016, 19:33
'Clique' suggests that others are excluded (at least in my mind) & I haven't found that to be the case at all.

I agree.

myles
24-03-2016, 19:51
Listen, I was talking about hifi forums in general. Don't take it to heart.

Joe
24-03-2016, 20:00
Apart from the OP, who else has voted 'Yes'? Come on, 'fess up! :eyebrows:

Marco.

It says who voted which way on the poll results!

Joe
24-03-2016, 20:01
I've no idea what you are trying to say other than 'forums are a bit like real life'.

That implies that forum are not 'real life', but in fact they are.

Marco
24-03-2016, 20:14
It says who voted which way on the poll results!

Hadn't looked up until now... I forgot it gave you that info.

Marco.

StanleyB
24-03-2016, 20:17
However, there is a relatively small number of regular posters who know each other, share private jokes and generally support each other's views - in that sense they are a clique - at least that is my perception.
We have already discussed the subjectivists and subjectivists at great length. But I would not go as far as to describe either of those groups as a clique, not withstanding the opposing views expressed by one group of people versus another group.

Marco
24-03-2016, 20:34
Hmm.. Perhaps 'clique' in the context of this forum isn't the right term as it suggests a number of smaller groups acting within a larger whole. However, there is a relatively small number of regular posters who know each other, share private jokes and generally support each other's views - in that sense they are a clique - at least that is my perception.

I think that's mostly just your perception, but I do know where you're coming from. I think that perception largely stems from the banter amongst the mods and some of the 'Scottish mafia'! ;)

And yes, there are a reasonable number of 'mods' here, but that's only because we like to reward those who contribute greatly to the success of the forum and selflessly offer their help and advice, so they become a 'Moderator', but not because there's much moderating to be done.

It's more about them being part of a 'team' who shape the development of the forum and help run it. Unfortunately, the software doesn't allow for 'promoting' members any other way, so in order to be given any authority (ability to move or delete posts/threads, etc), members of the team have to become 'Moderators'.

There are also rather more than a small number of regular posters (several hundred in that category in fact), although like most forums the 'active membership' is a small percentage of the total members registered. The key stat for any successful forum is the number of different members, outside of that category, who pop in for a look or to post something, so the names in the 'Users Online' list, regulars aside, are constantly changing on a daily basis.

Like I said, the perception of the "small number of regular posters"/'clique' thing comes largely from the input of the mods (team leaders), and the most prolific regular posters, and the fact that in most cases we all know each other (have a similar sense of humour) and are good friends. However, as I'm party to the stats, I can assure you that there's a lot more going on than that, often in areas of the forum and in discussions that may not be of any interest to you personally :cool:

Marco.

Jimbo
24-03-2016, 20:50
Think the vote is pretty conclusive?

Marco
24-03-2016, 20:54
Yeah, in that respect the thread could be closed. However, before I do that I'll wait to see if anyone else has got something that they want to say :)

Marco.

awkwardbydesign
24-03-2016, 21:01
Blimey, is this still going? I've been over on diyAudio hurting my brain (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/151421-26-pre-amp.html) so missed the afternoon's entertainment.
I don't find this forum cliquey as such, but let's be honest; Marco keeps quite a tight rein on proceedings. He seems to get involved in lots of threads, so his personality is quite strong here. Which is fine, unless Scottish independence or Richard D**n are involved, in which case the forum rules are out of the window!
I post here mainly because it is quite relaxed and friendly, and the cliqueyness is kept at bay, but there will always be a forum "personality". The Wam has changed it's personality recently, and for the better in my opinion, so I spend time there again.
And as far as technical help is concerned (hello again firebottle!) diyAudio is phenomenal, I'm getting offers I just can't keep up with, but it is intense; I feel quite stupid over there. This forum is more relaxed.

YNWaN
24-03-2016, 21:13
Stanley, my comments don't resonate with your own because I was not, in any way, referring to subjectivist V objectivist standpoints.

