View Full Version : Bravo Sir
http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/
(http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8v7VsF12Ck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZmeZyDGkQ0
(http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/)
(http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/)
Firebottle
18-02-2016, 08:07
Bravo indeed. It would be like opening Pandora's box :mental:
walpurgis
18-02-2016, 11:09
The FBI will get it's way. This may be fought in the US courts, but I can just envisage threats of prosecution under the huge scope of US terrorism laws being waved at Apple. Look at what they've done with Julian Assange. Who gave people a 'heads up' about nasty covert US machinations and is now wanted as a terrorist.
Apple have a huge say in world politi s too..im not so sure they will. If it happens you can be sure it wont be reported. Of course this is just what microsoft have indeed done with win10. It may well be at behest of the fbi etcbut using win 10 is allowing them to read everything on your drives and indeex every keystroke you make.
I recently switched to using a macbook pro from a windows machine for some of my work, partly due to the security advantages of Apple encryption, and being fed up with Windows adware and the other issues associated with security. I find Apple's stance not just understandable but essential as a reaction to an ever growing menace of "big Brother" in all our lives. It is becoming absolutely insidious in all walks of life and more needs to be done to resist interference by these agencies. The FBI are using this murder investigation as nothing more than an excuse to create a back door into a system that so far, they do not have access to. Whilst I feel for the relatives involved, it is wrong to use one isolated case to create an obvious snooping tool for world-wide indiscriminate use at the whim of the FBI. This is bigger than just the USA and whilst naysayers will always say "but if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about". I'm sure that the same mentalities were at work when the fascists were at work in Germany in the 1930's, and many lived to regret their support of that regime.
Ali Tait
18-02-2016, 11:35
Just be a smokescreen anyway. I've no doubt the NSA can crack Apple's security any time they want to.
Just be a smokescreen anyway. I've no doubt the NSA can crack Apple's security any time they want to.
I dont think they can, done properly crypto with a long enough key, peer reviewed code and proper prime selection is still safe. Thats whats upsetting the various security services. And in this case its even simpler. They want to brute force the 4 digit pin code by trying all 10000 possible values. Apple have coded the phone so that if you fail 10 times in a row it wipes the key from the device. Without that key, the phone contains random data and is a brick. Apple haven't said for certain, but its believed the system is coded to do the same thing if a OS update is forced on the phone, so they can't just replace the OS with a new one that does what the FBI want.
walpurgis
18-02-2016, 12:09
Just be a smokescreen anyway. I've no doubt the NSA can crack Apple's security any time they want to.
Probably. I reckon.
Likely they're just trying to flex some muscle against a big organisation to see how far they can push things.
If they can't break the encryption, no doubt the keys will end up being subpoenaed to a closed court and Apple gagged. So we'd never hear about it anyway.
Ali Tait
18-02-2016, 12:13
I dont think they can, done properly crypto with a long enough key, peer reviewed code and proper prime selection is still safe. Thats whats upsetting the various security services. And in this case its even simpler. They want to brute force the 4 digit pin code by trying all 10000 possible values. Apple have coded the phone so that if you fail 10 times in a row it wipes the key from the device. Without that key, the phone contains random data and is a brick. Apple haven't said for certain, but its believed the system is coded to do the same thing if a OS update is forced on the phone, so they can't just replace the OS with a new one that does what the FBI want.
Well you'd know Nick. No doubt they'll have some clever people and technology working on it though.
If they can't break the encryption, no doubt the keys will end up being subpoenaed to a closed court and Apple gagged. So we'd never hear about it anyway.
But that the issue, Apple don’t have the keys. They are on the phone and nowhere else, and without the pass key the phone crypt locker will not be opened.
Apple are clever enough to make sure that they did the encryption such that no matter what pressure is put on them, if its mathematically impossible for they to do it, they can't be guilty of anything.
Maths is a bitch like that, doesn’t matter how much a judge bangs his gavel, pi will never equal 3.
walpurgis
18-02-2016, 12:48
pi will never equal 3.
It might. Unlikely. But as we haven't got there yet, who knows? :)
It might. Unlikely. But as we haven't got there yet, who knows? :)
I assume by that you are referring to the fact that pi is an irrational number. But its not true we don't know its value, pi is exactly equal to pi, what we can't do is express it as a fraction (or write it down). But ignoring that, there is no x in 3.14x that can make it more than 3.15 and less than 3.14 so we can say with certainty its not going to be 3. Not even for large values of 3 :-)
brian2957
18-02-2016, 16:16
I assume by that you are referring to the fact that pi is an irrational number. But its not true we don't know its value, pi is exactly equal to pi, what we can't do is express it as a fraction (or write it down). But ignoring that, there is no x in 3.14x that can make it more than 3.15 and less than 3.14 so we can say with certainty its not going to be 3. Not even for large values of 3 :-)
22/7? :)
awkwardbydesign
18-02-2016, 16:50
And once "they" have legislation in place, it will never be used only once, or only in these circumstances. In the UK the anti-rave laws were quickly used to close down at least one long standing legitimate motorcycle rally that was popular with the locals, in the '90s. Because they could.
