View Full Version : If you could choose just one MC cartridge?
What would it be, and why?
I know that there will be many different answers to this, as people have different tastes/opinions, but the responses received will be used as a shortlist.
ZYX R-50 BLOOM H MOVING COIL MC CARTRIDGE. Bottom of their line i think but realistically the only one i could afford. Meant to be rather special for money according to our Geoffrey
AT33 variant... Great vfm carts.
walpurgis
22-02-2016, 10:16
Koetsu Azule or Zyx Omega.
(of course then I'd have to spend £15,000 to get an SUT and phono stage to do justice to either)
If I wasn't paying .... Audio Note Io Limited, with S9 SUT. Best I've ever heard, by a margin.
If I was paying ... probably the Miyajima Shilabe or Kansui
If you mean, choose one of mine ... the Io1
Oldpinkman
22-02-2016, 13:17
Having spent 20 years avoiding moving coils, I have to say the Dynavector xx2ii is bloody good. Really really good. Works a treat with an FXR arm too. Probably even work on a dodgy direct drive turntable :D
One day I'll let you hear for yourself :(
Ammonite Audio
22-02-2016, 13:19
I'll be in a better position to answer this after I receive a Miyajima Takumi that will be with me shortly!
southall-1998
22-02-2016, 13:24
Denon DL-160.
S.
What would it be, and why?
I know that there will be many different answers to this, as people have different tastes/opinions, but the responses received will be used as a shortlist.
Some idea of your budget would be useful Kevin.
Ideally, around £1k Max.
Happy to stretch it a bit of there would be a big difference but silly price cartridges are out of the question.
I should also have asked what arm are you using? If it is one with an SME/EIA bayonet fixing, then I would suggest an EMT XSD 15. You ought to be able to get one for less than £1000. The following review by 6moons makes interesting reading:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/emt/3.html
Cheers
Barry
The arm is a Funk FX1200 upgraded with the latest F.X arm tube.
walpurgis
22-02-2016, 17:01
At a little over a grand, this will take some beating!
http://i63.tinypic.com/2gvsk5j.jpg
A friend recently bought a Koetsu Red Sig and I am amazed how good it is. Personally I would really like a Koetsu Blue. I'm not sufficiently familiar with the upper end Audio Notes but they have a great rep. Otherwise I'm sticking with enjoying and re-tipping one of my Troikas.
Sublime
http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh589/stevied50/image_zpsjwvqcfzt.jpeg
Haselsh1
22-02-2016, 19:55
I chose exactly the one I wanted, the Benz Micro Silver high output MC.
Floyddroid
22-02-2016, 20:04
I'll be in a better position to answer this after I receive a Miyajima Takumi that will be with me shortly!
+1. Myajima would be my choice.
+1. Myajima would be my choice.
But they are all north of £1,000, so outside the OP's budget.
Ammonite Audio
22-02-2016, 20:48
But they are all north of £1,000, so outside the OP's budget.
Oh, I don't know about that;)
Of course totally dependent on your arm and taste in music, but I'd give a huge additional vote for the ZYX Bloom which is unbeatable vfm for a clean, airy, modern sound. Of course for the same sort of money you should be able to get a good s/hand SPU which is a different world, different not better!
walpurgis
22-02-2016, 21:29
Of course totally dependent on your arm and taste in music, but I'd give a huge additional vote for the ZYX Bloom which is unbeatable vfm for a clean, airy, modern sound. Of course for the same sort of money you should be able to get a good s/hand SPU which is a different world, different not better!
Interesting comments.
I'm not sure why "taste in music" would come into it. A good cartridge is a good cartridge. I'm not a believer in having equipment targeted as being more suitable for certain types of music than others. A good system should reproduce any music enjoyably.
I like your observation about the R50 Bloom and SPU. Having owned both, I'd agree that they are at least equals, but different.
[QUOTE=walpurgis;732991]Interesting comments.
I'm not sure why "taste in music" would come into it. A good cartridge is a good cartridge. I'm not a believer in having equipment targeted as being more suitable for certain types of music than others. A good system should reproduce any music enjoyably.
This is exactly what the Denon 301 MK2 does as I found out at the weekend.
walpurgis
22-02-2016, 21:41
This is exactly what the Denon 301 MK2 does as I found out at the weekend.
Not tried one of those. Although I did own the original 301 and a 304.
Not tried one of those. Although I did own the original 301 and a 304.
Cheap as chips for an MC and is probably a half way house between a 103 and DL-S1. Body is very similar to DL-S1.
Geoff, I don't disagree with you; it shouldn't matter, but the subtle differences between many good cartridges boil down to a style of presentation or voicing that in turn suits a certain recorded sound. Its all a compromise as nothing in the chain is perfect from studio to speaker and room, so pick the compromise that you like the best. I love the tone of the SPU and what it does for vocals, but for complex sounds and orchestral dynamics then the ZYX is my choice. Its certainly nothing to do with musical genres per se.
