View Full Version : Quad 303 With Monitor Golds?
southall-1998
23-02-2016, 14:32
Is there anybody on here using Quad 303 to drive their Tannoy Monitor Golds? If so, does the 303 cope OK driving them?
S.
The two were used almost exclusively back then and I posted a pic here a short while ago of EMI Studio 2? control room in the early 70's with just such an arrangement (could be Quad 50E's though).. Apart from fancy Japanese integrateds which only really became serious in the mid 70's imo and the big Crown D series amps which only had three UK dealers in the early 70's, the Quad 33/303 was about it in the post valve early 70's and Radford had pretty well lost it for a while too - and even the later ZD22 preamp and HD250 integrated weren't that stable, the amp especially.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/tannoy_mg15_review_06_zpsojxnm3pz.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/tannoy_mg15_review_06_zpsojxnm3pz.jpg.html)
southall-1998
23-02-2016, 14:47
Are those Lancaster Tannoy's, Dave?
S.
They might be Shane, as the cabs are sort-of Lockwood Major size, using the Quad on the floor as a reference point. They're on tables so they can clear the mixer bridge.
(My mate when he was mastering at Decca, turned his B&W 801 stands on their sides to lift them further off the floor, as the mid and treble 'pods' were firing into the workstation and not into his ears - still sounded harsh to me but it could have been the big PA amp they were using. I was never an 801 fan and positively loathe the N800 models - gawd they're expensive crap to me, but I digress....)
The Black Adder
23-02-2016, 15:40
Yep, the 303 drives the MG's really well. So do QUAD 405-2's so you will have no worries there.
Wakefield Turntables
23-02-2016, 15:41
Yep those are Lancaster cabs, too small for lockwoods.
walpurgis
23-02-2016, 16:07
Yes. The Quads and big Tannoys were definitely a favoured combo in the early seventies. You occasionally saw amps Like the Sansui AU-999 and Cambridge P50 matched to them too.
(yes they look like Lancasters to me as well. Too dumpy to be Yorks)
southall-1998
23-02-2016, 16:11
Yes. The Quads and big Tannoys were definitely a favoured combo in the early seventies. You occasionally saw amps Like the Sansui AU-999 and Cambridge P50 matched to them too.
(yes they look like Lancasters to me as well. Too dumpy to be Yorks)
In your experience, Geoff.
Have you ever tried Tannoy ''Rectangular'' Chatsworth's (fitted with golds) in free space. You know, away from the walls etc.
S.
The Black Adder
23-02-2016, 16:14
They are Lancasters but set at standing height on tea trolly's. That photo is of the same room where they mastered DSOTM, apparently.
It's odd though because Abbey Road used Lockwood Major LE's in the control room of the larger studios to which the sound would have been much better than the boxy Lancasters. Maybe those had reds in them or even 12" MG's?
The Black Adder
23-02-2016, 16:18
In your experience, Geoff.
Have you ever tried Tannoy ''Rectangular'' Chatsworth's (fitted with golds) in free space. You know, away from the walls etc.
S.
For what it's worth, I have tried Lancasters set in to the room and in my opinion the sound wasn't good... As a long fabled rule, the larger tannoy's (Lockwoods or otherwise) sound better up against walls and toed in quite a bit. It's odd because it goes against the general theory of speakers needing space. But I find this to be the case with both Tannoy cabs and Lockwoods.
walpurgis
23-02-2016, 16:26
In your experience, Geoff.
Have you ever tried Tannoy ''Rectangular'' Chatsworth's (fitted with golds) in free space. You know, away from the walls etc.
S.
Never owned Lancasters Shane. They've always been a bit big for my listening environment. I have heard them many times though and agree with the general concensus, that they work well close to walls.
They might be Shane, as the cabs are sort-of Lockwood Major size, using the Quad on the floor as a reference point.
Sorry, Dave, I don't get that... How can Lancasters be "sort-of Lockwood Major size"? :scratch: LMs are about twice the size of Lancasters!
The speakers on that picture are defo not LMs, as the shape of the cabinet is wrong. However, whatever they are, they're certainly more Lancaster-shaped than anything else.
Marco.
Never owned Lancasters Shane.
He's asking you about Chatsworths, daftee, not Lancasters! ;)
Marco.
walpurgis
23-02-2016, 17:55
He's asking you about Chatsworths, daftee, not Lancasters! ;)
Marco.
