Turntable upgrade, advice sought...

[Simon_LDT]

I've upgraded my whole system (bar CD player) in the last 1-2 years and the last remaining piece is my turntable. I've had a Linn Sondek (:eek:) for the past 4-5 years which has been fine but I'm wanting to upgrade within the next 1-2 months and unsure how to proceed.

Budget is about £1000 (which is pushing it a little but can always use a bit of credit if need be).

My current Linn cost me approx £700, which was pieced together using a mixture of new/used parts by Peter @ Cymbiosis. I had a strict budget and ended up taking the Rega RB300 off my old deck and placing it on the Linn, which was meant to be for a short while but with me spending funds elsewhere and being happy with the overall sound of the Linn w/RB300, it has been nearly 5 years since!

My options I feel I have right now:

1. Upgrade the LP12. Nothing fancy as I can't afford all the ''exotic'' stuff (plus imo it's quite overpriced for what you get) but I'd be looking to fit a Cirkus kit (approx £500), Mose box to house my Hercules PSU outside the table (£170), a service at the same time and then a new arm (was looking at either a Roksan Nima or a 2nd hand Akito or Ittok, or something else??). All that would put me over budget slightly but if I went for a new arm I'd probably get that on credit
2. Sell the LP12 and buy something new altogether. This option is not my favoured one but I'm all ears if there are better options out there. I'd need a deck with arm and cartridge (or at least can fit my current Adikt MM cart to an arm) and all be within £1000 or thereabouts. If I sold the LP12, I could up the budget, although I reckon I'd struggle to get anywhere near £700 back, maybe around £4-500 or so.

Has anyone tried/got a Nima arm? I'm wondering how hard it is to set-up and maintain? I've no problem taking a bit of time and care into setting it up but don't really want something which requires constant messing with each listening session.

Any advice?

[DSJR]

With your deck in current pre-Cirkus trim, I can guarantee a NAS Spacedeck will absolutely annihilate it in ALL the 'Linn' aspects of melody following, rhythm and precision of pitch and stereo image. The other advantage is that the Spacedeck works better with an RB series tonearm (stock wiring too) than many other decks and that for me includes the slightly 'swimmy' Gyrodeck too (I feel you need to go to 'Gyrorb' upgraded level at least for things to fully settle down). I'm not just saying this, I've done the comparison a few times over the years. I don't care if Pete Swain breathed his holy breath on your deck, it's still a pre-Cirkus Fruitbox and since your old spec one, EVERYTHING has been beefed up and updated, from further plinth refinements to motors, another new sub-chassis to replace yours, armoboards and so on...

The Cirkus kit DOES offer an improvement in all the 'HiFi' areas of tonal quality, image focus and so on and the bass loses most of the 'fruity' quality it once had. There are other ways again the old deck can be upgraded though and Tangerine Audio products are available from many official dealers including Cymbiosis -

http://www.tangerineaudio.com/dealers.html

The 'Sole' sub chassis is also well spoken of but I don't know it personally I'm afraid.

[Simon_LDT]

So you think it would benefit me more to plunk down the cash on a new deck, use my existing arm and then if happy, sell the Linn and upgrade arm with the proceeds?

Whats the difference between the Spacedeck and ACE Spacedeck? Seems to be about a £2-300 price difference.

[hifi_dave]

I don't bother with the plain Spacedeck as the Ace version sounds better and in the UK, not much more expensive. I find my customers prefer the Ace version and the extra money is not a problem.

Differences are a beefed up motor and bearing housing.

[Jimification]

If you decide to stick with the LP12 (and leaving aside the question of "absolute" sound quality or not, there's a lot to be said for them as an "easy to live with" design). Then you probably want Cirkus first, then tonearm, then sub chassis (Kore if you go the Linn route, Sole or Akula for 3rd party)

The Nima (v2) is fantastic for the price. Cueing is a bit weird at first but you soon get used to it. Otherwise I'm not sure what you mean about setup and maintenance. There's a grub screw to set VTA, azimuth and tracking weight are simply set by moving the counterweight at the back (get a digital tracking weight scale if you don't have one - mine was £5 from china!). Anti-skate is the dangling weight thingy and I just leave that in the middle for a 2.0g tracking weight. Once you've set it up it won't go out, there's no maintenance or whatever. Really the only downside is some people don't like cueing a unipivot but you get used to it really fast and the Nima has a very nice arm lift built in anyway so you don't have to hand-cue.

Hope that helps a bit.

btw: If you want to see how good the Nima really is, see if you can get a demo of a Nima vs a Linn Akito II ! (£1500) :D

[Simon_LDT]

No way I'd pay £1500 for a new Akito, haha (that's what I mean by over priced). I only mentioned about the set-up/maintenance because from what I've read online that is the thing people say about it (Nima). I've never had or used a unipivot so no idea how they handle but surely it's not hard if it has a finger lift.

