LS3/5a speakers

[HackneyRF]

I noticed Bev's sale thread for these LS3/5a speakers.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?43687-LS3-5a-Speakers-Stirling-Broadcast-Mint-Condition-Rosewood-Finish&


I was just wondering what all the fuss was about these. They seem to be highly regarded in hifi circles. My late friend Tony Bolton (Hi Fi News) was also quite a fan. What do you all think are the strong points/weaknesses of these speakers. Obviously I'm seeking opinion because I'm thinking of making some changes!

Cheers

Loz

[walpurgis]

You need to be certain you have a system they'll work with otherwise you could be in for a disappointment.

LS3/5a do not really do scale or anything resembling deep bass, although they can sound bigger than you'd expect. They certainly have a transparency to them and image very well. Colourations are minor and seem to vary from one make to another for some reason. The tweeter retains the characteristic T27 slight dryness at the very top. It's not particularly intrusive on music though.

They have been vastly overpriced for some time. Blowed if I know why.

[Macca]

Overpriced because the far east like them and push up the prices. Might be calming down a bit now you can buy new ones again.

They have their charms if you want a balanced sound in a small room or near-field and you don't want an etched studio monitor sort of presentation. Limited dynamics, loudness and frequency response. Do a good job with 'Fifties jazz.

[Martyn Miles]

Not just '50s Jazz.

On female vocals they are superb.
Just listen to Mary Black.

Simple Folk Music comes over in a very realistic way.
Listen to that plucked acoustic guitar...

For me, listening to Vaughan Williams ' Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis ' is
very moving.

Going back to Bev's LS3/5as, the Stirlings are considered 'one of the best.'
I was very tempted to buy them...

Martyn.

[Ninanina]

To be honest one of the best sounds I ever heard at home was the LS3/5a's driven by a Rogers E40 integrated amp. This amp was built by Audio Note especially to drive the LS3/5a's

I am not saying that because I have a pair of LS3/5a's for sale but the sound this combination produced really was very good indeed

I am only selling my LS's as I no longer have an amp that can properly drive them and don't have the room for a 'second system'... :(

[spendorman]

Years ago I stood my 15 Ohm Chartwell LS3/5a's on top of my Quad ESL57's. switching between the two, amazingly, the musical balance was very similar.

[Ninanina]

Years ago I stood my 15 Ohm Chartwell LS3/5a's on top of my Quad ESL57's. switching between the two, amazingly, the musical balance was very similar.

Alex the 57's were the other best sound I have ever heard at home and I still regret selling mine. I drove the 57's with a Quad 33/303 and the sound was amazing but unfortunately I no longer have the room for a pair otherwise I would have them again in a heartbeat :)

[spendorman]

Alex the 57's were the other best sound I have ever heard at home and I still regret selling mine. I drove the 57's with a Quad 33/303 and the sound was amazing but unfortunately I no longer have the room for a pair otherwise I would have them again in a heartbeat :)

Yes, I like the 57's, still have two pairs, and four 303's, I reckon the ESL 63's are a bit easier to fit in to a small room than the 57's.

[Ninanina]

I reckon the ESL 63's are a bit easier to fit in to a small room than the 57's.

I did try a pair of 63's but again could not get them to work properly without a decent amount of space all round them.... shame because I love them :(

[HackneyRF]

Umm....some interesting opinions there. A small room is what I have so they would suit the space but I'm not sure the descriptions of the characteristics of the speakers would be up my street really. I guess they just have to be listened to really.......Anyone in the London area or anywhere else prepared to give me an audition?




I am only selling my LS's as I no longer have an amp that can properly drive them and don't have the room for a 'second system'... :(

Bev, what amp in your opinion would properly drive them?

[spendorman]

Unfortunately, I think that one of my 63's has suffered the adhesive failing on the stator and has nasty crackling noise. I'm not far, and the 63's are in a quite large room.

I reckon an affordable amp that goes quite nicely with LS3/5a's, is the Quad 303.

[Macca]

Any normal amp 20 watts and up will drive them. They don't demand current so they are an 'easy load'.

[spendorman]

Any normal amp 20 watts and up will drive them. They don't demand current so they are an 'easy load'.

Actually, for some time I ran my ones from a Teleton SAQ206B, sounded pretty good. Now that is a budget amp, and not very powerful at all.

[HackneyRF]

Any normal amp 20 watts and up will drive them. They don't demand current so they are an 'easy load'.

My Arcam Delta 60 for example?

[Macca]

Would be more than adequate.

[Barry]

Actually, for some time I ran my ones from a Teleton SAQ206B, sounded pretty good. Now that is a budget amp, and not very powerful at all.