Marco, I think your summary is pretty much spot on.

Marco
24-03-2016, 21:15
I don't find this forum cliquey as such, but let's be honest; Marco keeps quite a tight rein on proceedings. He seems to get involved in lots of threads, so his personality is quite strong here.

I think that's a fair point, Richard. I know a lot of people here either personally, or from 'the old days' elsewhere, and so will interact with them on that basis. I also like to encourage/praise others in their various 'hi-fi journeys', so will often contribute to discussions on that basis, even if the topic isn't necessarily something that interests me. Above all though, when it comes to hi-fi, I'll only comment authoritatively on subjects that I genuinely know something about.

Marco.

BTH K10A
24-03-2016, 21:30
I think that's mostly just your perception, but I do know where you're coming from. I think that perception largely stems from the banter amongst the mods and some of the 'Scottish mafia'! ;)

And yes, there are a reasonable number of 'mods' here, but that's only because we like to reward those who contribute greatly to the success of the forum and selflessly offer their help and advice, so they become a 'Moderator', but not because there's much moderating to be done.

It's more about them being part of a 'team' who shape the development of the forum and help run it. Unfortunately, the software doesn't allow for 'promoting' members any other way, so in order to be given any authority (ability to move or delete posts/threads, etc), members of the team have to become 'Moderators'.

There are also rather more than a small number of regular posters (several hundred in that category in fact), although like most forums the 'active membership' is a small percentage of the total members registered. The key stat for any successful forum is the number of different members, outside of that category, who pop in for a look or to post something, so the names in the 'Users Online' list are constantly changing on a daily basis.

Like I said, the perception of the "small number of regular posters"/'clique' thing comes largely from the input of the mods (team leaders), and the most prolific regular posters, and the fact that in most cases we all know each other (have a similar sense of humour) and are good friends. However, as I'm party to the stats, I can assure you that there's a lot more going on than that, often in areas of the forum and in discussions that may not be of any interest to you personally :cool:

Marco.

That "banter" often seems intent on de-railing threads.

Macca
24-03-2016, 21:36
That "banter" often seems intent on de-railing threads.

That's a fair point but it isn't intentional. Nevertheless I think we could use a little more awareness in that respect. I'm as guilty as anyone.

Marco
24-03-2016, 21:45
That "banter" often seems intent on de-railing threads.

That's never the intention, Andy. It's simply something that happens 'organically', and is also a part of what gives the forum its relaxed and informal vibe. If the thread topic is strong or popular enough, then the "de-railing" will only be temporary.

The place for having a dour and 'rigidly-controlled information database' is The Knowledge. Outside of that, we like to be human! ;)

Marco.

BTH K10A
24-03-2016, 22:04
That's never the intention, Andy. It's simply something that happens 'organically', and is also a part of what gives the forum its relaxed and informal vibe. If the thread topic is strong or popular enough, then the "de-railing" will only be temporary.

The place for having a dour and 'rigidly-controlled information database' is The Knowledge. Outside of that, we like to be human! ;)

Marco.

Marco, if it wasn't for the fact it's the same little clique every time I might agree with you.

Marco
24-03-2016, 22:35
As they say in American movies: 'Whaddya gonna do?'

Every forum's got its good and bad points FOR YOU, so if you want to enjoy the former, then you have to put up with the latter. Honestly, you want to try keeping everyone here happy and see how you get on ;)

Marco.

Joe
24-03-2016, 23:18
That's a fair point but it isn't intentional. Nevertheless I think we could use a little more awareness in that respect. I'm as guilty as anyone.

I think part of the problem here is double standards. Sometimes, it seems it's OK to go 'off-topic', when it's seen as 'banter'/acceptable thread drift; sometimes it's slapped down with 'any further off-topic posts will be deleted without warning'.

struth
24-03-2016, 23:25
Decisions have to be made re that at times, and when it is decreed, then that is that. Its pretty much what you would expect anywhere imo, ..... Marco makes the rules mostly as its his forum, but he does listen, and tries to give folk plenty scope. Not really sure what the complaint is here, but I will refer folk to my last post. I am happy to bugger off if I am in any way causing this, but tbh, without a bit of fun in life then it becomes tedious. Thats my view anyway.

