View Full Version : Digital stylus gauge
The Black Adder
14-02-2016, 19:57
Hi.
Can anyone recommend me a cheap digital stylus gauge. The one I have is isn't a good one as it's quite thick. I need something thin so the stylus drops near or around record surface level wise. I have the Ortofon see-saw type but it's hard to get the cart on very well with the cart being so wide. I've been looking through the archives but most of the links are now old/dead.
Thanks
Jo
Aligauld
14-02-2016, 20:04
Hi There
I use one similar to this and it's given me no problems.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Cartridge-Stylus-LED-Tracking-Force-Scale-Gauge-0-01g-Batteries-TE386-/131717986803?hash=item1eab00f9f3:g:NpsAAOSwgyxWWd7 j
This was the first link showing on a search so there might be cheaper versions.
When it sits on the platter its just the right height.
Cheers,
Alistair
Pretty much like mine.may be same. Non magnetic so can use it with mc's. Seems reliable and accurate
The Black Adder
14-02-2016, 20:09
Cool... just the ticket. thanks chaps.
Wakefield Turntables
14-02-2016, 20:35
yep I have the same, reliable.
It's what I use. A couple of points though:
Don't get hung up about the weighing platform being at the same level as that of an LP - the error involved is miniscule: less than the accuracy of the gauge.
Don't confuse resolution with accuracy.
But at £9 it's a "no brainer".
RobbieGong
14-02-2016, 21:00
yep I have the same, reliable.
Avatars doin me in Andrew :eek:
Avatars doin me in Andrew :eek:
+1 Enough to make me want to avoid replying!
The Black Adder
14-02-2016, 21:05
He must have used his selfie stick... arf arf! :)
Flanders
14-02-2016, 21:21
There seem to be 2 versions - one has the buttons below the screen like Alistair linked to, and one has the buttons on the screen.
I have the latter version, which I probably paid too much for:
http://www.decibelhifi.com.au/decibel-electronic-stylus-force-gauge/
Works really well though.
Flanders
14-02-2016, 21:24
Btw, Alistair's version looks to be the same one that Pro-ject sell for 90 quid!
He must have used his selfie stick... arf arf! :)
aye, up his ass:D
Hi Jo,
I don't know so much about recommending a cheap one, but I can recommend a *really* good, and genuinely accurate one, which I'm sad to say (from experience) the cheapies aren't...
This is what I use:
8CqbQDdE2-s
Available from here: http://www.analogueseduction.net/clearaudio-upgrades-parts-accessories/clearaudio-weight-watcher-stylus-pressure-gauge.html
Trust me, there's a BIG difference between the accuracy of the Clearaudio and the others mentioned. I found as much as 0.5g difference with some of them between what was the actual VTF (pressure at the stylus), and what was shown on the gauge!
You know me for trying to find a bargain, but sometimes in hi-fi, you do get what you pay for :)
Marco.
I also have one like that, but for considerably less than Clearaudio ask. Clearaudio also seem to confuse resolution with accuracy, and looks to be no more than the jeweller's scales that are readily available elsewhere.
Are you certain that it's identical to the Clearaudio one though, Barry?
Just because it looks the same, doesn't guarantee that it *is* the same, or just as accurate. I've tried many different digital scales over the years, and can say from experience that they can vary rather wildly, in terms of how accurate they are.
There are also a lot of 'fakes' around, purporting to be something they're not. The Clearaudio isn't the cheapest around (nor in any way the dearest), but it is a very accurate and quality item, as such you can be sure that the readout given is *exactly* what your cartridge is tracking at - and for me, access to such accuracy is invaluable.
I'm afraid that I'll only cut costs when spending more simply doesn't make an sense (when you're just being ripped off), and this isn't one of those occasions :)
Marco.
Trust me, there's a BIG difference between the accuracy of the Clearaudio and the others mentioned. I found as much as 0.5g difference with some of them between what was the actual VTF (pressure at the stylus), and what was shown on the gauge!
That sounds crazy... how did you determine it was off?
