kef iq5 to tannoy DC6T?

[the_doc735]

kef iq5 (£500) to tannoy DC6T (£1500)?

...would this be a good and worthwhile upgrade?

....'grats' to any audiophiles and those 'in the business'...

:scratch:

[Arkless Electronics]

Speakers are by far the most "one man's meat is another's poison" part of a system and also the sound varies so much with the room they are used in that only your own ears can be the judge ;) Not very helpful I know....

[the_doc735]

Speakers are by far the most "one man's meat is another's poison" part of a system and also the sound varies so much with the room they are used in that only your own ears can be the judge ;) Not very helpful I know....
:lol::lol::lol:

[Floyddroid]

The Tannoys would be my choice like. Neve been a KEF fan. I always thought KEF drivers sounded better in other manufacturers designs.

[Reffc]

Best to audition them if you can.

I find them a little brightly voiced, as with many modern speakers, (although reviewers seem to call this "sparkle" these days!) and the 8 Ohm nominal load in reality drops off lower than this in the bass, so is s pretty meaningless figure as the most demanding load is the bass. (check your amp's specs to see that it won't have any issues)

I rather suspect that it is a case of "different" rather than "better" since they are both of a similar design built to a similar budget but the Tannoy's should have a little more bass clout.

The DC6T's I've seen are also considerably cheaper (as in half the price) than £1500.

[hifi_dave]

The OP needs to audition a range of speakers and not concentrate on Tannoy. The mass market Tannoys are bright and hard as RFC has pointed out and there are others with a better balance. They are available at a big discount though.

[Pieoftheday]

richersounds have tannoy dc6t se version at £250(open box):eek:

[wee tee cee]

I still have my kef iq5s in my front room as rears in my av set up. I bought a pair of tannoy f3s for a hundred quid from richer sounds-one of my sons pals has them on loan. The tannoys aint pretty but to my ears were very good with a larger cabinet and bass driver.

I still feel the kefs if fed a good signal are excellent speakers that image really well and produce great low end for their size-that tweeter/driver combo can sound a tad forward if partnered with the wrong equipment.

Any scope for trying different interconnects/speaker cable/amps.

Any members near you with a resolved system you could plumb the kefs into? Failing that come to your place with some wires or different kit to try-lots of very helpful people in this wee community that will go out there way to help you along the road!!!!

[the_doc735]

The Tannoys would be my choice like. Neve been a KEF fan. I always thought KEF drivers sounded better in other manufacturers designs.

:cool:

[the_doc735]

Best to audition them if you can.

I find them a little brightly voiced, as with many modern speakers, (although reviewers seem to call this "sparkle" these days!) and the 8 Ohm nominal load in reality drops off lower than this in the bass, so is s pretty meaningless figure as the most demanding load is the bass. (check your amp's specs to see that it won't have any issues)

I rather suspect that it is a case of "different" rather than "better" since they are both of a similar design built to a similar budget but the Tannoy's should have a little more bass clout.

The DC6T's I've seen are also considerably cheaper (as in half the price) than £1500.

:eek:

[the_doc735]

The OP needs to audition a range of speakers and not concentrate on Tannoy. The mass market Tannoys are bright and hard as RFC has pointed out and there are others with a better balance. They are available at a big discount though.

:D

[the_doc735]

richersounds have tannoy dc6t se version at £250(open box):eek:

:interesting:

[the_doc735]

I still have my kef iq5s in my front room as rears in my av set up. I bought a pair of tannoy f3s for a hundred quid from richer sounds-one of my sons pals has them on loan. The tannoys aint pretty but to my ears were very good with a larger cabinet and bass driver.

I still feel the kefs if fed a good signal are excellent speakers that image really well and produce great low end for their size-that tweeter/driver combo can sound a tad forward if partnered with the wrong equipment.

Any scope for trying different interconnects/speaker cable/amps.

Any members near you with a resolved system you could plumb the kefs into? Failing that come to your place with some wires or different kit to try-lots of very helpful people in this wee community that will go out there way to help you along the road!!!!

:cheers::cheers:

[the_doc735]

the amp I have is a NAD 3020i (old) but fantastic I.M.O.

