amp recommendations please?

[the_doc735]

is this in the right forum?

Anyway, I've been posting here for a short while and I've got the impression that I could do with a bit better amp than the (old) NAD 3020i for which I paid around £80, I'm looking for second hand bargains not new stuff! Willing to go to £200 maybe £300? I am aware that like review sites it's only your own personal opinions and it's not the same as actually testing these things 'face to face' for real. "BUT!" ~ on the other hand 20 or thirty people all recommend one particular make and model whilst another set of people say 'definitely NOT!' to an alternative make & model, I would suggest that - that is a pretty good general guide broadly speaking? i.e. don't bother with the say 'toshiba' coz the arcam is a far superior amp.

So, I think you can see what I am asking for?

Cheers!

[Floyddroid]

I would recommend an amp with the sonic balance to suit your needs and works well with the speakers you decide upon. Therefore which ever one you go for make sure you listen to it with the rest of your gear first preferably at home. There are many options of which my colleagues will no doubt be recommending. Have fun.
is this in the right forum?

Anyway, I've been posting here for a short while and I've got the impression that I could do with a bit better amp than the (old) NAD 3020i for which I paid around £80, I'm looking for second hand bargains not new stuff! Willing to go to £200 maybe £300? I am aware that like review sites it's only your own personal opinions and it's not the same as actually testing these things 'face to face' for real. "BUT!" ~ on the other hand 20 or thirty people all recommend one particular make and model whilst another set of people say 'definitely NOT!' to an alternative make & model, I would suggest that - that is a pretty good general guide broadly speaking? i.e. don't bother with the say 'toshiba' coz the arcam is a far superior amp.

So, I think you can see what I am asking for?

Cheers!

[jandl100]

Hi Paul

Yep - let's have some more details about the rest of your system, the room, the music you want to play and the sort of sound you want.

Are you a techno-dub electronica fan who wants to flex the walls with subterranean bass, or do you have a prized collection of solo flute recordings that are the be all and end all of what you want to listen to?

Do tell. :)

[danilo]

Hmm... "old' Nad 3020 was a fairly decent amp. IF the thing is healthy ?
Nads are better than 80% of the gear available.. True, believe it or not, their main failings are in build quality/durability, not sounds.
IMO you may have to either Spend Large to better it Or go the DIY route (as a cost savings approach to the same result).
Real question is what? are you feeding it with? and most importantly: What speakers are you driving ?
Speakers are.. the usual weak link, not necessarily the amplifications.
See to those First :-).
G'luck

[the_doc735]

Nad 3020i amp + Tacima CS947
Tannoy DC6T Speakers
Tannoy TS10 Subwoofer + Tacima CS947
sennheiser HD 558 headset
Arcam Miniblink DAC + iFI iPOWER
HP Pavilion G6* - 2382sa D0Y14EA#ABU + Creative BT-D1 [+ Azio BTD-V401]
[*using onboard battery for music listening].


I mainly listen to prog. rock, but I like most things except opera & C&W.

HOPE THIS HELPS EVERYONE?

[the_doc735]

the NAD can be bettered?


Yes. But you'd have to quote a budget. What I mean is that £85 worth of second hand Denon PMA-350SE will give you a big leap in resolution, transparency and punch, but a used Sugden A21a or Creek Destiny at around £550 will take you much further. And they'll all work fine with the Tannoys. But of course there are other options.

[wee tee cee]

Paul,
Have a look at TEMPLE AUDIO the gold would fall into your budget. If you only run one source its spot on (noticed you run a sub-may not suit).Sonically pretty hard to better straight out the box.

Add a passive pre/battery power as you go down the road!!!!

Just another option to consider..

[the_doc735]

Paul,
Have a look at TEMPLE AUDIO the gold would fall into your budget. If you only run one source its spot on (noticed you run a sub-may not suit).Sonically pretty hard to better straight out the box.

Add a passive pre/battery power as you go down the road!!!!

Just another option to consider..

At the moment I only have the DAC input, but I might need phono (vinyl), tape deck (cassette) or tuner in the future? Then there is the possibility of using the hi-fi with the Samsung Smart TV & Panasonic set top box (UE40ES7000/DMR-BWT720)?