I have one of the chinese cheapies that cost a few bucks and it's accurate within 0.01g or so - I have tested it repeatedly with coins. It does have a small glitch, where it doesn't always return to zero when doing repeated weightings - even then it stays accurate, if you account for the 'starting weight' - usually something like 0.05g. The problem as a stylus gauge for that one is it's too high, so the angle for the tonearm isn't the same as playing a record, unless you remove the mat before checking VTF. With a lot of arms that can have very large effect on VTF, but if you make sure the gauge is on same level as a record in play, it does the job just fine. EDIT: of course if you don't use a mat, then you're basically screwed or have to put the gauge beside the platter on some support to make sure it's on the same level as the record surface...
Mine has been accurate when Ive tested it every time. I may be lucky, or yours was maybe a duffer marco... happens with mass produced crap like this, but at a tenner a go I can afford one to go phut occasionally.. its quite possibly the same mech in a different case ... like the look of that one though, very smart indeed
Well all I can say is that the one I have looks the same, and when tested with weights supplied with the Transcriptors stylus balance (and checked by me using a chemical balance against weights which themselves are calibrated against National Physical Laboratory standards) are correct and therefore accurate to 0.01g. That's more than good enough for me.
Anyway the £9 stylus scales cited is also more than sufficient. It comes with a 5g calibration weight - I have weighed this weight on other scales to confirm it is indeed 5g.
Believe me, there are numerous 'audiophile' stylus scales on the market which are essentially re-badged jeweller's scales.
That sounds crazy... how did you determine it was off?
Basically, by listening and measuring... When I had one of the 'Chinese cheapies', they were fine and seemed to work well, but then one day I thought that I'd treat myself to something 'better' (well to see if spending more actually resulted in obtaining something better), and so got the Clearaudio.
I was using a DL-103 at the time, which I was tracking at 2.5g, on the Chinese scales. Then I measured the VTF on the Clearaudio, and it showed as 2.01 (!)... I thought 'What the hell?' Anyway, I decided to reset VTF, using the Clearaudio's readout as a guide, and set it 2.5g, then had a listen...
Jeez - the difference wasn't subtle! :eek:
All of a sudden, the cartridge went from sounding merely good to simply amazing. Turns out that because of the inaccuracy of the Chinese scales I had inadvertently been running it with too low a downforce, due to a false readout on the scales I had been using. Not good!
Therefore, I'd rather spend a bit more, and have the peace of mind of knowing that the stylus gauge I'm using is genuinely accurate, and that I'm getting the best out of my cartridge, as a result of it playing at the optimum tracking weight.
Marco.
Believe me, there are numerous 'audiophile' stylus scales on the market which are essentially re-badged jeweller's scales.
Absolutely, and I've used some of them... However, I can attest to the fact that the Clearaudio isn't one of them, and as such, is money well spent :)
Marco.
walpurgis
14-02-2016, 22:35
A 5 pence coin weighs 3.25g and is ideal for checking digital scales.
That sounds crazy... how did you determine it was off?
I have one of the chinese cheapies that cost a few bucks and it's accurate within 0.01g or so - I have tested it repeatedly with coins. It does have a small glitch, where it doesn't always return to zero when doing repeated weightings - even then it stays accurate, if you account for the 'starting weight' - usually something like 0.05g. The problem as a stylus gauge for that one is it's too high, so the angle for the tonearm isn't the same as playing a record, unless you remove the mat before checking VTF. With a lot of arms that can have very large effect on VTF, but if you make sure the gauge is on same level as a record in play, it does the job just fine. EDIT: of course if you don't use a mat, then you're basically screwed or have to put the gauge beside the platter on some support to make sure it's on the same level as the record surface...
No it doesn't. Do the maths - the error involved is usually less than the accuracy of the scales themselves.
Mine has been accurate when Ive tested it every time. I may be lucky, or yours was maybe a duffer marco... happens with mass produced crap like this...
Precisely, Grant. It could indeed have been a duffer, but it totally put me off the cheapies. The same thing also happened to a mate with his scales. Therefore, I prefer to pay a bit more and hopefully get something that offers more consistent standards of quality.
Marco.
No it doesn't. Do the maths - the error involved is usually less than the accuracy of the scales themselves.
agreed... it was shown to me once that it was miniscule
Precisely, Grant. It could indeed have been a duffer, but it totally put me off the cheapies. The same thing also happened to a mate with his scales. Therefore, I prefer to pay a bit more and hopefully get something that offers more consistent standards of quality.