:hairmetal:

[the_doc735]

What Hi-Fi Verdict: Top Marks/5 STAR AWARD

TANNOY DC6T

Best floorstander £700-£1500, Awards 2011. As complete a package as you’re likely to see for under £1500.

For:

Solid, purposeful build and style exciting, spacious and balanced sound.

Against:

Today - Other floorstanders sound 'a little' richer and fuller (2016).

Let's not forget - the music is the important thing!! ~ I don't need to 'see' the difference on an oscilloscope, I don't need car busting power, I don't need equipment that is so advanced that its range is beyond human hearing limitations ~ I don't need to worry over negligible and miniscule 'improvements' that different speaker cables may make! Keeping it real !!

[Reffc]

Making your mind up about speakers from (biased) hifi mag reviews is usually just setting yourself up for disappointment. Several people including dealers on here have already advised that you audition a range of speakers in budget before you buy as there will be clear differences (and therefore preferences for you) between all of them. No-one has even remotely hinted that you use an oscilloscope (or anything else equally as silly) to help you pick something, so having a dig at people trying to help isn't winning you favour. Your enthusiasm is plain and a good thing but the advice was to get out and audition rather than waste time reading reviews that might be meaningless in the context of your system in your room ;)

[walpurgis]

Hearing speakers in your home and on your own system is the only way to be sure of what sound you may end up with. Some dealers will arrange a home demo, which is definitely the best option.

Magazine reviews can not be trusted.

[Floyddroid]

The OP needs to audition a range of speakers and not concentrate on Tannoy. The mass market Tannoys are bright and hard as RFC has pointed out and there are others with a better balance. They are available at a big discount though.

I would disagree Dave. The Tannoy 6.4 precision are fantastic. Smooth too.

[the_doc735]

Making your mind up about speakers from (biased) hifi mag reviews is usually just setting yourself up for disappointment. Several people including dealers on here have already advised that you audition a range of speakers in budget before you buy as there will be clear differences (and therefore preferences for you) between all of them. No-one has even remotely hinted that you use an oscilloscope (or anything else equally as silly) to help you pick something, so having a dig at people trying to help isn't winning you favour. Your enthusiasm is plain and a good thing but the advice was to get out and audition rather than waste time reading reviews that might be meaningless in the context of your system in your room ;)

No I wasn't have a dig at anyone in particular. I'm sorry if you got that impression and apologise? I was merely stating my point of view on the subject. I said/wrote it in good humour, there was no 'ill will' directed at anyone at all. Look at it as though someone had asked me: "how important is hi-fi to you personally?" Then I would have said: "Let's not forget - the music is the important thing!! ~ I don't need to 'see' the difference on an oscilloscope (LOL), I don't need car busting power (LOL), I don't need equipment that is so advanced that its range is beyond human hearing limitations (LOL) ~ I don't need to worry over negligible and miniscule 'improvements' that different speaker cables may make! (LOL) Keeping it real !!" ~ That's my 'stand point'/P.O.V. Replying in a 'light and airy' kind of way and in good humour; no offence intended to anyone. This subject isn't worth getting too serious or too sensitive about, it's only a glorified record player at the end of the day (LOL). Stay Happy!! :peace:

[the_doc735]

Hearing speakers in your home and on your own system is the only way to be sure of what sound you may end up with. Some dealers will arrange a home demo, which is definitely the best option. Magazine reviews can not be trusted.

I see! ~ but I'm only looking at used/second hand stuff and all the local shops I know only sell new equipment, so what to do then? I have lost touch with the hi fi scene over the decades and much has changed since the late 60's/early 70's. I've had quite a few sets of speakers in my time but my experience probably isn't relevant to todays speakers and hifi, I haven't bought any since the late 70's.

[the_doc735]

I would disagree Dave. The Tannoy 6.4 precision are fantastic. Smooth too.

:thumbsup:

[walpurgis]

Paul. Perhaps if you described the rest of your system, we might have a better idea of what speakers may be an option and of course those that would be best avoided.

I'm assuming you want floorstanding speakers.

[the_doc735]

Paul. Perhaps if you described the rest of your system, we might have a better idea of what speakers may be an option and of course those that would be best avoided.

I'm assuming you want floorstanding speakers.

