Record cleaning - What AM I doing wrong?

[lovejoy]

Hi all,
Having moved house and settled in nicely with the TT on a lovely new Isoblue rack I decided it was time to get down to a bit of record cleaning as a few of the new slabs of vinyl I've bought in the last few months were sounding pretty ropey.
Now I have to say, I'm not new to record cleaning. I've previously owned a Moth MKII RCM. The main reason I never really got on with it and eventually ended up selling it was that it was just too damned noisy. But I have to say that the results I got from it always underwhelmed me.
The problem I have is the amount of pops I get having been as meticulous as I can be following the clean. Question number 1 here for the seasoned experts is 'Should I expect a fair few noisy pops and clicks for the first few plays after a cleaning session?'. I ask this because after getting down to work with my Disc Doctor brushes and fluid last night, what I got at the end was overall a much improved sound from the records I cleaned, but a pretty unacceptable level of clicks and pops once I'd sat down for a listen. Within 5 minutes I put the arm back to its resting position and ran a carbon fibre brush around the record a few times, which was a slight improvement but it was still pretty noisy - I guess that was just as likely to have been improved by playing as it was by the CF brush.
I guess question 2 is do I need to buy another RCM? I have to say that having owned the Disc Doctor brushes and fluid for about a year or so, I'm generally impressed by what it does apart from this infuriating level of clicking and popping after cleaning - but I got the same from my Moth. Is it just all in my technique, which last night was thus:
Two brushes - One for applying cleaning fluid, another for rinsing. both brushes had brand new cleaning pads applied to them last night.
DD cleaning fluid applied to first pad and worked into the record sat on a flat, clean table with a clean cotton cloth underneath. Brushes working around the record for around two minutes per side. Dried off with brand new micro-fibre cloth, then take second brush which has been dipped in distilled water and again work around the record for around 2 minutes and again dried off with a second brand new micro-fibre cloth, then left to air dry a bit further before playing.
It was quite frustrating having used all new pads and new cloths only to find that I'm STILL getting a lot of clicks and pops.
Am I doing it all wrong, do I just need to play or brush the records a bit more, or are my expectations too high?
Any insight muchly appreciated.

[struth]

No and probably... Once cleaned properly, which on some records might take a couple of cleans pops should be rare if there is no damage. Your stylus shouldnt bring up anything either when playing.
Potential problems are a mix of poor machine, poor fluid, poor brushes,poor technique. Any one of or a mix can cause what you say...you may get the odd one now and then, but it should be rare and the stylus should be clean after playing.

[Audio Al]

Weatabix

in a dried bowl , you try and clean it and its like removing cement , Leave it 2 soak for 5 mins then it wipes off easy
Same with records , Grunge that been in the groove for 30 / 40 years needs time 2 soften and then you need the correct cleaning fluid
:)

[lovejoy]

Thanks guys,
Reassuring that things should be quiet following a good clean (and a good indicator that I'm just doing it wrong).
The Weetabix analogy certainly made me think. Although some of this is brand new vinyl I suspect the same is true for removing mould release agents etc. and I suspect that I'm just not giving the liquid enough time to work its magic. I also suspect I may be being a bit mean with the amount of fluid I'm applying.
I'll have another go over the weekend and report back.

[Macca]

I cleaned a 30 year-old record the other day that has already been cleaned once previously. I decided to do it again as it still had a few too many clicks and pops. I gave it a good going over on the Moth; didn't skimp on the jollop either.

Put it back on the TT: still the same clicks and pops.

I'm used to the Moth pretty much bringing up a record like new but not this time. I think Al might be right with his Weetabix analogy - need to soak the thing for a while first of all.

[aniki]

In my experience the only thing that really makes a difference is the type of fluid you use.
Over the winter I've typically had my windows closed so ambient dust is somewhat more prevalent.
I've found records I play frequently attracting more dust than usual so a fresh clean is needed to eliminate clicks and pops.
-
In the past some fluids I've used seem to just push the dust around and then dry in the grooves.
The result is a nice shiny record that sounds ten times worse than it did before!
-
Nowadays I even regularly clean brand new records that come out the shrink wrap looking smeary as hell!
-
Don't forget also that some carts / loadings will also highlight clicks and pops more than others. In my experience this is quite random and the quality or diamond profile doesn't really have a bearing on things; just the luck of the draw.
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To summarise, I don't think the cleaning technique has a huge effect but I would recommend experimenting with different cleaning fluids.

[Gazjam]

Thinking about Weetabix...

To users of "The Right One" record fluid, hoiw long do you let the solution soak before removing it?
I've been letting my RCM do two revolutions before removing it.

Enough time?
Paul S, could you pitch in on this?

Thanks. :)

[lovejoy]

I think the amount of time I've let a record soak in fluid started off being dictated by my Moth. I was always mindful that working on the first side of the record with the still soiled side being sat on top of the brush head of the Moth underneath and with it rotating was probably serving to just grind the crud further into the grooves, so 2-3 rotations was the max I'd allow for working the fluid in on the top side. I guess I don't have that issue doing the whole thing completely manually, so soak away!

[PaulStewart]

Hi All,

Generally I would leave a record for 10 to 15 seconds to let capillary action do its thing and let the fluid soften the crud. With bad soiling leave up to 30!seconds, after that, repeat the process a few times if necessary, normally one clean will do, if you use a good layer of fluid.


Thinking about Weetabix...

To users of "The Right One" record fluid, hoiw long do you let the solution soak before removing it?
I've been letting my RCM do two revolutions before removing it.

Enough time?
Paul S, could you pitch in on this?

Thanks. :)

[Gazjam]

Cheers Paul.

[karma67]

then take second brush which has been dipped in distilled water .

i think that may be your problem mate,perhaps your not using enough water to rinse,i generally rinse mine twice,i spray it on all over the record well.

[daytona600]

what disc doctor fluid are you using two types
miracle record cleaner - manual with brushes & rinse
quickwash - Manual or RCM & no need to rinse
Disc Doctor RCM Vacuum Tube Replacement Strips are same material as the miracle record brushes & fit to the RCM

Always give the record a 2nd clean myself just with distilled water on my Loricraft
then into freash anti static inners


http://www.discdoc.com/files/pamphlet.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8ZWY46mDTs

[lovejoy]

Thanks for all the tips so far guys. A bit late reporting back as I've been away for a week but have had chance to give it another go now. Things have improved a bit having increased the amount of cleaning fluid I'm applying (reading through the Disc Doctor instructions again it seems that I was being a bit overly frugal with the stuff - and assuming I knew what 3-4mm of liquid would look like, but I've now measured it out). Results are still not as I would like them though, so my next try will involve a double rinse...