6W from memory.

[spendorman]

6W from memory.
Correct, but seemed to be a fair bit more powerful.

[jandl100]

LS3/5a are one of the very best subwoofer synergy speakers I have heard.
Put a small-ish BK200 or REL Quake type of sub with them and suddenly the scale and dynamics simply explode! Amazing, I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't done it myself. And the lovely midrange is unaffected.
Certainly worth trying, probably room dependent.

[Simon_Nottingham]

What's with these ones (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-of-Rogers-LS3-5as-Early-Gold-Badge-Versions-Beautiful-Boxed-/311568230008?hash=item488ae9e678:g:fqQAAOSwZQxW6YA o)?

£2,211 and still a day to go. Wow!

[walpurgis]

What's with these ones (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-of-Rogers-LS3-5as-Early-Gold-Badge-Versions-Beautiful-Boxed-/311568230008?hash=item488ae9e678:g:fqQAAOSwZQxW6YA o)?

£2,211 and still a day to go. Wow!

Too many gullible people about. Just get a pair of Usher S520s and pocket the change.

[Audio Advent]

What's with these ones (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-of-Rogers-LS3-5as-Early-Gold-Badge-Versions-Beautiful-Boxed-/311568230008?hash=item488ae9e678:g:fqQAAOSwZQxW6YA o)?

£2,211 and still a day to go. Wow!

Certain ones are collectable due to certain mysticism over which versions sound the best etc. These are the gold badged ones from early Rogers production and are boxed and in excellent condition.

Hence there will be enthusiasts fighting over these.

I'd say the same about Beatles records which go for tens of thousands - it's the same music on each white album whether it's numbers 0004 or 9940, or a £2 CD for that matter, considering I can take them or leave them!

[Martyn Miles]

What's with these ones (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-of-Rogers-LS3-5as-Early-Gold-Badge-Versions-Beautiful-Boxed-/311568230008?hash=item488ae9e678:g:fqQAAOSwZQxW6YA o)?

£2,211 and still a day to go. Wow!

At the other end of the 'LS3/5a prices', a pair went for £410 on eBay recently.

[Wakefield Turntables]

£3900 for a pair of coloured shoe boxes?

[Martyn Miles]

Certain ones are collectable due to certain mysticism over which versions sound the best etc. These are the gold badged ones from early Rogers production and are boxed and in excellent condition.

Hence there will be enthusiasts fighting over these.

I'd say the same about Beatles' records which go for tens of thousands - it's the same music on each white album whether it's numbers 0004 or 9940, or a £2 CD for that matter, considering I can take them or leave them!

Re. The Beatles, I got 'hooked' and bought the re-mastered Mono Beatles CDs.
I later sold them and went back to my original LPs.

[walpurgis]

£3900 for a pair of coloured shoe boxes?

Could have got a very decent pair of Tannoys for that much. :)

[southall-1998]

£3900 for a pair of coloured shoe boxes?


Yup, looks so!

S.

[Martyn Miles]

To be realistic, if you want a pair of LS3/5as buy a pair of the Falcon Acoustics' ones.
£1,485 will buy you brand new speakers.
What more could you need ?

Note:
No Far East 'Obsessive LS3/5a Collectors' to answer the above question.

Martyn.

[tubehunter]

Over priced then and still is:)




http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/EFD6FB7C-BE67-4D59-BCDB-E49BD5FA2F48_zpsybclxc4n.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/halx00/media/EFD6FB7C-BE67-4D59-BCDB-E49BD5FA2F48_zpsybclxc4n.jpg.html)

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/165D5A69-FAA9-4AE2-BD61-01C63B394AD6_zpsya9zx2am.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/halx00/media/165D5A69-FAA9-4AE2-BD61-01C63B394AD6_zpsya9zx2am.jpg.html)

[Martyn Miles]

Over priced then and still is:)




http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/EFD6FB7C-BE67-4D59-BCDB-E49BD5FA2F48_zpsybclxc4n.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/halx00/media/EFD6FB7C-BE67-4D59-BCDB-E49BD5FA2F48_zpsybclxc4n.jpg.html)

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/165D5A69-FAA9-4AE2-BD61-01C63B394AD6_zpsya9zx2am.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/halx00/media/165D5A69-FAA9-4AE2-BD61-01C63B394AD6_zpsya9zx2am.jpg.html)

I recall the magazine ( Hi Fi Choice ? ) also reviewing the Audiomaster version of the LS3/5a.
Both makes are now VERY collectable.

