Pro-Ject VC-S (RCM)

[Qwin]

I don't know if anyone else has done this, but anyway, I just thought I would post this link to Pro-Jects new Record Cleaning Machine.
Which at a SRP of £299 is a very keen price.

https://www.henleydesigns.co.uk/VCS-Record-Cleaner-Announced-c767

[rikardo1979]

I don't know if anyone else has done this, but anyway, I just thought I would post this link to Pro-Jects new Record Cleaning Machine.
Which at a SRP of £299 is a very keen price.

https://www.henleydesigns.co.uk/VCS-Record-Cleaner-Announced-c767

I do have this on order :D but just waiting for new batch as the first released one was gone faster than hot bread rolls :unfair:
And I even managed to get a very, very good deal on it from my local dealer :ner:

[Qwin]

I would think some of the Web box shifters will be knocking a few quid off, but full price is not bad and Pro-Ject gear is always well made.
You will have to give us a review when yours comes through.
I already have an Okki Nokki otherwise this would have been on my shopping list.
I like the window, so you can see how full the tank is.

[Jason P]

I do have this on order :D but just waiting for new batch as the first released one was gone faster than hot bread rolls :unfair:
And I even managed to get a very, very good deal on it from my local dealer :ner:

Who's your local dealer, and how good a deal? Interested in getting one but would rather support a local shop than a box shifter, and if there's a deal to be had...

[rikardo1979]

I would think some of the Web box shifters will be knocking a few quid off, but full price is not bad and Pro-Ject gear is always well made.
You will have to give us a review when yours comes through.
I already have an Okki Nokki otherwise this would have been on my shopping list.
I like the window, so you can see how full the tank is.

it is more than a bit of the price :D
Actually I had two offers
1st one included this machine for FREE :drool:
2nd offer is £100 off

There is more behind this and would not go into much detail here for certain reasons :) and as I would like to respect my local dealer ;)

But if someone will not make a review before I get it than I may do some short simple one

[rikardo1979]

Who's your local dealer, and how good a deal? Interested in getting one but would rather support a local shop than a box shifter, and if there's a deal to be had...

to get this there is a little catch :D I need to spend some big £££

[Qwin]

If you were spending on the other kit anyway, that's what I call a deal, a freebie that is actually worth taking

"Support a local shop" +1
I do this where I can, but we are desperately short of good dealers in the North East.
The last two bits of new kit I bought, couldn't be found within 100miles. Plenty of people willing to get them in to order, but no one had stock I could go and listen to, and I'm not talking exotic rare stuff. If you want anything other than Linn or Naim, forget it.

[rikardo1979]

If you were spending on the other kit anyway, that's what I call a deal, a freebie that is actually worth taking

"Support a local shop" +1
I do this where I can, but we are desperately short of good dealers in the North East.
The last two bits of new kit I bought, couldn't be found within 100miles. Plenty of people willing to get them in to order, but no one had stock I could go and listen to, and I'm not talking exotic rare stuff. If you want anything other than Linn or Naim, forget it.

yup ;)
I am after new speakers and some amp. I have also bought new AV receiver recently, Pioneer SC-LX59, Clearaudio Concept MM+Clearaudio PhonoNano, pair of Chord Epic Twin, Chord C-Line interconnects, and some more little bits...all in same place
So yes, I prefer to support locals. I could get that cable £80 cheaper from online, but I get it from him. And at the end he knocks off £30 of that as well :)
So we are happy, his business is growing...happy days ;)

[Simon_LDT]

Got one of these on order (was too slow and initial batch sold out where I ordered from) but should hopefully have it sometime late next week.

In the meantime, I've purchased some distilled water (2L, from APC Pure) to get me going. Does anybody know if/what I need to distribute it over the record once I've mixed the solution and water (squeezy type bottle?). From the videos I've seen, it looks like people are using the included bottle...

[Qwin]

I use the little squeezy bottles with the tube that has a swan neck, you can pick em up from tattoo supply shops and they are on the Bay in various sizes.

[rikardo1979]

I use the little squeezy bottles with the tube that has a swan neck, you can pick em up from tattoo supply shops and they are on the Bay in various sizes.
tbis is what I use

[Simon_LDT]

I use the little squeezy bottles with the tube that has a swan neck, you can pick em up from tattoo supply shops and they are on the Bay in various sizes.

Like this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008ASY406/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=569136327&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00E9M5PWI&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=19GQZW2K7BQH4WFFMHG8

[rikardo1979]

Like this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008ASY406/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=569136327&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00E9M5PWI&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=19GQZW2K7BQH4WFFMHG8
yup :) exactly

[WAD62]

Mine arrived on Monday, unfortunately as it's my first RCM I'm unable to make any useful comparisons :eyebrows:

Seems pretty robust, nice big chunky switches, and not overly large.

One small thing to be aware of is that the vacuum arm and socket fitting is rather tight, so worth putting a little oil on the inside, or it can get stuck :doh:

Vacuum is very strong, one rotation and the side is dry...

