View Full Version : Adam Johnson case... Is it just me?
Arkless Electronics
03-03-2016, 15:15
.... that's thinking a likely 5 - 10 years prison grossly excessive for merely "inappropriate contact" with a lass who would have been at the legal age of consent anyway a few months later, was "up for it" and admitted "fancying the pants off him"? FFS he wouldn't do more than that for armed robbery or manslaughter :eek:
It's not like he raped a 12 year old, in which case he would deserve that sentence and more! She was a willing participant, and don't tell me that a few months later, at the stroke of midnight on her birthday, she would miraculously have totally changed into a grown women who was perfectly capable of making responsible decisions on such matters....
One wonders even if maybe upon her star struck mind realising he wasn't serious about her, wasn't going to leave his girlfriend for her etc she decided to destroy him... the "power" of even as a "nobody" being able to destroy this millionaire famous ex England player maybe??
That he is an idiot, immature, treated his girlfriend (and mother of his baby) terribly is not in dispute... christ he's even a mackem! But 10 years for maybe touching the breasticles of a lass who was it seems "up for it" anyway....
:sofa:
walpurgis
03-03-2016, 15:26
Are you a glutton for punishment Jez? The self righteous will likely give you a bashing now. :eek:
It won't be 5-10 years, just a lengthy sentence. To a guy like Johnson, a year could be regarded as 'lengthy'.
Arkless Electronics
03-03-2016, 15:49
Are you a glutton for punishment Jez? The self righteous will likely give you a bashing now. :eek:
It needed saying IMHO.... There has been a hysteria in the country for the last 20 years or so, and of course far more so since Saville, which has been caused purely by the tabloid press wanting to sell papers for profit! Now obviously nobody would defend the scum which are paedophiles, but it's got so silly these days that someone caught pinching the bum of a lass considerably younger than themselves (but over 16) is regarded as worse than a serial killer! As you have pointed out yourself, this hysteria and witch hunt has become so extreme that it is now dangerous to even discuss the issue.... unless you call for a minimum of the death penalty for anyone found merely giving a 15 year old a friendly peck on the cheek you are on dangerous ground!!
Arkless Electronics
03-03-2016, 15:52
Do you have kids Jez?
I was wondering how long it would be before someone asked that.... No, but it's irrelevant. I'm not black either but can still condemn the KKK!
Arkless Electronics
03-03-2016, 15:53
It won't be 5-10 years, just a lengthy sentence. To a guy like Johnson, a year could be regarded as 'lengthy'.
He has been told to expect 5 - 10 years according to BBC news.
He actively groomed her for this. He is much older than her, who as you say was starstruck. Im not a reactionary demanding blood for anyone merely pinching bums.. He deserves all he gets, and the biggest victim is probably his ex and his newborn son. The girl should have had more sense is true, and he didnt rape her, so thats in his favour but thats about all.
I wont say more but if he gets 5 years then imo he deserves it.
I agree with Jez on balance. Bloke knew he was out of order but carried on anyway. Deserves to be punished. But 5 years in prison is completely over the top considering what actually happened, which wasn't much.
Arkless Electronics
03-03-2016, 16:33
He actively groomed her for this. He is much older than her, who as you say was starstruck. Im not a reactionary demanding blood for anyone merely pinching bums.. He deserves all he gets, and the biggest victim is probably his ex and his newborn son. The girl should have had more sense is true, and he didnt rape her, so thats in his favour but thats about all.
I wont say more but if he gets 5 years then imo he deserves it.
I fully agree that the biggest victims are his ex and newborn son. But... maybe 3 months later it would apparently have been all OK... in the eyes of the law anyway... at the time she was over the moon at having "pulled" a premiership star and had boasted to her friends about it!
People who mug pensioners would be unlucky to get 5 years! He will be lucky to get a job stacking shelves when he comes out... and could have been England's next Bobby Moore for all we know.... IMHO 3 months would be more appropriate.
walpurgis
03-03-2016, 16:33
When I was in my teens, you were considered a bit odd if you weren't bonking your invariably younger (and some below the age of consent) girlfriend. It was undoubtedly frowned upon, but that was all. You'd get a life sentence now.
Doubt he will get more than 30 months, and most of the time will be locked up til he goes to an open prison. Will be out on parole in no time. Examples need to be made and hes been voted.
I know what damage this CAN do ....as a dad of a teenage girl once who had lots of young voluptuous friends round to stay etc and seeing them half bloody naked on occasion, you have to make yourself behave, or suffer the consequences
Arkless Electronics
03-03-2016, 16:45
When I was in my teens, you were considered a bit odd if you weren't bonking your invariably younger (and some below the age of consent) girlfriend. It was undoubtedly frowned upon, but that was all. You'd get a life sentence now.