Ah. You are correct. I've had the Chatsworth MGs in my system. The same applies though. The Cheviots are better here.
southall-1998
23-02-2016, 18:08
You know I've heard your Cheviots numerous of times, Geoff. Very good they sound!
I guess they love walls too :)
S.
Wakefield Turntables
23-02-2016, 19:30
Lockwoods are about 3 times larger than Lancasters. And I'm not that sure that the big tannoys sound "better" with a large of amount of toe-ing in. :scratch:
Sorry, Dave, I don't get that... How can Lancasters be "sort-of Lockwood Major size"? :scratch: LMs are about twice the size of Lancasters!
The speakers on that picture are defo not LMs, as the shape of the cabinet is wrong. However, whatever they are, they're certainly more Lancaster-shaped than anything else.
Marco.
I don't bloody know, I was only trying to help Shane and trying to get the scale of the cabs from the 303/50e underneath ;) the size of which I see every day. The Chatsworth? there isn't a small box, that I do remember from 40+ years ago. I would have thought the LM's weren't that much bigger, but as I said in the earlier thread, I've never used or been near the LM cabs whereas you live with them..
Lol... Well I can assure you that LMs are considerably bigger than Lancasters! ;)
Look here at a pair recently sold on ebay. Do these look like Lancasters: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tannoy-Lockwood-Vintage-Studio-Cabinet-Speakers-/301874288495?rmvSB=true&afsrc=1&clk_rvr_id=986766545998&nma=true&si=dSGUIS61bkd0FHVDXPYf2bFYJQE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
They'd never sit safely, perched upon those 'little stools' in that control room! :eyebrows:
Mine:
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/5181/lockwoodmajors027.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/lockwoodmajors027.jpg/)
Marco.
Aye but thats a dolls house ;)
:D
Hehehe... There is a nice wee assortment of 'dolls' behind that door, I can assure you! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Lockwood Majors in use in a recording studio:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/924/ptjrU5.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poptjrU5j)
They look just a tad bigger than the 'Lancasters' in t'other picture! ;)
Marco.
southall-1998
24-02-2016, 12:41
How much do rectangular chatsworth's (fitted 12'' golds) sell for these days?
Or a pair that has been sympathetically restored.
S.
walpurgis
24-02-2016, 12:47
How much do rectangular chatsworth's (fitted 12'' golds) sell for these days?
Or a pair that has been sympathetically restored.
S.
Around £1000. My mate recently bought a pair via eBay for slightly over that. He's very pleased with them.
(he still won't join up here though and he knows his Hi-Fi)
The Black Adder
24-02-2016, 12:54
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/d7/21/79/d72179a2ea1ae303a95ade031bcba5ad.jpg
Here you can see this Abbey Road control room has LW Major LE's. Note the rectangular reflex under the speaker.
southall-1998
24-02-2016, 12:54
There is a pair on ebay, but fitted with reds though. The seller's asking price is a bit manic!
In the chatworth cab. How do the reds sound compared to golds?
S.
The Black Adder
24-02-2016, 12:56
Reds sound nice but lack the bass extension compared to the golds. They were used for vocal stuff mostly.
The Black Adder
24-02-2016, 12:58
I can tell you that Lancasters with 12" MG's sound excellent... The Lancaster falls over in sound with 15" MG drivers. The 15" drivers need bigger cabs really. The good thing about these Tannoys is that they are easily interchangeable so when you find some better cabs later on simply swap them over.
I really liked my 12" MG's... they sounded really nice. When I upgraded them to Lockwood Universal cabs the sound changed again, superb... a nice learning/upgrade curve.
southall-1998
24-02-2016, 12:58
Reds sound nice but lack the bass extension compared to the golds. They were used for vocal stuff mostly.
But, do the reds have an easier amplifier load?
S.
walpurgis
24-02-2016, 17:49
There is a pair on ebay, but fitted with reds though. The seller's asking price is a bit manic!
In the chatworth cab. How do the reds sound compared to golds?
S.
I agree partly with Jo. If I'm not mistaken the early 12" Golds had the same cone with pleated paper surround as the Red, but with a higher power rating to the coil. The later Golds had long throw cone suspension and better bass extension.
The Reds were standard in the first Chatsworths. Followed by Golds and lastly HPD 315 units for a short period until the Cheviot was released as the Chatsworth's replacement.
The price asked for those on eBay is not surprising. Reds seem to command a fair old bit of wonga these days.
walpurgis
24-02-2016, 17:53
But, do the reds have an easier amplifier load?
S.