Most of my vinyl is old and dirty, pre '90 (switched to CD late 80s), so I am getting superb results, this really has made it listen-able again...a very satisfying process :)

[rikardo1979]

Mine arrived on Monday, unfortunately as it's my first RCM I'm unable to make any useful comparisons :eyebrows:

Seems pretty robust, nice big chunky switches, and not overly large.

One small thing to be aware of is that the vacuum arm and socket fitting is rather tight, so worth putting a little oil on the inside, or it can get stuck :doh:

Vacuum is very strong, one rotation and the side is dry...

Most of my vinyl is old and dirty, pre '90 (switched to CD late 80s), so I am getting superb results, this really has made it listen-able again...a very satisfying process :)

great stuff, really pleased to her this. I can wait when my arrive

[Qwin]

Like this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008ASY406/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=569136327&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00E9M5PWI&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=19GQZW2K7BQH4WFFMHG8

+1 That's them.

[WAD62]

+1 That's them.

Ordered one too...it'll reduce my fluid consumption rate somewhat ;)

[daytona600]

I don't know if anyone else has done this, but anyway, I just thought I would post this link to Pro-Jects new Record Cleaning Machine.
Which at a SRP of £299 is a very keen price.

https://www.henleydesigns.co.uk/VCS-Record-Cleaner-Announced-c767

.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?42525-Now-the-world-leader-in-Turntables-Pro-Ject-presents-a-RCM&highlight=PRO-JECT

[kininigin]

Mine arrived on Monday, unfortunately as it's my first RCM I'm unable to make any useful comparisons :eyebrows:

Seems pretty robust, nice big chunky switches, and not overly large.

One small thing to be aware of is that the vacuum arm and socket fitting is rather tight, so worth putting a little oil on the inside, or it can get stuck :doh:


Had mine for over a week,unfortunately i've only used it to clean about 4 records as the arm got stuck on the socket! In trying to free it up i have actualy snapped the vacuum tube. I'm waiting for a replacement to be sent to me. So as Will says,definitely use some form of lubrication as it is a very tight fit,too tight i would say. They should probably be shipped with something for the issue.

Before i broke mine in a fit of rage however,it did work rather well.

[kininigin]

Oh if anyone has any ideas on how to remove this broken arm piece from the socket,i'm all ears :doh:

I have tried using a pair of grips with no success.

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/kininigin/IMG_20160215_184342215_zps8wn0odqb.jpg (http://s1135.photobucket.com/user/kininigin/media/IMG_20160215_184342215_zps8wn0odqb.jpg.html)

[walpurgis]

Oh if anyone has any ideas on how to remove this broken arm piece from the socket,i'm all ears :doh:

Is it secured by a nut underneath? It can't be too difficult to deal with.

[rikardo1979]

Oh if anyone has any ideas on how to remove this broken arm piece from the socket,i'm all ears :doh:

I have tried using a pair of grips with no success.

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/kininigin/IMG_20160215_184342215_zps8wn0odqb.jpg (http://s1135.photobucket.com/user/kininigin/media/IMG_20160215_184342215_zps8wn0odqb.jpg.html)

extreme cool down, use liquid nitrogen in spray

[kininigin]

Is it secured by a nut underneath? It can't be too difficult to deal with.

There is no nut to undo Geoff,it should just normally lift up and off but i'm unable to move it in any direction and i'm using alot of force.


extreme cool down, use liquid nitrogen in spray

Really? Didn't even know you could get that. Is that not a bit extreme? Excuse my ignorance if not.

[rikardo1979]

There is no nut to undo Geoff,it should just normally lift up and off but i'm unable to move it in any direction and i'm using alot of force.



Really? Didn't even know you could get that. Is that not a bit extreme? Excuse my ignorance if not.

plumbers using these freezing sprays when need to fix something without draining whole system. like changing regulator on radiator. you just freeze the water in inlet pipe, so it creates plunge
Look for something like Arctic Spray (http://goo.gl/G0KlBF)
It may just work as the molecules shrink a bit in mettal, and that may be just enough to get it out.
If you have it out, I would suggest very fine sandpaper and take a tiny bit down of the pipe with it

[walpurgis]

extreme cool down, use liquid nitrogen in spray

If it is an interference fit that could work.

One way of achieving the cooling, would be to buy a compressed air 'air duster' aerosol and use it upside down. The gas comes out as an extremely cold liquid, capable of freezing items. So protect your fingers!! I'd mask off the top plate surrounding the pillar first, otherwise it may contract too and grip the bit you're removing.

Air dusters can be bought from Maplins I believe or on eBay.

It's worth a try.

