Changing the arm on a 1210 Mk5

[mikeyb]

Hi,

Thinking of changing the arm for something better, I've already added the Mike New Bearing, IsoPlatmat platter. So I fancy a new arm now.

Looking at a Jelco 750D, but wondered if there was anything else I should check out up to about £500-600 fitted, taking into account arm board, new cable etc.

I like the look of the Micro Seiki 202, is the 505 suitable ( see it is longer at 237mm add opposed to the 202 at 229 and the Jelco at 230.

I am planning on keeping the Zu Denon 103 so it would need to be a suitable match for that.

Any advice would be great, I want to buy right and buy once ( yeah right ) then future investment will go on vinyl.

[CageyH]

The Technics specific audiomods arm?

[mikeyb]

The Technics specific audiomods arm?
I meant to say I'm not looking at a Rega based arm, much prefer the same style as the Technics/Micro Seiki.

Thanks for the mention though

[CageyH]

That narrows the choice down quite a bit.

[Ammonite Audio]

Hi,

Thinking of changing the arm for something better, I've already added the Mike New Bearing, IsoPlatmat platter. So I fancy a new arm now.

Looking at a Jelco 750D, but wondered if there was anything else I should check out up to about £500-600 fitted, taking into account arm board, new cable etc.

I like the look of the Micro Seiki 202, is the 505 suitable ( see it is longer at 237mm add opposed to the 202 at 229 and the Jelco at 230.

I am planning on keeping the Zu Denon 103 so it would need to be a suitable match for that.

Any advice would be great, I want to buy right and buy once ( yeah right ) then future investment will go on vinyl.

My own experience is that a Jelco SA-750D sounds quite a bit more 'grown up' compared to a standard Technics arm. The Jelco looks right on a Technics and is very hard to beat at the price. You can get suitable arm boards from a couple of trusted suppliers too (Speedy Steve and eBay seller f1sport). The Jelco is also quite tweakable, benefitting significantly from a better headshell (swappable headshells give you great flexibility with cartridges that like to see a bit of mass, like the 103), but avoid Jelco's pink Neglex cable like the plague! Jelco's standard mounting collar is a poor thing that looks lovely but does not support the arm properly - my own improved Jelco mounting collar means that setting up and adjusting a Jelco arm correctly becomes very easy - as many people on here can testify.

The ISOkinetik Silver Melody version of the SA-750D is also worth considering (with one of my collars, that is) but it stretches your budget a bit.

[mikeyb]

My own experience is that a Jelco SA-750D sounds quite a bit more 'grown up' compared to a standard Technics arm. The Jelco looks right on a Technics and is very hard to beat at the price. You can get suitable arm boards from a couple of trusted suppliers too (Speedy Steve and eBay seller f1sport). The Jelco is also quite tweakable, benefitting significantly from a better headshell (swappable headshells give you great flexibility with cartridges that like to see a bit of mass, like the 103), but avoid Jelco's pink Neglex cable like the plague! Jelco's standard mounting collar is a poor thing that looks lovely but does not support the arm properly - my own improved Jelco mounting collar means that setting up and adjusting a Jelco arm correctly becomes very easy - as many people on here can testify.

The ISOkinetik Silver Melody version of the SA-750D is also worth considering (with one of my collars, that is) but it stretches your budget a bit.
Hi,

Thanks for the info, if going the Jelco route I was definitely thinking of your collar, however I'm in the process of dealing with someone on here about a Jelco with Shuggies collar and just wanted to see if there was anything better at the price. Mind you it is second hand so a good bit cheaper than new which was why I mentioned the MS 202 as they seem to sell at around £200-230 which is cheaper still.

My budget at £500-600 was really to try and buy something second hand that was significantly better than £500-600 for a new item.

Although I suppose at that budget the Jelco at around half that would seem a decent buy.

I also fancied something a bit blingier lol.

[Michielius]

At a slightly higher budget you may also consider Ortofon 9" range of arms. Those are truly wonderful modern arms, but do have the classic looks you are probably looking for. The now discontinued AS-212S (static tonearm) and RS-212D (dynamic, but much more expensive) are still available new at some places or otherwise second-hand (maybe even in your budget). Or the new static model: TA-110.

These are made by Jelco, but are manufactured according to much higher specifications than the standard Jelco arms. And yes, it does make them perform in a totally different league than standard Jelco's (which are fine arms too, don't get me wrong :) )

Another option could be the SME M2-9R arm. This version (note the R) has a classic J-shaped arm tube, unlike the straight design of the M2-9.

[mikeyb]

At a slightly higher budget you may also consider Ortofon 9" range of arms. Those are truly wonderful modern arms, but do have the classic looks you are probably looking for. The now discontinued AS-212S (static tonearm) and RS-212D (dynamic, but much more expensive) are still available new at some places or otherwise second-hand (maybe even in your budget). Or the new static model: TA-110.

These are made by Jelco, but are manufactured according to much higher specifications than the standard Jelco arms. And yes, it does make them perform in a totally different league than standard Jelco's (which are fine arms too, don't get me wrong :) )

Another option could be the SME M2-9R arm. This version (note the R) has a classic J-shaped arm tube, unlike the straight design of the M2-9.
I've looked at the SME arm too, still can't decide what to do, I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure [emoji3]

[Michielius]

It came to my mind this weekend that maybe there's another option for you: the ISOkinetik Silver Melody SM750 arm. This one is an improved version of the Jelco SA-750D. It receives very good reviews and it's available for still a very modest price (650 quid) compared to Ortofon or SME models.

