View Full Version : iFi iPower for Raspberry PI
Anyone here using one of the above to power their Pi? I was wondering if it was a worthwhile upgrade on the bog std £5 psu.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/iFI-Audio-Power-Supply-Raspberry/dp/B017O38DEA
Would think it a worthwhile upgrade. Not tried it but looks quite. My linear made a difference and at that cost its not much outlay really
Thats what I was thinking, I don't want to spend a lot on a good linear as this is a bit of a side project, my main system is based around a MBP/Roon.
Spectral Morn
16-02-2016, 16:45
But power input is via a mini USB, yes, no ?
Thats what I was thinking, I don't want to spend a lot on a good linear as this is a bit of a side project, my main system is based around a MBP/Roon.
Looks very interesting...I have two products of theirs already, the iFi USB Power, and the iFi DSD Nano, both are excellent IMHO :)
As another cost saving option you could try a battery pack, I'm running my IQaudio Pi2 combo via one of these...
https://www.anker.com/products/79AN7906-BA
...unfortunately it looks like they're out of UK stock again, availability is a bit patchy...:eyebrows:
It's definitely an improvement over the stock PSU
But power input is via a mini USB, yes, no ?
Yes it comes with an adaptor.
But power input is via a mini USB, yes, no ?
I can only see this option on their web site...as you say it doesn't appear to have a mini USB adaptor
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/
...although the Amazon advert implies otherwise...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/iFI-Audio-Power-Supply-Raspberry/dp/B017O38DEA/ref=lp_5247392031_1_8?srs=5247392031&ie=UTF8&qid=1455640500&sr=8-8
...a little odd, perhaps there is a USB adaptor with it :eyebrows:
EDIT; Roob's post sorted that out!
Oh well took the plunge, lets see what happens.
I bought one of these for my RPi a couple of weeks ago and I think it's definitely worth having. I also got some cables and adaptors so I could power my hard drive from the iPower at the same time. Dispensing with the clunky powered hub makes for a very neat installation.
robtweed
17-02-2016, 11:03
Oh well took the plunge, lets see what happens.
Please report back here with your findings - looks interesting and a price more in line with the Pi itself. I've seen people selling linear power supplies for it, but at over £200, which, to me, seems bonkers when the Pi itself just costs £30.
The Black Adder
17-02-2016, 11:32
Please report back here with your findings - looks interesting and a price more in line with the Pi itself. I've seen people selling linear power supplies for it, but at over £200, which, to me, seems bonkers when the Pi itself just costs £30.
Why? It depends on how much you want to push the idea. If you spend £30 on one thing and £200+ on a PSU you can still save a lot of money over buying an off the shelf £500 - £1000 cd player/streamer of which the Pi+DAC can knock the socks off.
I personally judge the Pi/IQDAC as a giant killer but only with the right PSU.
Regarding the new wall wart, well even if it's only a little better than the Pi one then that's got to be a good thing.
robtweed
17-02-2016, 13:43
I'd prefer to just use an Anker power pack instead - that's in line with the cost of the Pi and does the job of improving its sound when I want to listen critically to music streamed via the Pi. At other times I live with a standard USB power supply.
:eyebrows:
sorry, but to me it looks like an overpriced and repackaged "made in China" walmart charger. They don't even even mention the Amps it is supposed to output. If you are prepared to pay that much, then there are better options with linear PSU's on ebay like this one (http://www.ebay.com/itm/30W-HIFI-LT1083-radio-single-linear-power-supply-5V-9V-12V-15V-18V-24V-DAC-amp-/121819583412?hash=item1c5d0353b4:g:SiAAAOSwcdBWTpS M) (random search on ebay).. you'd need to adapt the cable or make a jumper from micro USB to Jack but that's not a big deal but at least it is a proper PSU.
The Black Adder
17-02-2016, 14:43
:eyebrows:
sorry, but to me it looks like an overpriced and repackaged "made in China" walmart charger. They don't even even mention the Amps it is supposed to output. If you are prepared to pay that much, then there are better options with linear PSU's on ebay like this one (http://www.ebay.com/itm/30W-HIFI-LT1083-radio-single-linear-power-supply-5V-9V-12V-15V-18V-24V-DAC-amp-/121819583412?hash=item1c5d0353b4:g:SiAAAOSwcdBWTpS M) (random search on ebay).. you'd need to adapt the cable or make a jumper from micro USB to Jack but that's not a big deal but at least it is a proper PSU.
+1
Much more information about the iFi power adapter here: http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/
Output current is 2.5A for the 5V version so more than enough for an Rpi setup.
No idea how good these things are but I love to give these things a go, so I'll take a punt on one and report back. I already have an Anker battery which works well that I can compare it against. It'll be interesting to see how things stack up between this, a standard wall wart the Anker battery and eventually, a Paul Hynes PSU...
I also notice that the Amazon seller is MCRU, so I would imagine these little units come recommended and have to be worth a try on that alone...
sorry, but to me it looks like an overpriced and repackaged "made in China" walmart charger. They don't even even mention the Amps it is supposed to output. If you are prepared to pay that much, then there are better options with linear PSU's on ebay like this one (random search on ebay).. you'd need to adapt the cable or make a jumper from micro USB to Jack but that's not a big deal but at least it is a proper PSU.
You got me thinking now maybe I shouldn't have bought a psu from a company with a proven track record in ps solutions via a reputable UK reseller and I should have gone for a cheap no make linear Chinese psu that's probably full of fake parts, probably measures worse than a wall wart and could burn my house down;)
ha ha, where is the real technical data ? all i see are jet fighters flashing by.. whatever is inside those chargers, they are overpriced.. but hey believe what you like
The central characteristic of iFi is in pursuit of the zenith in audio performance: it leaves no stone un-turned.