[walpurgis]

plumbers using these freezing sprays

That's right. I'd forgotten about those. :)

[struth]

used to use those on components back in the day.... they were regularly sprayed down the crack of apprentices bums too:D

[kininigin]

plumbers using these freezing sprays when need to fix something without draining whole system. like changing regulator on radiator. you just freeze the water in inlet pipe, so it creates plunge
Look for something like Arctic Spray (http://goo.gl/G0KlBF)
It may just work as the molecules shrink a bit in mettal, and that may be just enough to get it out.
If you have it out, I would suggest very fine sandpaper and take a tiny bit down of the pipe with it

Haha of course,i'm ashamed to say i work in plumbing and heating so i should know exactly what you are talking about :doh: :lol: To be fair though,we have never used them so it slipped my mind. That's my excuse and i'm sticking with it :D


If it is an interference fit that could work.

One way of achieving the cooling, would be to buy a compressed air 'air duster' aerosol and use it upside down. The gas comes out as an extremely cold liquid, capable of freezing items. So protect your fingers!! I'd mask off the top plate surrounding the pillar first, otherwise it may contract too and grip the bit you're removing.

Air dusters can be bought from Maplins I believe or on eBay.

It's worth a try.

Not a bad shout,i have used them before on an old dusty pc i wanted to clean and have noticed that effect. May even still have a can of it about somewhere. Thanks for the suggestions guys,much appreciated.

[walpurgis]

'We aim to please' :D

[mikeyb]

If it's that new I'd send it back for replacement as its faulty.

[Simon_LDT]

That's quite alarming. In the videos they make it look easy to lift and move the arm.

[Floyddroid]

Yes indeed. I use an Okki Nokki too. I part own it with Virkon. This new Project does look awfully good though and at that price i may well consider one. I am very interested to get some views on the matter.

[Floyddroid]

Send the bugger back!
Oh if anyone has any ideas on how to remove this broken arm piece from the socket,i'm all ears :doh:

I have tried using a pair of grips with no success.

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m639/kininigin/IMG_20160215_184342215_zps8wn0odqb.jpg (http://s1135.photobucket.com/user/kininigin/media/IMG_20160215_184342215_zps8wn0odqb.jpg.html)

[doodoos]

I'm interested too but will wait for more feedback on any developing issues before deciding.

[Qwin]

Send it back.

Cooling/heating rarely works as you shrink/expand both parts.
The inner component ideally wants to shrink, but there will be so much heat transfer through the alloy that the outer part will shrink with it.
Because the outside part is a larger diameter it will probably shrink by a larger amount than the inner and grip tighter.
If they were different materials you might stand a chance due to differential expansion rates.

If the alloy bind is as tight as you say, it may take extreme force to shift it and you may cause more damage trying to remove it, so send it back.

[kininigin]

I was hoping i wouldn't have to send it back as it's a right pain in the arse for me to do that :rolleyes:

I'm going to try a couple more times trying to free it and if i can't then it will have to go back i guess.

I hear what you are saying Ken and it did cross my mind on how you would just shrink the inner piece. I

[WAD62]

Had mine for over a week,unfortunately i've only used it to clean about 4 records as the arm got stuck on the socket! In trying to free it up i have actualy snapped the vacuum tube. I'm waiting for a replacement to be sent to me. So as Will says,definitely use some form of lubrication as it is a very tight fit,too tight i would say. They should probably be shipped with something for the issue.

Before i broke mine in a fit of rage however,it did work rather well.

I can certainly empathise Darren (I'm having a hot sweat flashback right now!), I was about 2 yanks away from where you ended...I just managed to calm myself in time :doh:

When it's relatively new I suspect the finish of the arm metal is a little rough, and as it's a snug fit any slight misalignment when inserting it can get it stuck.

It's a bit like when 2 beer glasses get stuck together...Try to ensure the 2 pieces are completely aligned on a vertical axis with a bit of light tapping with a hammer from the side, and get some WD40 in there if you can, with patience it'll come free...I hope :)

It's a case of the harder you pull the harder it'll stick...once free I used some light bike chain oil on both pieces, then proceeded to almost 're-tap' them, rotating back and forth etc. The joint has far less friction now

Given that we've both had this problem they should at least consider changing the 'finish' on the connecting components...hopefully they'll replace yours FOC when you eventually get it free...good luck :)

[Qwin]

If you applied mild heat to the outer, in theory this should expand more than the inner, even better if you could grip the inner in a vice to draw away any heat from it.
A hot air paint stripper would probably be enough, but I wouldn't like to try this in the unit as there may be plastic parts attached, only if you could remove the parts.
You could try a tuning fork style ball joint separator between the shoulders on the two parts and lift it rather than twist it off, may work.

[CageyH]

Wow, that is a shame that there is such a problem. It looks like such a good prospect, so probably needs to be assembled with some grease or something.

I am glad I live on mainland Europe as you can get a brand new Okki Nokki Mk2 for £350. This just works, and there are none of these problems.

I really hope you get it fixed.
I would be careful about using heat, but "plumbers mate" down the centre of the pipe may do enough.
I would consider contacting the supplier first though, as you don't want to damage it any more.