In the good old days before PCs, we had to use mainframe computers and write programs for them using languages such as Fortran 4. Computers in those days didn't know what 'pi' was, it had to be defined by the programmer. Fortran 4 calculated everything to 12 decimal places; but rather than define pi to 12 places (which would require 18 keystrokes), we would use pi = 4*ATAN(1), which required 6 less keystrokes, and was just as accurate.
Even the ancient Egyptians estimated pi to be 3.25, however one state in the US during the late 19th century came close to voting that pi would equal three exactly!
22/7? :)
What part of "what we can't do is express it as a fraction (or write it down)." did you find a problem :-)
however one state in the US during the late 19th century came close to voting that pi would equal three exactly!
I assumed everyone was aware of that example of the stupidity of US law makers, that’s why I used it in a throw away phrase. But legally, they do have as much chance of making pi 3 as making encryption illegal. It would require making maths illegal which would be problematic.
There is nothing that anyone can do to stop a criminal from breaking the law, so the only people with privacy will be the criminals. Just encrypt the secret message using a pre arranged key, hide the data in a pre arranged manner in a picture of your dog, post it on facebook for the world to see. Then the one person who knows there is a message hidden can extract it from the picture with no one knowing it was ever there.
Thought it was 3.2... Can make incryption illegal and prosecute folk for using it... Americans can do anything:doh: and the uk will trot behind like good lttle dog
walpurgis
18-02-2016, 17:33
we can say with certainty its not going to be 3. Not even for large values of 3 :-)
Yes. You can say that with 'certainty'. But that does not mean it isn't. We are unlikely to ever know (with certainty). :D
Damned indians
Dot or feather? :)
Meanwhile,
news just in...Google's getting involved.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/google-joins-apple-in-refusing-to-hack-into-phones-to-give-us-government-access-to-terrorist-s-a6880926.html
Dot or feather? :)
Indianians lol
I assume by that you are referring to the fact that pi is an irrational number. But its not true we don't know its value, pi is exactly equal to pi, what we can't do is express it as a fraction (or write it down). But ignoring that, there is no x in 3.14x that can make it more than 3.15 and less than 3.14 so we can say with certainty its not going to be 3. Not even for large values of 3 :-)
We can certainly write it down: Pi = ln(-1)/sqrt(-1) or Pi = 4*atan(1) .
We can certainly write it down: Pi = ln(-1)/sqrt(-1) or Pi = 4*atan(1) .
Alternatively,
https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-30ee235711f1d121c29658227a397682?convert_to_webp=t rue
or
https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-70ef75a891d6854085d27bd4de40f9fb?convert_to_webp=t rue
or
https://upload.wikimedia.org/math/5/3/5/535d2d106b4243d1f9872f916b273c7a.png
:D
But getting back on topic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8v7VsF12Ck (http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/)
Take he's not keen;)
what was that album I was listening to again Gaz/ thel ass livingtone something
Livingston Taylor - "Ink"
Good innit?
Take he's not keen;)
what was that album I was listening to again Gaz/ thel ass livingtone something
Livingston Taylor - "Ink"
Good innit?
cheers.....and...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/math/4/1/f/41fb8988498d12e97b927be0cc417f02.png
Yes. You can say that with 'certainty'. But that does not mean it isn't. We are unlikely to ever know (with certainty). :D
No, I thiunk we can say with absolute certainly that pi will never be equal to 3 for any value of 3.
We can certainly write it down: Pi = ln(-1)/sqrt(-1) or Pi = 4*atan(1) .
I will wait for you to write sqrt( -1 ) down...
A simple way would be to write it as 1 (base Pi)
Thought it was 3.2... Can make incryption illegal and prosecute folk for using it... Americans can do anything:doh: and the uk will trot behind like good lttle dog
I will wait with interest to see how someone can make maths illegal.
I also think that the fact it would make all on line transactions illegal would give them reason to think again.
Sure you will be allowed to use "their" encryptions:rolleyes: ..you know what these folk are like; a little power, a lot of power, then we need more; they would be better served stopping their govt interfering into other countries affairs.
I will wait with interest to see how someone can make maths illegal.
I also think that the fact it would make all on line transactions illegal would give them reason to think again.
Nick,
To me THAT'S the thing that will make the FBI realise they cant just blunderbuss their way in here.
Its the tipping point.
It will affect the bottom line.
Sadly, never mind the moral/personal aspects..it'll hit business, so lets reconsider.
God bless America (Looking after you since J Edgar Hoover flounced about in his fetching floral summer dress)
damned expensive cd that lol (Taylor) which one was the homo one too please?
oh and I found that program; it has a linux version too :D
Yay!
http://www.dvdae.com/download
damned expensive cd that lol (Taylor) which one was the homo one too please?
oh and I found that program; it has a linux version too :D
That's Brian's area, sorry. :)
Sara K. "Hobo" (not homo)
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