These 'Obsessive Collectors' have many pairs of Audiomasters, Chartwells, Rogers, etc. piled up in their rooms.
Never used, of course...

I like LS3/5as for what they are.
Nice little speakers for listening to music.

I am currently refurbishing an unusual pair, with removeable back to the cabinets.

As for why these little speakers have become SO collectable is, frankly, as mystery to
me.
It's a strange World we live in.

Martyn.

[DSJR]

The B110 bass unit is now completely outclassed by modern drivers, although it's nice perhaps that Falcon are re-manufacturing this driver to 'at least as good' a spec as the originals.


The 3/5A cost the tax-payer a fortune in development costs at the BBC and the main drive unit had to be at one end of the tolerance spread. So many were rejected even in the 'good old days' of the mid 1970's.. What isn't known much is that the Bextrene cone goes absolutely bananas at around 1.5k, goes into a bit of a death plunge over this frequency and then suffers another HUGE resonance at 5k or so, according to measurements taken by Harbeth (they had all the KEF tooling I understand when KEF gave up on it, so actually made a few and tested all of them for their own 3/5A version, regarded as one of the best of the later versions I believe). Really not a very good result and one reason why the 3/5A crossover was so over-complex as the 1.5k peak needed to be tamed without affecting output further up. The Kan had none of this and the ghastly (for me) result is there to hear.

Sorry Martyn, this is one BBC ssssqueaker-speaker that really was 'Bollocks' to me and it still is in the company of so many better miniatures today - in my opinion. Let the far easterners have them - silly idiots for spending so much money - in my opinion!

[Martyn Miles]

The B110 bass unit is now completely outclassed by modern drivers, although it's nice perhaps that Falcon are re-manufacturing this driver to 'at least as good' a spec as the originals.


The 3/5A cost the tax-payer a fortune in development costs at the BBC and the main drive unit had to be at one end of the tolerance spread. So many were rejected even in the 'good old days' of the mid 1970's.. What isn't known much is that the Bextrene cone goes absolutely bananas at around 1.5k, goes into a bit of a death plunge over this frequency and then suffers another HUGE resonance at 5k or so, according to measurements taken by Harbeth (they had all the KEF tooling I understand when KEF gave up on it, so actually made a few and tested all of them for their own 3/5A version, regarded as one of the best of the later versions I believe). Really not a very good result and one reason why the 3/5A crossover was so over-complex as the 1.5k peak needed to be tamed without affecting output further up. The Kan had none of this and the ghastly (for me) result is there to hear.

Sorry Martyn, this is one BBC ssssqueaker-speaker that really was 'Bollocks' to me and it still is in the company of so many better miniatures today - in my opinion. Let the far easterners have them - silly idiots for spending so much money - in my opinion!

Well, Dave, I know your opinions as we have discussed at great length.
The P3-ESRs are definitely superior, but I do have an affection for the LS3/5as.

My friend, for whom I built a pair of Falcons, loves them.
He now has two pairs of LS3/5as.

After listening to my Harbeths he sees what I like about them,
but he remains an 'LS3/5a Man.'

Each to his own.

I do agree about the Far Easteners having them,
but please you people do give them a listen...

Martyn.

[Martyn Miles]

I recall the magazine ( Hi Fi Choice ? ) also reviewing the Audiomaster version of the LS3/5a.
Both makes are now VERY collectable.

These 'Obsessive Collectors' have many pairs of Audiomasters, Chartwells, Rogers, etc. piled up in their rooms.
Never used, of course...

I like LS3/5as for what they are.
Nice little speakers for listening to music.

I am currently refurbishing an unusual pair, with removeable back to the cabinets.

As for why these little speakers have become SO collectable is, frankly, as mystery to
me.
It's a strange World we live in.

Martyn.

To continue this thread, I have completed the LS3/5as with removeable backs.
Sitting on the end of an Akai receiver in a bedroom, they're getting a lot of use.
I can't compare them with 'proper' LS3/5as, but they do sound very good on
Radios 3 & 4.
They can you ' catch you out ' especially on radio plays with music.
Last Sat. I was listening to 'The Kraken Wakes' on R4', which used an orchestra as
part of the play.
It was thrilling to listen to through these little speakers.

Martyn.