[kininigin]

I have contacted the supplier and he has agreed to take it back and send a replacement. So all should end well. I didn't really feel too comfortable using extreme heat or cooling to remove it to be honest.

[Inferno133]

Mine arrived today after nearly a months wait for new stock. First impressions are good though won't set it up properly till the weekend. Never thought I'd justify a RCM to be honest when I started collecting vinyl again last year but having zapped barcodes galore on the new discogs app last weekend and discovered/remembered how much some of the stuff I've bought is worth (see my welcome post).

And so I decided not to cancel the order and, yeah, it arrived today. Speaking to Henley this afternoon some things are different on this new batch. The wash it fluid is for normal AND shellac 78s it says on the label now plus there's a little pouch of grease included to grease the vacuum arm (seems like they've listened to criticisms or realised the issue described on here and other forums). Also the mixing levels have changed, it's not 1:5 anymore it states 1:10-1:20!!! According to Henley this is because Customs were treating them as hazardous so they've had to change the make up of the liquid.

[rikardo1979]

Same as Dave @Inferno133 mentioned above.
I was not able to post here on forum for reasons so we were talking a lot over PM's
I have mentioned to ProJect that the new design of the clap seals is bad and I have WIP reverting all back to original design as it was meant.
Removing the rubbery mats and I go to put rubber O-ring back. So this way no moisture is going to be sucked into it and than on labels!
I have picked the wrong bit from work today which is too thick so can not apply it just yet :) Going to take the clamps with me to work tomorrow so I can find right thickness for it and than I glue it back

http://snag.gy/siUXF.jpghttp://snag.gy/7SAD0.jpghttp://snag.gy/gHI9W.jpghttp://snag.gy/0qUJo.jpghttp://snag.gy/3IslU.jpghttp://snag.gy/KXmRX.jpghttp://snag.gy/UQ0Xn.jpg

[rikardo1979]

So I take the clamps to work today and measure all
The groove is 1.9mm wide

http://snag.gy/dQfyb.jpg

so I have picked 2mm O-ring material to make a seal

http://snag.gy/6mLoB.jpg

And it seems to be just perfect for this as it fits into nicely

http://snag.gy/IuMPi.jpg

When in groove it still stick out about 0.62mm, which is perfectly enough to make a tight seal once clamped on record :)

http://snag.gy/xT09x.jpg

And the seal fits in very tightly so I think it does not even need to be glued in. But this is something I need to test in practice. In case of starting co come off a little bit of flexible glue would hold it in perfectly

http://snag.gy/45lGs.jpg


I believe the original design was a bit wrong and thats why ProJect came with idea to fit this mat instead of O-ring seals. They used way to thick material so it was coming of easily even with a lot of glue was applied underneath.

[Simon_LDT]

Got mine yesterday too. Haven't had chance to use it yet other than to test it actually powers on. The vaccum is damn loud!! No idea how it compares to other RCM's but yeah it sounds like something industrial. Build quality looks to be good. The bits of sponge rubber on the clamp discs are horrible, no wonder people have reported them to suck in moisture (Richard - I'd be very interested in a set of O-ring seals if it all works out - will pay of course!).

Anyone know the story behind the fluid change because it doesn't sit right with me. The initial batch goes out with their new formula ''wash-it'', which contains alcohol and to be mixed in a ratio of 1:5, there is then a separate with no alcohol for shellacs (can't remember the mix ratio but think it was similar). I was told by the dealer I purchased from 2 weeks ago that the delay in new stock was because of customs clearance issues because of the alcohol contained in the mix (why no problem with the 1st batch?). So now there is a completely new fluid, which must have been concocted up in a matter of hours/days which now states it contains no alcohol and to mix in a ratio of 1:10-1:20 (bit of a big gap there). So what the hell has it got in it which means it needs diluting so much more?

Don't think I'll risk using it and will buy some of ''The Right One'' instead.

[hifi_dave]

A couple of customers have had trouble with these machines, fortunately purchased else where. One has now ordered a Moth for a trouble free life.

[rikardo1979]

The vaccum is damn loud!! No idea how it compares to other RCM's but yeah it sounds like something industrial. Build quality looks to be good. The bits of sponge rubber on the clamp discs are horrible, no wonder people have reported them to suck in moisture (Richard - I'd be very interested in a set of O-ring seals if it all works out - will pay of course!).



the machine is loud, that is true as it has powerful vacuum cleaner inside, not like Loricraft or similar with little pump. But is still quieter than some competitors.
And at this price is still a bargain to buy. And the fact there is no platter used but only small clamps which covers only label part of record, that is just brilliant.
As with plater you have to keep it very clean or to have few sets of mats to place on. Once for dirty side of record and 2nd for clean :doh: so once you clean side one you replace the matt before you put it on for side 2, unless you dont care and you place it on the matt where all the dirt is ...

Regarding the seal, I am pretty confident that it will work fine and better than new rubber sponge. There is no reason why it should not.
I can make some for you but I am not sure if its worth to sending. This material is pretty cheap to buy from places like RS, Farnell, etc..