I happen to like the cheapo looking front black & gray plastic facia with minimal controls on the NAD !! (i.e. no noisy LED displays etc.). Not too keen on the 'glitzy' bling look!!

There seems to be quite a lot of: Cambridge/arcam as well as NAD on the fleebay at the moment in my price range! Would the NAD C 326BEE be considered an upgrade? Or an arcam alpha? I think mine is 125w - 20hz/20KHz?

[RichB]

Why rule out new? Onkyo A-9010. £179 at richers.

Has all the functions you need, sounds good, well reviewed, beer money. You'll get a warranty.

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/can-a-%C2%A3200-amp-really-be-this-good-andrew-everard-says-it-definitely-can

[the_doc735]

Why rule out new? Onkyo A-9010. £179 at richers.

Has all the functions you need, sounds good, well reviewed, beer money. You'll get a warranty.

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/can-a-%C2%A3200-amp-really-be-this-good-andrew-everard-says-it-definitely-can

So, that's an impressive write up (hope it's neutral?). So, in your opinion, you think it would be worthwhile ditching the NAD 3020i in favour of the Onkyo A-9010 UK? Better all rounder? ~ or what? What's the incentive?

Cheers!

SPECS:
3020i - 2 ch. x 20W [at 8 Ohm] - 20Hz. - 20KHz. (from interent) 'USED' ~ may have become compromised with age!
9010 - 2 ch. x 44W [at 8 Ohm] - 10Hz. - 100KHz. (from interent) 'NEW'.

[Arkless Electronics]

Just had a look at that review.... seems good VFM but... "capacitors with heatsinks for cool operation, and low-impedance output transistors" Really? There's no such thing as a low impedance output transistor.. and if your capacitors need heatsinks somethings gone badly Pete Tong... of the epic and very short lived (minutes) variety!

[the_doc735]

Just had a look at that review.... seems good VFM but... "capacitors with heatsinks for cool operation, and low-impedance output transistors" Really? There's no such thing as a low impedance output transistor.. and if your capacitors need heatsinks somethings gone badly Pete Tong... of the epic and very short lived (minutes) variety!

Well that was looking rather hopeful until I read your statement. However - that's not the only review of Onkyo on the web, others seem to rave about the product too!

[the_doc735]

Why rule out new? Onkyo A-9010. £179 at richers.

Has all the functions you need, sounds good, well reviewed, beer money. You'll get a warranty.

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/can-a-%C2%A3200-amp-really-be-this-good-andrew-everard-says-it-definitely-can

2nd. reply

got one for £128

lets see what its like then....?

[RichB]

So, that's an impressive write up (hope it's neutral?). So, in your opinion, you think it would be worthwhile ditching the NAD 3020i in favour of the Onkyo A-9010 UK? Better all rounder? ~ or what? What's the incentive?

Cheers!

SPECS:
3020i - 2 ch. x 20W [at 8 Ohm] - 20Hz. - 20KHz. (from interent) 'USED' ~ may have become compromised with age!
9010 - 2 ch. x 44W [at 8 Ohm] - 10Hz. - 100KHz. (from interent) 'NEW'.

I don't know what the NAD is like to be fair, I've heard a few 3020 in my time and they were always decent enough , it's just a suggestion for something non too expensive with good sound.

I have one of their reference receivers and it's very nice indeed.

[RichB]

2nd. reply

got one for £128

lets see what its like then....?

Keep us posted!

[RichB]

Just had a look at that review.... seems good VFM but... "capacitors with heatsinks for cool operation, and low-impedance output transistors" Really? There's no such thing as a low impedance output transistor.. and if your capacitors need heatsinks somethings gone badly Pete Tong... of the epic and very short lived (minutes) variety!

Usual reviewer knows no technical detail. I know onkyo stuff and their build quality is decent, even at this price.

[Firebottle]

Don't know where they get 'capacitors with heatsinks' from, I think the reviewer doesn't know his components.

http://audio-heritage.jp/audioshow/2015-afn/onkyo/08.jpg

Looks well built and a bargain to me.

:)

[CageyH]

I think it is just bad use of the English language.