IN THIS thread: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?42892-hello
I mentioned that I had:

Nad 3020i amp.
Kef iQ5 Speakers + Kef PSW2010 Subwoofer.
sennheiser HD 558 headset
Arcam Miniblink DAC
HP Pavilion G6 - 2382sa D0Y14EA#ABU + Creative BT-D1 [+ Azio BTD-V401]

....I'm not using any vinyl, cassette or conventional tuner options.

I also have a Creative Cambridge DTT2200 5.1 System, & Denon AH-D320 Phones.

************************************************** **********************
NOW:

Nad 3020i amp + Tacima CS947
Tannoy DC6T Speakers
Tannoy TS10 Subwoofer + Tacima CS947
sennheiser HD 558 headset
Arcam Miniblink DAC + iFI iPOWER
HP Pavilion G6* - 2382sa D0Y14EA#ABU + Creative BT-D1 [+ Azio BTD-V401]
[*using onboard battery for music listening].

[Macca]

I see! ~ but I'm only looking at used/second hand stuff and all the local shops I know only sell new equipment, so what to do then? I have lost touch with the hi fi scene over the decades and much has changed since the late 60's/early 70's. I've had quite a few sets of speakers in my time but my experience probably isn't relevant to todays speakers and hifi, I haven't bought any since the late 70's.

Your experience is still 100% relevant. Nothing has changed, really good speakers are still expensive, if you are buying new at least. And there are fewer really good vintage speakers still under the radar than there used to be.

I'd say that if you want to move it forward and are not unhappy with the KEFs then consider changing the amplification. The NAD is an amp I know and I'd guess (having also heard the IQ3 but not the IQ5) that it is a good match for the IQ5, but it could be bettered.

[Roy S]

NOW:


Tannoy DC6T Speakers


So you went for the Tannoys? I have their bigger brothers, DC10Ts, very happy with them

[the_doc735]

Your experience is still 100% relevant. Nothing has changed, really good speakers are still expensive, if you are buying new at least. And there are fewer really good vintage speakers still under the radar than there used to be.

I'd say that if you want to move it forward and are not unhappy with the KEFs then consider changing the amplification. The NAD is an amp I know and I'd guess (having also heard the IQ3 but not the IQ5) that it is a good match for the IQ5, but it could be bettered.

the NAD can be bettered?

[walpurgis]

the NAD can be bettered?

Yes. But you'd have to quote a budget.

What I mean is that £85 worth of second hand Denon PMA-350SE will give you a big leap in resolution, transparency and punch, but a used Sugden A21a or Creek Destiny at around £550 will take you much further. And they'll all work fine with the Tannoys. But of course there are other options.

[the_doc735]

So you went for the Tannoys? I have their bigger brothers, DC10Ts, very happy with them

Yes, I don't think I'll find the ultimate sound for my ears, besides the recordings quality varies anyway. I'm happy to know that I have acquired a decent system with highly regarded brands, and not some cheap unbranded junk! Surely with names like tannoy, arcam, nad, kef, B&W, B&O, Spendor Bose, Linn, Naim etc. you can't go far wrong really? These names are not generally associated with low quality budget junk!

How tall are the 10's B.T.W.?

[Roy S]

How tall are the 10's B.T.W.?

Roughly 44h x 13w x 13d (inches)

[walpurgis]

Surely with names like tannoy, arcam, nad, kef, B&W, B&O, Spendor etc. you can't go far wrong really?

Don't take that for granted at all. Well known names (Bose anybody?) mean little in Hi-Fi. Some of the best gear is made by companies you will not have heard of (yet).

[the_doc735]

Yes. But you'd have to quote a budget.

What I mean is that £85 worth of second hand Denon PMA-350SE will give you a big leap in resolution, transparency and punch, but a used Sugden A21a or Creek Destiny at around £550 will take you much further. And they'll all work fine with the Tannoys. But of course there are other options.