:lol:
I'd prefer to just use an Anker power pack instead - that's in line with the cost of the Pi and does the job of improving its sound when I want to listen critically to music streamed via the Pi. At other times I live with a standard USB power supply.
Hi Rob,
I think you'd change your mind rather quickly if you heard what my RPi is producing with a Paul Hynes SR3DR linear PSU! ;)
There's simply no comparison between that and the Anker, of which you mention, which I've also heard. As Jo correctly points out, thus partnered, the RPi/IQ Audio DAC can compete, sonically, with multiple-thousand pound music streamers, where essentially one is paying for a 'badge' - and *that* is precisely why it's worth spending the money necessary on such a PSU.
Honestly with this stuff, I've been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt.
Marco.
robtweed
18-02-2016, 07:59
Marco
I'm not convinced that such a linear PSU for the Pi would make a difference to my setup. I'm using my Pi with the galvanically isolated version of the Digi+ board, then feeding a Caiman II. Perhaps someone could lend me one to try? I'd be happy to be convinced, but £200 is a significant punt on something that might make no material difference.
I have the same Pi setup as you Rob but outputting to my Chevron Sabre dac, I also doubt spending a few hundred quid on a fancy psu just for the Pi is going to make a big difference in this context.
Marco
I'm not convinced that such a linear PSU for the Pi would make a difference to my setup. I'm using my Pi with the galvanically isolated version of the Digi+ board, then feeding a Caiman II. Perhaps someone could lend me one to try? I'd be happy to be convinced, but £200 is a significant punt on something that might make no material difference.
Well, Rob, the difference is that I have the experience of using such a PSU, and so far you don't, thus I *know* exactly how it (fundamentally) improves the RPi, albeit in conjunction with an IQ-Audio DAC, not a Caiman.
If you lived nearer, you'd be most welcome to pop round and have a listen for yourself (an invitation I'm about to extend to Andrew, who lives only 40 mins from me), after which I'd feel certain that you'd hear exactly what I'm hearing... ;)
Marco.
I have the same Pi setup as you Rob but outputting to my Chevron Sabre dac, I also doubt spending a few hundred quid on a fancy psu just for the Pi is going to make a big difference in this context.
Well, Andrew, you're only in Stoke, so fancy popping round for a listen, whereupon I can demonstrate to you said "fancy psu"? I still have the stock PSU for the RPI, so it's an easy swap, and you can then let YOUR ears decide! :cool:
Marco.
cyclopse
18-02-2016, 22:24
Marco
I'm not convinced that such a linear PSU for the Pi would make a difference to my setup. I'm using my Pi with the galvanically isolated version of the Digi+ board, then feeding a Caiman II. Perhaps someone could lend me one to try? I'd be happy to be convinced, but £200 is a significant punt on something that might make no material difference.
I may be of help. I have the same Paul Hynes supply as Marco and the same digital output board as yourself. The Paul Hynes brings much greater dynamics, imaging and resolution to the party. I wouldn't be without mine.
Regards
Steve
That's interesting, Steve :)
Marco.
Hi Marco
I may take you up on that sometime, I agree a good psu can make a big difference but with only running a digi out board from the Pi then maybe the improvement will not be as big. All this is just a side project at the moment to see if Pi can out do my other streaming gear, so far it sounds better than my Sonos Connect but I still prefer my MBP/Roon (These are all into the Chevron DAC)
I will see if the iPower makes any difference and if it does then shelling out a bit more may be an option, I could sell the Sonos to pay for the better psu:)
No worries, Andy. If you fancy it sometime, just pop me a PM. You'd be most welcome :cool:
Marco.
Just an update.
The iFi ipower psu arrived yesterday and after a few hours listening the conclusion is it makes bugger all difference here:scratch:
But nothing lost as MCRU have a great returns policy and it is going back on Monday for a refund.:)
That's interesting Andy - Is that in comparison with running a battery, or with a stock power supply for the Pi?
My iFi PSU has just arrived at my desk so I'll be giving it a go this evening - Mine is with an IQAudio DAC with analogue out though so my results may not be the same as yours...
Hi Richard
I was comparing to the cheapo £5 psu that came with the Pi.
Maybe it's because I am running an external dac so the Pi psu is not so critical. After a week of running the Pi I went back to the MBP with either Roon or A+ playing the tunes and it was a significant step up imho, the sound is more natural and involving and fuller, with the Pi although the sound is nicely detailed it is somewhat thin and sterile. The comparison is not exactly like for like as the Pi is connected to the dac via coax and the MBP via async usb.
The Pi is a great option for someone getting into streaming and for £60 gives good sq but I am going to stick with my MBP for now.
It's amazing just how much mileage will vary. I gave up on Mac audio in all of its forms a few years ago because I was finding that everything just sounded flat, lifeless and boring. I spent horrendous amounts of money trying to make it work and numerous different Macs - Mini, 3 x Macbook Pro and an iMac and the result was always the same for me - That was back in the old house though which I am very much aware had dreadful electrical wiring that was in severe need of an update and I know that there was some equipment that was very badly affected by this. I need to try the Mac again in the new house (with decent electrics) but that's for another day.