Marco
24-03-2016, 23:30
I think part of the problem here is double standards. Sometimes, it seems it's OK to go 'off-topic', when it's seen as 'banter'/acceptable thread drift; sometimes it's slapped down with 'any further off-topic posts will be deleted without warning'.

Yes, but the latter only occurs when someone's taking the piss/being a nuisance. Like Grant says, someone's got to call the shots and stop circular arguments or unwanted behaviour.

Marco.

walpurgis
24-03-2016, 23:35
I think part of the problem here is double standards. Sometimes, it seems it's OK to go 'off-topic', when it's seen as 'banter'/acceptable thread drift; sometimes it's slapped down with 'any further off-topic posts will be deleted without warning'.

I think it depends on the OP.

Some (who shall be nameless --- but they know and we know who they are) are a bit sensitive if a thread they've started gets any drift or excess chat on it. Bit silly and I suppose somewhat selfish in my view.

Joe
24-03-2016, 23:36
But there's seems no reason for the differing treatment; either thread drift is OK because it's natural, organic etc etc, or it's not OK because it derails discussion. There just seems to be a fairly random choice of when thread drift is or is not deemed not OK.

Marco
24-03-2016, 23:41
Yes, because it's an 'organic' thing, therefore each situation is judged on its own merit. You cannot apply rigid rules to these things. It's like holding a conversation with someone in real life: things can naturally go off in tangents.

Like I said before, out with of The Knowledge, which is strictly a resource for information, people are allowed as much as possible to be themselves, within the guidelines of our ethos - and if they step outside of that, that's when you'll see the warnings being issued you're referring to.

Marco.

walpurgis
24-03-2016, 23:42
Unfortunately Joe, there is no yardstick for what may be interpreted as thread drift. I think it's down to the OP generally, to indicate where they feel their thread has been impacted. Of course that threshold will be different for each member.

Joe
24-03-2016, 23:49
Unfortunately Joe, there is no yardstick for what may be interpreted as thread drift. I think it's down to the OP generally, to indicate where they feel their thread has been impacted. Of course that threshold will be different for each member.

Fair enough. I should add that it doesn't actually have much impact on me because I rarely start threads, so don't often feel that 'my' thread has been crapped on.

I think there should be certain 'no-go' areas for thread drift, such as classified ads; otherwise I guess it is, as you say, for the OP to complain if they're bothered by banter about farts or whatever.

Marco
24-03-2016, 23:51
Yes, classified ads are more strictly moderated in that respect than others.

Marco.

BTH K10A
25-03-2016, 05:31
Yes, but the latter only occurs when someone's taking the piss/being a nuisance. Like Grant says, someone's got to call the shots and stop circular arguments or unwanted behaviour.

Marco.

The problem is when it's the mods and their mates who are as you put it "taking the piss/being a nuisance".
Macca acknowledges it happens and recognises a bit more awareness is needed but others seem to think it's being selfish.

BTH K10A
25-03-2016, 06:02
As they say in American movies: 'Whaddya gonna do?'

Every forum's got its good and bad points FOR YOU, so if you want to enjoy the former, then you have to put up with the latter. Honestly, you want to try keeping everyone here happy and see how you get on ;)

Marco.

Yes, there are alway both good and bad points but the latter is now spoiling my enjoyment of the former.