[Bigman80]

I have a NAD 312. It uses the same circuitry as a 3020 apparently. I too have been considering an upgrade but the truth is nothing other than Alan's Firebottle kin and air have taken my fancy BUT I've only heard that through Alan's speakers so I'm not sure if mine would do them justice. Once you upgrade one component, the rest need doing too usually lol

[Frazeur1]

There's no such thing as a low impedance output transistor.. and if your capacitors need heatsinks somethings gone badly Pete Tong... of the epic and very short lived (minutes) variety!

Now that is funny! :thumbsup:

[Audio Advent]

I would recommend an amp with the sonic balance to suit your needs and works well with the speakers you decide upon. Therefore which ever one you go for make sure you listen to it with the rest of your gear first preferably at home. There are many options of which my colleagues will no doubt be recommending. Have fun.

If you're going to be buying secondhand, most likely from ebay or local ads if you want to find the best prices, trying at home first just isn't an option. It's good advice if you're buying from a dealer though..

Better then to research prices so that you only ever buy at a median price for that bit of kit, then you can sell on afterwards at no loss if it doesn't sound good at home.

[Audio Advent]

Well that was looking rather hopeful until I read your statement. However - that's not the only review of Onkyo on the web, others seem to rave about the product too!

That's a criticism of the review, probably using a poor translation of a Japanese press release.. it's not an opinon on the amp itself.

[Arkless Electronics]

Technical journalism is not what it used to be! Angus McKenzie and Donald Aldous would never have stood for this ;)

[Macca]

I hate the way that even though reviews are totally subjective these days they will still use the first 500 words cutting and pasting techno-babble from the brochure/ press release. Then on to some waffle about how Diana Krall sounds (or some similar dross you've never heard of). 'Vocals were firmly centre stage' - well yes I should hope so seeing as you have 2 speakers and it is a professional stereo recording. What useful info are you telling anyone with that gem of perception?

It would be great to have proper reviewing make a comeback, I might start buying the mags again.

[webby]

I wonder how the Onkyo would compare to my 20 year old Audiolab 8000S which I leave on 24/7; I fear it's going to die one day and I need to consider what I'd replace it with. Or is the 8000S in a different league?

[Macca]

You'd think a different league as there is a big price difference - an 8000s new in todays money would be the thick end of £2K.

But without doing a back to back comparison I wouldn't like to commit.

My experience has been that you get quite subtle differences between adequate amps and good amps that you only become aware of over long, relaxed listening sessions, not quick comparisons. Then the subtle differences do matter quite a lot.

[Floyddroid]

Good lad doc. Check me site out... www.theprogmeister.com

Glad to know there's another Prog fan here.:eyebrows:
Nad 3020i amp + Tacima CS947
Tannoy DC6T Speakers
Tannoy TS10 Subwoofer + Tacima CS947
sennheiser HD 558 headset
Arcam Miniblink DAC + iFI iPOWER
HP Pavilion G6* - 2382sa D0Y14EA#ABU + Creative BT-D1 [+ Azio BTD-V401]
[*using onboard battery for music listening].


I mainly listen to prog. rock, but I like most things except opera & C&W.

HOPE THIS HELPS EVERYONE?

[the_doc735]

last few posts are a bit vague regarding this capacitor/transistor thing? Anyone got a hands on experience/knowledge that can be verified online (as proof)?

Shows how easy it is to forget about the music and put the electronics first! e.g. do I need a degree in electronics to enjoy watching a movie on TV? On the other hand I quite like meddling with hobbyist ICB stuff e.g. building kit form synthesizers etc!

Actually, I'm thinking of removing the guts of the Arcam miniblink and installing it inside the amp casing. Yes, I know plenty would say: "why not just get an amp with a built in DAC instead? (A) ~ because this is more fun and I don't know if there are any Amp/DAC combo's that employ the must have APT-X wireless codec? :scratch::scratch::scratch:

...and if there is, it would probably cost a fortune?

[the_doc735]

I wonder how the Onkyo would compare to my 20 year old Audiolab 8000S which I leave on 24/7; I fear it's going to die one day and I need to consider what I'd replace it with. Or is the 8000S in a different league?

I was considering one of these myself, cheap from fleebay. :D

http://www.whathifi.com/audiolab/8000s/review

[RichB]

last few posts are a bit vague regarding this capacitor/transistor thing? Anyone got a hands on experience/knowledge that can be verified online (as proof)?