Hope you can make up your mind with so many options to choose from! :)

[mikeyb]

It came to my mind this weekend that maybe there's another option for you: the ISOkinetik Silver Melody SM750 arm. This one is an improved version of the Jelco SA-750D. It receives very good reviews and it's available for still a very modest price (650 quid) compared to Ortofon or SME models.

Hope you can make up your mind with so many options to choose from! :)
Hi,

funnily enough just been looking at one of those as Ammonite Acoustics have an offer on just now at £570 inc the collar I think.

Mike.

[Michielius]

Hi,

Ammonite Acoustics have an offer on just now at £570 inc the collar I think.

Mike.

Just had a look at it. It's indeed including the improved collar. Sounds like a very good offer, I would say. I read that they have just one left. Not sure whether you need an extra spacer (so bolt length will be 25mm then, I guess). As far as I know you don't, but there's a thread on using this arm on a 1200 here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?33736-IsoKinetic-Silver-Melody-tonearm

By the way: this arm doesn't come with an external arm cable with 5-pin DIN connector, so you need to order one separately. At Ammonite they offer a Black Rhodium cable for 350. But for that kind of money I would go for the ISOkinetic Silver Melody 2 tonearm cable, which is also 350 at Analogue Seduction. This one should match perfectly with the internal wiring, not sure about the Black Rhodium. The ISOkinetic cable uses pure silver wiring (like the internal wiring), the Black Rhodium uses silver plated copper. If 350 is too much, there are also cheaper alternatives like the Oyaide PA-2075 DR (265) or at a real budget the Jelco JAC-502 (85), both available in the UK at mains-cables-r-us.

I think for this kind of money (the Silver Melody arm with the Silver Melody cable will cost you 920) you will have a more than excellent arm and ditto cable for a very reasonable price.

[Ammonite Audio]

A spacer ring is certainly not needed with a Technics. Although I have no experience of the Isokinetik silver cable, I'd agree broadly with what's said above, except that the Jelco cable is a pretty miserable sounding thing (I owned one once), but that aside the Black Rhodium Stylus is the only one that I have actual and positive experience of - it's a really good, natural sounding cable, with capacitance pretty much as low as you can get, so that could be a factor if using moving magnet cartridges. It has been reviewed favourable by Paul Rigby here http://www.theaudiophileman.com/#!black-rhodium-stylus/cx8y . I am not allowed to discount Black Rhodium products, but I can certainly put together an enticing 'bundle' price with a tonearm. Yannis Tome sells a good quality basic cable that uses Van Damme microphone cable, at an astonishingly low price ( see http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Van-Damme-Tonearm-cable-Twisted-pair-Ultra-Pure-Silver-plated-OFC-copper-/221774228101?hash=item33a2c62a85:g:ZHMAAOSw8d9UuOT g ) and that would be my choice if funds are tight.

[mikeyb]

Again, thanks to both of you for your help and info, I've still to make my mind up which way to go, £600 is really top of my budget, and that's my head talking not my heart as money isn't an issue, but I'm not sure if spending £900 or so on an arm will be much of a gain over say the Melody arm and one of the Van Damme cables.

I still have a phono stage to buy to match my ZU Denon 103 which at the moment sounds great through the built in mc stage on my TQ Claymore amp, so a stage will hopefully improve it further still.

In fact I'm awaiting return of my Claymore 2 back from service and I might just run with that and sell the TQ which would gain me around £1000 back into the kitty, that would help greatly so that I wasn't dipping into any of the household money if you know what I mean.

Once this amp returns this week and I get a listen to it I'll see a clearer path, it did seem to really drive my PMC's well and I've recently moved them to the other end of the room which has really helped the soundstage and sound, the soundstage is almost like surround as I now hear certain pieces of music right beside my ears at about 4m from the speakers, this is mostly due to the ZU cartridge as I don't get it using my 2m Blue.

So my plan is this:

Setup my Claymore 2 amp when it arrives.

Try it with the 2m Blue and NVA Phono 2 MM stage which I have on demo.

Try my ZU 103 mc cart direct into both the TQ and Mark 2 Claymore amps ( I don't have an mc stage just now )

Return the NVA stage and get it changed to mc to match the ZU 103, then have a listen when it returns.

THEN..... I'll maybe make my bloomin mind up about an arm lol.

[Michielius]

You're most welcome. All the different arm options can make your head spin, I know. With your budget, the ISOkinetic arm paired with the Van Damme cable sure sounds as the way to go. Should also be a great match with your ZU 103. Including armboard total cost will be slightly over 600, though. Cables can always be updated in a later stage, when funds allow it.

To me it seems a very wise decision to first sort things out with the amp and pre-amp in order to set the budget for the arm. Good luck with all the listening and reviewing, and don't forget to enjoy it I might add! Keep us informed, I'm curious about which arm it will be eventually :)

[CageyH]

£600 will probably get you a nice Japanese vintage arm, and give you enough t get it fettled by J7.
I think that is where I would put my money.