There's nothing wrong with banter but there's a time and a place for it. I now see little point in starting threads when there's a good chance the mods and their mates are going to crap on it to relieve the tedium of life and god forbid if anyone is so selfish as to complain.

rikardo1979
25-03-2016, 07:45
I bring back the non working notification which I mentioned many posts back.
Also I really miss some kind of tagging system here (I am not familiar with vBulletin, but there should be a feature built in vBulletin or simple plugin which can be installed). So when ever someone tag a username this shows up in his/her notification bar. And same feature would be good for quotes.
So in this case I would not need to go through all posts to find one related to me

karma67
25-03-2016, 08:42
i think you might be better off on facebook mate :)

Marco
25-03-2016, 08:43
Yes, there are alway both good and bad points but the latter is now spoiling my enjoyment of the former.

There's nothing wrong with banter but there's a time and a place for it. I now see little point in starting threads when there's a good chance the mods and their mates are going to crap on it to relieve the tedium of life and god forbid if anyone is so selfish as to complain.

No-one's stopping you from complaining, Andy, otherwise this section of the forum wouldn't exist. Can't say I've seen much evidence of mods crapping all over your threads, so perhaps you could link to some evidence of what you're referring to, so we can look at it?

Marco.

jandl100
25-03-2016, 09:22
thread crapping or jolly banter between friends that just happens to occur on someone else's thread?

It's all in the eyes of the beholder.

Marco
25-03-2016, 09:55
thread crapping or jolly banter between friends that just happens to occur on someone else's thread?

It's all in the eyes of the beholder.

Indeed, and that's the thing: "thread crapping", in that respect, is usually spontaneous, and where someone simply reacts to a particular comment made, on the spur of the moment, because they find it funny, or whatever. There is never any deliberate or premeditated plan to disrupt someone's thread.

The other point worth making, since we're on the subject, is there's a misconception that if you start a thread, then it somehow belongs to you: it's "my thread"... Sorry, anything posted here effectively becomes the 'property' of the forum, and thus is added to the database, which is one of the reasons why we don't delete user accounts, and only delete posts or threads under exceptional circumstances.

"Gerroff of moi thread!" It's like a farmer shouting: "Gerroff of moi land!" - the difference being that the farmer is entitled to shout that, as he owns the land. That's not the case here, as no-one 'owns' any of the content submitted. Some folk may wish to bear that in mind.

Marco.

StanleyB
25-03-2016, 10:05
If we waited for only positive and constructive replies to each and every thread, the majority of them would be left unanswered or consist of single digit pages of replies. So called thread crapping and banter frequently keep topics active for long enough for someone to come along with valuable information, and extend the lifespan of the OP. When there is too much crap about those threads are often edited eventually, with only the relevant posts kept on record. So someone reading that thread a few days afterwards might not be aware that it was once full of banter etc.
But I am very surprised that there should be such an outcry from thread crapping. I have experienced a lot of that on posts related to my products, but I can't remember offhand a single case where I did not find the interruption of any relevance. An example of that was when discussions on variable DAC output to an amp led to a mention of gainclone, T-amps, etc. And that in turn spurned new threads on those amps, which morphed into discussions on cables, power supplies, etc. They helped to build up a reference, that then attracted readers who had done a search for topics on X or Y products, and were directed to AoS.

Marco
25-03-2016, 10:29
Some good points there, Stan. I think we all have to be a bit less 'precious', lighten up, and simply accept that the outcome of any discussion started is not something that can be controlled or predicted.

Marco.

struth
25-03-2016, 10:59
Agree with last 4 posts. Many forums do things differently and thats their privilege. If folk like their methods then fine but AoS has been pretty successful in doing it its way and dont see any reason to change that. I could say more but best i dont

awkwardbydesign
25-03-2016, 18:29
But there's seems no reason for the differing treatment; either thread drift is OK because it's natural, organic etc etc, or it's not OK because it derails discussion. There just seems to be a fairly random choice of when thread drift is or is not deemed not OK.

That's Marco for you! :rolleyes:
PS, the rolleyes are back. Make of them what you will. ;)

Marco
25-03-2016, 19:36
Lol... Very good! With that, I think this thread has run its course. Thanks to all who contributed :cool:

Marco.