Not tried one of those. Although I did own the original 301 and a 304.
Nice woofers Geoff!:)
walpurgis
22-02-2016, 22:47
Nice woofers Geoff!:)
The hooters aren't bad either! ;)
I love the tone of the SPU and what it does for vocals, but for complex sounds and orchestral dynamics then the ZYX is my choice.
Hi Martin,
Welcome to AoS :)
I know exactly what you mean about the "tone" of the SPU, and what it does for vocals, but when playing (say, some Shostakovich), orchestral dynamics are stunning with my SPU G/T - indeed, in my experience, that's one of the things which SPUs do really well!
Marco.
sq225917
22-02-2016, 23:47
Benz lp if you like the mildest touch or warmth, Lyra Kleos if you like it straight no chaser, or save up for that Lo if you wants guts and glory.
Benz lp if you like the mildest touch or warmth, Lyra Kleos if you like it straight no chaser, or save up for that Lo if you wants guts and glory.
Lo? Wossat, then? :scratch:
Marco.
Lo? Wossat, then? :scratch:
Marco.
I think it was a typo and should have read "Io".
walpurgis
22-02-2016, 23:56
Lo? Wossat, then? :scratch:
Marco.
Lyra's that tight stuff wot cyclists wear! :eyebrows:
For me, the EMT JSD-5 would be high up on my list:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/921/MkgJIc.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plMkgJIcj)
A truly stunning sounding cartridge! :)
Marco.
For me, the EMT JSD-5 would be high up on my list:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/921/MkgJIc.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/plMkgJIcj)
A truly stunning sounding cartridge! :)
Marco.
Mine too - BUT the OP's budget is £1,000. Some of the cartridges suggested cost much more than £1,000!
That wasn't what was asked in post 1 ... at your prompting, Barry, the thread changed! Could you amend the title, please, and add 'at £1k new'?
In which case .... I don't have a favourite mc at that price point. It'd be a cartridge man music maker, or maybe a london decca super gold :ner: :D
£1000 new then I would have to say "Lyra Delos" would be my choice.
To be honest, I was interested to see what cartridges people were choosing regardless of price as it would enable me to see where the perceived best sound quality point was in the MC world. The fact that most of the cartridges are north of my budget makes me wonder if it is worth dipping my toes in the water, or if I should stick to the top end MM/MI cartridges and track down an MP-500, AT150ANV and Audionote IQ3 to name a few.
The what MC cartridge would you choose for around £1k could be an interesting thread, or this could evolve to a choice of a money no object MC and one for around £1k.
Oldpinkman
23-02-2016, 06:55
TBH Cagey most people, like me, will tell you a cartridge they have heard and liked, without the ability to reference it against all the others, never mind all the possible installs and system compatabilities. I'm not sure such a thread does anything useful - it just allows a bunch of guys to express a limited opinion about what they know.
Do you have an MC amp now? I can send you the Technics to try. It will give you an idea about what a good MC can do (there are no end of poor, and frankly some horrible ones out there). It may not be the very last word, but its a bloody good cartridge, and works well in your arm.
Looks like a dem of the Dynavector is going to have to wait a bit longer. Our "dead cert" buyers failed to raise mortgage finance, and we are back on the market - at an even higher price. It's all very lovely being told our house is worth even more, but we want to sell the bloody thing, not boast about its theoretical value down the pub :doh:
Personally I was thinking of the lines of one of the following, but having only heard one HOMC I am looking for advice and suggestions, hence the thread.
My list:
Hana SL
AT 33SA
AT ART-9
Ortofon Quintet Black
Benz Micro SL
Dynavector DV XX2
Rega Apheta
Lyra Delos
Quite a list, and I will never get to hear all of them.
The "local" dealer has the Dynavector, Rega and Lyra but I really don't like his prices, so it would be wrong to go there, take up his time and buy elsewhere.
Of course, if I bought the AT 33SA and Hana SL I would have 2 cartridges that may not be as good as the Lyra or Dynavector.
Richard,
I will have an MC amp very soon.
This is future planning for around end of June when my annual bonus arrives. £1k is about all I can justify but I can probably stretch slightly. Most of the money needs to go on more home improvements, such as railings around the terrace to make it safe for the littl'un.
The idea of floating this out there was to see if there was anything I had overlooked, but I am not sure I will purchase something so expensive without hearing it first. I may need to speak to some of the online suppliers and see about the returns policy on MC cartridges. Failing that, get to some shows and try and hear what they can do in unfamiliar surroundings.
I am of course happy to wait a bit so that I can hear your Dynavector.
Oldpinkman
23-02-2016, 07:35
Personally I was thinking of the lines of one of the following, but having only heard one HOMC I am looking for advice and suggestions, hence the thread.
