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Snoopdog
03-11-2009, 10:34
I don't normally get annoyed but I felt I had to express my dissapointment at some new members who have joined this forum.

Twice recently, I have taken the time to answer questions posed by new members. One was a private message on 15/10/09 asking many questions about the Stillpoints equipment stand which required a detailed and lengthy response.

The other was an open question about the Conrad Johnson CA200 Control Amp which again I took the trouble to respond to with the requested information.

Neither of these members could be bothered to respond with even a simple 'Thanks'.

My point is, if you are going to sign up as a participant in an enthusiasts forum, then please take the time to enagage with the other members and don't forget common courtesy!

Spectral Morn
03-11-2009, 10:45
I don't normally get annoyed but I felt I had to express my dissapointment at some new members who have joined this forum.

Twice recently, I have taken the time to answer questions posed by new members. One was a private message on 15/10/09 asking many questions about the Stillpoints equipment stand which required a detailed and lengthy response.

The other was an open question about the Conrad Johnson CA200 Control Amp which again I took the trouble to respond to with the requested information.

Neither of these members could be bothered to respond with even a simple 'Thanks'.

My point is, if you are going to sign up as a participant in an enthusiasts forum, then please take the time to enagage with the other members and don't forget common courtesy!

Hi Steve

I agree with you it is frustrating when you respond to a question by leaving an in depth answer and then receive no thanks. However in one case, your first item you didn't, in the second (if I looked in the right place) I think you did.

However regardless you raise a good point. It would be the ideal that members who ask questions and get replies should say thanks...common decency.


Regards D S D L

Themis
03-11-2009, 10:55
I was rather shocked by this : http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4360

but, perhaps, my french/english polite ways of asking are a bit outdated...

hifi_dave
03-11-2009, 11:12
Unfortunately, this lack of consideration also applies to other forums where you rarely get a thank you. The most frustrating to me is the N*im forum, where I have lost count of the number of times that I have given a factual answer only to be ignored but then several posts later, one of the Forum favourites will post exactly the same answer and be showered with thanks.

Drives me nuts and I rarely post there anymore.:steam:

DSJR
03-11-2009, 11:30
But you don't worship the best turntable system in the world, do you????

Oh, and you don't have an expensive (to lease) double-fronted shop in Leicestershire either :D

alb
03-11-2009, 13:28
The most frustrating to me is the N*im forum, where I have lost count of the number of times that I have given a factual answer only to be ignored but then several posts later, one of the Forum favourites will post exactly the same answer and be showered with thanks.

I think that happens to everyone, from time to time. If you are just a casual forum user, you don't get taken seriously until one of the big boys confirms what you said. By which time your post is forgotten.

Best not to expect thanks for anything you do or say.

Mick Parry
03-11-2009, 16:05
Chaps

The internet is no place for shrinking violets who expect to be treated the same way as they would in the real world.

If you cannot accept that then best you leave to keep your blood pressure down.

Personally I could not care if I am loved or hated or ignored or whether I get thanked or not and that is why I am still around since the inception of Hifi fora and my blood pressure is still low.

I have to admit I have a laugh when some sad nerd sends me a pm whinging about how I have spoken to him on the forum. The message is simple, get a life and get real.

Regards

Mick

Themis
03-11-2009, 16:19
Are you trying to imply that Internet impersonation makes people (you included) schizophrenic ?

If not, which is the real character ? The polite (IRL) or the other one (forum) ?

I don't consider that Internet is not IRL, I always end up meeting my forum friends. :D

Mick Parry
03-11-2009, 16:51
Dimitri

I use my real name and I am the same here as in real life. The bastards you can't trust are those who use false names with something to hide.

I suspect many big hard tough guys here are hen pecked snivelling little men in real life.

Some are genuine and some are fake, that is the reality of internet persona.

Regards

Mick

Spectral Morn
03-11-2009, 17:23
Chaps

The internet is no place for shrinking violets who expect to be treated the same way as they would in the real world.

If you cannot accept that then best you leave to keep your blood pressure down.

Personally I could not care if I am loved or hated or ignored or whether I get thanked or not and that is why I am still around since the inception of Hifi fora and my blood pressure is still low.