Shows how easy it is to forget about the music and put the electronics first! e.g. do I need a degree in electronics to enjoy watching a movie on TV? On the other hand I quite like meddling with hobbyist ICB stuff e.g. building kit form synthesizers etc!

Actually, I'm thinking of removing the guts of the Arcam miniblink and installing it inside the amp casing. Yes, I know plenty would say: "why not just get an amp with a built in DAC instead? (A) ~ because this is more fun and I don't know if there are any Amp/DAC combo's that employ the must have APT-X wireless codec? :scratch::scratch::scratch:

...and if there is, it would probably cost a fortune?

I think it's something lost in translation in that review. Onkyo kit is solid.

[Firebottle]

last few posts are a bit vague regarding this capacitor/transistor thing? Anyone got a hands on experience/knowledge that can be verified online

Everything is as one would expect, there is nothing unusual or weird about the components.
I have marked up the internal shot:

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt97/Paramotorpilot/Onkyo.jpg

The heatsink is the large finned extrusion and has the output transistors bolted to the right hand side of it (as viewed).
The 'low-impedance output transistors' is probably just a comment that they are decent sized transistors.

The capacitors are the two large tubular components and are pcb mounted as would be expected.

The 'connected directly the speaker terminals, rather than wired' comment just relates to the output sockets being pcb mounted also, rather than connected with separate wires.

As I said looks well built, nothing to worry about :)

[the_doc735]

Everything is as one would expect, there is nothing unusual or weird about the components.
I have marked up the internal shot:

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt97/Paramotorpilot/Onkyo.jpg

The heatsink is the large finned extrusion and has the output transistors bolted to the right hand side of it (as viewed).
The 'low-impedance output transistors' is probably just a comment that they are decent sized transistors.

The capacitors are the two large tubular components and are pcb mounted as would be expected.

The 'connected directly the speaker terminals, rather than wired' comment just relates to the output sockets being pcb mounted also, rather than connected with separate wires.

As I said looks well built, nothing to worry about :)

:exactly:

[webby]

You'd think a different league as there is a big price difference - an 8000s new in todays money would be the thick end of £2K.



Good to know.

[the_doc735]

Keep us posted!

RE: Onkyo A-9010
Hi, I need more time to get used to it but initially I find it rather thin, treble'y, 'S' ish. Could be because this has frequency response up to 100KHz, where as my old NAD only reaches 20KHz.? The Onkyo is the UK version!

Might need to try a valve amp, any recommendations? I do like a round, warm & full sound, but I still remember my old (hi-end) turntable & cartridge gave a lot better sound in this respect, could just be my imagination though? (placebo?). However, I love the sheer convenience of the .mp3's etc. All my collection on a memory stick! ~ but would love a warmer/fuller sound!!

I want my cake AND to eat it!

[Macca]

Nah, it's because the NAD is a better amplifier.

[the_doc735]

Nah, it's because the NAD is a better amplifier.

:uhho::sofa::oops:

[the_doc735]

...what would a NAD 3020i cost new today?

[walpurgis]

...what would a NAD 3020i cost new today?

The 3020i hasn't been made for many years.

Consider the amp recommendations I made earlier in this thread. The NAD was OK at it's price and at the time, but it was basically a decent 'starter' amplifier and can easily be bettered (at more cost).

[RichB]

Nah, it's because the NAD is a better amplifier.

Good to see you moving with the times Macca :lol:

[hifi_dave]

The NAD was popular because it sounded OK and was cheap. We used to sell it as part of our starter system - Rega, NAD 3020, Heybrook HB1. Then the Creek 4040 came along at the same price - it sounded better and was UK made. This really took off and we had trouble meeting the demand.

I think Paul needs to do some listening in various dealers before splashing the cash again.

[the_doc735]

Consider the amp recommendations I made earlier in this thread.

what number post was it in this thread please, I can't seem to find it?

[Macca]

Good to see you moving with the times Macca :lol:

LOL my mate still runs one with the Tannoy 'Sixes', and a Kenwood CD player the size of an early 'Eighties VHS machine. System is a Richer Sound special from 30 years ago, all works fine, and amazes me how good it is every time I hear it.

I reckon a NAD 3020 if sold new today would be about £350?

[the_doc735]

I think Paul needs to do some listening in various dealers before splashing the cash again.