I did once have a denon amp with a midi system #pile#, circa 1992, much the same quality as those of similar priced, Sony, Pioneer, Technics, Kenwood etc. Not familiar with Sugden? Creek? Remember my 3020i is rather old but people who have bought them second hand still rave about the audio quality today. Realistically, I would expect bang up to date high end amps to surpass the level set back in the 70's, 80's, 90's. I would be more inclined to spend £85 rather than £550 though! :rock:

16220

[the_doc735]

Roughly 44h x 13w x 13d (inches)

:thumbsup:

[the_doc735]

Don't take that for granted at all. Well known names (Bose anybody?) mean little in Hi-Fi. Some of the best gear is made by companies you will not have heard of (yet).

:rolleyes::doh::help:

[the_doc735]

OK ~ I removed the limitations on ebay and found amps up to £23,000!! ~ {having all kinds of weird and wonderful exotic names} ...but is this really necessary? At what price can you get a high end hi-fi quality sound in used/second hand condition?

i.e. why buy a Ferrari when a Ford Focus RS will do?

where is the optimum cut off price/level?

...with this kind of stuff on ebay (of all places) why bother with a dedicated hi-fi shop? How anal do you have to get?

I am pretty close to my personal satisfaction threshold, I only have a tiny budget to work with.

I'm pretty sure my DC6T + TS10 make up for any difference in sound quality between these and the DC10T?

On the amp side of the equation, I could possibly do 'better' for £200?

Also, people say I need to spend 3 or 4 times the amount on a decent DAC? I have the latest Arcam miniblink + APT-X; + Creative BT-D1 + APT-X and I am only looking for wireless laptop connectivity?

Dilemma, what to do? Also, I can't afford to get too bogged down and over involved with this whole process, i.e. I don't want to end up diverting my entire personal energy pool to this cause! It's not a life and death issue for me personally!

Any thoughts, ideas welcomed....

[the_doc735]

OK ~ So!

Is it the case that:

£10 - £1000 incredible sonic benefits to be had
£1000 - £24,000 negligible sonic benefits to be found?

...thoughts invited

[Macca]

Okay here are my answers to your questions. Note this is absolutely my opinion only and others will no doubt disagree. Responses in bold


OK ~ I removed the limitations on ebay and found amps up to £23,000!! ~ {having all kinds of weird and wonderful exotic names} ...but is this really necessary? At what price can you get a high end hi-fi quality sound in used/second hand condition?

Some expensive amps are really good, others are just adequate but in blingy cases. Speakers are proper mechanical engineering and can't be 'faked' in this way like CD players and amps can, so really good speakers are generally expensive - Look at at least £2K new and £500 up used although it is still possible to bag a bargain used if you can travel to collect.

i.e. why buy a Ferrari when a Ford Focus RS will do?

Reminds me of my friend who traded in his 911 Carerra for a Subaru Impreza and pronounced the Scoooby as better in every way. A lot of 911 drivers would disagree! No short answer to that one.

where is the optimum cut off price/level?

The point at which you personally won't or can't spend any more.

...with this kind of stuff on ebay (of all places) why bother with a dedicated hi-fi shop? How anal do you have to get?

You can experiment yourself, or copy a system you heard and liked, or go to a dealer and have him advise a combo he thinks will work for you. Experimenting yourself is the hard way but that way you do learn a lot more.

I am pretty close to my personal satisfaction threshold, I only have a tiny budget to work with.

If you are happy then why change? Speakers will make the biggest difference, but is it is an improvement you want rather than just a change you will have your work cut out on a small budget. There are plenty of 1970s speakers that can be bought for a few hundred and you might prefer them to your KEFs. But the only way to test this is to buy some, moving them on for a similar price if you don't like them. Obviously this involves an investment of time.

I'm pretty sure my DC6T + TS10 make up for any difference in sound quality between these and the DC10T?

The presentation will be different. That doesn't necessarily mean the quality of the sound will improve.

On the amp side of the equation, I could possibly do 'better' for £200?

Probably, see Geoff's answer above.

Also, people say I need to spend 3 or 4 times the amount on a decent DAC? I have the latest Arcam miniblink + APT-X; + Creative BT-D1 + APT-X and I am only looking for wireless laptop connectivity?

Don't know. Don't have much experience trying different DACS, me being a luddite CD player user.

Dilemma, what to do? Also, I can't afford to get too bogged down and over involved with this whole process, i.e. I don't want to end up diverting my entire personal energy pool to this cause! It's not a life and death issue for me personally!

Any thoughts, ideas welcomed....

