Oscar Controversy. I'm Confused.

[Macca]

Seems to me the Americans have always been a bit confused by 'race'.

First of all they start a country by declaring 'all men are created equal' then have millions of slaves. Once that finally gets sorted out - and only 'en passant' as it were, as a result of the Civil War - they have segregation for the next 100 years after that. And not just in The South - the US army was segregated until 1948

Now it is the second year running since all acting award nominees are 'white' and this is a big issue. They are now suggesting that from next year it will be compulsory to have 'non-white' nominees.

Surely if you were to win an award for something you would want it to be because you were good in it, not because of your physical appearance?

If they really want to forget about 'race' how does creating what is effectively a 'Coloured League' for actors achieve that?

I know it all seems crazy for those of us from the UK, but am I right in thinking this makes no sense whatsoever?

[struth]

Seems to me the Americans have always ben a bit confused by 'race'.

First of all they start a country by declaring 'all men are created equal' then have millions of slaves. Once that finally gets sorted out - and only 'en passant' as it were, as a result of the Civil War - they have segregation for the next 100 years after that. And not just in The South - the US army was segregated until 1948

Now it is the second year running since all acting award nominees are 'white' and this is a big issue. They are now suggesting that from next year it will be compulsory to have 'non-white' nominees.

Surely if you were to win an award for something you would want it to be because you were good in it, not because of your physical appearance?

If they really want to forget about 'race' how does creating what is effectively a 'Coloured League' for actors achieve that?

I know it all seems crazy for those of us from the UK, but am I right in thinking this makes no sense whatsoever?



Neither do Americans. They constantly belittled Britain for its empire while increasing theirs, and for having a class system when theirs was much more insidious ..

[walpurgis]

If they really want to forget about 'race' how does creating what is effectively a 'Coloured League' for actors achieve that?

Yup. 'Positive discrimination' is dishonest and undermines the essential principle of merit!

[Macca]

Yup. 'Positive discrimination' is dishonest and undermines the essential principle of merit!

I can understand in some situations it is necessary, especially in the US where the situation is complicated and goes back hundreds of years, and people are economically and socially disadvantaged solely by their racial background. But I'd not considered Hollywood as still being 'institutionally racist', and requiring of such measures.

[The Black Adder]

Macca - "Surely if you were to win an award for something you would want it to be because you were good in it, not because of your physical appearance?"

To the big guns with money (in the USA and the UK) it's the same as the pop industry, Hollywood is an incestuous melting pot of wealth and so the oscars are just a slap on the back for itself. Self driven, self funding and mainly driven by looks with 'talent' being an 'and finally' moment. It's whoever looks good and has the most financial backing/sponsorship that gets the vote.

Corrupt?... absolutely 100%... it's always been the same, and it won't change. To me, any award ritual like this is a waste of space. It's more of a fashion show rather than a show of talent. A place where stars get seen simply to gain sponsorship, blah blah blah... and it all goes round again.

These shows are simply not here for the main reasons the public think, that wouldn't bring in the money.

To me, the Oscars are very passe and because a film has an Oscar or any major multi awards it doesn't make me want to buy it.

'all men are created equal... although some men are more equal than others'. - Steven Stills

[Macca]

Oscars are one of many things in modern life that have no intrinsic value but do have a perceived value.

Oscar-wining actors are more likely to get offered work and more likely to get paid more for doing it. The film is likely to get more attention if it stars an award winning or nominated actor.

So the bottom line is money, and whether it is justified or not, the Oscars do matter.

Reading further on this subject it appears that the fundamental complaint is that 'white' actors are being cast in roles that 'non white' actors could have been considered for but weren't as it was felt it wouldn't fit the character as written/perceived. In other words racial stereotyping is going on, whether consciously or subliminally.

My question is: 'is introducing a quota for non-white nominations a solution to the problem or does it simply highlight and perpetuate what should be a non-issue in the modern world i.e 'race'

[Joe]

My question is: 'is introducing a quota for non-white nominations a solution to the problem or does it simply highlight and perpetuate what should be a non-issue in the modern world i.e 'race'

Well, race clearly isn't a non-issue in the modern world, even if it should be.

I don't follow films much (have seen one movie in the past six months), but there was an interesting discussion on R4 last night about this issue, where the interviewees listed several performances by black actors which they thought merited Oscar nominations. As one of them said 'It's hard to believe that of all the roles played in all the films made in the past twelve months, the 40 best were all played by white actors'.

Whether a quota system would help is an interesting point. I'm old enough to remember when a job could be refused to someone simply on the basis of their skin colour, and there were people who argued back then that legalising against racial discrimination was an undue interference in employers' rights to choose whom to employ, so I'm wary about 'it will only make matters worse' arguments.

[Macca]

I agree it is not a non-issue in the modern world but isn't that at least in part due to people banging on about it all the time, especially in high profile situations like this?

If you don't want to employ someone because of their race then you find some other reason not to hire them. They'll never know unless you tell them. The reduction of racism in the world of employment is simply down to there being more employers nowadays who are not racists; not the legislation - IMO.

If the Oscar selection is racist then I am all for sorting it out; not by a quota method though as that seems to me like a retrograde step.

[struth]

Maybe its the nominators that need a quota of black/coloured folk on. People cant vote on films or actors if they are not there... Forcing people who are disinclined to select coloured people to pick their performances opens up the spectre of seclecting poorer performances that wont win. I dont watch much new stuff but sure there are bound to have been some worthy performances ...

[Joe]

If the Oscar selection is racist then I am all for sorting it out; not by a quota method though as that seems to me like a retrograde step.

My solution would be to abolish the Oscars. Awarding prizes on the basis of 'artistic merit' is a fundamentally flawed process, made worse in the case of the Oscars by the amounts of marketing money put into making sure the 'right' films/actors win awards.

[Macca]

Agree a world without Oscars would be a better one but abolishing things goes against my libertarian principles. ;)

[Joe]

'all men are created equal... although some men are more equal than others'. - Steven Stills

George Orwell surely?

[Macca]

That was 'all animals....'

[Joe]

That was 'all animals....'

Are men not animals?

[struth]

Only with the right kinda ewe

[webby]

Can we have a white man in the Olympic 100m final please? It's not fair.

[archiesdad]

Do white artists get considered for the MOBO awards? Frankly award ceremonies seem like an excuse for a piss up and a bit of back slapping and corporate expense spending?

[Macca]

I suppose televised award ceremonies are considered good value marketing.

Or in the case of hi-fi magazines the awards issue is a chance to reprint all the year's reviews again and have an easy month. The press equivalent of a doing a clip show.