I have to admit I have a laugh when some sad nerd sends me a pm whinging about how I have spoken to him on the forum. The message is simple, get a life and get real.

Regards

Mick


Mick the Art of Sound as a forum attempts to be different to other forums and being courteous/friendly etc is part of what makes it better than other places. However it does go wrong every so often, sadly we then have to step in.


Regards D S D L

Mick Parry
03-11-2009, 17:42
Neil

Neither you, Marco, Steven or even the Gods can stop fully grown men acting like little petulant brats, being oh so full of themselves and demanding apologies and stamping their feet when they dont get their way.

Either you tolerate them or you ban them, I favour the banning, lets keep this forum restricted to those of us who are genuinely nice and kick the trouble makers off into oblivion.

Regards

Mick

Rare Bird
03-11-2009, 17:49
A good hifi fora is a place where men aint comparing dick sizes.Who gives a shit if someones hifi is more flashy than another eh? Seems to be a lot on here with old stuff & down to earth which attracts me.

Joe
03-11-2009, 19:31
Some are genuine and some are fake, that is the reality of internet persona.

I'm a genuine fake.

Marco
03-11-2009, 20:05
I always had you down as more of a 'special case' ;)

Marco.

sburrell
05-11-2009, 02:29
Either you tolerate them or you ban them[.] [L]ets keep this forum restricted to those of us who are genuinely nice.
The third option, of course, is to set them straight. Frankly, no-one who claims to be "genuinely nice" should ignore the fact that it is/was because of the tolerance and education of others that we become/became that way.
*starts to ramble* I'm just out of my 20s, and even I think that we've gone the wrong way by banning corporal punishment, whether it be in the Courts or in the home. The way I've come to see it is, I'd rather receive 20 lashes in the public square and be done (and hopefully learn my lesson), than lose 5 years of my life in a prison cell. The things that can happen to you in prison amount to the same thing and worse anyway, IMO, and physical scars are far more tolerable than mental ones. I'm beginning to wonder if prison isn't altogether too cruel…
Obviously, in a forum like this, it's a tongue-lashing you'll get, but it's better than nothing. :)

The Grand Wazoo
05-11-2009, 08:32
I can't believe a like post this has gone so long without being challenged.


Either you tolerate them or you ban them, I favour the banning, lets keep this forum restricted to those of us who are genuinely nice and kick the trouble makers off into oblivion.

So, Mr Parry, if I understand you correctly, your idea of a 'genuinely nice person' is one who doesn't care if they are insulted in a public place. And a 'trouble maker' is someone who asks for an apology when they perceive some sort of wrong has been done towards them. You would ban the trouble makers and restrict the forum to those who are happy to spend their time ignoring the accepted conventions of decent behaviour to others.

Well, if that's the case, I'd get right to it and start your own forum. See how many members you attract.

If you don't want to do that, then perhaps you should consider recognising and following the standards expected by the owners of the forum of which you are a guest.

See here for further information - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17

Rare Bird
05-11-2009, 12:11
Chris i see you as a potential trouble. Not being nasty i just see it, your probably unawares of this..

Steve Toy
05-11-2009, 12:27
Chris has been here a long time. He is not a trouble maker by any means.

Sometimes complaints are justifiably upheld, sometimes not.

We manage this place with the objective of avoiding the rough and tumble found on many other message boards.

Apart from the odd glitch we are succeeding.

Rare Bird
05-11-2009, 12:35
Chris has been here a long time. He is not a trouble maker by any means.

Sometimes complaints are justifiably upheld, sometimes not.

We manage this place with the objective of avoiding the rough and tumble found on many other message boards.

Apart from the odd glitch we are succeeding.

Not refering to a direct trouble maker but has an habbit of being sarcastic & belittling.I find offensive, hands up i aint had the best track record on forums but i'm generally oki doki till someone comes along giving it.Yes an olive branch was offered regarding the last tiff but i declined due to the fact i knew it would happen again pretty soon.

twelvebears
05-11-2009, 12:56
I'm a genuine fake.

Whereas I'm genuinely flaky. :)

Marco
05-11-2009, 13:07
Not refering to a direct trouble maker but has an habbit of being sarcastic & belittling.I find offensive, hands up i aint had the best track record on forums but i'm generally oki doki till someone comes along giving it.Yes an olive branch was offered regarding the last tiff but i declined due to the fact i knew it would happen again pretty soon.

Andre,

Chris is Chris and you are you. It is inevitable that there will be some personality clashes in any community, in real life and on-line - and AoS is no different. We like people to be themselves here as much as possible.

As long as both of you can manage your differences and not seek to 'niggle' each other at every opportunity (not that this is happening), there will be no problem.

However, I would say that the gentlemanly thing is always to accept an apology (when offered) in the spirit it was intended. Knowing Chris rather well, I can assure you that his offer of apology was well-meant and in no way disingenuous :)

Marco.

The Grand Wazoo
05-11-2009, 14:52
I didn't want to comment on this thread because I don't like argueing or any other sort of trouble. I hoped someone else would address the comments I thought were unreasonable. After two days, though I just felt something had to be said - we shouldn't allow statements like that go unchallenged, otherwise we are in danger of being accused of agreeing with them.

I like to choose my words carefully and I will not throw insults around even with extreme provocation. However, if I offend someone, I will apologise whether that offence was intended or not. Equally, I expect to be apologised to when I've been treated badly. Because most people are reasonable & recognise offence when they've caused it, I've only ever felt the need to ask an adult for an apology twice in my entire life. Both of those times have been on AoS. Both times I have offered an apology to the other person first. Both times my request has been refused.

If that makes me a troublemaker then we're all doomed.

symon
05-11-2009, 15:58
So, the troublemaker is the one who offered the olive branch to end the trouble? And the one who refused the olive branch isn't a troublemaker?

:scratch::doh:

Spectral Morn
05-11-2009, 16:09
Lets be careful how we proceed from this point onwards...please.



Regards D S D L

The Grand Wazoo
05-11-2009, 16:24
I'm done Neil.
As I say, I didn't want to comment. And despite Mr Parry's comments being a somewhat barely veiled attack at me, I initially resisted the urge to reply, because I thought someone else might pick up on the general bad flavour of that post.

Subject over for me.
But if necessary, in future I will make comment on what I believe to be aggressive, unfair, arrogant or rude.

Spectral Morn
05-11-2009, 16:30
I'm done Neil.
As I say, I didn't want to comment. And despite Mr Parry's comments being a somewhat barely veiled attack at me, I initially resisted the urge to reply, because I thought someone else might pick up on the general bad flavour of that post.

Subject over for me.
But if necessary, in future I will make comment on what I believe to be aggressive, unfair, arrogant or rude.


Hi Chris

Re the bit in bold...Yes absolutely.

Re my bit about " being careful" that wasn't aimed at you, but any others who might want to way in with further comments.


Regards D S D L

anthonyTD
05-11-2009, 17:15
The third option, of course, is to set them straight. Frankly, no-one who claims to be "genuinely nice" should ignore the fact that it is/was because of the tolerance and education of others that we become/became that way.
*starts to ramble* I'm just out of my 20s, and even I think that we've gone the wrong way by banning corporal punishment, whether it be in the Courts or in the home. The way I've come to see it is, I'd rather receive 20 lashes in the public square and be done (and hopefully learn my lesson), than lose 5 years of my life in a prison cell. The things that can happen to you in prison amount to the same thing and worse anyway, IMO, and physical scars are far more tolerable than mental ones. I'm beginning to wonder if prison isn't altogether too cruel…
Obviously, in a forum like this, it's a tongue-lashing you'll get, but it's better than nothing. :)
hi simon,
i find your opinions on this matter both refreshing and thought provoking, and not at all what i would expect from such a youngster! there is hope after all!:lolsign:
A...

Rare Bird
05-11-2009, 17:59
Maybe Simon could give us all a cure for the muppetts that are running our postal service?

Joe
05-11-2009, 18:19
Obviously, in a forum like this, it's a tongue-lashing you'll get, but it's better than nothing. :)

Some people would pay good money for one of those!

Marco
05-11-2009, 20:29
Especially if there's a nice curl on the end with a stud in it ;)

Marco.

Rare Bird
05-11-2009, 21:03
Especially if there's a nice curl on the end with a stud in it ;)

Marco.
All great till it slips under the tongue :(

Clive
05-11-2009, 22:02
All great till it slips under the tongue :(
Something one should be circumspect about.....

Cotlake
05-11-2009, 22:37
Hmmm, well while we are all being lovy dovy, it might be good to get back to some reality and foundation. There is a code of conduct clearly expected on this forum. Andre has contributed to this thread, once again having a go at Chris albeit in an non-offensive but never the less abrasive way.

In another thread he was outwardly abusive and offensive in controvention of the code of conduct and the moderators did nothing to check that. I chose to ignore the ignorant offensive comments directed at me at the time and even made light of it in another thread. However, now the topic is being discussed in this thread, I feel extremely irritated. Andre clearly breached the code and was totally out of order. No moderator has publically (his offences were publically expressed) done anything to challenge that bad behaviour. Why?

A while back I got moderator challenged simply because I questioned another members ears. Andre has insulted me and Chris by suggesting I'm 'stuck up Chris' bum' and 'I stuck my nose in' and nothing has been done. Why has no challenge been made to Andre's unacceptable behaviour?

Come on admin. You need to get your act together. I know you are spread far and wide and probably only linked through the forum/email but you really do need to get some consistancy regarding your management application of your policies.

Regards,

Greg

Marco
05-11-2009, 23:27
Hi Greg,

Is it really worth raking over old coals? Like I said, it's inevitable that in all communities there will be personality clashes and occasional fall-outs between people.

I think that the best policy is to learn to put up with each others 'quirks', providing that things don't stray into genuine unpleasantness. You're after all a bit of a character yourself - don't take that in a bad way though because I enjoy your contributions! :)

However, for the record, I would say that Andre was out of order when making that remark aimed at Chris and you, and that he should gracefully accept Chris' earlier apology (and perhaps also offer him and you one in return).

The ball's in Andre's court though as far as that's concerned. I can't force people to do something they don't want to do, if that is in fact the case. Personally, I think that it's best to move on and not blow the situation out of proportion.

Marco.

Rare Bird
06-11-2009, 14:31
Ok this is gonna be the end of it.

Greg: If you knew half the ding Dongs me & Marco have had you'd cringe, but i don't see marco binding on about it! At the end of the day greg you stuck your hooter in on a tiff that had absolutly nothing to do with you..The term stuck up his arse' was clearly due to the fact you broke a responce down into so many quote in favour of chris, i found it strange.

Chris: This is an open appology that i'd like you to accept.

Greg: You need to keep you nose out of buisness that doesnt concern you, you'll never get an appology from me.

So that hopefully this is an end of that, if Chris opts to turn down the appology it's totally upto him but i've offered it.

Mick Parry
06-11-2009, 16:47
Chaps

If you really feel the need to ask for an apology for something that was said about you on a forum then you are too sensitive for your own good.

I have lost count of the number of times someone has questioned the validity of my parents state of wedlock, you look at it, smile or mutter and then move on.

The sight of a grown man bellyaching that he deserves an apology is vomit inducing.

A certain man who is a mod on this forum once threatened to rip off my head and urinate down the resultant hole when I suggested that Mana was ugly. I merely responded by wishing the clap upon him and overall no harm was done and neither of us spent any time sobbing our eyes out in the corner of a room. We now exchange views with each other and the incident is widely forgotten.

There are passionate people on forums (the passion is what brings them here) and disagreements and spats will sometimes occur, just learn to live with it.

Regards

Mick

PS .. Marco, I hope the penicillin did the trick

Rare Bird
06-11-2009, 16:57
Once was a time not that long ago if someone gave me shit on a fora the baloon would go up in such a way the board members ran for cover, i've learned to control these outburst with out a shrink..Me giving out an appology is a very first for me.

btw: Mana looks loike a pile of scrap metal to me

:lol:

Themis
06-11-2009, 17:07
The sight of a grown man bellyaching that he deserves an apology is vomit inducing.
I don't see why. Can you please explain why ?