Why worry. All the classic Tannoys are easy enough on the amp. Some say you need a fair bit of power, but I've certainly never needed much. I have used 200 watt amps with Tannoys, but my 15 watt EL34 monos grip them fine as does the 25 watt SM-70 Pro.
The Black Adder
24-02-2016, 18:10
+1.. I've had super results from my little S.M.P.S digital amp. I think it does 15 or 20wpc.... I was flabbergasted to how it drove them.
southall-1998
24-02-2016, 19:06
Maybe I'll save up, for a pair of chatworths or lancs, fitted with 12'' golds. (Are they 16 ohms?)
I have a hungry Quad 303 inside the cage :)
S.
The Black Adder
24-02-2016, 19:10
8 Ohms.
Wakefield Turntables
24-02-2016, 19:24
My old Radford amp (EL34) could power my 15"MG pretty well but things improved no end when I moved upto the Sondex s100 amp based around KT88's.
PaulStewart
24-02-2016, 20:03
Just a note for historical accuracy, the pics from EMI Studio 2 were sort of Lancaster/Lockwoods. The cabinets had been modified by Lockwood Audio and became the bassis for the development of the Lockwood Academy 2s. That pair were later bought from Abbey Road by Ozzie Byrne, the producer who discovered the Bee Gees and broughtthem over to the UK. He used them in his studio in Harrow, Village Way recorders, where I was house engineer. I used these speakers in both studios. They were actually modified, I was told at the insistence of George Martin. After Village Way closed, they were bought by Roy Williams of Nervous Records, who still has them. They were always used in the studio with Quad 303s as far as I know. At the Rainbow Theatre studio, I had two pairs of MGs one set of Majors and One set of Academies. These were driven by a Quad 303 or an Amcron D60.
Cheers
The Quad 303?? the small(ish) rectangular beige Box?
Tried a borrowed one (two actually) decades ago on MY Golds
Sounds were exactly as if I had draped a towels over the front of my Speakers.
Dull lifeless with v little sparkle and mediocre dynamics to boot.
Confusing / contradictory results, given the popularity, praise even that some were heaping on the 303's
Suspecting a Dud unit, I borrowed Yet another.. Same Sounds. Seemingly an intrinsic failing.
Poor is a charitable descriptor.. memorable even decades on.
Tannoys are Strikingly responsive to upstream gear. Garbage in.. Definitely.. equals Garbage out.
Which is why ole Nelson Pass uses a pair as his reference Speakers to actually hear subtleties in the constant stream of Amplifier Topologies he experiments with.
Caveat Emptor Kids.
walpurgis
01-03-2016, 19:00
I've tried a Quad 303 a couple of times with my Tannoys and got exactly the same results. Dull!
Each to their own though. It's a popular combo.
8 Ohms.
I thought old Tannoys were 11 ohms almost as a minimum...
The Quad 303?? the small(ish) rectangular beige Box?
Tried a borrowed one (two actually) decades ago on MY Golds
Sounds were exactly as if I had draped a towels over the front of my Speakers.
Dull lifeless with v little sparkle and mediocre dynamics to boot.
Confusing / contradictory results, given the popularity, praise even that some were heaping on the 303's
Suspecting a Dud unit, I borrowed Yet another.. Same Sounds. Seemingly an intrinsic failing.
Poor is a charitable descriptor.. memorable even decades on.
Tannoys are Strikingly responsive to upstream gear. Garbage in.. Definitely.. equals Garbage out.
Which is why ole Nelson Pass uses a pair as his reference Speakers to actually hear subtleties in the constant stream of Amplifier Topologies he experiments with.
Caveat Emptor Kids.
It's not the 303, as they sound great with other speakers even today. If they go wrong it's bass control and damping. What preamp was used? Since the 33/303 and Tannoy combination was popular back then I wonder what was wrong and what the reference is?
I thought old Tannoys were 11 ohms almost as a minimum...
Nope. Golds are 8 ohms. Reds, Silvers and Blacks are 15 ohms :)
For me, Tannoy Monitor Golds, Reds, etc, really only come properly alive with good valve amps, since that's what they were originally designed to be used with. HPDs are a different matter.
Marco.
Not sure the MG generation were designed specifically for valve amps. I remember now how the sensitivity of MG's was decreased (and the impedance too?) so that more powerful ss amps could be used with them, mainly the aforementioned 303, which at 45WPC was deemed incredibly powerful back in the late 60's I remember. One possible benefit of the reduced sensitivity was slightly increased bass extension of the driver even before it went into the enclosure. Not very much, but a good step in the right direction. The HPD took this very much further I recall.
spendorman
02-03-2016, 12:06
I seem to remember that the 303 performed better into a 15 Ohm load than an 8 Ohm load.