Difficult if not impossible to find second hand hi fi shops with good quality gear that has lost some value over the years. Most just sell new stuff, at new prices. I suppose my NAD would have been considerably more expensive when it was new? But no one seems to remember what they cost new (?) so it's all guess work! If I can get used gear that cost £1000 when new for £200 now ~ I'm happy! however, some used gear seems stubbornly anti-depreciation in terms of cold hard cash! Bargains the name, bargains the game.

It's fine ~ honestly! Stay Cool ! ~ I can get my money back on this stuff if I so wish, so there's no problem!

[Macca]

NAD 3020, 3020i, 3020e were all around the £90 mark back in 1989.

[WAD62]

I wonder how the Onkyo would compare to my 20 year old Audiolab 8000S which I leave on 24/7; I fear it's going to die one day and I need to consider what I'd replace it with. Or is the 8000S in a different league?
The 8000S shouldn't be left on 24/7...:eek:

I know this to my cost, as when mine first 'burned out' the 'AudioCellar' (audiolab fixer and upgrader) told me that they run too hot for 24/7, something about the PCB burning out due its location...I used to leave mine on 24/7...it's been traded in for spares now, in part exchange for a pair of refurbished UK monoblocks, which run much cooler and can be left on 24/7, but I don't want to spend that much on electricity...;)

[struth]

It was just under £80 new in 1978

[walpurgis]

what number post was it in this thread please, I can't seem to find it?

My post seems to have disappeared. Strange.

[the_doc735]

NAD 3020, 3020i, 3020e were all around the £90 mark back in 1989.

:interesting:

[the_doc735]

It was just under £80 new in 1978

:interesting:

[the_doc735]

My post seems to have disappeared. Strange.

:scratch:

[the_doc735]

OK ~ 24 hours in and the A9010 is just starting to make sense. I definitely need more time to assess this piece of kit. My initial comment was made on that initial listening experience. It seems 'better' today, I'm getting used to it slowly. The treble'y, 'S'ish sound I tried to describe is actual those higher frequencies coming through; good example, cymbals! It's certainly a lot clearer, which I thought was too treble'y to begin with. What I am actually hearing is more of the music, the music's higher frequencies. This A9010 lets more of that sound through than the old NAD ever did, and my ears aren't perfect anymore! (been in too many groups as a teenager!). In a way I had to stop comparing and start listening, really listening and once I re-adjusted the sub to cope with the new amp with a line out instead of a pre-out (luckily the sub has many adjustments available) everything slowly got a little better and a little sharper. I think this trend will continue for a while now.

So, no amazing sound revelations for me, no WOW factor! But then again it takes a lot to impress - at my age! No ~ "hey guys this is great, get one now". I must have forgotten what higher frequencies actually sound like, maybe the old NAD needs a service?

[Arkless Electronics]

The 8000S shouldn't be left on 24/7...:eek:

I know this to my cost, as when mine first 'burned out' the 'AudioCellar' (audiolab fixer and upgrader) told me that they run too hot for 24/7, something about the PCB burning out due its location...I used to leave mine on 24/7...it's been traded in for spares now, in part exchange for a pair of refurbished UK monoblocks, which run much cooler and can be left on 24/7, but I don't want to spend that much on electricity...;)

I strongly recommend not leaving any hi fi gear on 24/7! Even if the manufacturer says it's OK. It is not possible to specifically design something to be left permanently on and a much shorter service life will be the result.

[the_doc735]

....good listen this evening to the A-9010 and it is still improving! ~ not sure if it needs burning in at all? Slowly becoming more impressed as time passes by! Quickly switched back to the NAD and that HAS by comparison now started to sound muddier, duller, with less well defined highs (maybe needs some parts?). I was surprised by the low new 3020i prices you guys quoted, I thought it was much more expensive than that! Still ~ there you go!

Another amp that plenty are raving about is the Arcam FMJ A19 (double the price of the A9010!), apparently has a warmer sweeter sonic edge which may well suit my ear better? The competition is: the Rotel RA-11, Cambridge Audio’s Azur 651A, & Myryad’s Z142 & Cambridge CXA60.

Anyone had any experience of these amps please? These should still be in the shops to test as well ~ (just need a push in a transit wheelchair)!