[CageyH]

I never found it to be an issue cleaning the platter of an RCM.
Everything I need is right at hand, on the RCM.

[PaulStewart]

the machine is loud, that is true as it has powerful vacuum cleaner inside, not like Loricraft or similar with little pump. But is still quieter than some competitors.

In terms of litres of air/fluid moved per minute, the Loricraft is more powerful, the reason they are quieter is that they use a precision laboratory grade pump and not one primarily designed for a wet and dry vacuum cleaner. The larger air gap with this type of machine causes a lot more noise and the lack of a vortex, as created by the nozzle/tread arrangement, mean they are, sadly, not as effective.

[rikardo1979]

In terms of litres of air/fluid moved per minute, the Loricraft is more powerful, the reason they are quieter is that they use a precision laboratory grade pump and not one primarily designed for a wet and dry vacuum cleaner. The larger air gap with this type of machine causes a lot more noise and the lack of a vortex, as created by the nozzle/tread arrangement, mean they are, sadly, not as effective.

powerful in terms of used power ;) I have not mentioned efficiency

If I have two grand to spend for Loricraft I would ...even is much slower process of cleaning with this totally different design.
I was about to build my own RCM based on Loricraft design. I have purchased a lot of parts for this little project...than VC-S came out and for me there was no point to continue building it because of the simplicity and the price of this Project RCM

[WAD62]

Same as Dave @Inferno133 mentioned above.
I was not able to post here on forum for reasons so we were talking a lot over PM's
I have mentioned to ProJect that the new design of the clap seals is bad and I have WIP reverting all back to original design as it was meant.
Removing the rubbery mats and I go to put rubber O-ring back. So this way no moisture is going to be sucked into it and than on labels!
I have picked the wrong bit from work today which is too thick so can not apply it just yet :) Going to take the clamps with me to work tomorrow so I can find right thickness for it and than I glue it back


One of my original white rubber seals came snapped, and is a constant pain as one can't get a complete seal without an incredible faff...are you replacing the original rubber seals? and if so can I have one of the original white ones...hopefully not snapped! ;)

[rikardo1979]

One of my original white rubber seals came snapped, and is a constant pain as one can't get a complete seal without an incredible faff...are you replacing the original rubber seals? and if so can I have one of the original white ones...hopefully not snapped! ;)

sorry but I have new design version with rubber foam mat instead of seals
http://snag.gy/3IslU.jpg
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?43347-Pro-Ject-VC-S-(RCM)&p=741722#post741722
...but try to get the stuff I mentioned above

[WAD62]

The larger air gap with this type of machine causes a lot more noise and the lack of a vortex, as created by the nozzle/tread arrangement, mean they are, sadly, not as effective.

It is a bit of a blunt instrument, but after one gets use to its weaknesses its fine...too big a record/vacuum gap, towards the center of the record in particular...a little weight applied to the end helps, and one probably needs about 6 revs to dry enough ;)

On the plus side I've made over 100 albums very listenable, for the first time in 25 years so its earning its corn...just another 800 or so to go :doh:

P.S. Your cleaning fluid works a treat :cool:

[WAD62]

sorry but I have new design version with rubber foam mat instead of seals

...but try to get the stuff I mentioned above

Ah I see, so your plan is to glue the replacement seal in place...the original I have would be fine if it were not snapped, the seal on the other clamp is complete and has only popped out once, but is easily replaced, the snapped one is something of a different matter :steam:

I'll see if the distributor can get hold of a replacement...

[rikardo1979]

Ah I see, so your plan is to glue the replacement seal in place...the original I have would be fine if it were not snapped, the seal on the other is complete and has only popped out once, but is easily replaced, the snapped one is something of a different matter :steam:

I'll see if the distributor can get hold of a replacement...

no, I am not going to glue it in. I dont need to as I use a smaller diameter which is perfect tight fit. So it should not come out of the groove ;)
Read my post above with all the photos

[WAD62]

Read my post above with all the photos

...will do cheers Richard! :cool:

[kininigin]

So the clamp on the 2nd batch has a new seal which is not as effective as the original seal? Have I got that right?

[rikardo1979]

So the clamp on the 2nd batch has a new seal which is not as effective as the original seal? Have I got that right?

no there is no seal but rubber foam mat which sucking all the liquid on the labels

[kininigin]

no there is no seal but rubber foam mat which sucking all the liquid on the labels

I see,turning into a right kerfuffle this isn't it!!

[CageyH]

Can't you just apply less liquid, and control where it goes, so it stays away from the clamp area?

[rikardo1979]

I see,turning into a right kerfuffle this isn't it!!

luckily the metal clamps are still same with original groove in place so reverting back to original is really easy and cheap ;)

[kininigin]

I guess,shouldn't be difficult to do,but i'd rather have a clamp that didn't absorb liquid in the first place.

