Jelco SA750D vs Audio Note Arm 1 (V2) for a Lenco GL75??

[SETfan]

My vinyl rig is a Lenco GL75 in a heavy plinth running a Jelco SA750D tonearm (red Mogami cable) into either a Garrott Optim or Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood cartridge.
I have seen an Audio Note Arm 1 (V2) available, and wonder if this would give me a big step forward in sound?
It has been suggested that spending more on the cartridge is generally a better path, and there seem to be lots of favourable opinions out there on the Jelco 750.
Any thoughts on whether I should stick with the Jelco, and instead of worrying about a new tonearm I should aim for a better cartridge for the next upgrade?
Cheers
Mark

[Marco]

Hi Mark,

Welcome to AoS! :)

As an ex-owner of a Jelco SA-750, and it is undoubtedly a superb tonearm for the money, but having also heard the AN, it is the superior sounding arm, in my view, as long as you're not intending on using a low-compliance cartridge with it, such as a Denon DL-103, as in that case, you'd be better off keeping the Jelco.

That aside, buy the AN with confidence, which will be good enough to take any cartridge you care to use. Although I'm unfamiliar with both of the cartridges you mention, I wouldn't necessarily agree with the advice you were given in that respect.

Many years of experience have taught me that the order of hierarchy with a turntable is as follows:

> motor unit (the T/T itself) > tonearm > cartridge.

Therefore, IMO, you'd likely get far better results from upgrading the Jelco to an AN, than retaining the Jelco and upgrading your cartridge. In general, the tonearm has a more profound influence on what you hear from a turntable, than a cartridge (all things being equal).

I've heard plenty of inexpensive cartridges on expensive tonearms sound superb, but rarely the other way round.

Hope this helps! :cool:

Marco.

[petrat]

^^^^^^^^
Exactly correct. I've owned both.

The only note of caution is if you were to use the AN 1 on a suspended deck. The (non-detachable) copper cable is rather stiff.

[SETfan]

Hi Marco,

Thanks very much for your welcome, and informative reply!
Excuse my ignorance, but would you know if the Audio Note Arm 1 (V2) would be described as a medium mass arm (which I believe the Jelco 750D is)?
So then, it sounds like a tonearm upgrade might be my best direction forward! Another tonearm that has caught my eye in the past has been the Roksan Nima unipivot – would you happen to have heard this arm as well, and have an opinion on how it rates against the Audio Note Arm 1?
Of course I appreciate any comparisons are subjective as its not often one gets to A/B tonearms using the same turntable and cartridge…but any opinion is greatly appreciated! :)
I will have to have a closer look at my Lenco GL75 top plate as while the Jelco was a drop in, I dont think the others will be!

Cheers

Mark 

[walpurgis]

Linn arms are a 'drop in fit' on the L75 Mark, if that's any help. They will of course require the three small bolt holes for securing the collar to be drilled though. A simple enough job.

I'm in the (slow) process of sorting out a 'custom' L75 myself.

[Ammonite Audio]

My vinyl rig is a Lenco GL75 in a heavy plinth running a Jelco SA750D tonearm (red Mogami cable) into either a Garrott Optim or Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood cartridge.
I have seen an Audio Note Arm 1 (V2) available, and wonder if this would give me a big step forward in sound?
It has been suggested that spending more on the cartridge is generally a better path, and there seem to be lots of favourable opinions out there on the Jelco 750.
Any thoughts on whether I should stick with the Jelco, and instead of worrying about a new tonearm I should aim for a better cartridge for the next upgrade?
Cheers
Mark

I have the Audio Note Arm3 (v2), which started out as an Arm1 but I had it upgraded largely because of the stiff cable that Peter has already mentioned (the Arm3 comes with nicely flexible AN-Vx cable). That aside, I do sell and use the Jelco arms, and they are excellent for the price, and convenient to use thanks to the removeable headshell. You can improved a Jelco considerably with a headshell like the Oyaide carbon fibre ones; also the Mogami cable can (IME) be improved upon easily, for not much outlay. But, the Audio Note arms are magnificent sounding things, having a vibrant, dynamic and very well ordered character that is perhaps impossible to match without spending a great deal more. Downsides? Adjustment of the Audio Notes arms is fiddly - VTA adjustment requires access to the underside and the bias is totally uncalibrated, but these things are easily outweighed by the arm's sound quality.