Well, I got to try the iFi last night and as I mentioned in the previous paragraph, it's amazing just how much mileage will vary. I've not smiled so much listening to music in a good while. I would say that when I put the Anker battery into the system, that was around a 30% improvement in sound quality over the stock switch mode supply I was using. The iFi is a good 60% jump over even the Anker battery. It was quite a late night with me up listening to all sorts of stuff last night but what I can say so far is this: What the iFi has brought is inky black silences between notes, the ability to see further into recordings, to feel the weight being put into the downforce of the keys on the piano. Imaging has progressed from a left to right, front to back image to a holographic picture that just pours out of the speakers. Timing and flow have improved considerably. Soundstage is enormous. I don't even feel like I even need to sit between the speakers any more as the music is just happening in a space in front of the system. The biggest difference though is in the HF. The one thing about owning Shahinian speakers is that they are horrendously ruthless when it comes to a source with less than perfect HF response. The Pi previously suffered from some sibilance and a tendency to get messy and a bit shut in when things got extremely busy. Cymbals and percussion always had that slight mechanical edge which I've always attributed to all digital playback and the main thing that keeps me listening to vinyl, but here we have controlled, sweet and airy HF. No sibilance, no harshness (unless it's supposed to be there) and cymbals have that wonderful ring and shimmer like they should. Not the usual clang and splash.
For £40 or so I'm utterly blown away. That's got to be the best £40 I've spent since the IQAudio DAC. Of course the dilemma I'm going to face now will be whether a top quality linear supply will be £150+ better than this! At the moment, I find it hard to imagine that possible.
For £40 or so I'm utterly blown away. That's got to be the best £40 I've spent since the IQAudio DAC. Of course the dilemma I'm going to face now will be whether a top quality linear supply will be £150+ better than this! At the moment, I find it hard to imagine that possible.
Given that your assessment of the Anker battery upgrade roughly correlates with mine, and that I like my other iFi products, I've ordered one too...:)
I'll report back...
I think if you're running an IQAudio DAC also, or anything else that involves an analogue out where the power supply is the same one that the Pi is using then you'll be impressed.
I'm so impressed with it, I think I'm going to get a 12V version to try on my Well Tempered Versalex which should be a very interesting experiment.
Hi All
I’ve been skulking around these PI threads for some time now and spent even longer trying to optimise my windows set up.
I took the plunge on a PI2 some time ago for non-critical spare room use with an IQAUDIO DAC which sounded OK In that set up.
A few weeks ago just for kicks I moved the PI to my main set up (just to convince myself that my 2PC Jplay streamer set up was superior in every way). I hooked it up to my IFI IDAC2/Purifier 2/ Teradac U9 PSU and the smug satisfaction was soon wiped off of my face.:eyebrows:
In short it sounds superb.:D
I started off using Volumio but back then it seemed a little flaky and that fact along with the numerous threads with others endless fiddling to get their set ups to work put me off a little. I’m a little technophobic so learning Linux commands made me reluctant but I had the PI set up in no time.
I'm using the latest 1.55 Volumio Distro and Sound @ home tablet control and it seems to be working much more seamlessly than I remember (less flake more music)
Sounds better than my elaborate PC set up (like much better).:stalks:
I like IFI products so I’ve ordered the £40 PSU from Amazon just to hear if anything extra is to be had.
I’m just using the standard PI PSU ATM so I’ll keep you posted.
BYE BYE Windows.:lol::lol:
paul(555)
24-02-2016, 14:27
I'm following this with great interest. On his last visit my son, simon e of this parish, set up a Pi2 and IQAaudio Dac for my second system with excellent results. It's playing through a Croft Super Micro A pre into ESI uniK 08 active speakers.
I've got plenty of time to listen to it at the moment while I recover from a pretty serious cycling "accident", I was hit by a car, and so my mind was moving towards an improved power supply for the PiDac. I'm delighted to see others putting their toes in the water with the iFi power supply and if Stig also reports favourably then I'll just have to press the button.
This looks an interesting alternative if a mini usb power lead adaptor can be sourced.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HiFi-PSU-15VA-DC5V-2-0A-high-end-Linear-Power-supply-with-USB-port-for-XMOS-6631-/271922367224?hash=item3f4fd60af8:g:6U0AAOSwstxVbQD m
Paul
I am recovering from a cycling accident to, came off on an ice patch at 30mph.
Got a dislocated collarbone and massive soft tissue damage on my hip luckily nothing broken, been off work for 3 weeks now so plenty of time to play around with the Pi and the rest of my gear.
paul(555)
24-02-2016, 17:30
Andy,
Sorry to hear you're also in recovery mode. My damage is almost the reverse of yours, very little soft tissue damage, almost the least ever from a bike incident, but a total of six fractures. I'd managed to survive 50 years of road bike ridding without being hit by a car so I suppose by the law of averages it had to happen sometime!
All the best with you healing and getting back on the bike!
My IFI 5V PSU dropped through the door this morning.
Great service from MCRU.
I’ve not plugged it in yet but here are some thoughts on the fit and finish.
Hey it looks like a ‘’cheap Chinese switcher’’ which is not surprising considering that it was indeed manufactured in errr China :lol: but without knowing what’s inside the box it’s hard to comment on its potential goodness or otherwise.
Not enough published specs? Well most of the relevant info is on IFI’s web site. 5V@2.5A 10uV noise floor which is enough info for most IMHO.:scratch:
I have no business or personal connections to Abingdon or IFI and it’s been at least 10 years since I bumped into Thorsten.
But back then
I met Thorsten quite a few times when he was involved in the London DIY scene and while he may have done inexpensive from time to time he never did crap. He was however most generous with his time and sharing ideas which mostly went over my head but I nodded anyway:eyebrows:.
A nice guy.
Even built his legacy 300B which sounded pretty good.
If Thorsten's worked on this PSU then I’m fairly confident that it has potential but even if it’s not great in my set up
That’s how it goes sometimes.
I have no reason to suspect that he has changed very much over the years.
Let’s see how it sounds.
Had mine in and running for a couple of hours...
Unfortunately I can't draw any real conclusions, as it's only day 2 with my new speakers, so any improvement in sound quality could easily be attributed to them loosening up.