:popcorn:

[Nick_G]

It may be worth trying a TOTL Japanese amp from the late 80s or early 90s. e.g. Sony ES, Pioneer Elite, Kenwood, Denon, Sansui - that sort of thing. They turn up on eBay pretty regularly and some can be had for £2-300 if you're lucky. If you don't like it you can always resell it without too much of a loss (hopefully).

I personally use a JVC AX-Z1010TN from the late 80s and it's fantastic. It has a built-in DAC (superb) and apparently a very good phono stage too. It certainly beats the Rotel RA-04 I used previously.

[the_doc735]

It may be worth trying a TOTL Japanese amp from the late 80s or early 90s. e.g. Sony ES, Pioneer Elite, Kenwood, Denon, Sansui - that sort of thing. They turn up on eBay pretty regularly and some can be had for £2-300 if you're lucky. If you don't like it you can always resell it without too much of a loss (hopefully).

I personally use a JVC AX-Z1010TN from the late 80s and it's fantastic. It has a built-in DAC (superb) and apparently a very good phono stage too. It certainly beats the Rotel RA-04 I used previously.

;):cheers:

[Idlewithnodrive]

Sound per pound, I don't think you can beat the old current dumping Quad gear. Quad still support and service them for very reasonable prices too :)

[the_doc735]

Sound per pound, I don't think you can beat the old current dumping Quad gear. Quad still support and service them for very reasonable prices too :)

:cheers:

[the_doc735]

latest update:

Onkyo A-9010 amp + Tacima CS947
Tannoy DC6T Speakers
Tannoy TS10 Subwoofer + Tacima CS947
sennheiser HD 558 headset
Arcam Miniblink DAC + iFI iPOWER
HP Pavilion G6* - 2382sa D0Y14EA#ABU + Creative BT-D1 [+ Azio BTD-V401]
[*using onboard battery for music listening].

[the_doc735]

....managed to get someone to take/push me to a local hifi shop.

Well, they had stuff up to £20,000! :drool:

Anyway I told them what I had and what I liked. Plus how much I was willing to send. They didn't have any decent second hand stuff that fitted the bill (as I suspected!). Still, spoilt for choice though :eek:

They really really wanted to sell me something and had no intention of letting me go empty handed, and they wanted to extract maximum cash from my handbag! i.e. spending more is better!! (spend spend spend!). Anyway, listened to quite a wide range of amps with everything else the same. They had special "listening rooms" to boot! Needless to say in a place like that I was soon over budget and they were plying me with credit! I couldn't make my mind up though and wanted to return for a second listen just to be sure, but the salesman was having none of it!! He said I could return the goods for an alternative if it didn't sound right at home or a credit note for future use (only in their shop though). He asked me to step back into the main shop and have a coffee and said that I could continue to listen for as long as I liked with one set of headphones rather than speakers. They didn't have my speakers but had some of similar spec. and price in the special room. I suppose they get people who can't make their mind up all the time in a place like that? In the end I opted for the Arcam FMJ-A19 (a bit over budget) and I'm having one delivered on Monday. At least I know what it sounds like in the shop! :rolleyes:

[DSJR]

If the shop all but wouldn't let you out without buying something, I'd have run for the hills!!!!!!!

I speak with many decades' experience AS a dealer staff member and I was extremely lucky never to have had commission based pay packets to force my hand. Things have changed now though as the domestic industry has collapsed, footfall into the stores is tiny compared to the best of 'my day' and I know a few people running businesses from home now to minimise overheads which can be huge, especially if they don't have a rich business partner or parent able to sink thousands into the business.

I come from the old school where it's best to build a trusting relationship with the customer first. For most of my early times in the store, I used to be good at planting seeds for the customer to think about later and I NEVER tried to force a sale there and then. I was lucky, or people liked me, as they usually came back having thought about what they'd heard and bought from me later. In later years, I was able to guide and advise with better focus and this sort-of lives on with me pestering the forums, as the 'need to help' never really abates. I have made some lasting friends of decades' standing due to this, they having started out as mere 'customers.'

Modern Arcams are generally reliable and designed to sound safe as houses into a wide range of gear and this one will be no exception. I just hope the sonic performance keeps you entertained for long enough - you should feel as if you want to listen for hours and hours at a time, playing record after CD after record, if you see what I mean...