Marco.
quite right.. its your cash and your choice. youve a high class set of carts and its nice to have reassurance
Flanders
14-02-2016, 23:55
Question: I'm using the 5g calibration weight that was supplied with the gauge. I'm assuming that the weight actually weighs exactly 5g. When measuring the weight multiple times and placing the weight on different parts of the inner pad, my scales are always within .002g of 5g. Does that reliably tell me that my scales are accurate?
Question: I'm using the 5g calibration weight that was supplied with the gauge. I'm assuming that the weight actually weighs exactly 5g. When measuring the weight multiple times and placing the weight on different parts of the inner pad, my scales are always within .002g of 5g. Does that reliably tell me that my scales are accurate?
In a word - yes! What is the quoted accuracy of your scales?
walpurgis
15-02-2016, 00:19
my scales are always within .002g of 5g. Does that reliably tell me that my scales are accurate?
Why worry? The tracking force needs of each cartridge will vary, even of the same model! Then the ambient temperature variations have an effect, as does the age of the cartridge. Nothing is exact. If the cartridge is tracking and sounding OK, I'd say there's little to be concerned with.
No it doesn't. Do the maths - the error involved is usually less than the accuracy of the scales themselves.
You're right... I got a big difference between heights, but it was because of magnetic pull between the MC-cartridge and the Lenco top plate :doh:
Flanders
15-02-2016, 06:58
In a word - yes! What is the quoted accuracy of your scales?
.002 tolerance Barry, so that's good enough for me!
Flanders
15-02-2016, 07:08
Why worry? The tracking force needs of each cartridge will vary, even of the same model! Then the ambient temperature variations have an effect, as does the age of the cartridge. Nothing is exact. If the cartridge is tracking and sounding OK, I'd say there's little to be concerned with.
I hadn't considered those variables Geoff, makes perfect sense though. Good to know the gauge is accurate as a starting point and then use my ears from there. The trouble is, we could apply the same variables to our ears as well! Add a few beers to the mix and I may as well be using the kitchen scales! :cool:
topoxforddoc
15-02-2016, 21:17
You might like to read this article on tracking force, the type of tonearm and the influence of measuring the VTF at a different height to the record.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/in_balance_e.html
daytona600
15-02-2016, 22:05
http://snvinyl.co.uk/WebRoot/Daily/Shops/eshop943300/5218/C1B2/8CAE/5893/9647/0A0C/05E8/F8B7/mqvWjNd41DJqfc8SS-k7Jjw.jpg
as used a jesus to fit his Spu
http://snvinyl.co.uk/WebRoot/Daily/Shops/eshop943300/5218/C1B2/8CAE/5893/9647/0A0C/05E8/F8B7/mqvWjNd41DJqfc8SS-k7Jjw.jpg
as used a jesus to fit his Spu
Got one of those too... its pretty good and I used it faithfully till I got the digital one a couple of years ago; maybe less.
martinjohn308
17-02-2016, 15:40
I think if you go on the www.audioorigami.co.uk web page he has a digital stylus gauge for £20.00 + £3.00 p & p.
Regards,
Martin
You might like to read this article on tracking force, the type of tonearm and the influence of measuring the VTF at a different height to the record.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/in_balance_e.html
The overestimate factor is simply 1/cos(h/L), where h is the height error (or the difference between the height of the scale's measuring platform and the thickness of the LP) and L is the effective arm length.
So for a 9" arm and a set of jeweller's scales with a thickness of say 0.25", the error is 1.000386. Thus a measured 2g VTF will actually be 2.001g. This is likely to be less than the accuracy of the scales themselves (at best to within +/- 0.01g), so is not worth worrying about.
And if you are going to worry about it, what happens if you change the VTA, or for that matter, play heavy (and thus thicker) LPs?
I've just got one of these but I can't get it to work. I cleaned the sticky stuff off the batteries but nada. Fair play to the seller though - gave me a refund with no questions asked.
Hi There
I use one similar to this and it's given me no problems.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Cartridge-Stylus-LED-Tracking-Force-Scale-Gauge-0-01g-Batteries-TE386-/131717986803?hash=item1eab00f9f3:g:NpsAAOSwgyxWWd7 j
This was the first link showing on a search so there might be cheaper versions.
When it sits on the platter its just the right height.
Cheers,
Alistair
Floyddroid
24-02-2016, 22:35
+2:)
yep I have the same, reliable.
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