My list:
Hana SL
AT 33SA
AT ART-9
Ortofon Quintet Black
Benz Micro SL
Dynavector DV XX2
Rega Apheta
Lyra Delos
Quite a list, and I will never get to hear all of them.
The "local" dealer has the Dynavector, Rega and Lyra but I really don't like his prices, so it would be wrong to go there, take up his time and buy elsewhere.
Of course, if I bought the AT 33SA and Hana SL I would have 2 cartridges that may not be as good as the Lyra or Dynavector.
Why would you need a shop? Ask the distance selling king of Nene Valley. Apparantly it is morally and legally acceptable to just find someone who sells a cartridge you are interested in, buy it, and then send it back used but undamaged on the basis you are not sure its right. Simples ;)(and I think he is)
I don't know the HANA. The AT wouldn't be on my shopping list. The Lyra is a good cartridge, but TBH I struggle to imagine anything significantly (as in "at all") better than the Dynavector. However, as you know, I am not really interested in this eternal quest for the ever so slightly better. I reject stuff that doesn't float my boat, but if its good enough for me to enjoy, I try to avoid getting distracted by the idea there might be something better, and prefer to enjoy using the solution that works. :)
Looking at the prices of MC cartridges, I too only want to buy one.m;)
I don't think, no I know, that Mrs H won't be happy if I want to buy more than one. She will probably tolerate me buying one, but two will be out of the question as we have work to do on the house.
Firebottle
23-02-2016, 08:20
I will have an MC amp very soon.
Sooner than you think ;)
Ali Tait
23-02-2016, 08:33
Save a few quid and buy a Denon DL S1. As good as carts costing a lot more IMHO.
Of course, economic best sense would be just buy a couple of new stylii for the 2M Black ... then you're sorted for the next decade or more! :D
Whatever mc you buy in that price range won't be much, if any, of an improvement on a well set-up 2M Black, ime. Most mid-priced mc's I have heard would have a smidge more transparency, and slightly quicker dynamics maybe, but overall not a huge upgrade. OTOH, something like the Cadenza Black is clearly better, but at a price.
From the ones I have heard from your list .... if you want excitement, then the Rega Apheta is your best bet. The ATs are nicely neutral and detailed, so are probably somewhat similar to what you are used to in their presentation ... maybe not really much of an upgrade on the 2M? I have heard the Lyra Delos sound very good in similar arms to your's. It's a very good all-rounder, and would be the one I'd go for on your list, personally.
One of the best MC I have ever listened is the Transfiguration Temper.
Unfortunately it is no longer in production and is only used, so great caution is required in the purchase.
On the other hand, luckily, the price has dropped and is in line with your budget.
For this reason if you will find one near to your site, and have the possibility to test it directly, you should take it into strong consideration, imho.
TBH Cagey most people, like me, will tell you a cartridge they have heard and liked, without the ability to reference it against all the others, never mind all the possible installs and system compatabilities. I'm not sure such a thread does anything useful - it just allows a bunch of guys to express a limited opinion about what they know.
Lol - I beg to differ!
Whilst obviously I haven't heard every cartridge there is (that would be ridiculous), I've certainly heard and used many 100s of different ones, both new and vintage, together with having considerable experience of having listened to a huge array of equipment, which I or close friends have either owned, or I've heard at shows and bake-offs (at the latter often extensively with some of my own gear), plus through getting to know most of the regulars here, I have a pretty good handle on their tastes - and Kevin is one of them.
Thus this allows me to make recommendations that have a chance of being genuinely useful, such as I've done recently with Jimbo (and others), in terms of their delight with Shure M55Es, and now Jim's Denon DL-301, which is also hitting the spot for him nicely :)
The thing that's holding Kevin back from going for what I'd consider as the genuinely 'high SPPV' options of the MC cartridge world, which I'm sorry, and I know you won't like me mentioning, is his tonearm. Excellent as it is (used with cartridges with which it's compatible), it's not really suitable for the low-compliance Denons I would normally suggest, when providing cartridge recommendations up to £1000, although a Denon DL-301 would be a different matter [as would indeed a DL-S1, if he can find one], and that's one I certainly would recommend.
However, the FX-1200 would certainly work well with any of the cartridges on his list. Of those, the Hana is the one I'd go for, as I think it has the potential of offering Kevin the biggest bang for his buck, or indeed the DL-301 mentioned, which he'll be able to read Jimbo raving about elsewhere :cool:
Either of those, or indeed any of the MC cartridges on his list, would outperform pretty much any MM cartridge, so he can be assured that upgrading to an MC would be entirely worthwhile.
Marco.
I thought that one of the cartridges used in development of the FX1200 was the DL103?
It just needs a suitable head shell weight.