[danilo]

Lucky for you that Radio Shack Minimus Speakers were not available outside of North america (or were they?)
Being a Herd Animal (in my younger days) ..I bought a pair.. ~4 " driver, Linaeum Ribbon Tweeter, Cast Ali Enclosure.
Reasonably/affordably priced too.
They sounded better that they should have.
Must have sold many Thousands of the things.
Novelty of the Real life sounds produced from a Teeny Box.. finally caught up with the hype. Many were Binned.
Others were disassembled for their tweeters.
Oddly, IMO these were Far better balanced /impressive Speakers than the LS 3 a things.. by a lot actually.
Yet there remains a cult following.
I honestly have No understanding of Why this is.. though.
Clearly an ODD world we have created.

[Macca]

Radio Shack was re-branded in the UK to Tandy, sometime in the late 'Seventies. So they probably were sold in the UK but I'm too young to remember for sure.

[spendorman]

The B110 bass unit is now completely outclassed by modern drivers, although it's nice perhaps that Falcon are re-manufacturing this driver to 'at least as good' a spec as the originals.


The 3/5A cost the tax-payer a fortune in development costs at the BBC and the main drive unit had to be at one end of the tolerance spread. So many were rejected even in the 'good old days' of the mid 1970's.. What isn't known much is that the Bextrene cone goes absolutely bananas at around 1.5k, goes into a bit of a death plunge over this frequency and then suffers another HUGE resonance at 5k or so, according to measurements taken by Harbeth (they had all the KEF tooling I understand when KEF gave up on it, so actually made a few and tested all of them for their own 3/5A version, regarded as one of the best of the later versions I believe). Really not a very good result and one reason why the 3/5A crossover was so over-complex as the 1.5k peak needed to be tamed without affecting output further up. The Kan had none of this and the ghastly (for me) result is there to hear.

Sorry Martyn, this is one BBC ssssqueaker-speaker that really was 'Bollocks' to me and it still is in the company of so many better miniatures today - in my opinion. Let the far easterners have them - silly idiots for spending so much money - in my opinion!

I agree that the B110 was not really a good unit to start with, but some years ago (more like decades!) I sat my Chartwell 15 Ohm LS3/5a's on top of my Quad ESL63's. The tonal balance was almost identical. This was not just my thoughts, but a couple of musician friends thought exactly the same. One wondered if speakers as large as the Quads were really necessary.

[struth]

Think radioshack was bought by tandy back in the 60,s... They (tandy)opened their first uk store in 73, in birmingham...Charles Tandy was a very smart guy

[Macca]

I thought it was just different branding - like Trio and Kenwood?

There was a Radio Shack branded shop near me in Liverpool back in the late '70s, but I don't remember if it changed to Tandy or just closed down.

[spendorman]

I thought it was just different branding - like Trio and Kenwood?

There was a Radio Shack branded shop near me in Liverpool back in the late '70s, but I don't remember if it changed to Tandy or just closed down.

In this area (London) our local the shop was named Tandy, plenty of stock had Radio Shack or Realistic on it.

I remember the battery club cards, a free card that allowed one to collect a free battery per month from the shop.

[Reffc]

The B110 bass unit is now completely outclassed by modern drivers, although it's nice perhaps that Falcon are re-manufacturing this driver to 'at least as good' a spec as the originals.


The 3/5A cost the tax-payer a fortune in development costs at the BBC and the main drive unit had to be at one end of the tolerance spread. So many were rejected even in the 'good old days' of the mid 1970's.. What isn't known much is that the Bextrene cone goes absolutely bananas at around 1.5k, goes into a bit of a death plunge over this frequency and then suffers another HUGE resonance at 5k or so, according to measurements taken by Harbeth (they had all the KEF tooling I understand when KEF gave up on it, so actually made a few and tested all of them for their own 3/5A version, regarded as one of the best of the later versions I believe). Really not a very good result and one reason why the 3/5A crossover was so over-complex as the 1.5k peak needed to be tamed without affecting output further up. The Kan had none of this and the ghastly (for me) result is there to hear.

Sorry Martyn, this is one BBC ssssqueaker-speaker that really was 'Bollocks' to me and it still is in the company of so many better miniatures today - in my opinion. Let the far easterners have them - silly idiots for spending so much money - in my opinion!

As a matter of fact, the current B110 is a better made drive unit than the originals and by a margin. Jerry has gone to extraordinary lengths not just to achieve the FR match and same spec, but has upped the specification and finish/quality of everything from the cones to the basket frame. Everything about the new Falcon made LS/35s should, in theory, better the originals. It is also the only "true" LS3/5a made as Falcon are the only ones with the BBC licence...as in they own the BBC licence (and not the BBC any more). Whatever one reads about the little speaker, there's little doubting its mid range magic, what it was designed for and famous for. In truth, few do it really that much better today, including Harbeth imho and I've owned a pair of those which to my mind were more coloured sounding than the LS3/5a. Everything has to be in context too, so one cannot compare the Falcon LS3/5a (or the originals) to a more full range speaker. They are what they are.