However the Anker has been officially removed, and the little setup sounds superb... :cool:
Not enough published specs? Well most of the relevant info is on IFI’s web site. 5V@2.5A 10uV noise floor which is enough info for most IMHO.:scratch:
Hi Stig the published figures you mention relate to the 'iFi Ultra-Low Noise AC/DC Adaptor', the product I just plugged in is the 'iFi iPower' which has figures of 5V@2.5A 1uV noise floor...:)
which is enough info for most IMHO
TBH, its not, noise figures are quoted as a voltage (RMS) for a given bandwidth. Without the matching bandwidth info those numbers 10uv or 1uv are meaningless. After this weekend, I think I will do some measurements on some power supplies and see if I can get some real numbers. I know I have a dog in this race, but it would be nice to have some repeatable measurements on whats out there.
TBH, its not, noise figures are quoted as a voltage (RMS) for a given bandwidth. Without the matching bandwidth info those numbers 10uv or 1uv are meaningless. After this weekend, I think I will do some measurements on some power supplies and see if I can get some real numbers. I know I have a dog in this race, but it would be nice to have some repeatable measurements on whats out there.
Hi Nick there is a little more info on a label attached to the back of the box,...
Noise*:~1uV
*Average audio band noise floor
Hi Nick there is a little more info on a label attached to the back of the box,...
Noise*:~1uV
*Average audio band noise floor
Ok, so thats 1uV 20hz-20kHz maybe. Seems remarkably low, but of course it depends if its Gaussian (random) or just a couple of harmonics at fixed frequencies.
...and one further bit of info;
Audio Band Noise Floor*
*Noisefloor is the random noise and excl. AC mains related components and switching freq (<30uV).
That is as printed...:scratch:
...and one further bit of info;
Audio Band Noise Floor*
*Noisefloor is the random noise and excl. AC mains related components and switching freq (<30uV).
That is as printed...:scratch:
Ok, so its the noise thats left when you have taken the sources of noise away. Hmm (or rather without the hum).
Hi Stig the published figures you mention relate to the 'iFi Ultra-Low Noise AC/DC Adaptor', the product I just plugged in is the 'iFi iPower' which has figures of 5V@2.5A 1uV noise floor...:)
I think that you may find that they are one and the same thing at least IFI ultra low noise was printed on the box., I think that the PI angle may have been added by MCRU. The USB adaptor came in a separate jiffy but what ever it's a good idea all the same.
And sounding like cash well spent IMHO.
Maybe MCRU could pop by and clear things up.:eyebrows:
Hi Nick
How's it going.?:)
Look forward to your measurements.
I think that you may find that they are one and the same thing at least IFI ultra low noise was printed on the box., I think that the PI angle may have been added by MCRU. The USB adaptor came in a separate jiffy but what ever it's a good idea all the same.
Looks like the 'iPower' is effectively version 2, as it's the only current AC/DC product on their site...I think '10x quieter than before' gives it away ;)
Good marketing skills by MCRU, to spot the pi potential...
Yes I have the ''10x quieter'' bit printed on my box.
MCRU look like they are on the ball selling this as a PI PSU. Looking at their site they also stock other more expensive options but as a less expensive punt the IFI is a shoe in.
So long as it works sound wise :).
Then fair play and good call which allows some of us less well healed punters to try out something beyond the standard PI PSU. Compared to the Linear posted on page one the IFI inspires a little more confidence and TBH if I wanted a linear then I’d build my own to save on cost. I’ve been using DIY USB power injectors for some time now but for me the size thing really does matter which made the IFI unit tempting.
Judging by the size and weight of the IFI unit it’s a switcher but maybe a better one than the standard. Same meat different gravy.:eyebrows:
Which for the extra cost is all that’s required IMHO.
Also on the box is a little explanation of what they are doing at the OP with active noise cancellation.
Whilst measurement alone does not tell the whole story IMHO it may give some indication of its potential.;) or lack of.
Anyone here using one of the above to power their Pi? I was wondering if it was a worthwhile upgrade on the bog std £5 psu.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/iFI-Audio-Power-Supply-Raspberry/dp/B017O38DEA
"Currently unavailable.
We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock."
:(
"Currently unavailable.
We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock."
:(
I sent mine back Thursday so they may have one:)
"Currently unavailable.
We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock."
:(
Or just buy the standard 5V version and add a mini USB adaptor:)
Bourneendboy
03-03-2016, 08:25
My ipower arrived yesterday. Only had time for a brief listen and I'm a bit disappointed to be honest, as yet can't hear any gains.
Get the feeling the extravagant box takes a big chunk of the cost.
The external power supply won't be the main bottleneck, it'll be the internal regulators on the Pi & any add-on boards that dictate the noise floor. Am surprised that such 'large' gains are being heard by plugging in a shared DC line into all the internal regs.
...different story with some products coming onto market with separate power feeds and/or the ability to attached dedicated transformers to the DAC boards etc.
I've known a few instances where dual regulation has been a benefit. I agree that the regulators on the board(s) will be a bottleneck but if they're fed a cleaner supply from a good quality PSU than they're fed by a bog standard noisy one, it does have a knock on affect. That's certainly been IME with analogue equipment anyway.
Oops got my iFi's mixed up.
Mind you the improvement we're getting on the Pi is by using linear PSU's. Not sure if the iFi is the same ?
Bourneendboy
03-03-2016, 18:23
Oops got my iFi's mixed up.
Mind you the improvement we're getting on the Pi is by using linear PSU's. Not sure if the iFi is the same ?
Not sure what you mean Mike?
Product Description
The central characteristic of iFi is in pursuit of the zenith in audio performance: it leaves no stone un-turned. Well, the all new iPOWER is an exemplary example of this. Despite the fact that the iFi Ultra-Low Noise AC/DC adapter was exceptionally quiet and elevated the iUSB and iPhono to punch way beyond their respective categories, the all new iPower is even quieter, up to 10x quieter in fact. All new design 9V DC power supply for all iFI components, will power anything requiring 9V DC supplied with a range of adapters, will also power GUITAR FOOT PEDALS.