...and not forgetting the means to balance it out at the other end, by employing the use of a heavy counterweight ;)
After which you've considerably altered the behaviour of the arm, by increasing its effective mass, and the strict low-mass principles upon which Arthur builds his tonearms. I believe that the FX-1200 was designed to be as lightweight and rigid as possible; two things that in my experience are fundamentally opposed to getting the best from a DL-103.
However, I know that Arthur is a fan of the Denon, admiring its musical qualities, but we agree to differ on how best to optimise it :)
Marco.
Oldpinkman
23-02-2016, 10:09
The DL103 wasn't used in the development of the F.X arm range. The arm was developed to fulfill the role of a neutral transparent dynamic arm. The cartridge was bought and used by Arthur to try out because the likes of Marco go on about it so much it becomes a "reference". It works in the arm, as you correctly point out if you mass load it sufficiently. Low compliance MC's like the Denon create 2 issues
1) the high compliance has an effect on the mechanical resonance of the system, which needs neither to be in the audio band, nor in the subsonic record warp region. Match the effective mass with headshell mass loading and you address that point
2) they chuck out a lot of "noise" in the form of mechanical energy, regardless of whether the mechanical system resonance is in the 7-13Hz region. That noise needs dealing with. In a "normal" arm with resonance peaks of 10db or more, that energy is potentially going to produce a serious colouration. Damping and decoupling are one solution, but loss of focus is the inevitable result. (if the cartridge signal from the coils is a function of reading the relative movement between the stylus and the coils themselves, self-evidently the objective for accuracy is rigidity not flexion) The F.X arms are able to deal effectively with that "waste" energy without damping or decoupling, since they naturally have no resonance peak in excess of 3db, and so in that context are well suited to the cartridge (or well designed to cope with its problems). Good tight bearings help there too!
That doesn't mean the cartridge was used in the development. Just that it is capable of dealing with it. And it doesn't make the Denon a good cartridge. It does confirm that people will have their own packaged solutions they will trot out ad infinitum
"I'm thinking of getting a new cartridge"
Enter Harry Enfield
"You don't want to do that. No no no. You want a new arm mate!" :D
Personally I was thinking of the lines of one of the following, but having only heard one HOMC I am looking for advice and suggestions, hence the thread.
My list:
... cut cut
Rega Apheta
Lyra Delos
... cut cut
Hi Kevin,
just a few weeks ago a friend of mine has came to my house with a Rega Alpheta, I was very curious to hear this cartridge because I own its "dedicated" phonostage, the Rega IOS.
And the result, compared with my Lyra Delos was good but not at the same level.
There was a slightly lower resolution high and medium range, and a slightly higher floor noise, both of us preferred the Delos.
Btw I find the Delos a very "audiophile" cartridge, but I gladly exchange some resolution of the Delos with a bit of extra "body" in the voices, and that should be perfect for me.
So, at the end, I agree with Marco, maybe the right cart should be the Denon DL-S1 :)
I do have a suitably heavy "3 piece" counterweight set, but I doubt I will go down the 103 route.
I think there seems to be better options for my arm from what I read above. ;)
The DL103 wasn't used in the development of the F.X arm range. The arm was developed to fulfill the role of a neutral transparent dynamic arm. The cartridge was bought and used by Arthur to try out because the likes of Marco go on about it so much it becomes a "reference". It works in the arm, as you correctly point out if you mass load it sufficiently.
Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense :)
Low compliance MC's like the Denon create 2 issues
1) the high compliance has an effect on the mechanical resonance of the system, which needs neither to be in the audio band, nor in the subsonic record warp region. Match the effective mass with headshell mass loading and you address that point
2) they chuck out a lot of "noise" in the form of mechanical energy, regardless of whether the mechanical system resonance is in the 7-13Hz region. That noise needs dealing with. In a "normal" arm with resonance peaks of 10db or more, that energy is potentially going to produce a serious colouration. Damping and decoupling are one solution, but loss of focus is the inevitable result. (if the cartridge signal from the coils is a function of reading the relative movement between the stylus and the coils themselves, self-evidently the objective for accuracy is rigidity not flexion) The F.X arms are able to deal effectively with that "waste" energy without damping or decoupling, since they naturally have no resonance peak in excess of 3db, and so in that context are well suited to the cartridge (or well designed to cope with its problems). Good tight bearings help there too!
Indeed, but the fact is that ALL cartridges are a collection of compromises, so it's simply a matter of choosing those you can live with most.
In that respect, whether the above electrical considerations translate into genuinely audible (unacceptable ones), when you've optimised everything as far as possible, is moot. I certainly hear no "serious coloration" when using any of my DL-103s. Specs can sometimes be misleading, and often not even relevant to what is actually heard.