[Macca]

'A man doesn't walk onto the lot unless he wants to buy. Do you think he came in just to get out of the rain?'

Blake: Glengarry Glenross

[jandl100]

OMG

The dealer from hell.
Sorry to be blunt, but you should have been strong and just walked out.

[Simon_LDT]

Nothing wrong with Arcam amps. My P1's are really great. Some may say they're too 'polite' or 'laid back' but for me they are just so easy to listen to, no harshness at all and paired with my XTZ speakers (ribbon tweeters) the level of detail is superb.

Still, never should anyone feel so pressured into buying. Were you not completely happy with the Onkyo then?

[the_doc735]

If the shop all but wouldn't let you out without buying something, I'd have run for the hills!!!!!!!

I speak with many decades' experience AS a dealer staff member and I was extremely lucky never to have had commission based pay packets to force my hand. Things have changed now though as the domestic industry has collapsed, footfall into the stores is tiny compared to the best of 'my day' and I know a few people running businesses from home now to minimise overheads which can be huge, especially if they don't have a rich business partner or parent able to sink thousands into the business.

I come from the old school where it's best to build a trusting relationship with the customer first. For most of my early times in the store, I used to be good at planting seeds for the customer to think about later and I NEVER tried to force a sale there and then. I was lucky, or people liked me, as they usually came back having thought about what they'd heard and bought from me later. In later years, I was able to guide and advise with better focus and this sort-of lives on with me pestering the forums, as the 'need to help' never really abates. I have made some lasting friends of decades' standing due to this, they having started out as mere 'customers.'

Modern Arcams are generally reliable and designed to sound safe as houses into a wide range of gear and this one will be no exception. I just hope the sonic performance keeps you entertained for long enough - you should feel as if you want to listen for hours and hours at a time, playing record after CD after record, if you see what I mean...

GOOD COMMENTS! ~ worth remembering!

[the_doc735]

'A man doesn't walk onto the lot unless he wants to buy. Do you think he came in just to get out of the rain?'

Blake: Glengarry Glenross

:lolsign:

[the_doc735]

OMG

The dealer from hell.
Sorry to be blunt, but you should have been strong and just walked out.

Yes, I think I must have really wanted to buy, otherwise I would have done! Think he was quite humorous actually.

[the_doc735]

Nothing wrong with Arcam amps. My P1's are really great. Some may say they're too 'polite' or 'laid back' but for me they are just so easy to listen to, no harshness at all and paired with my XTZ speakers (ribbon tweeters) the level of detail is superb.

Still, never should anyone feel so pressured into buying. Were you not completely happy with the Onkyo then?

I managed to blag the demo one for £100 less!! The Onkyo is still growing on me day by day; it is really good, no distortion or anything, nice and clean all the way up the dial, however - overall I think it is a little too attacking for me personally, this Arcam just sounded a bit sweeter and that's what I like without it costing the Earth! I am usually impossible to sell to unless I just need a bit of encouragement. Once I get sorted I am the kind of person that will stick with things for donkeys years and keep on repairing them forever! Only unexpected circumstances change this!

[the_doc735]

this ARCAM shows its build quality compared to both the NAD & Onkyo. NAD had the flimsy plastic front and knobs and the Onkyo was a large lite weight tinny box! The ARCAM IS VERY Solid, compact & heavy, controls are very precise/definite. :cool:

[Simon_LDT]

this ARCAM shows its build quality compared to both the NAD & Onkyo. NAD had the flimsy plastic front and knobs and the Onkyo was a large lite weight tinny box! The ARCAM IS VERY Solid, compact & heavy, controls are very precise/definite. :cool:

How's it sounding?

[Floyddroid]

I agree, nowt the matter with the Arcam but I can't help thinking you may have got a little more for your money elsewhere. As Simon asked above "how's it sounding? If it's doing it for you that is the most important thing.

[danilo]

Nothing wrong with Arcam amps.


My experiences Differ Bought an Arcam D290 And it's matching Power amp unit... ~1995.
Salesman Sed these are Great! To Power my pore old Tannoys.
Iffy sounds from first plug in.. but Having spent large-ish :rolleyes:
I foolishly thought My Brain merely needed to adapt.
I lived with the pair for ~10 years. Son always said there was something Off with them.
Kids.. Who listens to them ?