My ipower arrived yesterday. Only had time for a brief listen and I'm a bit disappointed to be honest, as yet can't hear any gains.
Get the feeling the extravagant box takes a big chunk of the cost.
If you got it from MCRU/Amazon then you can return it for a refund, I can assure you it is going to make no difference on your Chromecast Audio due to reasons already mentioned.
I thought you had bought the iFi micro USB PSU. So I deleted my post.
For interest here's what it said anyway.
" Features
You've never seen anything like it ... Because there's never been anything like it The most important feature of any USB audio device (USB DAC, USB Amplifier and USB Speaker etc.) is the power supply
Perfectly adequate to power anything from USB memory sticks to tablet computers; it falls far short from being a suitable noise-free power supply for high-quality music reproduction.
To improve all USB audio devices out there, iFi have developed not just a better power supply, but the best power supply for all audio devices With the iUSB, quiet passages are whisper quiet. The climaxes are fiercer, and everything in between is richer, more vibrant and no longer grainy."
I'm confused by the middle paragraph, does it really mean it's not good enough for HiFi or is it just badly written ?
Perfectly adequate to power anything from USB memory sticks to tablet computers; it falls far short from being a suitable noise-free power supply for high-quality music reproduction.
It might help if you hadn't plucked the last sentence out in isolation...;)
The most important feature of any USB audio device (USB DAC, USB Amplifier and USB Speaker etc.) is the power supply. The USB system as well as audio, carries its own power. Perfectly adequate to power anything from USB memory sticks to tablet computers; it falls far short from being a suitable noise-free power supply for high-quality music reproduction.
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iusbpower/
It might help if you hadn't plucked the last sentence out in isolation...;)
The most important feature of any USB audio device (USB DAC, USB Amplifier and USB Speaker etc.) is the power supply. The USB system as well as audio, carries its own power. Perfectly adequate to power anything from USB memory sticks to tablet computers; it falls far short from being a suitable noise-free power supply for high-quality music reproduction.
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iusbpower/
I didn't, I just copied the info posted on the Amazon page in its entirety so it's Amazon you need to blame [emoji14] [emoji3]
See here:
iFi Micro iUSB Power Supply https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00AU07NZA/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_72h2wbH828BM2
That why I put the ? on the end of my post.
I see it now damn smart phone didn't open the details box right up doh!
I didn't, I just copied the info posted on the Amazon page in its entirety so it's Amazon you need to blame [emoji14] [emoji3]
See here:
iFi Micro iUSB Power Supply https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00AU07NZA/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_72h2wbH828BM2
That why I put the ? on the end of my post.
I see it now damn smart phone didn't open the details box right up doh!
Apolgies Sir!
In that context I can see the confusion...:doh:
It's not the best bit of advertising I've ever seen...be careful with the 'auto bullet formatting' Amazon!...:eyebrows:
It might as well read...'The iFi USB Power, Not fit for purpose!'
Apolgies Sir!
In that context I can see the confusion...:doh:
It's not the best bit of advertising I've ever seen...be careful with the 'auto bullet formatting' Amazon!...:eyebrows:
It might as well read...'The iFi USB Power, Not fit for purpose!'
No apology necessary ;)
OK. As I said I would try and do, so some measurements of the noise levels of a few power supplies. I will try and put this into a page some time, but here are the basic results. I used a M-Audio 96/24 sound card as the measurement system, combined with a Pete Millet designed sound card front end. The combination, is probably missing 6-12dB on absolute noise floor to a Audio Precision or similar, but at more than 30dB difference in price. I loaded each supply with a 8 ohm load (as it was on hand), that means they are all supplying 625ma, which is probably representative.
First the basic noise floor of the test system, this is just the load resistor with nothing else connected.
http://www.lurcher.org/nick/psu_measurements/200mv_Scale_Short_Input.jpg
Then to give a scale, the same, but with a 100mv 1kHz signal applied. So 0dB = 100mv RMS. Noise floor is raised a bit by the source noise
http://www.lurcher.org/nick/psu_measurements/1kHz_100mv_RMS.jpg
First supply, a 5v Switcher I found that originally came with a Ikia LED lamp. Lots of 100Hz harmonics from the rectified mains and about 28kHz switcher frequency. You can see the switcher frequency is all over the place as well from the width of the peak.
http://www.lurcher.org/nick/psu_measurements/IKIA%205v%20100mv%20Range.jpg
Next the iPower supply. Much better than the basic supply. They have done a good job. A few mains harmonics and a trace of the switcher frequency. If you look at the area above 10kHz and before the switcher harmonics, the basic noise level is about -100dB down, so with 0dB = 100mv, -100dB = 1uV, so our measurements match what they state on the box. Which is nice :-)
http://www.lurcher.org/nick/psu_measurements/iPower%205v%20100mv%20Range.jpg
Then I tried a Anker battery supply. This is it fully charged. I am running it down at he moment to see if it changes at all. So the basic noise level is much higher than the iPower. Most surprisingly is the absence of any particular spectra. I wonder what goes on higher up the frequency range, but I don’t have an RF spectrum analyser available at the moment. Using the iPower way of measuring noise, it would come out as 10uV
http://www.lurcher.org/nick/psu_measurements/ANKER%205v%20100mv%20Range.jpg
Finally, I tried one of the LDA/MCRU supplies I make and sell, so an obvious bias there, but anyone else can try the same measurements, and if any other supply makers want me to measure them just let me have one and I will add it on. Likewise if anyone has a Chinese supply they want measuring just PM me and I will give the address to send it to get it added.