Modern, medium to high-compliance cartridges, simply contain another set of compromises, translating into a sound that you will either love or hate, much the same as with low-compliance ones, such as the Denon DL-103 or SPUs. The fact is, neither approach (old or modern) is automatically the overall 'superior'! :nono:
I happen to like the low-compliance/high-mass route, not just because of the type of sound it produces, but with a bit of work and some lateral thinking, it tends to result in higher SPPV, mainly because low-compliance MCs, being deeply unfashionable, are rather less expensive to buy than their modern counterparts! Therefore if 'bang for buck' is a major consideration, then in my experience, more can be achieved by going down the low-compliance/high-mass route.
And it doesn't make the Denon a good cartridge. It does confirm that people will have their own packaged solutions they will trot out ad infinitum...
In the right set up, the Denon is a superb cartridge, and when optimised and correctly partnered, I would comfortably put up against any other cartridge made, where it would easily compete in the areas where it excels. It's not perfect though, but then neither is anything else.
As for the bit in bold, do you mean like you continually "trot out" Funk solutions, ad infinitum, like a sales rep without a trade account? ;)
I "trot out" solutions, Richard, which I know will work, based on considerable experience of using them. Therefore, please allow me to be as passionate about that, as you are about Funk stuff, without the need to flippant or patronising.
Marco.
I do have a suitably heavy "3 piece" counterweight set, but I doubt I will go down the 103 route.
I think there seems to be better options for my arm from what I read above. ;)
Indeed, trust me, there are. I would definitely NOT advocate that you change your tonearm, as you like what it does, and it works well on your T/T, therefore it makes much more sense to find a cartridge that naturally (and easily) compliments it - and that cartridge isn't a DL-103.
However, a DL-301 or DL-S1 would sing beautifully on the end of your FX-1200 :)
Marco.
Kev I have a medium mass tonearm and now run the 301 mk2 in it. This is a fabulous cartridge and was recommended by Marco who assessed its compatibility with my arm and got it bang on. Original I was going down the Denon 103 route but ended up with the 301 because it suited my arm better.
I could not be happier especially as it was £200 so not in the big bucks division. It is an expensive mistake if you choose the wrong high end MC.
Oldpinkman
23-02-2016, 10:54
Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense :)
I "trot out" solutions, Richard, that I know will work, based on considerable experience of using them. Therefore, please allow me to be as passionate about that, as you are about Funk stuff, without the need to flippant or patronising.
Marco.
That's fair Marco. I appreciate your enthusiasm. It was more an expression of frustration at the lack of the "good old days" when there were HiFi shops you could try stuff in. Other peoples experiences and opinions are not the same thing**. I am not persuaded by the man from Nene Valleys view that they are worthless and that direct mail is a viable substitute.
Kevin is planning to try the Technics. I would be surprised if he is disappointed with it.
** I bought my parents back from France a vintage local wine and a couple of cheeses, including a local goats cheese which is delicious. My Mum loves goats cheese - my Dad won't touch the stuff. No amount of reading on a forum my Mum saying how sublime the goats cheese was is going to make it right for my Dad . :cool:
So, at the end, I agree with Marco, maybe the right cart should be the Denon DL-S1 :)
Ciao Eugenio. Spero che tutto e bene oggi? C'è un po di sole questa mattina, qui a Galles, è caldo anche. Sembra quasi la primavera! :)
Yes, a DL-S1 would blow Kevin's mind and suit his arm perfectly. It is a truly stunning sounding (properly 'high-end' cartridge), at quite frankly, a ridiculous price. It is as good as anything you'll get up to £3k. I kid you not.
There's one currently for sale in Japan, from a trustworthy seller: http://www.japanhifi.com/denon-dl-s1-moving-coil-cartridge/
Obviously, you'd have to factor in tax and import duty. It'd still be a bargain, though!
Marco.
That's fair Marco. I appreciate your enthusiasm. It was more an expression of frustration at the lack of the "good old days" when there were HiFi shops you could try stuff in. Other peoples experiences and opinions are not the same thing
I appreciate where you're coming from, Richard, and agree :)
However, recommendations on forums are what we've got these days, and I believe that done right, can be of valuable help to enthusiasts.
I receive numerous PMs and emails from people thanking me for the help I've given them, which has proved invaluable in terms of getting the most from their systems, and in turn, deriving the greatest enjoyment from their favourite music, which is why I do what I do, as nothing is more satisfying for me than receiving such communication :cool:
Marco.
Ciao Eugenio. Spero che tutto e bene oggi? C'è un po di sole questa mattina, qui a Galles, è caldo anche. Sembra quasi la primavera! :)
Ciao Marco,
everithing is fine, thank you, the sun is shining in Milan too, today :)
On the hifi side I am collecting ideas for restore in the best way on my new TD124 (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?43382-My-Thorens-TD-124-Mk1-restoration-project)
Ah, most interesting. I'll pop over later and have a look at that thread! :cool:
Marco.
pure sound
23-02-2016, 11:44
I took delivery of a Hana SL a week or so back. It's a very nice sounding even handed cartridge. I'd whole heartedly recommend it at the price (£450). With a decent SUT it'd be a very good option and within your budget.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/20160215_123923.jpg
No commercial connection for me, I just wanted to try one.