Indeed! I well recall a close one myself and a mate had once in a Durham village we had not visited before... we'd gone to check out either a motorbike or some hi fi that was for sale, we were both about 26 at the time. We stopped off at a local pub on the way back and found it quite lively... A couple of very attractive girls came over and basically started chatting us up (ah them were the days :wheniwasaboy:). During the conversation they mentioned being 18... Well they got up and went to the lav together, as lasses do, and whilst they were away a local came over and basically said "a word to the wise lads, those two little minxes do this all the time but they are only 15"... well we finished our drinks and left to cut a long story short...
In this case though he knew she was under age and carried on regardless
sq225917
03-03-2016, 16:54
If he knew she was underage then no ifs, no buts he should do a good stretch and be on the register once he gets out.
Shagging some lass who you just met who looks eighteen but is a few month under 16, when you didn't know, isn't the same as this shit at all.
He groomed her, he's a predator, end of story.
StanleyB
03-03-2016, 16:55
He actively groomed her for this. He is much older than her, who as you say was starstruck.
"Much older" is a relative term in this case. A one time neighbour of mine, who was still in her teens, married someone at least twice her age. Now that is what I call much older. But I agree with you on the rest. I would even add that given the fact that he already had a quite good looking girlfriend, and mother of his child, one would have expected a lot more sense from him. When you are a professional footballer, you can bet your life on it that the press is not far away looking for a story.
That's not how the law sees it though Simon. In this case there wasn't any sex but I don't think you can have sex with a minor and use 'I didn't realise she was a minor' as a defence.
Arkless Electronics
03-03-2016, 17:06
If I understand it correctly, he stopped it when he finally realised what a plonker he was being and where it was likely to go next... she then, upon being "dumped" as she probably saw it, decided to get revenge by going public.
Audio Advent
03-03-2016, 17:22
.... that's thinking a likely 5 - 10 years prison grossly excessive for merely "inappropriate contact" with a lass who would have been at the legal age of consent anyway a few months later, was "up for it" and admitted "fancying the pants off him"? FFS he wouldn't do more than that for armed robbery or manslaughter :eek:
I'm listening to the news now and it says he is awaiting sentencing. Where is the 5 - 10 year figure from?
jandl100
03-03-2016, 17:27
I'm with Jez, given the circumstances.
I had very similar thoughts on the issue.
A custodial sentence is way OTT, imo.
Community service would be appropriate, I think. ... with a suspended sentence of a year or so.
Audio Advent
03-03-2016, 17:29
Do you have kids Jez?
IMO opinion, judges and the law are there to protect against this kind of over-emotive reasoning behind sentencing, assuming that's what you're getting at rather than a simple, unloaded question about his family life which you've mistakenly chosen to ask in this thread..
It is more akin to the mindset of a vigilante mob rather than a civilised society's sense of responsible justice.
There is more reasoning behind making an example of someone in a position of power and influence (such as a rich footballer with a publicly "glamourous" image) however.
Definitely he's a predator. He used to live in Alderley Edge. I am aware of just a couple of the girls who visited his house and stayed overnight. Iceberg and tip come to mind.
I agree with Jez and Martin - 2 year suspended at the very most. It's inconsistent sentencing for publicity. If the public knew what some active live abuse sex offenders get on a daily basis, they would be outraged. He also shot himself in the foot with his plea.
If the courts want to hand out sentences like this then great, I'm all for it, but be consistent.
Audio Advent
03-03-2016, 17:37
He groomed her, he's a predator, end of story.
That's what it's been called, "grooming". From the details I've heard on the news, he flirted with her on Whatsapp. Is that grooming?
If I flirt with someone on whatsapp am I controlling them and subverting the situation to get what I want, possibly using psychological tricks to make them subservient to my demands?
I guess you can call it that if that's your stance on flirting as a whole! But should the act and presumed thinking behind someone's flirting be considered different just because of someone's age? In that case ANY teen flirting with another teen will be grooming each other. And indeed in some US states kids are being prosecuted for exactly that with a minor despite them being the same age..
Perhaps there are finer details to the Whatsapp communications that I've not read or head about.. it's not exactly a major story for me to be intrested in (much more pressing things going on in the world).
Audio Advent
03-03-2016, 17:39
Definitely he's a predator. He used to live in Alderley Edge. I am aware of just a couple of the girls who visited his house and stayed overnight. Iceberg and tip come to mind.