A few years back I inserted a DIY simple/stoopid Lm3886 Chip Amp in place of the Arcams.
Hey! I had just built it so I had to try it .
Epiphany time.
The fabled night and day improvement; in Soundstaging (now deep and wide whereas the Arcams delivered almost Zero).. Crispy Detailed highs and Rock solid Bass.
Arcams are in a closet Unlikely to ever be used by Me again.
Armed with a bit more knowledge these days I finally realised that their circuit design was/is in a word 'Inept'.
Decent parts badly implemented.

Caveat Emptor Kids

[skimminstones]

....good listen this evening to the A-9010 and it is still improving! ~ not sure if it needs burning in at all? Slowly becoming more impressed as time passes by! Quickly switched back to the NAD and that HAS by comparison now started to sound muddier, duller, with less well defined highs (maybe needs some parts?). I was surprised by the low new 3020i prices you guys quoted, I thought it was much more expensive than that! Still ~ there you go!

Another amp that plenty are raving about is the Arcam FMJ A19 (double the price of the A9010!), apparently has a warmer sweeter sonic edge which may well suit my ear better? The competition is: the Rotel RA-11, Cambridge Audio’s Azur 651A, & Myryad’s Z142 & Cambridge CXA60.

Anyone had any experience of these amps please? These should still be in the shops to test as well ~ (just need a push in a transit wheelchair)!

:popcorn:

I had a NAD C320BEE amp and last year changed to a Primare i21 i found on ebay for £200 i think it was. I was the same as you when i went back to the NAD to compare. The NAD sounded very muffled in comparison.

[the_doc735]

How's it sounding?

very precise, good imaging, good timing, good spatiality, often can't tell where the music is coming from i.e. not aware of the speakers!! Bass Quite 'thin' needs a lot more work with the sub settings to get a big well rounded feel. Compared to the others, needs the max vol on the laptop and the amp vol to be well round the dial before you hear anything decent; it easily causes the speakers to vibrate in the lower ranges (might help if I put the 'spikes' & cups on?). Overall, seems like a quality sound.

[the_doc735]

I can't help thinking you may have got a little more for your money elsewhere.

Please DO tell? Much appreciated.....

[the_doc735]

My experiences Differ Bought an Arcam D290 And it's matching Power amp unit... ~1995.
Salesman Sed these are Great! To Power my pore old Tannoys.
Iffy sounds from first plug in.. but Having spent large-ish :rolleyes:
I foolishly thought My Brain merely needed to adapt.
I lived with the pair for ~10 years. Son always said there was something Off with them.
Kids.. Who listens to them ?

A few years back I inserted a DIY simple/stoopid Lm3886 Chip Amp in place of the Arcams.
Hey! I had just built it so I had to try it .
Epiphany time.
The fabled night and day improvement; in Soundstaging (now deep and wide whereas the Arcams delivered almost Zero).. Crispy Detailed highs and Rock solid Bass.
Arcams are in a closet Unlikely to ever be used by Me again.
Armed with a bit more knowledge these days I finally realised that their circuit design was/is in a word 'Inept'.
Decent parts badly implemented.

Caveat Emptor Kids

...do you think it could be your listening environment that was not best suited to the Arcam? Rooms make a lot of difference, that's one reason why I am if'fy about testing in shops coz it's never the same as at home!!! I like building electronic stuff too! My Arcam has a deep and wide soundstage with detailed highs but bass is a bit economical and needs good sized woofers or a decent sub. I think arcam's circuit design has improved these days though. I like the 'tight' sound and the ability to bring in the bass as needed. Don't like immediate, loud, floppy, woolly bass anyway, prefer tight bass and I can achieve this with the Acram and a bit of sound engineering.

[the_doc735]

I had a NAD C320BEE amp and last year changed to a Primare i21 i found on ebay for £200 i think it was. I was the same as you when i went back to the NAD to compare. The NAD sounded very muffled in comparison.

:interesting:

[the_doc735]

I can't help thinking you may have got a little more for your money elsewhere.

Please DO tell? Much appreciated.....

No reply?

Genuine & honest question, I would appreciate it if you could say what you think may have been a better choice please?