Anyway, using the iPower method of measurement, I would put this at 250nV
http://www.lurcher.org/nick/psu_measurements/LDA%205v%20100mv%20Range.jpg
Nicely done Nick, and will help those make more informed choices re noisefloor to cost etc. Your one is particularly impressive.
Any thoughts on these Chinese Ebay jobbies
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZEROZONE-30VA-30W-LT1038cp-mini-linear-Power-supply-DC5V-9V-12V-15V-18V-24V-/221873422268?hash=item33a8afbfbc:g:-xIAAOSwqv9V6S75
or
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hifi-linear-DC-5V-output-power-25W-USB-amp-DAC-external-power-supply-/131524729527?hash=item1e9f7c1ab7:g:0DUAAOxylpNTQRO T
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HiFi-PSU-15VA-DC5V-2-0A-high-end-Linear-Power-supply-with-USB-port-for-XMOS-6631-/252067425211?hash=item3ab063abbb:g:iasAAOSwu4BV2pQ 1
Chop suey pooey lol
Ive got this one
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WL-New-Hifi-2-way-linear-power-supply-DC-2-USB-preamp-DAC-external-linear-PSU-/141684499691?hash=item20fd0de4eb
Have one set at 5v and other at 12v for pi and phono amp. Seems fine so far. You need to sourcexa 5.5 2.1mm to micro usb adaptor for the rpi or just make a new fly lead
According to nicks tests the ifi one seems quiet and worth buying. If i didnt have mine i probablycwould
I did try the ifi power with the Digi+ board and didn't hear any difference over the cheapo wall wart, it may give a different result with the dac board.
The first psu I linked to does seem to have a chunky r-core in there.
Any thoughts on these Chinese Ebay jobbies
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZEROZONE-30VA-30W-LT1038cp-mini-linear-Power-supply-DC5V-9V-12V-15V-18V-24V-/221873422268?hash=item33a8afbfbc:g:-xIAAOSwqv9V6S75
or
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hifi-linear-DC-5V-output-power-25W-USB-amp-DAC-external-power-supply-/131524729527?hash=item1e9f7c1ab7:g:0DUAAOxylpNTQRO T
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HiFi-PSU-15VA-DC5V-2-0A-high-end-Linear-Power-supply-with-USB-port-for-XMOS-6631-/252067425211?hash=item3ab063abbb:g:iasAAOSwu4BV2pQ 1
As I say, send me one, and I will measure it.
I need better connectors for mine tbh.. Not sure my eyes and hands will manage the fiddly stuff these days though.. Maybe have to subby it out lol
Hi Nick
Firstly thanks for the thorough job you'd done measuring the supplies.
Just one question.
''Then I tried a Anker battery supply. This is it fully charged. I am running it down at he moment to see if it changes at all. So the basic noise level is much higher than the iPower. Most surprisingly is the absence of any particular spectra. I wonder what goes on higher up the frequency range, but I don’t have an RF spectrum analyser available at the moment. Using the iPower way of measuring noise, it would come out as 10uV''
I also have a 5V Anker battery supply and as I understood it they use a reg to obtain the 5V OP which may have some influence on your result.
To my ears and in my setup.
TBH I've been pretty happy with the Ipower which to my ears brings a little more clarity to the sound with my USB DACs. Not a huge change but for £40 the extra detail is welcome.
The change was more pronounced with My IQ DAC+ on board IMHO/
I'm not so sure that measurements tell the whole story but it's nice to read that the manufacturer’s claims stand up to examination.
BTW
This works just fine with the IFI Ipower
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-5-5x2-1mm-2-1-DC-Female-power-Supply-Adapter-to-Micro-USB-Plug-Male-Cable-/281740825782?hash=item41990fd4b6:g:x4YAAOSwyQtVl72 ~
:)
I don't understand audio, graphs which one comes out best. I'm assuming the Long Dog?
it did yes... think it was 4 times quieter than the ifi although the ifi was still pretty quiet..
Hi Nick
Firstly thanks for the thorough job you'd done measuring the supplies.
Just one question.
''Then I tried a Anker battery supply. This is it fully charged. I am running it down at he moment to see if it changes at all. So the basic noise level is much higher than the iPower. Most surprisingly is the absence of any particular spectra. I wonder what goes on higher up the frequency range, but I don’t have an RF spectrum analyser available at the moment. Using the iPower way of measuring noise, it would come out as 10uV''
I also have a 5V Anker battery supply and as I understood it they use a reg to obtain the 5V OP which may have some influence on your result.
To my ears and in my setup.
TBH I've been pretty happy with the Ipower which to my ears brings a little more clarity to the sound with my USB DACs. Not a huge change but for £40 the extra detail is welcome.
The change was more pronounced with My IQ DAC+ on board IMHO/
I'm not so sure that measurements tell the whole story but it's nice to read that the manufacturer’s claims stand up to examination.
Yep, this started because I was a bit worried that people were assuming that supplies like the Anker would be noise free "because they were a battery", but of course there is no 5v battery. What they are is a set of cells with a buck/boost converter that will regulate the voltage down when its charged, then multiply it up as the charge drops so the cells can be fully discharged and the same voltage generated until its down to 0%. It may be that for 5v, they just use a switching reg to reduce the voltage. Switching regs like SMPS are much more efficient that linear regulators, as none of the power (or almost none) is converted to heat. But the result will not be a quiet as a simple battery cell. And the noise figures from the Anker show the effect of that.
Yep, this started because I was a bit worried that people were assuming that supplies like the Anker would be noise free "because they were a battery", but of course there is no 5v battery. What they are is a set of cells with a buck/boost converter that will regulate the voltage down when its charged, then multiply it up as the charge drops so the cells can be fully discharged and the same voltage generated until its down to 0%. It may be that for 5v, they just use a switching reg to reduce the voltage. Switching regs like SMPS are much more efficient that linear regulators, as none of the power (or almost none) is converted to heat. But the result will not be a quiet as a simple battery cell. And the noise figures from the Anker show the effect of that.