Not sure the MG generation were designed specifically for valve amps. I remember now how the sensitivity of MG's was decreased (and the impedance too?) so that more powerful ss amps could be used with them, mainly the aforementioned 303, which at 45WPC was deemed incredibly powerful back in the late 60's I remember. One possible benefit of the reduced sensitivity was slightly increased bass extension of the driver even before it went into the enclosure. Not very much, but a good step in the right direction. The HPD took this very much further I recall.
Yup, all that's true, Dave. However, experience seems to show that valve amps work best with MGs, and bring out the best in them, but not necessarily so with HPDs. Monitor Reds and Blacks were most certainly designed to be used with valve amps, but like you say, were different beasts, electrically, from MGs.
Marco.
southall-1998
06-03-2016, 15:03
I have another Quad 303 lying around.
This particular one has one of Dada's revision parts inside. Why is there only 3 caps instead of 4?
S.
spendorman
06-03-2016, 15:20
Probably because they replaced the two paralleled smoothing capacitors with a single capacitor.
Wakefield Turntables
06-03-2016, 20:22
I tried driving my 15" MG's with my full modded Net Audio 405-2 and did not like the sound. :spew:
southall-1998
06-03-2016, 21:06
Probably because they replaced the two paralleled smoothing capacitors with a single capacitor.
2 pics from the sale.
In the 2nd pic, you can just about see the 3 caps.
S.
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/TDL-STUDIO/_57%201_zpsz7hchdsb.jpg (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/TDL-STUDIO/media/_57%201_zpsz7hchdsb.jpg.html)
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/TDL-STUDIO/_57_zpsfnmueucv.jpg (http://s602.photobucket.com/user/TDL-STUDIO/media/_57_zpsfnmueucv.jpg.html)
spendorman
06-03-2016, 21:19
Yes, looks like that's what has been done, quite normal to do this.
Mine's gone further - complete rebuild with Elna, Ansar and Black Gates too, as well as new resistors... Agree about impedance sensitivity, especially in the bass, where the cap coupling works against it.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DSCF1445.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/DSCF1445.jpg.html)
Dr Henry Jones
08-04-2017, 10:45
What preamp did you use? I have a 303 as a stand by amp and a very fine reserve amp it is! my art audio concerto has decided to have a hissy fit and I was very impressed when I put the 303 in its place until I can get the concerto fixed, however although the 303 is a very good solid state amp it's 33 sibling is a product of its time and not the best of partner by today's standards , however connect the 303 to my art audio pre and it is a very big surprise to the "quad gear is for the pipe and slippers " brigade if you really want to hear one sing use a simple passive pre. Now that is a very pleasant eye opener ! Cheers Steve
The Quad 303?? the small(ish) rectangular beige Box?
Tried a borrowed one (two actually) decades ago on MY Golds
Sounds were exactly as if I had draped a towels over the front of my Speakers.
Dull lifeless with v little sparkle and mediocre dynamics to boot.
Confusing / contradictory results, given the popularity, praise even that some were heaping on the 303's
Suspecting a Dud unit, I borrowed Yet another.. Same Sounds. Seemingly an intrinsic failing.
Poor is a charitable descriptor.. memorable even decades on.
Tannoys are Strikingly responsive to upstream gear. Garbage in.. Definitely.. equals Garbage out.
Which is why ole Nelson Pass uses a pair as his reference Speakers to actually hear subtleties in the constant stream of Amplifier Topologies he experiments with.
Caveat Emptor Kids.
We all hear differently.
Merely recounting MY experiences with my Quad setup ( early 70's) driving my MG's. The quads were moved out.. rather early on.
Disapointing as the reason.. memorably so, 40 yrs on.
Few years back a friend was into restoring 303's. Lovely quality work..bit misguided tho imo.. he wanted me to buy one,
tried repeatedly, but all the units he supplied left small impression. As in I didn't want one, even ultimately for free.
Used both a George Wright triode pre and a 10 k pot passive experimentally with them. Small pleasures indeed.
Oddly Same GW pre was awful sounding on my then new F6 amp, whilst the 10 k pot proved an epiphany combination.. and remains so.
Interesting these UK forums.. There seems a lot of love, from imo a selective memory past.
Ie; everybody loves the Look of an MGA, I do too. But own one? Not a hope.
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