Thanks for the feedback on the Hana.
My only concern is that whatever I buy, I would like it to be a step up from what I currently have in terms of performance.
I have been following Jimbo's exploits with interest with regards to the 301, so will keep an eye on the thread as time goes on.
I am going to try and audition a few cartridges by whatever means possible to help make the decision easier.
If I can't audition it, I will strike it from the list.
pure sound
23-02-2016, 12:20
One other thing to bear in mind with the Hana is that it's a fairly light cartridge & doesn't particularly want to be used with a heavy arm. I'd have thought it would go well with the Funk arm though. How you'll get to hear one I'm not sure. There appears to be a few dealers about so someone may be able to help out.
I'd say it was a nicer cartridge to listen to than the 2M black, which like many Ortofons (SPU's excepted) seems to err on the cool side of neutral.
There you go then, Kevin. If Guy rates it, then that's good enough for me, as I him and I share similar sonic proclivities, and I trust his ears :)
If it were my money, and you genuinely want maximum SPPV, I'd go for the Hana or the 301 - or better still, grab that DL-S1 from Japan, as it's a killer! ;)
Like he correctly says though, how successful you are in getting the most from the Hana (or indeed any quality MC cartridge) will be down to how good your phono stage is. Remind me, are you still getting a KIN, or what's your plans on the SUT/head amp front?
Marco.
The plan is for a KIN, potentially with a head amp to follow.
Before spending that much on an S1 - I would need to hear one first. ;)
Fancy a long weekend in North Wales? We have a spare room and plenty of nice grub and wine!
Bring your T/T with you, and you'll hear what the DL-S1 is capable of, against some of the 'lower end' Denons. If you tie it in when Jimbo visits (which'll be soon), then you'll hear it against the DL-301, too! :cool:
You could team up with Firebottle, next time he comes over from France in his van.....
Marco.
Thanks for the offer.
Travelling back in a van? :eek: I think I would rather use my "uber barge" for a trip like that. ;)
The logistics of travelling back by car for a weekend means it's a long drive - about 9 hours in France alone.
It will take some planning, but I will look into it.
Fancy a long weekend in North Wales? We have a spare room and plenty of nice grub and wine!
Bring your T/T with you, and you'll hear what the DL-S1 is capable of, against some of the 'lower end' Denons. If you tie it in when Jimbo visits (which'll be soon), then you'll hear it against the DL-301, too! :cool:
You could team up with Firebottle, next time he comes over from France in his van.....
Marco.
That sounds like a cracking idea -I would certainly be up for it. Would be a great Denon bake off, but obviously we know who the winner will be.:)
Kevin I have heard the DL-S1 and it is jaw dropping good, however the 301 MK2 is a superb MC especially when you consider how much it costs.
I can see myself ending up with the DL-S1 - hope Denon start manufacturing them again!
Thanks for the offer.
Travelling back in a van? :eek: I think I would rather use my "uber barge" for a trip like that. ;)
The logistics of travelling back by car for a weekend means it's a long drive - about 9 hours in France alone.
It will take some planning, but I will look into it.
Lol... The "uber barge" sounds interesting. I know it's a long drive, as I've done it from Italy (returning to Glasgow) on many an occasion! :eek:
However, you'd be welcome to stay as long as you like, or there are some nice (and inexpensive B&Bs) locally. It could be a fun thing to do in the summer, where the weather here is usually rather nice - not quite south of France warm, but most often dry and sunny.
Oh, and I live right next door to a pub ;)
Yup, Jim - a mega Denon cartridge bake-off. Just think how much could be learned from that one! :cool:
Marco.
Lol... The "uber barge" sounds interesting. I know it's a long drive, as I've done it from Italy (returning to Glasgow) on many an occasion! :eek:
However, you'd be welcome to stay as long as you like, or there are some nice (and inexpensive B&Bs) locally. It could be a fun thing to do in the summer, where the weather here is usually rather nice - not quite south of France warm, but most often dry and sunny.
Oh, and I live right next door to a pub ;)
Yup, Jim - a mega Denon cartridge bake-off. Just think how much could be learned from that one! :cool:
Marco.
Think I might have to B&B it too so can enjoy the local refreshment! :) It could be a really good session.:cool:
Firebottle
23-02-2016, 14:31
, next time he comes over from France in his van.....
Van indeed.......... it's got proper seats in it and everything. I'd rather come over in Kevin's wagon though.
No, Kevin is another 4 and a half hours further south, so it's a loooooong trip.
:)
Van indeed.......... it's got proper seats in it and everything.
Yes, I forgot you had proper seats installed to facilitate 'entertaining' those female hitch-hikers you pick up en-route :eyebrows:
Marco.
martinjohn308
28-02-2016, 16:01
My present cartridge is a Kiseki Blue NS which I've had since Christmas 2014.