[rikardo1979]

Can't you just apply less liquid, and control where it goes, so it stays away from the clamp area?

you can but why should I be careful and to be worried if not needed ;) with the proper seal you can deep it into bath if you like :D

[rikardo1979]

I guess,shouldn't be dificult to do,but i'd rather have a clamp that didn't absorb liquid in the first place.

yup, true
I see why they changed the design in last minute as so many people complain about issues with original seals. So it was an easy low cost, workaround but not proper fix of the problem.
I have tried to mention this to Project and Henley Designs Ltd but no respond so far

[kininigin]

luckily the metal clamps are still same with original groove in place so reverting back to original is really easy and cheap ;)

Maybe so,but if i'm buying a brand new machine,the last thing i should be doing is taking it apart and 'fixing' it lol Anyway i'd just be happy with a machine that doesn't get stuck after a few goes and ends up broken! Potentially wet lables is at the back of the que for me.

[Simon_LDT]

Anyone used the fluid it comes with?

[rikardo1979]

Anyone used the fluid it comes with?
not yet, i still have my own mix to finish first

[rikardo1979]

clamp works like a charm with new seal I have applied. It does not even need to be glued in as I mentioned cos is so tight. So the diameter I have choose seems to be perfect fit, better than old original seal Project used in first batch. That was way to thick which results in people complains

[rikardo1979]

another simple modification I have done to this machine today, I just chopped 1/2 or even 2/3 of the spindle leaving just 2.5 or 3 threads
It was just way to long and took ages to screw/unscrew top clamp and it was driving me crazy yesterday :brickwall: And I was doing only about 15 records :)

Be aware, with this you probably going to loose your warranty! But it does not bother me...

http://snag.gy/KXx2Y.jpg

[Simon_LDT]

Finally got around to using my RCM for the first time. Seems pretty straightforward to me. I did have some issue with appyling enough fluid but got the hang of it after a couple of LP's cleaned. Haven't tried any old and/or dirty records yet, just cleaned a couple of ''duff'' spare records (ones where I've had free replacements due to deep scratches and/or warps). I then cleaned a brand new LP I got last week. Stuck it on the tt and the sound was almost as quiet as a CD. Think I heard like 1 pop which must be on the surface. The other thing I noticed is that my felt mat did not lift off stuck to the LP when I changed sides (it usually does this all the time - which I always assumed was static charge).

Very happy so far, although the true test will be on some noisy records. I'm waiting on some of Richard's o-rings to arrive before I clean more. The included 'sponge-like' pads are really horrible. I purposely tried to avoid putting liquid near the deadwax area but a little tiny bit did get there and a little bit got sucked into the label area (thankfully barely got wet so did no real damage). Terrible supposed fix by Pro-ject.

[struth]

really dirty ones often need 2 cleans,... good to hear your getting the hang of it

[Simon_LDT]

I still can't believe how easy it is to clean records on this. Still, I haven't tried a really mucky/old LP as of yet so I could end up eating my words. I've cleaned about 10 LP's so far, all of which are new and were in my backlog queue to be listened to. So far all have been super quiet upon playback, no static and it takes literally 2 min per side to clean them. I feel sad by how much satisfaction I'm getting from seeing the vaccum suck up all the gunk and revealing shiny, clean surfaces. :D

Richard's fix for the clamp is a real winner. Cleaned 2 lp's today after fitting it and no liquid getting through like the foam stuff Pro-ject added. It was a bugger to get that stuff off, the adhesive they used was very sticky. Ended up dunking the whole clamp into a shallow bowl of 99% Isopro for about half an hour and then giving it a good scrub. It was a bit of work but managed to get it all off fine and then the o-ring just pushes into the groove with ease.

[rikardo1979]

I have cleaned about 80 lp's so far with new seals attached. Still hold perfectly tight, no gap. Acts as a continuous O-ring even is just a string pushed into the groove and no glue applied.
Once clamp is tighten on there is no way for any liquid to go through.
Another part which makes it much easier to use is that I cut big part of the threads on spindle as mentioned. I have changed the plastic plugs on the arm too, replacing them with tight rubber grommet/plugs.
No vaccum leaks which makes it more efficient.

I am happy with the results this machine gives. It is a good deal for such price

[rikardo1979]

closed grommets fitted

http://snag.gy/7Zvt1.jpghttp://snag.gy/oVymc.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eyHP%2BIO7L._SX355_.jpg

[kininigin]

Hopefully should be getting my replacement Project rcm within the next week. I may change the clamp seal if it becomes a big issue but will see if i can manage without doing that! Just want to get on with cleaning records,got a few to get through :lol:

[cube-tube]

When these come over state-side, I hope Pro-Ject has all the bugs worked out of them as I'm seriously considering buying one. I pulled out my old Spin-Clean MkII today and cleaned 30 brand new albums. It took me about 4 hours and is a bit of a pain in the arse. I used a small amount of 91% Isopropyl alcohol in regular tap water. Works like a charm, but very time consuming, and the water ended up smelling like bleach towards the end of the cleaning session, and dirty too! Think that might have been from the release agent left on the fresh vinyl. :scratch:

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v51/p1927015946-5.jpg

[rikardo1979]

When these come over state-side, I hope Pro-Ject has all the bugs worked out of them as I'm seriously considering buying one. I pulled out my old Spin-Clean MkII today and cleaned 30 brand new albums. It took me about 4 hours and is a bit of a pain in the arse. I used a small amount of 91% Isopropyl alcohol in regular tap water. Works like a charm, but very time consuming, and the water ended up smelling like bleach towards the end of the cleaning session, and dirty too! Think that might have been from the release agent left on the fresh vinyl. :scratch:

http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v51/p1927015946-5.jpg

You can buy now and let it send to me, I do all the good modification on it and I send it to you :D Happy days

Btw, do you really use tap water? :uhho: what about all the minerals after that dry in the grooves?

[kininigin]

Well my replacement arrived today and so far all is good. This time some grease is provided and now the arm moves easily and won't get stuck :doh:

The seal on the clamp is different but i haven't found it an issue after cleaning about 20 records! You would have to be putting on a lot of fluid and be pretty cack handed for it to soak into the clamp and onto your lables!

Thank you Scott (Scott Nangle Audio) for sorting in a fuss free and professional manner.

[CageyH]

Anyone with any common sense can see that grease would have been a good idea originally. ;)

[kininigin]

Anyone with any common sense can see that grease would have been a good idea originally. ;)

Indeed but common sense took a leave of absence that day!

[CageyH]

I am on about the manufacturer.
Build a tight fitting metal to metal component, and don't supply any means of lubricating it? :mental:

[cube-tube]

You can buy now and let it send to me, I do all the good modification on it and I send it to you :D Happy days

Btw, do you really use tap water? :uhho: what about all the minerals after that dry in the grooves?

I didn't even think about that part, the minerals and all. Darn! Though just as soon as I remove the records from the cleaner, I immediately dry them off with the provided towels.

Even more of a reason to buy that RCM, so I can redo all of the albums I just did, plus all of the other albums I have, PLUS all of the new albums I will have.

I just wish I knew when they were being released over here in the states. You guys are lucky that you already have them.

[CageyH]

I didn't even think about that part, the minerals and all. Darn! Though just as soon as I remove the records from the cleaner, I immediately dry them off with the provided towels.

Even more of a reason to buy that RCM, so I can redo all of the albums I just did, plus all of the other albums I have, PLUS all of the new albums I will have.

I just wish I knew when they were being released over here in the states. You guys are lucky that you already have them.

What's wrong with a Nitty Gritty? http://www.nittygrittyinc.com/index.html

[rikardo1979]

Don't think that grease is necessary. I do not use it and is smooth. If no force or pressure is use on the arm it should be fine. I just move it lightly into the position, turn on vac and it get lock into position. Than turn off vac and lift it lightly as the vac is slowing down


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC1MFBEEYOo

[kininigin]

I am on about the manufacturer.
Build a tight fitting metal to metal component, and don't supply any means of lubricating it? :mental:

Ahh i see,regardless i should have known that it would need some lubrication but yeah bit of an oversight on their part!

[kininigin]

Don't think that grease is necessary. I do not use it and is smooth. If no force or pressure is use on the arm it should be fine. I just move it lightly into the position, turn on vac and it get lock into position. Than turn off vac and lift it lightly as the vac is slowing down


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC1MFBEEYOo

Well without the grease i initially got to about 4 records till it got stuck.Even before it got stuck it was very tight and not smooth! With the grease i have done about 30 records with no issues,so i would certainly use the grease if you get this machine,why take the risk by not using it?

[cube-tube]

What's wrong with a Nitty Gritty? http://www.nittygrittyinc.com/index.html

Price mainly. Then again, I just found the VC-S "on order" at a US retailer, and they have it priced at $500. That's a $100 more than what it's supposed to be!

[Woodhead]

I've recently started using the Pro-Ject VCS and find it very good, except for heat generated at the label clamps.

I just did an hour session (turning motor off when not needed) and the metal became very hot to the touch. A thermometer measured it at 94ºf. Is anybody else experiencing this, or maybe I've got a faulty unit? It would seem that heat generated at the motor conducts up the spindle to the metal plates of the label clamp. The rubberised foam parts of the label clamps will be holding some of the heat back from the vinyl, but nevertheless there's a lot of heat in the central area.

Disturbingly records come off it with a noticeable bow from the edge to the centre. If I hold one by the edges and push the centre with a thumb the concave bow pops into the opposite direction and settles there, if that makes sense? I can repeatedly "pop" the centre in or out like this and the record stays in that concave shape. I find that after putting the LP in old Knosti rack for 10 minutes everything goes back to normal and the record is flat again. I guess that as the LP cools this concave shape disappears.