Must say I do like the look of the Spacedeck, although the possible weight has me worried for my ''hacked'' Ikea Lack ''rack''. Can it be used without the added plinth underneath? I read somewhere that supposedly the original design was to not include the plinth but that it was added for the US market. Any truth in that?

The thing that worries me about the LP12 is all the upgrades and whether they are actually worth the cost or whether it's all just a big con. I doubt I'll ever splash for an Ekos, Keel, etc. Even an old Lingo 1 can go for around £500 and those are really old.

Like I said though, I do enjoy my LP12 but I do question whether there is better out there for not much more, hence this thread. Do I lay a bit more cash on the Linn or put it to better use elsewhere.

I've still got some time to think this through thoroughly. Will be looking to splash the cash around April time so any other advice or opinions are most welcome. If you need me to answer any questions (other gear, listening tastes, etc) then let me know.

[hifi_dave]

The Space or Ace Spacedeck are not that heavy that you need to worry about the Lack table.

The plinth is an integral part of the design and should be used unless you have something such as a hunk of slate to site the TT on. The plinth was supplied from about week 2 of the very first production run of the Spacedeck, back in the late 80s. It had nothing to do with the US market.

[Ammonite Audio]

Another possibility, rather in the vein of the Nottingham decks: Analogue Works have some really nice decks that share much of the same DNA; at least Tom Fletcher's DNA!

http://www.analogueworks.co.uk

[Simon_LDT]

The Space or Ace Spacedeck are not that heavy that you need to worry about the Lack table.

The plinth is an integral part of the design and should be used unless you have something such as a hunk of slate to site the TT on. The plinth was supplied from about week 2 of the very first production run of the Spacedeck, back in the late 80s. It had nothing to do with the US market.

Are you able to say how much it acually weighs? I've seen conflicting info online. Most consistent seems to be 17kg but I've seen 20kg and one site I checked had around 30kg listed!

I only worry about the lack as I have 6 of them in a tier so the bottom one is holding all the weight of the others, although I've no idea how weight distribution actually works, I assume most of the support will be from the legs?


Another possibility, rather in the vein of the Nottingham decks: Analogue Works have some really nice decks that share much of the same DNA; at least Tom Fletcher's DNA!

http://www.analogueworks.co.uk

Thanks for the suggestion. Will take a look at those shortly.

[karma67]

If you keep the linn id go for an ittock. Big difference

[Jimification]

Quite coincidentally (honestly! as of only minutes ago) I will quite likely be selling my Kore (Rega version, for Nima) and Nima itself in a few days time (it looks like an Aro is coming my way, hopefully)

But on the “are the LP12 upgrades worth it?” question. As I said, I think yes (to a point – and you have to determine where that point is for yourself) if you decide to stick with the LP12, that is….. If you just want absolute sound per pound, then I would think something like a second-hand WTA would be very hard to beat.

And yes, I'd say Linn were really daft in naming their new mid-price tonearm "Akito II". Feels like the marketing dept. stuck a pencil in their eye with that one!

[hifi_dave]

Are you able to say how much it acually weighs? I've seen conflicting info online. Most consistent seems to be 17kg but I've seen 20kg and one site I checked had around 30kg listed!

I only worry about the lack as I have 6 of them in a tier so the bottom one is holding all the weight of the others, although I've no idea how weight distribution actually works, I assume most of the support will be from the legs?


I have no way of weighing them. It's definitely not 30Kg but might well be 20Kg and that should be doable on your table.

[rigger67]

I agree with Jamie : go for an Ittok.
It made a hell of a difference to the sound of my system and I am only using it with a P77, nothing fancy .. yet :eyebrows:

It's a cheap upgrade, relatively speaking, and you can sell the RB on or keep it till you're sure you prefer the Ittok, at least.

[Jason P]

If you like the Linn it might be worth talking to Inspire about their upgrades. I certainly wouldn't go down the Linn route as their prices are wayyyy OTT as far as I'm concerned, and I think there's better to be had with 'indies'.

My 'sweet spot' in LP12 ownership was indeed a pre-Circus deck with an Ittok - I think there's a synergy there that for me just worked, and my Linn never sounded the same after upgrades (Origin Live DC motor, OL tonearm) so I'd say if you like the Linn, money spent on a good Ittok with a nice MC cart would be a way to go. Whether or not it's the best sound you could get for the money is another matter...

[Simon_LDT]

Yeah, have been looking at Ittok's but even those will set me back at least £500-600 in decent condition. They seem to hold their value well too as they were at a similar price when I was looking around 2010-2011 (when I was deciding what components to build the deck with).

The other issue I have is that my table seems to suffer from footfall (I say seem to because I don't think I can hear any ill effects - but the whole thing bounces with ease when walking upto the table to change sides). I think from my seating position it's fine though and probably why I can't hear any issues. Still, it makes me wonder whether I should move away from a suspended deck before I jump right in fully. I should note that I can't have it on a wall shelf right now as I'm renting.

Thanks for the info on weight of the NAS Dave.