It has everything I thought my previous cartridge was very good but the Kiseki Blue is in another league.
Regards,
Martin
Having done a bit of thinking about this, I am going to go for a Hana SL at the end of the month.
Having recently bought the KIN, dropping 1k+ on an MC cartridge will probably go down like a lead balloon chez Cagey.
All the reviews are promising and I think it will be a good match for the F.X1200 sat on my deck.
Firebottle
05-04-2016, 06:20
Don't weight it with a lead balloon, use the counterweight :eyebrows:
Hope you like it,
:cool:
Hana SL getting some good reviews Kevin so will be interested to hear your thoughts on this cartridge. Believe it is manufactured by a Japanese company who also build cartridges for some top names :eyebrows:
hifi_dave
05-04-2016, 10:46
Correct. Put another name on the front, charge double and no one would query it. Excellent value.
[QUOTE=walpurgis;732991]Interesting comments.
I'm not sure why "taste in music" would come into it. A good cartridge is a good cartridge. I'm not a believer in having equipment targeted as being more suitable for certain types of music than others. A good system should reproduce any music enjoyably.
This is exactly what the Denon 301 MK2 does as I found out at the weekend.
Hi James - I've got a 301 II in a drawer. Looking to get a MC phono stage soon, so I can get it back into service, remarkably tolerant of surface noise and defects I found. Very good for the price.
RobbieGong
05-04-2016, 12:04
Having done a bit of thinking about this, I am going to go for a Hana SL at the end of the month.
Having recently bought the KIN, dropping 1k+ on an MC cartridge will probably go down like a lead balloon chez Cagey.
All the reviews are promising and I think it will be a good match for the F.X1200 sat on my deck.
In a nut shell and in my experience I can vouch that the Ortofon Quintet Black is a genuine upgrade from your 2MB and indeed an audiophile bargain, as described by the hifi press. If you want more of the 2MB's attributes and not afraid of accuracy, honest portrayal of whats on the vinyl ie: thin recordings not beefed out, weighty recordings portrayed as such in an even handed way then this cart is fab. And yes it is musical without question (otherwise it wouldn't be on my deck !!) musical as in as musical as the recording is ;) which doesn't suit everyone but I love :) I've sent you a pm to that regard.
Firebottle
05-04-2016, 13:09
[QUOTE=Jimbo;732993]
Hi James - I've got a 301 II in a drawer. Looking to get a MC phono stage soon, so I can get it back into service,
You are very welcome to try one of the MC Head Amp demonstrators Ken, just shout.
:)
Thanks for the offer Alan.
I just pulled the trigger on a Pro-Ject Phono Box RS.
Purchased the Pro-Ject Pre Amp recently and I want to keep the Balanced connectivity. Their Phono stage is a fully balanced design, from input to output, with an incredible amount of adjustment for MM/LOMC/HOMC. It has 3 gain levels for unbalanced and 3 different gain levels for balanced. If you couple that to the 3 gain levels available on the Pre Amp 0dB/6dB/12dB the combo will cover most situations. Plenty of adjustment for capacitance and impedance as well.
[QUOTE=Jimbo;732993]
Hi James - I've got a 301 II in a drawer. Looking to get a MC phono stage soon, so I can get it back into service, remarkably tolerant of surface noise and defects I found. Very good for the price.
It is a superb cartridge for the money and knocked my 2M Black off the top spot. It does everything the 2M can do and more without any nasty surface noise as you found out. It tracks like a demon and has not produced any sibilance or etched high end stuff whatsoever.
It is a great well rounded cartridge that I find gives all the musical enjoyment you could wish for from a recording. It's not one of those edge of your seat listening experiences where you are seeking hifi thrills, it boogies with a full bloodied analogue sound which has made my vinyl experience addictive.
I think you can tell I like this cartridge a little.:)
James - I think you forgot to mention, its a lot cheaper than the 2m Black. I got mine from the States and paid just under half the price of a 2M Black.
I would agree with your description, it makes for a very enjoyable listening experience.
Just pulled the trigger a few minutes ago on a MC Phono stage, so mine will be back in service soon.
Pretty pleased with the Dynavector house sound with my XX2 mk2.
Would love to be able to trade up to an XV-1t at a later date.
Heard one at Jony Audio Origami's place hooked up to his PU7 arm.
Sublime sounding.
Ali Tait
05-04-2016, 17:07
Will shortly be getting a Benz Gullwing SLR. Hoping for good things..
Will shortly be getting a Benz Gullwing SLR. Hoping for good things..
Going to need an arm with some mass to mount one Ali
http://www.kidston.com/kidston-cars/2273/images/cars/2273_1.jpg
:D
Ali Tait
05-04-2016, 18:04
Ha, I wish!
