Technics SL 1200 upgrade path

[Amdan]

...and yes I have been through the posts in this forum on this topic. :)

I notice that over time, opinions change on what the best upgrade items are for this tt. Hence, it would be good to find out what the latest thinking is.

My situation is as follows. I recently bought a stock Technics SL1200 MK5G. I mounted a Denon DL 103 and was very impressed by the sound. I also have a Michell Orbe/Tecnoarm/Dynavector DV-XX2. I prefer the Technics/DL 103 combination due to its sheer musicality. However, it is not as refined as the Orbe etc. I understand that upgrading the tt will improve this however I am also concerned that the pursuit of more refinement and detail may result in the loss of the musicality I so like.

My plan is to keep my current MK5G as a reference, buy another MK5G and slowly upgrade it. My questions are
1. What do you think of my plan? Any flaws?
2. How should I go about upgrading the new MK5G when I get it. Please note that I have a wall mounted tt stand and don't believe I will need new footers. I currently use the stock rubber mat.

I have ordered a Zu modified DL 103 and intend to use it and the DV-XX2 for the comparisons between the stock and modified tts.

I will start another post asking for advice on the latest thinking in the optimisation of the DL 103 on a Technics SL-1200. I think it would be simpler to keep these two topics separate.

[CageyH]

Get the PSU out of the deck, either by DIY or an aftermarket supply.
Upgrade the arm.. After that try a different platter mat, or a different platter.

[Spectral Morn]

I am surprised you think the 1200 more musical than the Orbe. My view would be that the Orbe is a warmer, more musical deck, whereas the 1200 is cleaner, more CD like, but in stock form has a thinner mid, cruder treble and a somewhat crude bass, lacking nuance and delicacy.

The Technics will have better timing and drive, but there is a greyness, which only upgrading removes, breathing colour into the sound, but that cleanness, CD quality still remains.

Problem here is we can use the same words, but sadly we are not always relating to those words in the same way.

Your Orbe must not be properly set up as that combo should, with ease, destroy a stock Technics. The Denon cart is a good cart. but in a stock arm, won't be working that well, you need the likes of a Jelco 750 to do that.

[Amdan]

I think you are right that the words probably mean different things to us.
When I say musical I mean the music is emotionally engaging. The Orbe/DV combination is more detailed - more of an audiophile presentation. It is far better when I look at individual aspects of the presentation but the whole is not as appealing.

[Amdan]

Interestingly the Orbe sounds much more musical when the DL103 is mounted on it. I have also put the DV-XX2 on the Technics and am finding the Orbe/DL103 to be very good musically

[Spectral Morn]

Interestingly the Orbe sounds much more musical when the DL103 is mounted on it. I have also put the DV-XX2 on the Technics and am finding the Orbe/DL103 to be very good musically

I have only ever tried the Denon in a Jelco750, as general advice is that arm suits it pretty well. I could try it in say my Triplannar, someday.

I think I understand what you mean now, but to my ears I think the stock Technics, in my system is more HiFi like. I have a friend nearby who has a Gyro, maybe worth doing a comparision some day. Not heard an Orbe in awhile but know what it usually does.

[Spectral Morn]

I think you are right that the words probably mean different things to us.
When I say musical I mean the music is emotionally engaging. The Orbe/DV combination is more detailed - more of an audiophile presentation. It is far better when I look at individual aspects of the presentation but the whole is not as appealing.

I think often that is the fundamental problem in trying to communicate what we hear, to each other.

[Amdan]

True. Makes having a meaningful conversation difficult to do in writing. It is a lot easier when both parties are listening to the system at the same session.

[Amdan]

Not sure why the Denon DL 103 has got a reputation for needing a heavy arm. It sounds great on both the Tecnoarm and the Technics arm. Perhaps it will sound better if I added some headshell weight. That will have to be my next experiment.

[Amdan]

OK. As far as I can tell the following are recommended upgrades in order of importance. Is this right?

1. Nagaoka Crystal Mat
2. Mike New Bearing
3. Mike New Base Plate
4. External power supply (Paul Hynes?)
5. ETP platter
6. Tonearm

[Yomanze]

Not sure why the Denon DL 103 has got a reputation for needing a heavy arm. It sounds great on both the Tecnoarm and the Technics arm. Perhaps it will sound better if I added some headshell weight. That will have to be my next experiment.
It doesn't "need" a heavy arm, but it sounds cleaner with better treble with some mass on it.

[Spectral Morn]

True. Makes having a meaningful conversation difficult to do in writing. It is a lot easier when both parties are listening to the system at the same session.

Agreed

[Amdan]

I am surprised you think the 1200 more musical than the Orbe. My view would be that the Orbe is a warmer, more musical deck, whereas the 1200 is cleaner, more CD like, but in stock form has a thinner mid, cruder treble and a somewhat crude bass, lacking nuance and delicacy.

The Technics will have better timing and drive, but there is a greyness, which only upgrading removes, breathing colour into the sound, but that cleanness, CD quality still remains.

Problem here is we can use the same words, but sadly we are not always relating to those words in the same way.

Your Orbe must not be properly set up as that combo should, with ease, destroy a stock Technics. The Denon cart is a good cart. but in a stock arm, won't be working that well, you need the likes of a Jelco 750 to do that.

I have been thinking about this. I am sure the Orbe itself is properly setup. However I wonder if I hadn't aligned the cartridge as well. I will give this a go sometime and report back.

[Amdan]

Get the PSU out of the deck, either by DIY or an aftermarket supply.
Upgrade the arm.. After that try a different platter mat, or a different platter.

Thanks Kevin. There does seem to be some consensus that the PSU is the place to start. Paul Hyne's units seem to be the most well regarded as well. Though I am very confused on the different levels of his PSUs. How is one better than another? Also, which one is the best for a SL1200?

[Amdan]

It doesn't "need" a heavy arm, but it sounds cleaner with better treble with some mass on it.

I tried it with a couple of coins stuck onto the headshell. I got a brighter sound but not well defined. I am going to get a Zu DL 103 so I don't think there is any point fine tuning the Denon DL 103 at this stage. I really have too many new toys at the moment.

[Amdan]

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This is a Japanese version. Any chance they are of a different quality to the international versions? I presume they were originally designed with a Japanese power supply requirement.

[Amdan]

A Japanese version as well......playing Peter Gabriel's SO album and doing it very well!

Edit: my second SL1200 MK5G

16419

[Amdan]

......and for good measure, wearing some borrowed clothes.

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[allthingsanalogue]

......and for good measure, wearing some borrowed clothes.

16424

Looking at your photo I don't think any Rega arms suit the Michell decks, nothing wrong with Rega arms, just not on Michell TT's, I have a Nima on my Gyro and it murdered my RB700 arm.

[Amdan]

That's Michell's Tecnoarm. I would have thought that it would be perfect for its price.