Having had cause to work with that drive unit recently on a hybrid JR149 build, I can vouch that it is a difficult drive unit to tame, not especially efficient (about 83dB/1w/1m when the required filter is applied) but it is a benign load and not hard to drive. There is some colouration through the mids but it's far from unpleasant. Such loudspeakers may not be personally my own cup of tea but the drive unit is a very well made thing, as is the modern production T27. As for the drive unit "going bananas" at 1.5K and 5K, that is somewhat of an exaggeration. Yes, it does have some resonant spikes, and at 5K it does have some cone break up resonance, but so do most other drive units made today at the extremes of their response, so it's little different. The difference is that it was run through its entire range rather than used as a mid unit only in those designs, and like many other drive units needs to have the break up resonances controlled, in this case by a steep (4th order acoustic) filter. Nothing whatesoever unusual in that.

The crossover isn't especially complex in the bass, it is just what it needs to be to make them work smoothly. Harbeth are NO different in this respect being higher order passive for most of them. The B110 requires a 4th order acoustic with a relatively simple series notch filter to address mid range cone resonance. Yes, there are way more efficient drive units made today, and better behaved ones, but it isn't really trying to be something new, but is satisfying a market demand for the return of the original spec LS3/5a and judging by the fact that a years worth of orders were placed at the Munich hifi show alone, they're flying out the doors world-wide, so have to be doing something right. They're proving to be as much in demand today as they ever were back in the day.

[Martyn Miles]

Quote: 'They're proving to be as much in demand today...'

Yes, Falcon have made the 'true' LS3/5a.
I'm not taking anything away from Stirling Broadcast and their V2 model, but in spite of everything
surely it can't really be an LS3/5a ?

Reviewers, such as Ken Kessler, raved on about the re-launched Rogers LS3/5a in 2008.
Made by Stirling, by the way.
I am sure it is/was excellent.

It's a little like an old Mini with a modern engine.
Competent, but not original.
A Mini has an 'A' series engine.
A Mini with another engine isn't a 'true' Mini.

That's the way I see it, for what it's worth...

[spendorman]

Quote: 'They're proving to be as much in demand today...'

Yes, Falcon have made the 'true' LS3/5a.
I'm not taking anything away from Stirling Broadcast and their V2 model, but in spite of everything
surely it can't really be an LS3/5a ?

Reviewers, such as Ken Kessler, raved on about the re-launched Rogers LS3/5a in 2008.
Made by Stirling, by the way.
I am sure it is/was excellent.

It's a little like an old Mini with a modern engine.
Competent, but not original.
A Mini has an 'A' series engine.
A Mini with another engine isn't a 'true' Mini.

That's the way I see it, for what it's worth...

Martyn, I think that you may know that I have Chartwell LS3/5a's, but you may not know that I have three Minis. This proves my madness.

1962 Mini owned since 1968, 1969 Mini owned since about 1975, 1969 Riley Elf owned since about 1976.

[walpurgis]

I've had thirteen of them. There were seven parked outside at one time.

[spendorman]

I've had thirteen of them. There were seven parked outside at one time.

Blimey, that's bad, but I still have mine.

[Martyn Miles]

I've had thirteen of them. There were seven parked outside at one time.

I once had seven bicycles...
More bikes than pairs of shoes.

Unlike my Wife, who is known at her school as
'Amanda ( Imelda ) Miles ' !!

[Martyn Miles]

We all know that Rogers made a new LS3/5a, the 60th Anniversary model, built by Stirling Broadcast.
A fine speaker...

Stirling have found a niche in the market.
I bought a pair of 'LS3/5a type ' speakers from a AOS member.
They were MS88s.
I really liked them.

Rogers have now made a 65th Anniversary model which is built in the Far East.
An LS3/5a Far East enthusiast, Jo Ki, has a pair a really likes them.
Jo is one of the few Far East LS3/5a Collectors whose opinions I take note of.

Other LS3/5a collectors in the Far East just seem to be collectors.
People who are completists and have to have every model available in their
collections.
A little strange.

I recently heard a pair of LS3/5a which were built in the Far East.
I am used to my '93 Rogers 11 ohm LS3/5as and these overseas models
certainly sounded excellent.
I was surprised how good they were, but I supposed I shouldn't have been.

UK LS3/5a enthusiasts will, presumably, will still prefer new LS3/5as
by Falcon Acoustics of Stirling Broadcast.

It's an interesting World...

Martyn Miles.