So, I wonder if anyone else has experienced a hot VCS?
And does anyone know if this temporary heating of the vinyl is something to be concerned about?
I'll hang off cleaning anything valuable for now!

[Simon_LDT]

I haven't noticed any heat build-up on mine, but then I usually only clean a handful of LP's at a time.

[Idlewithnodrive]

I've recently started using the Pro-Ject VCS and find it very good, except for heat generated at the label clamps.

I just did an hour session (turning motor off when not needed) and the metal became very hot to the touch. A thermometer measured it at 94ºf. Is anybody else experiencing this, or maybe I've got a faulty unit? It would seem that heat generated at the motor conducts up the spindle to the metal plates of the label clamp. The rubberised foam parts of the label clamps will be holding some of the heat back from the vinyl, but nevertheless there's a lot of heat in the central area.

Disturbingly records come off it with a noticeable bow from the edge to the centre. If I hold one by the edges and push the centre with a thumb the concave bow pops into the opposite direction and settles there, if that makes sense? I can repeatedly "pop" the centre in or out like this and the record stays in that concave shape. I find that after putting the LP in old Knosti rack for 10 minutes everything goes back to normal and the record is flat again. I guess that as the LP cools this concave shape disappears.

So, I wonder if anyone else has experienced a hot VCS?
And does anyone know if this temporary heating of the vinyl is something to be concerned about?
I'll hang off cleaning anything valuable for now!

Really ? That HAS to be wrong. No such issues with my OK MkII.

[Woodhead]

Thanks for the feedback from other users, appreciated. I've emailed Henley to see what they think.

[kininigin]

I've not had an issue with excessive heat and i've done a few 1hr cleaning sessions. When you use the rcm,is it in free space? There is an exhaust on the side,maybe if that is blocked it would build up heat?? :scratch:

[Woodhead]

Thanks Kininigin, yeah I do it on a tabletop with free space all around. I see that there are vents underneath as well, and those are clear.
I'm gonna try raising the clamp assembly a couple of mm, there's an allen bolt to adjust that mentioned in the instructions.

It could be caused by using the DiskDoctor brush I guess, similar design to the MOFI one, a large felt pad.
I guess the drag this applies to the LP is more than the Pro-Ject goats hair brush, so might add torque to the motor which could result in overheating. Hmmm.

[Clive197]

Mine is coming on Wednesday. My intention is to bin the fluid that comes with it and use some " L'Art du Son" that I have managed to source. Do any of you guys have any experience of this fluid or should I keep the included fluid.

[Simon_LDT]

Definitely bin the fluid it comes with. The thing was knocked up in a rush as the original recipe would not pass customs because of the alcohol content. The new fluid doesn't contain any alcohol and I'd be suspicious about using it.

I use The Right One which is superb fluid.

[Woodhead]

I'm using the DIY formula often mentioned here on AOS (4parts distilled water to 1part IPA(99.9%) with 1:200 Ilfotol wetting agent).
Same is also extensively written about on londonjazzcollector.
Opinion seems entrenched into two camps as to whether alcohol is bad for vinyl. I'm no chemist, just following the herd which seems to think it's fine.

My water supply is from here (£15 for 5L delivered):
http://www.buydistilledwater.co.uk/distilled-water/21-distilled-water-specification

I have no experience of other fluids so can't compare. The Pro-Ject concentrate does smell very nice though!

[AlfaGTV]

Mine is coming on Wednesday. My intention is to bin the fluid that comes with it and use some " L'Art du Son" that I have managed to source. Do any of you guys have any experience of this fluid or should I keep the included fluid.
I use L'Art du Son, and have done so for a few years now. (still on my first bottle)
It's very good as a cleaning agent, but on the other hand you really need to use sterile bottles for mixing the fluid in. If they are not absolutely clean there will grow things in the cleaning solution!
On the other hand i have also bought a vinyl floor cleaning agent called Tarkett BioClean which works just as good, smells quite similar and gives equal results. That bottle of cleaning agent (1Litre) cost less than £3 though! (and has the same concentration as LArt Du Son)
I do use isoprop/dist water/couple of drops Fairy for precleaning though, the combination works perfect!

[Clive197]

Mine arrived this morning. Unboxed and noticed some changes which seem to resolve some issues mentioned here.
1st of all the base of the vacume tube is now some sort of hard plastic, which probably solves the sticking issue and you no longer get any grease as its not needed. The clamp now used a soft rubber material spread over both disc clamps and finally the solution now does not contain alcohol. I do use the L'Art du Son fluid.
I spent the afternoon cleaning about a dozen records and everything works fine with no heat issues.
My only negative comment is that the switch labels are already peeling. Not good but I will make up some new labels myself.

[Simon_LDT]

Yeah, the labels on mine are not the greatest either. Makes you wonder what they were thinking with this machine because that is now the 3rd variation. It seems they never bothered to test it and just released a prototype and let the consumer spot the flaws.