RobbieGong
05-04-2016, 18:07
Ha, I wish!
Me too, it would get sold to fund all manner of other nice things :D
IslandPink
05-04-2016, 18:29
Pretty pleased with the Dynavector house sound with my XX2 mk2.
Would love to be able to trade up to an XV-1t at a later date.
Heard one at Jony Audio Origami's place hooked up to his PU7 arm.
Sublime sounding.
Very good cartridge ... but it got me thinking about the Dynavectors, and the feeling I have about them is that they are a bit confusing as they don't have a 'house sound' , at least the ones I've tried. I have an XX-1L from a while back, compared against my usual Denon 103R I loved the refined and subtle top-end and the extra low bass ( and inner-track detail ) but the mids are not as clean and colourful as the Denon . More recently I thought I'd get an XX-2 II that popped-up - with low hours - and first impression was great - has the midrange tone and dynamics of the Denon ( as expected from the alnico ) but the top-end sounds a bit in-yer-face and HiFi to my taste - so I've never fully taken to it. In between I tried a 17D2 and the top-end was really detailed and subtle but the mids and upper bass were hollowed-out and dry to where I couldn't listen to it .
Now if the XV's have the best combination of the XX-1L's and XX-2's strengths then that would be a GREAT cartridge.
I have just popped my AT150MLx back on, and I really quite like it.
It's actually the EA body with an MLX stylus. I may well have had a change of mind by the time I go to bed.
What a bl**dy nightmare.
I used to be indecisive, and now I am not sure.
RobbieGong
05-04-2016, 19:23
I have just popped my AT150MLx back on, and I really quite like it.
It's actually the EA body with an MLX stylus. I may well have had a change of mind by the time I go to bed.
What a bl**dy nightmare.
I used to be indecisive, and now I am not sure.
Lol, it's a right old game this hifi lark :) read good things about the AT150MLX. Dont forget to get back to us once you've spun a few more sides, we're all waiting - no pressure ;)
As I know what the AT150MLX does, I may stay safe with this one and go for the AT33PTG/II. :eek:
RobbieGong
05-04-2016, 20:06
As I know what the AT150MLX does, I may stay safe with this one and go for the AT33PTG/II. :eek:
Ha Ha, Yep the AT33PTG gets good reviews in fact heres an interesting comparison with the AT150MLX http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/the-at150mlx-vs-at33ptg-ii-comparison.477192/
Oldpinkman
05-04-2016, 20:06
The technics is going to surprise you. I'll pop it in the post when I'm back
RobbieGong
05-04-2016, 20:09
The technics is going to surprise you. I'll pop it in the post when I'm back
:scratch:
topoxforddoc
05-04-2016, 20:11
Probably a ZYX - closest MC to my Deccas :)
The technics is going to surprise you. I'll pop it in the post when I'm back
Thanks. :)
Well I spent an interesting evening switching between the 2M Black and the 150MLX. I think I prefer the 150MLX if I had to choose one out of the two.
I have also read that to get the best out of the QB, it needs to be nude. I can't even contemplate spending that much on a cartridge and then have to risk breaking the cantilever off removing the body. The QB is an interesting proposal though.
The question is now AT33PTG/II or Hana SL?
How do the two compare?
I recon the Hana SL would be a good punt,the AT might be a bit bright and Hifi?
I find the 150MLX less "HiFi" than the 2M Black.
I can see me ending up with both, and a 301Mk2. :lol:
Well the 301 mk2 is very cheap compared to all the other cartridges mentioned and I although I haven't heard the 150MLX,
I bet it would tick all the boxes for you.
The most stunning cartridge I have ever heard was Marco's Denon DL-S1 but I would say the 301 achieves about 80% of this.
I have had the 301mk2 running for a few months now and have been through a large chunk of my vinyl. I would say this cartridge has not failed to please on anything,it just does everything so right.
That is another thought.
I can afford to get the 301 and the AT33. I just need to wait for 2Juki to get some stock of the 301.
Audio Advent
08-04-2016, 20:01
For 1K you can pick many many many broken super-carts of yesteryear and get them refurbed to an as-new (if not original spec) status for a further £750 or even less.
That way you can utilise the magnet/body/coil materials that would otherwise be out of your budget range for a new cart.
Vastly expands your choice and also makes your cart a bit more unique if you like that aspect. Didn't Analogue North used to have a trade account on here and show work of the type I'm talking about?
That wasn't what was asked in post 1 ... at your prompting, Barry, the thread changed! Could you amend the title, please, and add 'at £1k new'?
In which case .... I don't have a favourite mc at that price point. It'd be a cartridge man music maker, or maybe a london decca super gold :ner: :D
4 years on, and I wish I would have listened to your advice.
I bought a Music Maker Classic on this forum, and I think it is a great cartridge. I hate to think how much you would have to spend to improve on it.
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