Rare Bird
06-11-2009, 17:09
It's easy Dimitri..School girl's blouses moan like that..

Themis
06-11-2009, 17:21
Yes, Andre. But this is not a rule : it's looks more like a post-traumatic stress reaction of some kind... Surely there's another (more plausible) explanation ?

Rare Bird
06-11-2009, 17:23
Not really i get the same feeling

:lolsign:

Themis
06-11-2009, 17:30
:scratch: I propose two pounds of nuance and a teaspoon of introspection... :lolsign:

Clive
06-11-2009, 19:40
Ok this is gonna be the end of it.

Greg: If you knew half the ding Dongs me & Marco have had you'd cringe, but i don't see marco binding on about it! At the end of the day greg you stuck your hooter in on a tiff that had absolutly nothing to do with you..The term stuck up his arse' was clearly due to the fact you broke a responce down into so many quote in favour of chris, i found it strange.

Chris: This is an open appology that i'd like you to accept.

Greg: You need to keep you nose out of buisness that doesnt concern you, you'll never get an appology from me.

So that hopefully this is an end of that, if Chris opts to turn down the appology it's totally upto him but i've offered it.
Andre, you say "this is gonna be the end of it" then lob hand grenades to ensure this is not going to be the end of it. I can see why you get into hassles on forums.

Rare Bird
06-11-2009, 20:08
Andre, you say "this is gonna be the end of it" then lob hand grenades to ensure this is not going to be the end of it. I can see why you get into hassles on forums.

What ever..The last two remarks were not aimed at Chris so i really don't know where your going!

Clive
06-11-2009, 20:26
What ever..The last two remarks were not aimed at Chris so i really don't know where your going!
Why on earth do you think that because you said it'll be the end of it that this will come to pass? Are you God or superior to him?

Rare Bird
06-11-2009, 20:50
Are you God

much obliged

:lolsign:

Joe
06-11-2009, 21:06
btw: Mana looks loike a pile of scrap metal to me

:lol:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=1443918726

Beechwoods
06-11-2009, 22:00
:lol: classic Mighty Boosh!

Cotlake
06-11-2009, 22:48
Is it really worth raking over old coals?

Hi Marco,

This is nothing about raking over old coals. it's all about you guys getting some consistancy into your moderating policy and then your controlling procedure. What I am highlighting is that moderators fail to apply an even and consistant standard. Surely you all need to apply your moderation in accordance with the code of conduct applied to this forum. At the moment, moderators are not applying a collective approach. That is bad and inconsistant practice and my appeal is that you get it resolved. No bad feeling. I simply expect you and your moderators to address this properly for the good health of the forum. Neil has PM'd me on the topic and from what he has said it is clear all your mods don't appear to be working from the same foundation and are not applying policy in accordance with your mission statement. I'm trying to help here. Clearly, if you are all signed up and coming from the same direction, that would be good for all forum members so they know what the rules and limitations are. As said, I got challenged by Steve because he took my questioning of another members 'ears' as offensive yet Andre can post that I am up Chris' bum which brought no moderator challenge. Where is the consistancy there? This is not about the individual spat but much more about you and your mods making this forum continue constructively. I'm not wanting to be obstruction but rather to help you think these things through so AoS continues with respectful credibility.

Regards,

Greg

Spectral Morn
06-11-2009, 23:14
Hi Marco,

This is nothing about raking over old coals. it's all about you guys getting some consistancy into your moderating policy and then your controlling procedure. What I am highlighting is that moderators fail to apply an even and consistant standard. Surely you all need to apply your moderation in accordance with the code of conduct applied to this forum. At the moment, moderators are not applying a collective approach. That is bad and inconsistant practice and my appeal is that you get it resolved. No bad feeling. I simply expect you and your moderators to address this properly for the good health of the forum. Neil has PM'd me on the topic and from what he has said it is clear all your mods don't appear to be working from the same foundation and are not applying policy in accordance with your mission statement. I'm trying to help here. Clearly, if you are all signed up and coming from the same direction, that would be good for all forum members so they know what the rules and limitations are. As said, I got challenged by Steve because he took my questioning of another members 'ears' as offensive yet Andre can post that I am up Chris' bum which brought no moderator challenge. Where is the consistancy there? This is not about the individual spat but much more about you and your mods making this forum continue constructively. I'm not wanting to be obstruction but rather to help you think these things through so AoS continues with respectful credibility.