One other potential factor to throw into the ring - I have a feeling that the Jelco SA-750E 10" arm represents the "sweetest spot" of their range. I have one on my Kenwood KD-990, fitted with one of my improved collars and an Oyaide HS-TF headshell, and it has rather wormed its way into my musical heart.

[SETfan]

Thanks all for your insightful comments, its very tricky deciding on a path to take without prior auditioning opportunity.

The Audio Note One (V2) arm I can buy is second hand, and I estimate it will likely cost me twice as much as I can sell my Jelco for (should get roughly 220 quid for the Jelco and pay 440 quid for the Audio Note). I appreciate the law of diminishing returns in audio, particularly when the Jelco is already excellent sounding for its price, but are we talking about easily noticeable improvements in upgrading here, or something more subtle? Just trying to work out how high the Jelco already is on the diminishing returns scale! :scratch:

I forgot to mention, I am a bit of a bass head (love this about the Lenco idler) and tight, deep bass notes with impact always bring a smile to my face, as does the "thereness" of a vocalist standing in front of you.

Keep the feedback and thoughts coming, your help is greatly appreciated! :more:

[Jimbo]

Linn arms are a 'drop in fit' on the L75 Mark, if that's any help. They will of course require the three small bolt holes for securing the collar to be drilled though. A simple enough job.

I'm in the (slow) process of sorting out a 'custom' L75 myself.

Which arm are you using on the Lenco 75 build Geoff?

[walpurgis]

Which arm are you using on the Lenco 75 build Geoff?

Hi James. I've made an SME type cut out for arm mounting in the L75 top plate, which means I can drop my Mission 774 or Helius arm straight in. However, I intend to use my Decca FFSS arm first with Mk.III ES cartridges. I'm making a brass SME mount plate to accomodate it.

You can see what I've been up to here if you can bother trawling though it: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?38292-Whatever-Next/page8

I'm at a halt at the moment. Busy decorating. Should be back on course soon.

[DSJR]

I really hope someone comes along with a killer arm-beam for the existing L75 bearing assembly. Old Linn arms should be regarded with caution imo. Linn don't want to know, elastic counterweight inners go gooey and the bearings and pillars get damaged by stupid Linn dealers as I was, being told to tighten things to breaking point, crushing pillars (and ball races inside), especially on many old Akito's and stressing headshell to arm pipe fixings on the LV-X and Basik Plus. Nice when they work (Basik Plus) but please be warned ;)

[DiveDeepDog]

Helius Scorpio (forerunner to the AN v2) fits and works well in the Lenco

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5610/15651790151_d9d5ede8a2_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pR6vUT)10606125_10152826691504772_5905730456997897 07_n (https://flic.kr/p/pR6vUT) by mark leatherland (https://www.flickr.com/photos/49381909@N08/), on Flickr

couple of wraps of PVC tape in the original collar, job done :eek:

[Marco]

Hi Mark,


Excuse my ignorance, but would you know if the Audio Note Arm 1 (V2) would be described as a medium mass arm (which I believe the Jelco 750D is)?


Yes, it's say it probably was, although I suspect that the Jelco has a slightly higher overall effective mass, perhaps by a gram or so, mainly because of its heavier detachable headshell.


So then, it sounds like a tonearm upgrade might be my best direction forward!


Definitely the way to go, I think - that is if you're happy with the cartridges you've got. Always think of your tonearm and cartridge working together as a PAIRING, and so there must exist good synergy between them, sonically, from 'pulling' in the same direction.


Another tonearm that has caught my eye in the past has been the Roksan Nima unipivot – would you happen to have heard this arm as well, and have an opinion on how it rates against the Audio Note Arm 1?


Yes, I've heard the Nima, and it's a very good tonearm, but because it's a unipivot, rather different from the Audio Note. In that respect, much will depend on how it 'likes' your cartridges, and vice versa. Unipivots tend to have a more open and transparent midrange, than gimballed arms, and major on detail and rhythmic integrity.

Gimballed arms tend to sound weightier in the bass, with a more 'propulsive', energetic sound, and so good ones can make unipivots sound a little 'soft' at the frequency extremes.

You can certainly hear those types of traits in the Nima and Audio Note, although both are sweet sounding and unfailingly musical devices. The choice will simply come down to which one you prefer, and also which one works best with your cartridges and system.

If pushed, I'd say that on a solid T/T, such as the Lenco, the Audio Note would be the one. In the final analysis, it would probably just shade it :cool:

Marco.