Which is where those in court will have a better idea of the situation than pundits at home reading scant details in the news papers. There will no doubt been an attempt to give context to this. I get the impression today that he changed pleas to guilty at some point.. that could be a way to cover up other relevent things, have people refrain from delving too deeply.
One has to trust the courts to some extent on sentencing.
I agree with Jez and Macca. There has to be some distinction between this guy and the Jimmy Savilles of this world.
I find some of the responses here to be frightening tbh... I really do.... :(
Arkless Electronics
03-03-2016, 17:51
I'm listening to the news now and it says he is awaiting sentencing. Where is the 5 - 10 year figure from?
He is on bail awaiting sentence but has been told in court to expect a sentence in this range.
Arkless Electronics
03-03-2016, 18:02
That's what it's been called, "grooming". From the details I've heard on the news, he flirted with her on Whatsapp. Is that grooming?
If I flirt with someone on whatsapp am I controlling them and subverting the situation to get what I want, possibly using psychological tricks to make them subservient to my demands?
I guess you can call it that if that's your stance on flirting as a whole! But should the act and presumed thinking behind someone's flirting be considered different just because of someone's age? In that case ANY teen flirting with another teen will be grooming each other. And indeed in some US states kids are being prosecuted for exactly that with a minor despite them being the same age..
Perhaps there are finer details to the Whatsapp communications that I've not read or head about.. it's not exactly a major story for me to be intrested in (much more pressing things going on in the world).
I was about to make the same comment.... "chatting up" "flirting".. but because she was a few months too young it's called "grooming" now.
Just saw a news report that the ex owner of Liverpool FC has had the crap kicked out of him by burglars, leaving him seriously injured.. if they catch the twats they'll probably do less time than Johnson gets for groping a lass (who was up for it at the time) but stopping the whole sorry affair when he eventually realised how out of order he was being... and before it progressed to sex...
If I understand it correctly, he stopped it when he finally realised what a plonker he was being and where it was likely to go next... she then, upon being "dumped" as she probably saw it, decided to get revenge by going public.
I read she bragged to her mates she had pulled a footballer. It got all round the school, she was being called a slag etc and couldn't cope so she confessed to her parents.
If you read the texts he comes across as being shockingky immature for his age. I suppose if you become wealthy as a youth yoou don't have to grow up. The texts are like one 15 year old to another.
Apparantly he said to his guard during the trial 'i hope this doesn't drag on much longer it is getting a bit boring now.'
Which suggests to me that he might actally be a bit simple.
Audio Advent
03-03-2016, 18:05
I find some of the responses here to be frightening tbh... I really do.... :(
In which direction? Too lenient or too hard?
That's all part of democracy! Our own views of the world have no real truth to them other than to yourself.
Just have to make sure that people's views aren't imposed only because they shout loudest, that's all. Politically though, those shouting loudest seem to be the ones getting their way at the moment, intelligent reasoning and argument based on verifiable facts or at least very strong probability seem to be out the window. Perhaps it's always been that way?
Audio Advent
03-03-2016, 18:13
I read she bragged to her mates she had pulled a footballer.
That can also be seen as being part of the abuse of power and influence over someone of immature age and that someone in his position must, as society demands (courts supposedly dishing out the will of society - haha!), not abuse this position, especially for sexual gain.
And so.. this bit on it's own can be the psychological control part of grooming and end up being a major part of sentencing decisions.
As you can see, I can see it both ways to a degree. Mainly because I (we?) don't know the full details. Nor does the court to be honest - what's his real intention was, her part in it - it has to use reason to work it out between opposing accounts.
twickers
03-03-2016, 18:19
Adam Johnson is a fucking idiot. Like a lot of footballers he's distanced himself from reality until the penny's finally dropped. What did he think was going to happen? nobody was going to find out?
But 5-10 years (as being mooted) does seem excessive.
Simple lol, well they didn't get that good just playing weekends.
Might have been handy for him if he'd had a couple of Peers, a high court judge and a cabinet minister or two as friends, oh and a high ranking peeler, worked for plenty others before ;)
Wakefield Turntables
03-03-2016, 19:09
I've deleted my post. I'd prefer to discuss audio and frankly find this subject completely inappropiate. :sucks:
but because she was a few months too young ...
Surely this is the whole point here. She was underage.
As I rarely watch the news or read papers (as most of it is full of bullshit), could someone tell me who Adan Johnson is?