Regards,

Greg


Greg

Firstly that is not what I said.

Secondly it is bad manners to mention any element of a private PM in the open with out permission...something I did not give. One would normally expect a PM to be responded to via another PM ....finally back to the topic of the thread...the decline of good manners,


Regards D S D L

Cotlake
06-11-2009, 23:27
Greg: If you knew half the ding Dongs me & Marco have had you'd cringe, but i don't see marco binding on about it! At the end of the day greg you stuck your hooter in on a tiff that had absolutly nothing to do with you..The term stuck up his arse' was clearly due to the fact you broke a responce down into so many quote in favour of chris, i found it strange.

Greg: You need to keep you nose out of buisness that doesnt concern you, you'll never get an appology from me.

Andre, you need a reality check. Please do not accuse me of sticking my nose into business which is not mine when you choose to share your business publically on a forum where all members have a right to express their opinions. If you didn't want a public response you should have dealt by PM or email. I struggle to comprehend your naivety on this.

Regarding the 'break down' of your message into quotes, recognise it was a response to what you had said. Absolutely nothing to do with Chris.

Please note, I have never and will never expect an apology from you. In anycase, all the indications are that you don't possess that kind of reasonable decorum.

Regards,

Greg

Rare Bird
06-11-2009, 23:57
Greg at the end of the day what it is with you is it '' i've had my knuckles wraped so every one else has to ''..Grow up for god sake man..Babies carry of like this.

Unawares to you myself & Chris are perfectly fine now, so stick a cork in it please.

I think the best thing to do here is lock this topic or would that be trying to tell mods how to run the place!

Cotlake
07-11-2009, 00:13
Firstly that is not what I said.

Secondly it is bad manners to mention any element of a private PM in the open with out permission...something I did not give. One would normally expect a PM to be responded to via another PM ....finally back to the topic of the thread...the decline of good manners,


Regards D S D L

Hi Neil,

Get real and understand what I have said. My text never included anything you had written in your PM to me. I didn't quote anything, so your 'not what I said' statement is nonsence. I've simply expressed my opinion on the state of AoS moderation, and what you have said in a PM has contibuted to that. Nothing in my latest post included anything specifically referenced to what you have written to me. There are no bad manners here and absolutely no breaches of PM confidenciality.

In consequence of all this stuff, I seriously wonder about your competance to be a moderator. What do you think?

Marco
07-11-2009, 01:18
Hi Greg,

Trust me, I do realise that you're trying to be helpful. I agree with some of the points you've raised, which have been noted :)


As said, I got challenged by Steve because he took my questioning of another members 'ears' as offensive yet Andre can post that I am up Chris' bum which brought no moderator challenge. Where is the consistancy there?


I was away when the above remark was made, so had no part in any moderating decisions that did or didn't take place. We're all human though and make mistakes - hopefully we will learn from any that were made.

As for all mods and admin singing from the same hymn sheet, as it were, we generally do, but that's much easier done when there is a strict AUP to follow than when there is a more 'organic', less rigid, procedure in place such as our ethos.

We believe that an ethos policy suits the dynamic of AoS much more than a rigid set of rules, as outlined in an AUP. This means that we rely on the individual assessment of the particular moderator or member of admin who's dealing with a given situation to be accurate and ensure the best outcome. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, as there's always a margin for error. I'm afraid that's the nature of the beast.

It's the compromise we choose to facilitate what we feel is the best way of ensuring the smooth running of the forum. However nothing is perfect and we will learn from this experience and use it to our advantage in future.

I am now locking the thread, as it's run its course, and to prevent any further circular debate. Thanks to all who contributed - rest assured that all points raised have duly been noted :cool:

Marco.