Very interesting and informative Nick, thanks...:cool:
Absolutely fascinating stuff Nick. Thanks for your work on this.
Given the differences I heard between the Anker battery and the iFi supply on my Pi/IQAudio DAC and if I'm interpreting the results correctly, the differences shown between those two aren't as marked as the differences between the iFi and the LDA/MCRU supply, then I should expect an even more significant boost by getting one of those...
Yep, this started because I was a bit worried that people were assuming that supplies like the Anker would be noise free "because they were a battery", but of course there is no 5v battery. What they are is a set of cells with a buck/boost converter that will regulate the voltage down when its charged, then multiply it up as the charge drops so the cells can be fully discharged and the same voltage generated until its down to 0%. It may be that for 5v, they just use a switching reg to reduce the voltage. Switching regs like SMPS are much more efficient that linear regulators, as none of the power (or almost none) is converted to heat. But the result will not be a quiet as a simple battery cell. And the noise figures from the Anker show the effect of that.
Hi Nick
Up until recently I've used the Anker to power a Solid State HD and remember having a similar discussion around how the Battery supply actually worked. As you mentioned it's not quite a standard battery supply and the added bits may influence it's performance a little.
The Long Dog (sight hounds rule OK) does measure superbly and must have taken some time and effort to get it that way.
Good work:)
Rothchild
07-03-2016, 11:11
Nick, just for clarity is this measuring the Power Supply straight in to the soundcard (via the interface/buffer) or is this the noise the other side of a pi?
I'm guessing the former, as you've not mentioned any other part of the chain, but I'm a bit puzzled as to how you got the 1kHz signal in otherwise, if it's the latter which PiDac are you using?
I'd like to have a play at this experiment myself but I'd don't have the buffer. I'm kinda thinking that even without it the pidac is not likely to be able to put out anything that damages my soundcard anyway?
Yes, its the supply direct into the buffer, Pi not involved. I just wanted to look at the actual noise levels of the different supply’s. The 1kHz was injected in from a external source just to show what 0dB on the graphs represented in terms of signal level.
As you say, the Pi DAC output is unlikely to have any danger of damaging the sound card. The buffer also gave me an additional 20dB gain option that I was using in this case.
Simon_LDT
09-03-2016, 19:14
Chop suey pooey lol
Ive got this one
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WL-New-Hifi-2-way-linear-power-supply-DC-2-USB-preamp-DAC-external-linear-PSU-/141684499691?hash=item20fd0de4eb
Have one set at 5v and other at 12v for pi and phono amp. Seems fine so far. You need to sourcexa 5.5 2.1mm to micro usb adaptor for the rpi or just make a new fly lead
According to nicks tests the ifi one seems quiet and worth buying. If i didnt have mine i probablycwould
Would be curious to know how that one scores for noise. Looks ideal as I too could do with a proper linear PSU for my phono stage and would kill 2 birds with one stone.
How's it been for you Grant, any issues at all? Improvement over stock and/or other supplies you've used before?
OK. As I said I would try and do, so some measurements of the noise levels of a few power supplies. I will try and put this into a page some time, but here are the basic results. I used a M-Audio 96/24 sound card as the measurement system, combined with a Pete Millet designed sound card front end. The combination, is probably missing 6-12dB on absolute noise floor to a Audio Precision or similar, but at more than 30dB difference in price. I loaded each supply with a 8 ohm load (as it was on hand), that means they are all supplying 625ma, which is probably representative.
First the basic noise floor of the test system, this is just the load resistor with nothing else connected.
http://www.lurcher.org/nick/psu_measurements/200mv_Scale_Short_Input.jpg
Then to give a scale, the same, but with a 100mv 1kHz signal applied. So 0dB = 100mv RMS. Noise floor is raised a bit by the source noise
http://www.lurcher.org/nick/psu_measurements/1kHz_100mv_RMS.jpg
First supply, a 5v Switcher I found that originally came with a Ikia LED lamp. Lots of 100Hz harmonics from the rectified mains and about 28kHz switcher frequency. You can see the switcher frequency is all over the place as well from the width of the peak.
http://www.lurcher.org/nick/psu_measurements/IKIA%205v%20100mv%20Range.jpg
Next the iPower supply. Much better than the basic supply. They have done a good job. A few mains harmonics and a trace of the switcher frequency. If you look at the area above 10kHz and before the switcher harmonics, the basic noise level is about -100dB down, so with 0dB = 100mv, -100dB = 1uV, so our measurements match what they state on the box. Which is nice :-)
http://www.lurcher.org/nick/psu_measurements/iPower%205v%20100mv%20Range.jpg
Then I tried a Anker battery supply. This is it fully charged. I am running it down at he moment to see if it changes at all. So the basic noise level is much higher than the iPower. Most surprisingly is the absence of any particular spectra. I wonder what goes on higher up the frequency range, but I don’t have an RF spectrum analyser available at the moment. Using the iPower way of measuring noise, it would come out as 10uV
http://www.lurcher.org/nick/psu_measurements/ANKER%205v%20100mv%20Range.jpg
Finally, I tried one of the LDA/MCRU supplies I make and sell, so an obvious bias there, but anyone else can try the same measurements, and if any other supply makers want me to measure them just let me have one and I will add it on. Likewise if anyone has a Chinese supply they want measuring just PM me and I will give the address to send it to get it added.