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
03-03-2016, 19:47
As I don't watch the news or read papers, could someone tell me who Adan Johnson is?
Marco.
He attempted to have sex with a child.
Audio Advent
03-03-2016, 19:48
Surely this is the whole point here. She was underage.
So a technicality? Being so black and white with rules especially with dates or age reduces such points to technicalities.
So if she were 16 and a day then it might be simply frowned upon morally but if she were 15 years, 11 months and 30 days old there should be severe punishment given?
Whilst that may well be the only guidline the court and laws can go by (I'm not sure of that..) it is certainly not "the whole point here" . People should be punished for their acts due to the effects on society, individuals and the wider consequences of not punishing them. I don't believe people should be punished on pure technical grounds as you appear to be advocating or reducing this to - afterall it's an open discussion here.
He attempted to have sex with a child.
Pond life, then.
Marco.
twickers
03-03-2016, 19:49
As I don't watch the news or read papers, could someone tell me who Adan Johnson is?
Marco.
I reckon it's Adam Johnson the footy player.
Audio Advent
03-03-2016, 19:49
As I don't watch the news or read papers, could someone tell me who Adan Johnson is?
Marco.
A-ha! I wondered if that original typo would catch someone out.
Adam Johnson, some boring and unimportant footballer.
Oh right. Never heard of him.
Marco.
twickers
03-03-2016, 19:58
Adam Johnson is a fucking idiot. Like a lot of footballers he's distanced himself from reality until the penny's finally dropped. What did he think was going to happen? nobody was going to find out?
But 5-10 years (as being mooted) does seem excessive.
Oh right. Never heard of him.
Marco.
That didn't give it away then? ;)
I think the main bit was that he planned it. and thats the big difference between an accidental encounter and what happened... he had a lovely girlfiend expecting his child, but went out of his way to get a young girl, probably still in school.
I am surprised that folk here are taking the position they are and feel he is being hard done by. If it were your daughter would you all be so forgiving?
Audio Advent
03-03-2016, 20:00
He attempted to have sex with a child.
Just out of curiosity, if she had been 16 - still a child in many people's eyes - e.g. this happened in say October of the year instead of June (so passed her 16th birthday for argument's sake), and so there would likely be no legal consequence, consentual act etc then would you still reduce the situation as such?
It really is just out of curiousity - I'm not going to challenge your answer. Kind of also a question to Marco with his response to your post (which could have been understood to be a child of any age ).
Arkless Electronics
03-03-2016, 20:07
I've deleted my post. I'd prefer to discuss audio and frankly find this subject completely inappropiate. :sucks:
Precisely the kind of attitude that led me to tentatively start this thread! Such hysteria and witch-hunt mentality surrounds any sort of perceived "sex crime" these days that it's almost a crime to suggest that anyone accused of it may actually be innocent!! If they are in fact guilty then, even if they have merely pinched a women's bottom, it is very dangerous to suggest that the appropriate punishment should be anything less than being hanged, drawn and quartered :eek:
In this particular case, even though the lass was running round boasting that she'd pulled a footballer, she is now described as "the victim" in all press coverage, whilst he faces 5 to 10....
In the case of genuine kiddy fiddling paedophiles then obviously they are abhorrent and should do a VERY long stretch...life for the worst cases... but.. they are spoken about these days as if worse than Brady and Hindley or The Yorkshire Ripper. Their victims didn't survive their ordeal...
That all this hysteria has stemmed from tabloid papers stirring up "righteous indignation" purely to boost their own profits.... is sick IMHO. Nervous parents often won't let their kids out to play as we used to do in our day for paranoia that there is a paedophile hiding behind every tree! We used to go off in the woods all day making swings over the beck etc and not come home for 6 hours, no mobile phones then either of course, and had great fun. I'll bet not many youngsters are allowed to today...
Audio Advent
03-03-2016, 20:28
I think the main bit was that he planned it. and thats the big difference between an accidental encounter and what happened... he had a lovely girlfiend expecting his child, but went out of his way to get a young girl, probably still in school.
I am surprised that folk here are taking the position they are and feel he is being hard done by. If it were your daughter would you all be so forgiving?
I don't think I've read any post suggesting he's been hard done by particularly.
Unless you're saying that 5-10 years is good by your standards and anyone saying it would be over the top (given the info we have) is somehow morally wrong? That is why, hopefully, the courts and justice system do not deal in emotive, vigilante-style punishment. It is dealt out by rational thought and guidlines (for attempted consitency). To use emotion as your guide for punishment is exactly what leads to death sentences for blasphemy for example - moves away from civil society in my view.