[walpurgis]

I would expect bang up to date high end amps to surpass the level set back in the 70's, 80's, 90's.

Not necessarily the case.

Expensive modern high end amps like say Dartzeel for instance ( http://www.stereophile.com/integratedamps/dartzeel_cth-8550_integrated_amplifier/#OXlhJIWZqqqymHGx.97 ), could be argued as moving things forward, but many amps made in the sixties, seventies and onwards are still highly regarded and justifiably so.

The same applies across the board component wise to an extent. Speakers, turntables, cartridges and so forth, from forty or more years ago are still in much demand. Things are a little less clear with 'digital'. CD players and DACs and the like. There are some old favourites though.

Some would say that the 'golden era' of HI-Fi was the late sixties to mid seventies.

[walpurgis]

OK ~ So!

Is it the case that:

£10 - £1000 incredible sonic benefits to be had
£1000 - £24,000 negligible sonic benefits to be found?

...thoughts invited


The law of diminishing returns applies as much to Hi-Fi, as it does to anything else. But an experienced and clever enthusiast can put together a remarkable sounding system on a relatively sensible budget.

[the_doc735]

Okay here are my answers to your questions. Note this is absolutely my opinion only and others will no doubt disagree. Responses in bold

great answers! Much obliged for keeping it real.

[the_doc735]

Not necessarily the case.

Expensive modern high end amps like say Dartzeel for instance ( http://www.stereophile.com/integratedamps/dartzeel_cth-8550_integrated_amplifier/#OXlhJIWZqqqymHGx.97 ), could be argued as moving things forward, but many amps made in the sixties, seventies and onwards are still highly regarded and justifiably so.

The same applies across the board component wise to an extent. Speakers, turntables, cartridges and so forth, from forty or more years ago are still in much demand. Things are a little less clear with 'digital'. CD players and DACs and the like. There are some old favourites though.

Some would say that the 'golden era' of HI-Fi was the late sixties to mid seventies.


The law of diminishing returns applies as much to Hi-Fi, as it does to anything else. But an experienced and clever enthusiast can put together a remarkable sounding system on a relatively sensible budget.

great answers! Much obliged for keeping it real.

[the_doc735]

So you went for the Tannoys? I have their bigger brothers, DC10Ts, very happy with them

....just tried out the DC6T's and I can confidently say that I do prefer the sound of these to my Kef iQ5 which will be passed on now. I can't explain in words but the DC6T's seem rounder, fuller, richer, smoother some how even late at night on low volume (neighbour has toddlers!). Be giving them a good blast at midday though!!
:gig:

[walpurgis]

An example. If you had a Leak Stereo 20 valve power amplifier from the sixties paired with a relatively cheap (say £80) modern passive pre-amplifier driving your Tannoys, you would be astonished at the sound quality!!

[the_doc735]

An example. If you had a Leak Stereo 20 valve power amplifier from the sixties paired with a relatively cheap (say £80) modern passive pre-amplifier driving your Tannoys, you would be astonished at the sound quality!!

Very interesting concept! ~ can you elaborate a little? ... a bit more 'techy'? Is this the old valve Vs. transistor debate (war)? :hmm:

[the_doc735]

NOTE:

I paid £80 for the NAD 3020i. Bargain ??
I paid less than £200 for the DC6T's. Bargain ??

:hmm:

[walpurgis]

Very interesting concept! ~ can you elaborate a little? ... a bit more 'techy'? Is this the old valve Vs. transistor debate (war)? :hmm:

All I'm describing basically, is that an old amplifier can sound truly excellent. The Leak is a power amp and has no controls at all. You need at least a passive pre-amp to control volume and select input sources.

There is no valve vs transistor competition. A good amplifier can be of any type. I use both valves and solid state (transistor), as and when it suits me, to drive my forty year old Tannoys.

[the_doc735]

All I'm describing basically, is that an old amplifier can sound truly excellent. The Leak is a power amp and has no controls at all. You need at least a passive pre-amp to control volume and select input sources.

There is no valve vs transistor competition. A good amplifier can be of any type. I use both valves and solid state (transistor), as and when it suits me, to drive my forty year old Tannoys.

:interesting::uhho::clapclapclap: