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View Full Version : A Song Wot I Wrote - 'Ripped Off' or 'Influenced' - Let The Lawyers Decide



The Grand Wazoo
26-10-2009, 00:35
So, should we accept that there's nothing new in music, or should we sue the bejeezus out of anyone who uses the same chord? Is it enough to acknowledge another performer, or should they take a cut from your sales?

Some examples:
Almost everything on the first Led Zeppelin album - not credited to the originals. The Willie Dixon songbook with the guitars turned up.

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The Led Zeppelin examples go on, & on, & on..............not just the first album & not just the old blues guys - Moby Grape (Since I've Been Loving You), Spirit (Stairway to Heaven)................

Little Walter - My Babe. Written by Willie Dixon in 1955 but oh so similar to 'This Train' by Sister Rosetta Tharpe (a hit in 1939) who based her record on a traditional gospel song 'This Train (Is Bound For Glory)'

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Then there's The Verve & The Rolling Stones, The Rolling Stones & Chuck Berry......................

DanJennings
26-10-2009, 06:06
Hmmm, that riff seems familiar
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John
26-10-2009, 07:01
Its an interesting point Chris and of course you have the other side of the argument when someone like BB King thanks the British Blues invasion
I think a band like Led Zep owes a lot to the great Blues artist and of course the Jeff Beck group.

Macca
26-10-2009, 07:45
It's a sensitive subject with musicians.

I was arguing this very point with a friend a few years back when Metallica were suing (the old) Napster. I was arguing that they were just greedy millionaires and he (being a musician) reckoned that they had every right to protect their 'original product' and continue to profit from it. His argument fell down when I pointed out to him that his band, who regularly performed live cover versions, did not pay the original artists a penny...

I don't like the whole idea of music being viewed as a 'product' - remember 'Home Taping is Killing Music' - that always used to make me laugh - their tag line was that it 'jeopordised future music production' - as though to say 'well, just you keep on taping your mate's records and what'll happen? - No more music at all! Is that what you want?' - Tossers.

Will people will stop making music just because there is no money in it any more? Of course not. If the whole world stopped wearing denim jeans then production of jeans would cease - but music is not a product like denim jeans; people have always made music and always will. The only threat is to those without the talent or ability (or the love of it either in some cases) who jump on the bandwagon as 20 per cent men -

'Everybody else is just green
Have you seen the charts?
It can be made into a monster if we all pull together as a team'

Have a Cigar - Pink Floyd



Regards

Martin

John
26-10-2009, 08:15
I think the whole ripping subject is a sensitive issue I would take a middle ground view myself
I remember Lars back in 1980 following Diamond Head around he was a quite into trading tapes; but for me there is a difference between trading live bootleg tapes/ covering a song live and copying a whole CD for free and do worry about where the future is heading The internet has changed everything and the music industry still has not caught up with it

Macca
26-10-2009, 08:41
The internet has changed everything and the music industry still has not caught up with it

I supect that the internet will eventually be the death of the music 'industry' in its traditional form and I look forward to it happening.

Agree that covering a song or making a bootleg is not in the same ballpark as copying a whole album, that's a fair point. I used to have about 100 albums on tape (all recorded from vinyl records owned by others). Some years back I replaced the lot with the CD and (in the odd case) the LP versions - so they got the money out of me in the end!

In any case - whose to say that Willie Dixon et al didn't rip their stuff off from someone before them that no-one ever heard of because they lived in a shack in the delta and it was 1903 (or thereabouts) - I suspect they did!

And hey! - Zep did a lot more than just 'turn the guitars up' :)

Regards

Martin

The Grand Wazoo
26-10-2009, 08:59
Martin,


In any case - whose to say that Willie Dixon et al didn't rip their stuff off from someone before them that no-one ever heard of because they lived in a shack in the delta and it was 1903 (or thereabouts) - I suspect they did!


That's my point exactly - look at the last two You Tube clips on my original post. In 1955, Willie Dixon 'borrowed' 'My Babe' from Sister Rosetta & she 'borrowed' it from an old church song.
Page & Plant didn't give due credit to their influences/sources - they put their names to the songs & took the cash. Many of the old blues guys (the really old ones) didn't know a thing about publishing, so the label owners took the rights.

Was it right that the Stones lawyers won their clients 100% of the songwriting for The Verve's 'Bittersweet Symphony' because there was an uncredited use of material in the recording? Surely The Verve had something to do with the success of the single?

Cheers

REM
26-10-2009, 14:03
Was it right that the Stones lawyers won their clients 100% of the songwriting for The Verve's 'Bittersweet Symphony' because there was an uncredited use of material in the recording? Surely The Verve had something to do with the success of the single?

Cheers

Chris, have you heard the 'uncredited material' in question? The Verve did nothing more than add a beat track and vocal, no originality or talent involved, how on earth they thought they could get away with it is beyond me.

WATCH THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVuh1Ymve2I)

Cheers

Barry
26-10-2009, 14:16
We tend to forget how many popular blues numbers are due to Willie Dixon. Whether he based these on earlier work is quite possible and gives blues aficionardos and writers much to talk about.

On the question of attribution, I should like to point out that Cream were quite punctillious in making sure that the authors of the songs they covered, received the royalties due to them: Willie Dixon, Skip James and Muddy Waters.

Regards

The Grand Wazoo
26-10-2009, 16:37
Chris, have you heard the 'uncredited material' in question? The Verve did nothing more than add a beat track and vocal, no originality or talent involved, how on earth they thought they could get away with it is beyond me.

WATCH THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVuh1Ymve2I)

Cheers

Ralph,
I'm just looking for opinions rather than stating mine, but I see from your avatar that when it comes to devil's advocacy, your horns are much more convincing than mine!