I don't yet have children but I find the idea of that kind of emotion-guided parental control over a teenager's life a bit frightening in itself - it's your own fears being seen as more important than their will or desires or choice of path in life. It is also what causes teens to do things without feeling they can talk about them and so act secretly (which only goes to help real predators with ill intention - which this guy may well be).
Audio Advent
03-03-2016, 20:39
That all this hysteria has stemmed from tabloid papers stirring up "righteous indignation" purely to boost their own profits.... is sick IMHO. Nervous parents often won't let their kids out to play as we used to do in our day for paranoia that there is a paedophile hiding behind every tree! We used to go off in the woods all day making swings over the beck etc and not come home for 6 hours, no mobile phones then either of course, and had great fun. I'll bet not many youngsters are allowed to today...
Meanwhile the very same tabloid newspapers will demand an apology from the police for merely investigating a dead Conservative politician accused of far far worse!
No presumption of guilt there when it's one of their own (in terms of the circles the owners of tabloids move in)! Nope, the alleged victims there are apparently of no worth.. or even vilified!
But if they see the perpetrator as a pleb (footballer) then the book must be thrown at them and the loudest noise made. It's almost as if it's a deliberate distration to take the heat away from something else.... sadly people lap it all up. Meanwhile the Tories want to force cancer patients to work by putting them on the breadline and face eviction as their motivation.
Arkless Electronics
03-03-2016, 20:42
I don't think I've read any post suggesting he's been hard done by particularly.
Unless you're saying that 5-10 years is good by your standards and anyone saying it would be over the top (given the info we have) is somehow morally wrong? That is why, hopefully, the courts and justice system do not deal in emotive, vigilante-style punishment. It is dealt out by rational thought and guidlines (for attempted consitency). To use emotion as your guide for punishment is exactly what leads to death sentences for blasphemy for example - moves away from civil society in my view.
I don't yet have children but I find the idea of that kind of emotion-guided parental control over a teenager's life a bit frightening in itself - it's your own fears being seen as more important than their will or desires or choice of path in life. It is also what causes teens to do things without feeling they can talk about them and so act secretly (which only goes to help real predators with ill intention - which this guy may well be).
Exactly! And eloquently put. It has almost become "social suicide" to attempt a rational debate on the subject such is the level of hysteria! Suggest that "the victim" is possibly partly to blame in a case such as this, or that a punishment is maybe a bit draconian, and expect to be accused of condoning all paedophiles and maybe even expect a punch in the mouth if in the wrong pub at the time:eek: Probably from some knuckle-dragger who minutes before was ranting on about how all immigrants of dusky hue and Islamic faith should be machine gunned before reaching shore....
Arkless Electronics
03-03-2016, 21:18
Meanwhile the very same tabloid newspapers will demand an apology from the police for merely investigating a dead Conservative politician accused of far far worse!
No presumption of guilt there when it's one of their own (in terms of the circles the owners of tabloids move in)! Nope, the alleged victims there are apparently of no worth.. or even vilified!
But if they see the perpetrator as a pleb (footballer) then the book must be thrown at them and the loudest noise made. It's almost as if it's a deliberate distration to take the heat away from something else.... sadly people lap it all up. Meanwhile the Tories want to force cancer patients to work by putting them on the breadline and face eviction as their motivation.
One of the latest evil Tory plots is apparently to force the elderly and disabled out of "desirable" bungalows (housing association stock etc) so they can be sold to wealthy people who, according to Tory dogma, are more deserving of a decent home than a disabled pensioner... cos they are wealthy of course....
Audio Advent
03-03-2016, 21:41
maybe even expect a punch in the mouth if in the wrong pub at the time:eek: Probably from some knuckle-dragger who minutes before was ranting on about how all immigrants of dusky hue and Islamic faith should be machine gunned before reaching shore....
and after they've spent a good while perving over 15 year olds in school uniform whilst driving around in the work van in the afternoon and having a good long stare at the "18 year old" on page 3.
Audio Advent
03-03-2016, 21:42
Oh right. Never heard of him.
Marco.
The correct response for any footballer's name in the press..
Oh right. Never heard of him.
Marco.
and you call yourself a football fan ?? :scratch:
Yes, I'm mainly a Scottish (Glasgow Celtic) football fan. I don't really pay much attention to the English stuff (outside of occasionally following what the top teams in the Premiership are doing, particularly Liverpool and Man Utd), so some kiddie-fiddling cockhead, playing for Middlesborough, wouldn't even trip my radar.
Marco.
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