Anyway, using the iPower method of measurement, I would put this at 250nV
http://www.lurcher.org/nick/psu_measurements/LDA%205v%20100mv%20Range.jpg
Just to add to that list of measurements, I got one of these supply
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131546121616?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
from Ebay. And it measures like this:
http://www.lurcher.org/nick/psu_measurements/Ebay%205v%20100mv%20Range.jpg
I am biased, but I do feel I have to point out that it has a metal case, so should be a class I device, but it seems not to be earthed.
from Ebay. And it measures like this:
So is that good or bad?
So is that good or bad?
Hum and noise wise, its better than the worst and worst than the best. About what I would expect from that amount of capacitor and single off the shelf regulator. Lots of 100Hz and harmonics up to beyond 1kHz. The lack of earth is a concern, probably fixable.
I managed to launch my Raspberry pi3. Yesterday I made it play music for some minutes through the Ubuntu. Before that I had problems with other software. Ubuntu fired up immediately - and now works fine in all respects. The pi3 is hooked up to Stan Beresford's Asynch-1 - that I am extremely satisfied with (in another setup).
However, yesterday I wasn't impressed with the sound and am thinking of a PSU upgrade. Unfortunately all links to iFi here return "currently unavailable".
Has anybody bought and used this: http://www.myhifishop.de/Devices/Low-Noise-Power-Supply-5V-1A-Raspberry-DAC-Mini-USB-Micro-USB::66.html?
Any idea how it performs and how it would fare against the iFi?
Doubt it would even power up the Pi3 as it is only 1 Amp
StanleyB
30-03-2016, 08:44
The pi3 is hooked up to Stan Beresford's Asynch-1 - that I am extremely satisfied with (in another setup).
Since somebody discovered that the Asynch-1 is a good partner with the Pi, they have been selling at a brisk pace. I am now down to just a few, with little chance of getting any more made by the subcontractor. He wants me to make 1000 pieces in one go :eek:. So that will be end if that once the last one is sold by me. A bit of a shame really, given the price versus performance factor.
Still got mine lying about somewhere which was one of the first. Does this mean it might go up in value :eyebrows:
StanleyB
30-03-2016, 09:13
Well worth keeping.
Ok.. I ran mine for a while with my pc system and it was the best it ever sounded. I see youve stopped selling the switchbox i got... I,m using that at moment and its a great bit of kit Stan... Looks super too.
StanleyB
30-03-2016, 09:51
I see youve stopped selling the switchbox i got... I,m using that at moment and its a great bit of kit Stan... Looks super too.
The TC-7240 is out of stock due to a sudden rush of sales in January and February! I suspect that a few people bought or got some more audio gear over Christmas and were in a sudden need of a good switch box. I'll have them back in next month. I have all my cases made by hand, not machines. So it does take a bit longer.
I,m using that at moment and its a great bit of kit Stan... Looks super too.
Another very happy user here too, it allows both my 'Digital' pre-amp (MDAC, SBTouch), and 'Analogue' pre-amp (8000Q, TT, AV), to utilise my 8000Ms and IPL S5TLs...
Ultimately it is another 'switch' in the connection chain, but a very high quality one, and I certainly couldn't identify any deterioration of the SQ with it in place
I believe the 'to be' FDAC (JW's next generation MDAC) will include one or more ADC inputs to permit one to use the FDAC as the single pre-amp, I for one would much rather use Stan's switch than go from Analogue to Digital to Analogue again...in the case of my AV amp it would be Digital to Analogue to Digital to Analogue again!!! eurgh! ;)
StanleyB
30-03-2016, 11:07
I developed an ADC input version of a DAC just for testing. In the end I abandoned the idea. The ADC input is very sensitive to digital signal noise inside the same case. I ran my phono preamp through it, and it was as if the original warm sound had been stripped naked. That double conversion process was not beneficial.
I developed an ADC input version of a DAC just for testing. In the end I abandoned the idea. The ADC input is very sensitive to digital signal noise inside the same case. I ran my phono preamp through it, and it was as if the original warm sound had been stripped naked. That double conversion process was not beneficial.
As someone who's already had his MDAC upgraded very successfully by JW (L2 'Toy' FWIW), I keep a keen eye on the pfm MDAC uber thread. However I've concerns that the new FDAC's design is being compromised in order to accommodate too much functionality IMHO, last I saw CD/DVD drawer was being discussed, in addition to the ADCs...we'll see if a simplified product emerges in the end :eyebrows:
StanleyB
30-03-2016, 11:58
we'll see if a simplified product emerges in the end :eyebrows:
As far as DAC preamps go, I have seen the light ;). Secret notification list already opened.
Update time:
I'd wondered why things had gone downhill a fair bit recently and I'd lost interest in my system a bit. I even ended up taking out the iFi supply and replacing it with the old crappy SMPS I was using before it and found that brought things back a bit. I was beginning to wonder whether the iFi had gone faulty having read my original glowing review back and suddenly realising that things couldn't be right as they were (I'm glad I wrote that review now). I had to trace back to what had changed in recent weeks.
First of all I thought only one change had been made and that was moving from using PiCorePlayer as a Roon endpoint, to using the dedicated Roon endpoint build that Gordon from IQAudio very kindly provides for use with the IQ DAC. I was dubious that could be the cause but I switched back to PiCorePlayer just as a sanity check and sure enough - No difference. It took me another 24 hours or so to remember that the other thing that had changed was moving from a wireless setup with PiCorePlayer to having to use a wired connection as the Roon endpoint for IQAudio does not currently have any configurable options, so for the next test it was back to PiCorePlayer with the wireless dongle back in place - Bingo! iFi back to showing a good level of improvement over the standard SMPS. I guess that means that in order to have a wired network connection working well, I'd need a good power supply on my router as well... Think I'm going to stick with wireless for the time being at least.
Nick
I'm going to buy one of Jan Didden's SilentSwitchers that he reckons performs as well as if not better than the best LPS'. If you are interested I'll bring it over and you can measure it.
Regards
Ian
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